Make Love, Not War!
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Hawk8086 said:
@mayjay Interesting to hear. I always thought Frank was over the top. I’m sure he is a good person and has his player’s best interests in mind, but he goes too far with the outbursts…IMO.
still is going nuts. He was losing it during the Kentucky win
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Frank Martin in games is wild. Everything else seems like he’s a great person. His coaching tutorials really show he knows the game. Many of his interviews are good. He always did a good interview with the KC Radio guys.
I really like him and Huggins.
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I sure am tired of reading and hearing about Silvio being the culprit. Yes he was wrong for taunting after his devastating block. But please remember how this started. Gordon is the one and only reason we are talking about a fight and suspensions. Without his stupid decision the players are lining up and shaking hands. Lets stop listening to Puke head Vitale and other talking heads and shine the light on the very beginning of this incident. GORDON.
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@Big-Clyde52 respectfully, I don’t expect or demand accountability from K State or ESPN. But I don’t root for them. I expect Kansas players to hold themselves to a high standard. I’m not at the point where I feel Silvio has to be kicked off the team. I just think he acted like an a-hole. I also think that @HighEliteMajor might be right that a fresh start elsewhere could be good for everyone.
It would be tremendous if Silvio stays focused and comes back determined. But that’s a hard ideal to achieve. I just don’t know if all the negative baggage can be shed.
His role was diminished to spot minutes in the rotation and I think that as others have pointed out, that was the powder keg that likely ignited in that end game brawl.
Accountability matters. The letter said the right things. Only time will tell if it was sincere, and if he truly wants to overcome the obstacles and bad mojo over the long haul without a fresh start. I would not blame him if that isn’t possible at Kansas, even if he has the best intentions to work through this.
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Big Clyde52 said:
I sure am tired of reading and hearing about Silvio being the culprit. Yes he was wrong for taunting after his devastating block. But please remember how this started. Gordon is the one and only reason we are talking about a fight and suspensions. Without his stupid decision the players are lining up and shaking hands. Lets stop listening to Puke head Vitale and other talking heads and shine the light on the very beginning of this incident. GORDON.
I wasn’t really sure. The Angle where it said - - A better Angle , what I thought I saw was Sloan was the 1st to push Silvio back and knock him down and then fists were flying and love started throwing fist - could be wrong
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@Big-Clyde52 “Without [Gordon’s] stupid decision the players are lining up and shaking hands.”
Just one thing: When any athlete is standing over an opponent on the ground after a violent blocked shot and taunting him, exactly how likely is it that something physical will not happen?
Silvio made it almost inevitable. So how does that segue to shaking hands?
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Don’t steal the ball, no swatting the ball? In other words, doNt be a DIcK!
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Where was Jeff long?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Don’t really even understand your last two comments. Where was Jeff Long supposed to be? He’s the AD?
It is just complete baloney to somehow attempt to pin this on the KSU kid that stole the ball. It’s the ultimate passing the buck. I’ve seen the comments elsewhere from KU fans and it’s just embarrassing. Sorry, Silvio stood over the guy, taunted him. Undeniable. That’s line that got crossed. And so you know, part of that taunting is basically hanging your junk (guy’s junk) over the top of the opponent – more lovely “cultural” cancer there. But since you like making d*** references, thought we could give it more contextual application here. Soren Petro on 810 addressed that a while back in the football arena with how players much of the time.
But sure, let’s call the KSU player a d***. How hard is it to accept that Silvio was just dead wrong and move on?
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Silvio’s taunt precipitated the fight but KSU started the fight. If they don’t rush the court and start the fight, Silvio is T’d up and game ends in a basketball manner. End of story.
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@HighEliteMajor yes, Silvio was wrong, never said he wasn’t! He should’ve got a T.
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@Crimsonorblue22 In another thread you posted, “Big Dave standing up for his brother. Same for Marcus.” Right. Exactly right. That’s exactly what the KSU players were doing when Silvio escalated and stood over him. You would expect that. You can say that the KSU guys were “standing up for their brother” too. It works both ways. The KSU guys came and got in Silvio’s face to stand up for their brother.
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@HighEliteMajor they started the fight
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Happy Friday everyone! Can’t wait for the game tomorrow!
