Some Post OU Musings
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It speaks volumes when during most of this game our best scoring option was Mitch in the block.
I have to hand it to Self… how does he get these guys to focus well enough to run the play to CB at the end? Except for a small stretch when we decided to play ball in this game, the rest was “deer in the headlights” nights for the entire team, except maybe JWil.
I don’t know how this team can stop having non-show-up nights like this in March. Hope it isn’t one of those years we check out against a Bucknell.
Och - wake up, man! Your draft stock is slipping!
Remy - just trying a little too hard to make up for lost games. Showed some spark. He’ll be back contributing before we know it!
At least we won…
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@drgnslayr you don’t think it was his wrist?
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I saw his night off come up before the wrist wreck. When Big Mac was on the floor with a loose ball and Och just stood there, not trying to go near him so he could feed the ball off the floor.
Then there was the other loose ball when 3 Jayhawks surrounded the OU player who was on the floor and no one went after him down on the ball. He was able to call timeout. You can bet Self is going to use that tape and chew some ass. He should.
We only shot 6 FTs in this game, 2 came as an intentional foul on CB in the closing seconds. That says everything. We didn’t want to play with any level of physicality in this game.
Our guys should be ashamed of this game. Period.
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@drgnslayr said in Some Post OU Musings:
I saw his night off come up before the wrist wreck. When Big Mac was on the floor with a loose ball and Och just stood there, not trying to go near him so he could feed the ball off the floor.
Then there was the other loose ball when 3 Jayhawks surrounded the OU player who was on the floor and no one went after him down on the ball. He was able to call timeout. You can bet Self is going to use that tape and chew some ass. He should.
We only shot 6 FTs in this game, 2 came as an intentional foul on CB in the closing seconds. That says everything. We didn’t want to play with any level of physicality in this game.
Our guys should be ashamed of this game. Period.
The word is out. If you want to slow down the high powered KU run and gun offense just bully them. They are very susceptible to being pushed around. That to me is the next corner this team has to turn. I’d hoped they’d done it vs wvu but that was at home. I think they have it in them. But it starts with Och. He’s the leader. Senior. Possible all American. He’s the one. In the end he closed it out making a bunch of big plays down the stretch. I don’t think he will have another stretch like the start of this game.
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Man, I tell ya, these games are getting harder and harder to watch! I don’t remember it always being this way. Brutal. Nobody seemed very good tonight. But another road win is fantastic!
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Christian Braun hit a game winning shot. The “invisible man in conference” stepped up. That’s front page news for me. My memory banks are telling me that this is his first game winner ever, although I could be wrong. That’s the big news- the beta is becoming an alpha…hubba, hubba.
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Winning masks a lot of issues that popped up last night. @drgnslayr is right, they were so sped up for almost the entire game. And yet the last 4-5 minutes they finally found a way to scrap a win. Och scores 10 points and CB makes that 3 with 10 seconds left. Eerily similar to the Iowa St game last week where we just made more plays then the other team down the stretch. I’m encouraged that we’ve found ways to win when we play absolutely dreadful. That’s a staple of Self teams over the years especially on the road, getting a W no matter how bad it looks. I’m also encouraged because this team wasn’t challenged that much in non-con play and I think these wins build the team up more then 30 pt blowouts. It gives you some confidence this team can make winning plays in the clutch as Harris/Braun have now done in consecutive weeks. Agbaji has made the winning pass in both of those wins too so it hasn’t just been hero ball that’s getting it done.
Self deserves some blame here for how the game kind of flowed in the middle. He had some absolute clown lineups out there with zero scoring threats. We were so lucky Mitch made some clutch baskets at times to break momentum or keep them in it.
I’m not surprised this was a close game, Vegas had this at 3.5 so it was exactly how they saw it. We had our A++ 2nd half on Saturday and we came back down to earth playing a new OU coach/team for the most part on their home court. I do expect we’ll see better Saturday tbh.
