Barking Mad Game Thread
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@mayjay Perry is much more athletic. So far, better outside shooter.
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Does any one recall a better run than the 27-0 we just watched?
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Post game just said why Dave doesn’t play more yet, he’s still out of control too much to leave out there for long stretches. Once the game slows down for him, he’ll be fine and see a major upswing in minutes.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I don’t disagree, but he didn’t always use that athleticism well. Poor rebounding instincts, poor defender.
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@JayHawkFanToo 22-0 run on Marquette earlier this year brought us back from behind six or eight
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Did doke ever come out?
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Every box score is an adventure. Vick and Doke with 0 points tonight and still a 25-point KU victory.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Every box score is an adventure. Vick and Doke with 0 points tonight and still a 25-point KU victory.
Going to be a lot more 0s for Doke…
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Anyone think we would ever win a 13.3% 3 pt shooting game, let alone win by dbl digits, or conceive it could be by 25?!!
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Ya that’s really too bad. Get better soon, Doke.
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@jayballer73 Coach said he hopes to have Dok back by Christmas.
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And outrebounded by 9, with only 11 KU assists. Astounding.
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Can you all imagine ESPN if Duke went on a 27-0 run in a close game?
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BShark said:
Can you all imagine ESPN if Duke went on a 27-0 run in a close game?
Internet would break. Maybe not a bad thing…
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BShark said:
Can you all imagine ESPN if Duke went on a 27-0 run in a close game?
They’d probably move Duke up to 6th or 7th place in the Eastern conference.
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mayjay said:
@KirkIsMyHinrich Anyone think we would ever win a 13.3% 3 pt shooting game, let alone win by dbl digits, or conceive it could be by 25?!!
70% from 2. Wild.
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Big Clyde52 said:
@jayballer73 Coach said he hopes to have Dok back by Christmas.
YA I heard, but you listening and I had just said -who would of ever thought with Doke being out - -Vick not scoring - -so zero points from Doke And Vick - - KU getting out rebounded by 10 -and we end up better them by 25 with all that going against us - -just crazy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark who’s that guy?
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Dedric should be the main really consistent guy box score wise. Though he didn’t get any fta tonight which is very odd.
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Plot Twist: Bill Self isn’t playing Dave so that he stays at KU longer.
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@jayballer73 Yeah plus we shot terrible from three. Thankfully they did too.
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Self said he hopes to have Doke back before Christmas. They play Arizona St on the 22.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Plot Twist: Bill Self isn’t playing Dave so that he stays at KU longer.
Nah. Dave is a 4 year guy basically regardless.
I know you are joking just wanted to mention this.
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I just really don’t understand why he doesn’t play.
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Better news
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I was trying to figure out if the 27-0 run is close to a record.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I was trying to figure out if the 27-0 run is close to a record.
It’s not.
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I was thinking more along the lines of a KU record.
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Non-sequiter here, but where is Jaybate?
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@Bosthawk nobody knows. Looks like he checked in sept something. There’s also an email address listed w/his name. Anybody try it?
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4 guards looked real nice…
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@JayHawkFanToo Marquette …UNC a couple times…UCLA a few years back…that last game with Misery in the 2nd half. i was trying to think of big runs, but nothing would top 27-0.The hallmark of a championship team is the ability to put together runs that simply blow teams away. We’ve done that to two teams in the last 3 games.The signs of an elite team are coming around. i know this might not be popular with some on here, but I think our team might play better w/o Doke against certain teams, especially Villanova.
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@KUSTEVE It absolutely is better without Doke at times.
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It’s all about match ups. Doke is perfect against certain opponents but ineffective against others. Luckily KU has great depth and versatility this season that can play many styles effectively and we saw last night how good it can be when everything is clicking. Wofford was supposed to be the team with the ideal skill set to beta KU and te they got destroyed. Teams will think twice now about trying to beat KU with the 3 and many will still try but we know now that KU has an effective plan to defend the 3…now, if we could hit some 3s…
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@KUSTEVE There some match ups that are bad for Doke for sure but I think our post defense takes a huge hit with him on the bench. Even against Marquette and Tennessee we looked much better with him on the floor. The blessing in disguise is that David hopefully will get some minutes to help develop his game. Hopefully Doke is able to return without missing too many conference games. I rolled my ankle super hard as a junior, made a loud pop and swelled up so bad they had to cut off my shoe (I thought I broke something) but I was fine in a couple of weeks. No need to rush him back at this point even if we drop a few games in the non conference its not the end of the world.
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@JayHawkFanToo Doke is killer against the right teams. I have a question then … if Doke is perfect against some, and ineffective against others, should we not then adjust our lineup accordingly (if there is a reasonable alternative)? In fact, I was thinking about this exact topic earlier in the year. Times when Doke on the floor was a handicap. I do think he’s more of a benefit than a detriment, generally, particularly because getting it inside with this team is the best “first” option, given our not so whippy three point shooting. Dedric and DeSousa on the floor together (now, a bit irrelevant) would be killer. Again, irrelevant.
But am I wrong or right … Does Dedric play better with Doke on the bench? Sure seems that way to me. I think Dedric and DeSousa would be great compliments to one another, particularly given Dedric’s passing, which would be much more effective with a mobile big.
