FBI...here we go
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I agree. I have said for a long time that as long as the income is declared and the government gets its cut no laws are broken. Yes, lots of NCAA rules were broken but no crime committed by the mere act of giving and/or taking money. Now, if the money used for the payments was acquired by non legit means and taxes were not paid then that could be an issue;remember they got Al Capone for tax evasion and not for all the other crimes he committed.
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The creation of fake documents certainly does not help any of their cases. They also have a responsibility to file 1099s for anyone they paid that is not a Corporation or a 501C(3) so that the government know that there is income to collect from the individuals.
It’s really funny, because if they didn’t hide any of this, I’m sure they don’t get caught and nothing is illegal.
But both parties (the parents and the coaches/Gatto) all committed tax fraud. I’m almost 100% certain. But only half of those people are getting charged…
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I hate it when lazy reporters keep writing that money was paid to Silvio when there is zero evidence of that having happened. The money was allegedly paid/given to his guardian, Fenny Falmagne, and there is no evidence that I know that Silvio knew about it. Likely scenario is that Silvio indicated he wanted to attend Kansas which had been his first choice and at that time his guardian told him…we might have a problem since I have told Maryland you would be going there st which time Silvio said fix it and Falmagne went to Adidas.
The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian? More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?
Preston’s case is different insofar as the entire family knew about the payment and publicly, and I will guess privately as well, denied it. KU cannot be penalized for something it did not know…and Billy never played an official game for KU. Maybe MU will demand the exhibition game is forfeited to them because Billy played…
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The question is do you penalize the kid for the dealings of the guardian?
Likely, yes. The NCAA has usually penalized the kid in the end. The Cam Newton rule no longer applies. Look no further then Cliff Alexander as well. In broad terms yes I think Silvio could lose his eligibility if the paper trail is proven to lead to his guardian.
However I have the opinion the middle man Corey Dawkins kept the cash he was supposed to distribute. There hasn’t been any evidence presented showing a paper trail leading back to anyone. I’ll await to see whether that is true or not.
More importantly, do you penalize KU who apparently did not know anything about it?
It would be hard to see that happening without the NCAA having evidence to support the school/ coaches helping facilitate this whole situation. The Billy Preston situation helps KU actually, they found an issue and reported it. That shows a school willing to follow the rules. KU can use other players over the years as well showing a pattern of consistency following compliance. It’s certainly not a lack of oversight issue. KU will have a strong case to support itself if the NCAA tried to give them some sort of violation(s).
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Like couldn’t they have just “hired” Billy’s mom or Silvio’s Guardian to an “AAU Coach” position? This just seems so incredibly dumb to me. And a ton of unnecessary effort on Adidas’ part.
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Well feeling somewhat better. - - - read an article that was talking about the 1st day of the trial and trying to make sense from it:
It states , that the Feds are trying to prove that the Adidas officials including Gatto are trying to defraud Universities , stripping players of their amateur status by paying them with out the Universities knowledge. ( if they get this done that HAS to benefit us for sure right? ) The Article says Gatto has to come up with evidence other then hear say. - -The jury will look at him as a partial witness as he has to much to lose - - ( his freedom ) - what he trying to do is throw his business partners - Coach’s under the bus to save his bacon.
They write is this article - - they wrote so - - -Will the wire taps reveal Coach’s were orchestrating the payments? - - - A prosecutor’s friend says the prosecutor says his guess is NO. He says IF that were the case one of two things likely would of happened. Either the Coach’s would of been listed as Co- conspirators , defrauding the very University for which they work for OR the Feds would realize the schools weren’t being defrauded because the schools knew about the payments and the feds would choose not to proceed with the case. - - – Interesting , man hope this all works out
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Is there precedent of vacated seasons due to ineligibility of students even though it was unknown to the university?
Even so, if it turns out that KU had no knowledge and that the charge is defrauding universities, then would the NCAA enforce a further penalty (vacated season) to a defrauded university? I would assume not as it would be a terrible PR move.
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@chriz Duke didn’t have to vacate anything for Maggette lol
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Time to hear from Nike? Lace ‘em up…
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@JayHawkFanToo Lol @ MU trying to get KU to vacate the exhibition game!!
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If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?
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mayjay said:
If we have to vacate anything, can they wipe our memories of watching the losses, too?
Or, better yet, give us the death penalty–in football?
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Saw this in a Topeka CJ online article about the trial.
“KU’s Silvio De Sousa is one of the players who was involved in such wars, according to Casey Donnelly, Gatto’s attorney. Donnelly said Gatto paid $20,000 to steer the prized forward to KU after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland,” according to a Yahoo Sports report.
Donnelly vowed to provide evidence showing Gatto’s payments were made with the knowledge of some highly paid coaches, Yahoo Sports reported.
With regard to De Sousa, Donnelly said Gatto was asked to match the Under Armour offer so De Sousa “could go to Kansas,” but she didn’t specify who asked for the offer to be matched.
De Sousa’s name previously had been connected to the corruption probe, but Donnelly’s statement marked the first time Gatto admitted paying for the 6-foot-9 Angolan to come to KU.”
Every other article I’ve seen said the payment to his guardian for “reimbursement to UA”.
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Barring a much more substantial paper trail, I can’t see the NCAA coming down on anyone. If they do, everyone’s going down with us.