What a clown show those refs were last night. Just when I thought we had seen the worst officiated game of the season in Texas Tech we now have the OU game saying “hold my beer”. It’s just getting to the point where I have zero confidence in general in Big-12 officials. OU had 2 team fouls at the under 8 timeout in the 2nd half last night and I can’t even start to unwind how many bad calls were made in this game overall. OU had 3 extra helping hands and still lost.
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@BeddieKU23 I agree that there were some really bad calls - actually, both ways (we were lucky with the missed TO by Harris) - BUT… The fact is that we do less to generate the kind of contact that gets calls than our opponents. For the season, we rank 160th nationally in FTA, and that is coming down by the game. We are last in the B12 in FTA in conference play - just 12.6 attempts per game. Our conference opponents are averaging 6 more FTA per game. We have had more FTA in just 1 of 5 conference games. With the players we have and style of play, we should be able to get to the line repeatedly and get other teams in foul trouble. Alas, our guys seem to consistently fade away around the rim when driving, rather than initiating or inviting contact.
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I always want us to win conference. These close games count as a “W” just like the blowouts. So hooray for that!
But this soft play will doom us in March. It spells early exit to a team that is ready to bleed on the court.
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@drgnslayr so what do you think the answer is, if any? Serious question.
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I really thought it just looked like an off-night, on the road, after a long weekend with students back on campus, against a pretty well-coached basketball team.
And I think that the B12 is just playing ugly basketball this year. That is who is coaching in the conference right now. The strategy seems to be “make it as ugly as possible” almost as if it were a gorilla warfare strategy against a superior opponent. KSU will be the exact same on Saturday. They are a top 25 defense (OU was 26) and that is just what it is.
Just look at the kenpom rankings for defense in this conference. It is insane.
- TTU #2
- ISU #4
- OSU #7
- Baylor #11
- UT #18
- WVU #21
- KSU #23
- OU #26
- TCU #29
- KU #33
KU has the worst rated defense in the conference at #33. These are just friggin rock fights, and the will be all season. This really is a year where anyone can beat anyone in the B12. Who would think that TTU could beat both Baylor in Waco and KU in Lubbock in 2 of their first 6 games, but still be 4-2 and tied for 2nd place in the conference?
While I realize basketball is a game of runs, if we would just quit having 8 minute stretches where we piss away double digit leads I’m pretty sure we are all singing a different tune about how tough or soft or wired this team is. And I still think by the end of the year those go away and this team beats the crap out of some really good basketball teams.
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@Kcmatt7 Substitutions seem to trigger slumps for us. I wish he had spread the time around more in non conference games, so the subs wouldn’t look so shell shocked when they finally get time. No way JCL should’ve sat the second half, no matter how bad he looked first half. We need him to be that spark off the bench that can be a source of instant offense.
Another thing that causes collapses is our mental approach. We seem to let up once we get up in a game. Mentally soft. We need a big old boot that stomps teams in the throat, and demoralizes them. If we’re up 10, that’s not good enough…let’s make it 20. And for gosh sakes, quit being so damn polite. Now, I’m not calling for a chair swinging Silvio, but I’d sure like to see some Mason, Graham, Josh Jackson type mentality. Some Dotson tough ( look at the way he destroyed the cream puff named Quinten). Some Doke tough. Come on guys, let those balls drop!
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Och had a bad game, bothered by his wrist most likely, and was protecting himself for a long time in that game. But he had 10 in the final five minutes, plus the assist that helped seal the deal. That’s what All-Americans do.
Braun stepped up, too. He made plays to help steady the ship, and of course hit the big one at the end.
Every conference game is going to be difficult, particularly if Remy Martin doesn’t give KU an additional scoring threat. When one of KU’s scorers goes to the bench right now, they are severely limited offensively, and with the defense in the league as strong as @Kcmatt7 lays out in his comment, lacking options will lead to a lot of slumps.