I guess I think that given our roster, and maybe until Grimes starts drilling threes, we have to use Doke. Maybe McCormack can be that more mobile big that’s a better compliment to Dedric.
Clearly, last night we played a bit faster than we normally do with Doke, in the at nice second half run. We just looked better.
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@HighEliteMajor agree
I wonder how much DeSouza is helping Big Dave in practice
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I hope Silvio is helping Dave out. It’s the only role he’ll have all year long
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DanR said:
Where is the high ankle? I’ve never understood that.
It’s basically a broken ankle if it’s a high ankle sprain. The bones separate and it takes time to heal.
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Doke is a blessing and a curse. He makes Bill want to revert back to early 2000s basketball due to his efficiency. So, while Doke does put up good numbers, he brings basically everyone else’s on the court down because Bill just wants the guards to feed the ball into the post 100 times a game.
We saw last night what this group can look like running 4 guards. It was better offensively and at times better defensively. We struggled to rebound the ball without Doke. But we also were able to get rebounds and turn them into easy points several times, so it was a bit of a toss up.
I’m hoping this stretch without Doke will get Bill’s creative juices flowing and open his eyes a bit. He was able to retreat back into his comfort zone for a bit, but now is a period where we could see a lot of growth from him and others who will have to step up.
My hope is that we are able to morph this offense into a more guard oriented attack, and adapting it to a two big lineup that would allow us to start being a great offensive rebounding team. I was very encouraged by how well we played defensively last night, even while playing two bigs, that I don’t worry about that too much now. It really is the offense that needs to get going. Specifically, turning Grimes and Garrett into offensive threats.
Last night was encouraging. I hope Doke is back sooner than later, but I really think the next few weeks without him will be a good growing experience for the entire team.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@mayjay Perry is much more athletic. So far, better outside shooter.
3-point shooting is about the only thing Ellis is better at than Dedric. Ellis shot 43.1% from 3 at Kansas, so that’s not likely to change, even if Dedric starts shooting better.
Dedric is a better passer, rebounder, probably defender, and gets to the line more.
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Dedric is averaging 19.0 points, 10.7 rebounds, 3.1 assists, and has a 27.2 efficiency rating. He’s only shooting 46% from the field and 9.1% from 3. If he gets his shooting percentage up, he’ll probably win national player of the year.
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A big part of why Dedric looks better without Doke is spacing, at least from what I’m seeing.
Dedric wants room to operate from that mid-range to the block. With both of them on the floor it looks cluttered and you can see easily they have no chemistry working off each other so far. Neither knows where to go, or where to be, opposite each other.
I was expecting Lawson would benefit from Doke on the floor as it would keep teams from doubling him. However what I’m seeing is two guys that in Self’s offense are really a lot more similar to each other then I thought they would be. That has negated what looked like on paper would be a formidable duo.
Self changed his offense to his personnel the last few seasons and I think the blueprint of that switch is still in the DNA of this team. Doke isn’t the right big next to Dedric right now and I’m not sure they will ever have the chemistry needed to make it work… Very concerning development. Is it too soon to be concerned?
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Dedric is averaging 19.0 points, 10.7 rebounds, 3.1 assists, and has a 27.2 efficiency rating. He’s only shooting 46% from the field and 9.1% from 3. If he gets his shooting percentage up, he’ll probably win national player of the year.
Don’t you know they gave it to Zion already because he can dunk really high. Like really high
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If the season ended right now I might give it to Zion. He has a ridiculous 44.1 efficiency rating at present. I expect that to go down as Duke starts playing teams that won’t just let Zion dunk all the time. Next would be Hachimura and 3rd would be Dedric.
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@BeddieKU23 Spacing helps the entire team. With Doke it enables him to be one on one or potentially unguarded in the post. Also lets him seal off a guy more easily for a dunk. With Dedric it just gives him so much more room to use his crafty moves.
I think the answer for this team is playing 4 guards. Garrett can bang defensively in the post just fine tbh. Play Jay Wright ball. The shooting will still be an issue, but this would help a lot.
Will Self do it is a very fair question though. Like @Kcmatt7 said Bill gets tempted to play stone age hoops when he can. I still think a 3 out 2 in game could be okay, but you can’t have so many plodding bigs for defensive reasons. You need to be able to guard the perimeter. Dedric plus Doke is just too much sloth on D. You also really still need more shooting threats 1-4. It’s really tough to play two bigs when you only have one guard that can shoot worth a crap.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Dedric is night and day better posting up. Perry couldn’t post up to save his life.
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@BShark Even without perimeter shooting, the 4-1 look with Dedric as the lone big really opens the floor for our guards to drive. If Dedric can step out and knock down 3’s it helps even more.
I’m not convinced that the 4-1 is the solution for every matchup, though. It works really well against a team like Wofford that isn’t very athletic and just shoots 3’s. I’m not sure we can get away with it playing against bigger athletic teams that will throw the ball inside.
I think the rebounding suffers a lot with a 4-1 look; we got beat on the glass 45-36 yesterday. It would be nice to have the rebounding vortex SDS when we play small to help mitigate that problem.