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Cliff notes as I see it - KSU instigated with the steal. DeSousa elevated it with the taunting. KSU started the fight when several of them shoved DeSousa down. Bill effectively ended the fight when he grabbed McCormack and DeSousa. Suspensions have been handed out. End of story? Or to be continued in Manhattan?
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@mayjay Like I have said before, the blocked shot, the taunting, the players coming off the bench, Silvio raising a chair, the brawl in the stands, the suspensions, etc., etc., and on and on and on, does not happen, IF the bush league Gordon punk does not try to make a selfish grandstand play, that means nothing as far as the outcome is concerned, and lets the clock run out like all the rest of the players were doing. I can not understand why everyone is focused on Silvio this and Silvio that. The ENTIRE incident goes back to actions with 4 seconds left on the clock. I wish we all could concentrate on the CAUSE OF EVERYTHING that transpired after those 4 seconds, instead of picking out a person or incident during the brawl. It is as plain as the nose on our faces.
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@Crimsonorblue22 EXACTLY!!!
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@Bwag EXACTLY!!!
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@dylans The key statement here is: KSU (GORDON) instigated with the steal. End of story!!!
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@Big-Clyde52 I agree Gordon started it, but it takes two to tango. Plenty of fault all around.
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What’s the punishment for Gordon breaking an “unwritten rule” in that situation. Unfortunately the only punishment that could be enforced would be Bruce Weber internally dealing with it, ex: “Bruce Weber announces Gordon will miss Saturday’s game due to violation of team rules” (or something along the lines of that). He has the power to deter that behavior from happening again. I think we all know Bruce isn’t going to sit him regardless of whether his action was the one that set everything in motion.
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@BeddieKU23 The only punishment should be left up to the coach. When BGreene pulled his stupid dunk at the end of a game that was already decided, Self reprimanded him pretty good. And I would not have been mad if Self would have given him a one game suspension. Maybe that would be enough to put a stop to these end of game stunts that have zero outcome to the game that is already decided. Other than that, I have no answers.
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When I was a kid, I absolutely LOVED All-Star Wrestling. Bill Kersten was the mousy announcer that everybody hated/loved. We had Bulldog Bob Brown, Rufus R Jones, Surfer Jesse Ventura (before he was Governor of Minnesota), Dr Ramey and the Interns, Handsome Harley Race, Danny Little Bear, Omar Atlas, Lord Alfred Hayes and so many others. I would stay up way past my bedtime, with the volume turned down low and I reveled in their antics. I remember Jesse Ventura emphatically telling Kersten one tme “I’ll use chains, chairs, baseball bats - whatever it takes baby!!”
It’s a whole lot less entertaining in real life.
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@HighEliteMajor There is a difference between “standing up for a brother” who is being taunted 1 on 1 and “standing up for a brother” who is being physically assaulted 10 to 1. There is also a big difference between taunting and fighting. As several people have pointed out, taunting happens all the time without instigating brawls. Taunting is common, brawls are not. We are in complete agreement that Silvio taunted the K-State player and that was wrong. But pushing and punching a person is an order of magnitude worse offense.
I would then also argue that bringing the stool into it was again an order of magnitude worse than just pushing and punching as it is essentially a weapon. Because of this I think the suspensions are pretty much fair though could be persuaded that the instigator from K-State should have received equal time to Silvio.
The biggest issue I have at this point is the way the situation has been handled by the two programs. Self immediately took responsibility saying “we were in the wrong.” Notice it wasn’t my guys were wrong but “we.” Long put out a statement right after the game apologizing for clearly unacceptable behavior. Self preemptively suspended Silvio indefinitely and still hasn’t confirmed (as far as I know) if there will be anything beyond the 12 games. Silvio put out a statement (yes it was coached) expressing his regret and apologies. From Bruce post game we heard stuff like, yeah I guess maybe it could have been my fault, I called em off but they didn’t do it, I didn’t really see anything so…" We have a statement from the AD admonishing the behavior but showing no contrition and taking no responsibility. “We will live with the consequences” is not a message I can get behind.
Maybe from a PR perspective they had the better strategy because KU is certainly getting all the negative press but that doesn’t make it right.