There are really only four guys on this team that can get their own shot - Agbaji, Braun, Wilson and Martin. With Martin out, we’re down to three. If any of those three aren’t playing well, down to two. I thought Yesufu could be that type of player off the bench, but he is not in the rotation at this point (2 minutes last night, has only played double figure minutes in blowouts).
This team seemed like it would be deep, but its really just Agbaji, Braun, Wilson, Martin (when healthy), Harris, McCormack, Lightfoot, and either Pettiford or JCL. Self has tightened the rotation to just 8 already, which is where he generally settles. Once Martin is able to go, my guess is Pettiford’s minutes more or less disappear and JCL gets a handful of minutes to show he’s going to hit threes (or not).
Self likes the idea of depth, but he prefers to coach with a pretty strict rotation, so having 10 or 11 guys makes no difference because only 8 are going to get minutes unless the guys in front of them are screwing up.
Bottom line, be prepared for tough games played in the 60s for the next six weeks because that’s how things are going to go. Teams will pack it in and defend rather than getting out to run.
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@Jethro said in Some Post OU Musings:
@Kcmatt7 Substitutions seem to trigger slumps for us. I wish he had spread the time around more in non conference games, so the subs wouldn’t look so shell shocked when they finally get time. No way JCL should’ve sat the second half, no matter how bad he looked first half. We need him to be that spark off the bench that can be a source of instant offense.
Another thing that causes collapses is our mental approach. We seem to let up once we get up in a game. Mentally soft. We need a big old boot that stomps teams in the throat, and demoralizes them. If we’re up 10, that’s not good enough…let’s make it 20. And for gosh sakes, quit being so damn polite. Now, I’m not calling for a chair swinging Silvio, but I’d sure like to see some Mason, Graham, Josh Jackson type mentality. Some Dotson tough ( look at the way he destroyed the cream puff named Quinten). Some Doke tough. Come on guys, let those balls drop!
I dunno. JCL seems like a hot and cold sub guy to me. if he’s off, sit his ass on the bench. If he at least hits the rim on his first shot, let him play. he was clearly off last night.
So, you have to have subs. That’s the bottom line. Guys get tired, guys need motivation to remain motivated, some guys are having bad days, etc. Agreed Self’s done a weird job with subs this season.
To me we have two guards that need to sub in: Remy and the second Self needs to pick one of these two and stick with it: Bobby P. or Yesufu. Give one of em time to get better on the floor.
We have 1.5 bigs that need to sub in: Mitch and some KJ to keep him happy, fly around the court. Mitch gets most of the minues.
And JCL as a shooter.
Yup, this let up after we get leads is disappointing. I’m guessing Remy has that killer instinct, somewhere hidden deep in the bowels of Self’s brain. Although, Remy did take some shots yesterday. Maybe it is on him, and not Self.
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Where is @approxinfinity and @wrwlumpy? Where is at @jayballer67?
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@jayballer67 I like to give you crap, but like you. Don’t wuss out on me.
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I’m lurking. Have had stuff that has been occupying my attention the last few days.
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@approxinfinity I hope all good stuff.
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@approxinfinity oh, I’m in the doghouse?
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@Marco @jayballer67 is most recently over in the Embiid thread (40 mins ago). Doubt he would wimp out!
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Some good some bad. Sorry I missed the WV game. Watched it later. That second half was brilliant.
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I had my come to Jesus moment in 3rd grade and it’s guided me ever since!
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@Kcmatt7 There’s something wrong with Kenpom when they rate 5 teams ahead of Wisconsin that Wisconsin has beat! I don’t study those things too much but it’s pretty sketchy to see all those numbers and click on the far left column for rank and see them 25.
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@approxinfinity hope all is well.
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@wissox said in Some Post OU Musings:
@Kcmatt7 There’s something wrong with Kenpom when they rate 5 teams ahead of Wisconsin that Wisconsin has beat! I don’t study those things too much but it’s pretty sketchy to see all those numbers and click on the far left column for rank and see them 25.