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Taunting literally happens in every single football game played. It also happens every night in the NBA and quite often on CBB. So if you don’t like taunting I suggest you stop watching sports.
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@Woodrow Quit taunting us…
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Self just said Jeremy Case broke his arm when the KSU player threw him to the ground Tuesday night.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Crimsonorblue22 Don’t really even understand your last two comments. Where was Jeff Long supposed to be? He’s the AD?
It is just complete baloney to somehow attempt to pin this on the KSU kid that stole the ball. It’s the ultimate passing the buck. I’ve seen the comments elsewhere from KU fans and it’s just embarrassing. Sorry, Silvio stood over the guy, taunted him. Undeniable. That’s line that got crossed. And so you know, part of that taunting is basically hanging your junk (guy’s junk) over the top of the opponent – more lovely “cultural” cancer there. But since you like making d*** references, thought we could give it more contextual application here. Soren Petro on 810 addressed that a while back in the football arena with how players much of the time.
But sure, let’s call the KSU player a d***. How hard is it to accept that Silvio was just dead wrong and move on?
agree with the Lon Statement, that kinda had me scratching my head myself. Like exactly what was Jeff Long suppose to do during this?
As far as the other about Silvio taunting - - ya your right he did, no place for that in Basketball , however like they were Saying on /Golic and Wingo, Golic says I guess they were talking some and some like sticking up for Silvio - - TO A POINT.- well they were getting bashed pretty hard on their twitter , and Golic says that’s fine you want to bash us on twitter BUT
they said there is no way in reality that actually Gordon is the one that struck the match that light this fire. - - Gordon thought he would be smart , steal the ball and pad his stats. Golic said GORDON broke an unwritten law kind of like in professional football they said. example , - your team is up 21 points , less then two minutes to go ,your team goes into victory formation instead of trying to score again and then you have this idiot on the other team still taking shots trying to tackle the winning team at the knees. - -you just don’t DO THAT.
Especially AFTER your own Coach has told you to back off and let the clock run out. - -Like Geno the U CONN womens Basketball Coach said example his team getting beat by Baylor by 16 with under a minute left to go in the game and yet his ladies continued to foul. - He asked them why the hell you still fouling when we are 16 down , there is no such thing as a 16 point play.
Same applies here . we up 20-22 here and he still feels the need to steal the ball – WTF Ku & Silvio was doing what all teams do instead of embarrassing you any further , stand out at half court and just dribble the clock out and Gordon still feels the need. -So hell ya Silvio feels like the kid trying to show him up and he pinballs the ball off the back boar d - - now for sure after that he should of turn around and pointed up to the scoreboard and walked off - -no way in hell should he of stood over the top and taunted. - -bottom line if Gordon wouldn’t of felt that need to be stupid, the clock would of run out - Game over and Silvio wouldn’t of run him down and stood over the top of him. - BALL GAME KU and Silvio go their way K-State goes thiers , end of story just ugly by everyone
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I thought Silvio’s taunt was extreme because he just continued to stand there. Because of that, it was already running through my head that he had bad intent that could become violent. It is one thing to stand there for a second and make your point… it is another thing to just stay standing there. It was very “thuggish.”
I think it is our current culture… this desire to be a thug.
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@drgnslayr you mean “this desire to be a slug right?”
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Jeez!
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@Woodrow So if that doesn’t finally elicit some type of apology from KSU………Man oh Man.
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approxinfinity said:
I think for me, my hate for K State starts with their coach being an a-hole, just like Wichita State, and that feeling isn’t abated since they have no discernable face on the roster that I appreciate at the moment, either as a player or as a person.
Lots of good points in your post…
This one about Weber, I thought I would comment on because I’ve never felt any ill-will toward Weber. I thought he was a pretty decent coach as he has had a good number of timely wins against B12 contenders that helped us win conference championships. And he’s rarely thwarted our path to the championship.
But my opinion is changing because calling a press with 2 minutes left after we put our bench in turned out to be the first step toward the catastrophe.
I hope he thinks long and hard about that move.
In that way, he is directly accountable for this mess, but there is little mention of that and he has been circumspect in the aftermath.