At last check I think the Badgers were #8 nationally.
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@Marco on Ken Pom they’re not, says 25.
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@Marco said in Some Post OU Musings:
@drgnslayr so what do you think the answer is, if any? Serious question.
I don’t know. I’ve always mentioned “chip”… but I don’t know today and the youth and what it takes. I believe Bill wants to win and his record shows he’s done a pretty good job of that at Kansas. I know he sees the softness and is not happy about it. In my day we were screamed at, humiliated, ran laps, even cleaned toilets. I don’t think that works today, and kids will leave after the year and go somewhere else.
This is a very talented team but may be our softest team in the Bill Self era. I feel like we are fortunate to have as many wins as we have. We have been very fortunate though I think with our current softness we can’t expect to keep piling up so many wins.
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Big 12 now has 8 teams in the latest bracketology, BIG has 7.
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At least in these too-close for comfort games lately Agbaji has shown he wants the ball in his hands in crunch time. I rewatched the last 5 minutes and it was like a switch went off in his head and he became an Assassin. They don’t beat OU without him getting back into the groove.
I agree this is a soft team but we can only hope games like that and others we’ll have coming up will do all the toughening for the tournament. At least I’m going to believe that’s possible until its not!
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FYI, Gameday in AFH the day of the Oklahoma game.
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Kentucky game! Will be a fun atmosphere
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@BeddieKU23 Oh yes, in my mind I knew it was Kentucky but my computer wanted it to be typed Oklahoma.
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@drgnslayr said in Some Post OU Musings:
@Marco said in Some Post OU Musings:
@drgnslayr so what do you think the answer is, if any? Serious question.I don’t know. I’ve always mentioned “chip”… but I don’t know today and the youth and what it takes. I believe Bill wants to win and his record shows he’s done a pretty good job of that at Kansas. I know he sees the softness and is not happy about it. In my day we were screamed at, humiliated, ran laps, even cleaned toilets. I don’t think that works today, and kids will leave after the year and go somewhere else.
This is a very talented team but may be our softest team in the Bill Self era. I feel like we are fortunate to have as many wins as we have. We have been very fortunate though I think with our current softness we can’t expect to keep piling up so many wins.
I’m encouraged by Wilson’s play of late. He’s a dog, when he wants to be.
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I call Wilson our “junkyard dog.” He is going to save us many times this year. Rebounding is about scrapping for the ball, and Jalen goes into battle.
If I made a toughness list… I’d have Jalen and CB at the top. I thought Dajuan would be there, too, but he’s been backing off a bit lately.
Och is such a stud. I wish we used him like a heavy volume scorer. Give him clear outs… plays… screens… Run our offense through him most plays instead of the low post. Then he either takes the shot or feeds the assist. Corrupt other teams’ defenses by making them focus on Och. He gets decent #s now because teams don’t overplay him. We should want the overplay because then it opens up scoring for CB, Jalen, Remy and Big Mac.
This is one area new to Self. I don’t think he has ever built offense around a heavy volume scorer. He is so focused on hi/lo and team offense spread around.
Maybe I overvalue Och’s skills. I sometimes question his handles. He does have a step back move for shooting space… but not so much a shake-n-bake or killer crossover or swivel. I have to admit, I’m kind of late to the Och NBA party. I always thought he might go… but now I see some of the potential others see. If he stays healthy I think he will have an illustrious NBA career. All what I mentioned above will be developed over the next couple of years. His shot is already a work of art.
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@wissox You mean …Kendiana?
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@Jethro Well as an Indiana resident, I don’t want in any way shape or form want to be linked to Kentucky!
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@wissox LOL. The 'Tucky fan base has a deep paranoia about turning into Indiana U on the basketball court, so I try to throw that out as much as possible on another KU site. Hence…Kendiana…