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I would just find it hard to believe KU’s staff, after years of prophylactic suspensions of players where something suspicious came to light (Alexander, Preston), would cavalierly throw caution to the winds and get involved in a double pay-for-play scenario ($ to Silvio or guardian, $ also to reimbuse UA).
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If you get a chance like Mat Tait said , if you get a chance go to Yahoo sports College podcast. - talks about this FBI thing, with Dan Wentzel - - -Pat Forde and some dude named Pete somebody , who the hell knows - -anyways they said or Wenztel as - The defense is coming all out with it they say
They are admitting everything yes we did this BUT - NCAA rules are not in the laws of the Country/ throwing it out that they did nothing wrong. Like Adidas saying HEY we were using Adidas money , trying to get the kid to an Adidas school. The defense is thought or possibly trying to express that is how am I hurting a school by getting them a good player.
Wentzel says if the Feds are trying to win this case based upon by talking about the love of NCAA rules - he thinks the defense has a good shot at winning this case. He almost makes it sound like since this trial is being heard in NY sits up a lot better for the defense then if it was being held in Indiana
They said people just don’t care about a lot of this. They said the fallout of this isn’t gonna be whether Dawkins gets a year in some minimum security prison - -It’s gonna be about the banners forfeited - - Coach’s fired - -wins vacated.
Prosecution brought out in a one line statement how Billy Preston was paid or agreed to be paid 90,000 dollars to come to the University of Kansas. - -Mercy what a mess. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I see a possible one time NCAA general amnesty in the future. If the NCAA punished everyone involved they might have to cancel the season or seasons.
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@mayjay I agree and I find it extremely unlikely that Bill Self or any of his staff, coaches would do anything to hurt KU Basketball in any way shape or form.
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To me, its looking like Silvio won’t be able to play for KU this season. Its not fair to him at all. I mean dont punish the kid for something he wasnt involved in. Make the recipient of the payments give it back and penalize them! Screw the NCAA and their idiotic rules.
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NCAA already declared him eligible.
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BShark said:
NCAA already declared him eligible.
The thing is that the NCAA cleared him last year , that’s great BUT what they cleared him for was they cleared him for the courses he took met NCAA guidelines to qualify to graduate early and gain entrance mid semester , and play for KU last year - -that course he had took met guidelines and were acceptable courses - this was BEFORE any of this became knowledge but quite some time- -they haven’t cleared him for any possible payments of 20,000 him or his guardian may have taken from Gotto
I think Silvio is DONE. - - Do I think it’s right ? - – Hell no I don’t - I truly feel he has no idea , like someone else said IF the guardian took money then HE is the one who needs his ass kicked , he just caused Silvio to lose his Amateur status – I don’t think you’ll ever see Silvio touch the floor in another ball game for KU. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Lulufulu They gave Sexton a 1 game penalty last year.
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jayballer73 said:
BShark said:
NCAA already declared him eligible.
The thing is that the NCAA cleared him last year , that’s great BUT what they cleared him for was they cleared him for the courses he took met NCAA guidelines to qualify to graduate early and gain entrance mid semester , and play for KU last year - -that course he had took met guidelines and were acceptable courses - this was BEFORE any of this became knowledge but quite some time- -they haven’t cleared him for any possible payments of 20,000 him or his guardian may have taken from Gotto
I think Silvio is DONE. - - Do I think it’s right ? - – Hell no I don’t - I truly feel he has no idea , like someone else said IF the guardian took money then HE is the one who needs his ass kicked , he just caused Silvio to lose his Amateur status – I don’t think you’ll ever see Silvio touch the floor in another ball game for KU. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
No, he was cleared both academically and amateurism-wise.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jan/13/silvio-de-sousa-cleared-ncaa-will-play-today-vs-k-/
Excerpt: The KU basketball program on Saturday morning announced that the 6-foot-9, 245-pound power forward who came to Kansas a semester early after graduating from IMG Academy in Florida in December, had been certified as an amateur athlete and would be eligible to play in today’s 11 a.m. game against Kansas State at Allen Fieldhouse.
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A KU mention although vague in details
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Sexton LITERALLY ON THE PAYROLL AT BAMA.
With their football program being what it is, you think they’d be better at cheating.
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Brian Bowen Sr. just said in court that he was offered but did not accept money and benefits from Arizona, Okie St., Texas, Creighton, and oregon.
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@Woodrow Lol people these days will perjure the hell out of themselves.
Edit: I reread an actual quote. He didn’t lie. He just didn’t take money from them and took the Louisville deal. I get it now. Crazy.
Didn’t remember what Oregon offered.
Arizona though, again. Just absolute trash.
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He was paid $5-$8,000 to have his son play for a Nike AAU team.
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How is Nike not more implicated in this than Adidas? OSU, UT, Arizona and Creighton all Nike schools…
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@Woodrow - link for your info? It seems to be real time?
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@Gorilla72 I am just following it on Twitter. Dan Wetzel and Adam Zagoria are both at the trial…
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@Gorilla72 All over twitter right now. https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1047947858832515074
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So , with all these schools offering Bowen money - -helping with housing 8.00 cars roflmao whatever I’m beginning to think that the way this is going the NCAA would have to put half the schools on probation inn one form or another - this isn’t HALF of what’s going on I’m getting the sense - -ALOT more schools that probably guilty not even getting caught up. If they try and penalize all the schools they are gonna be in sad shape.
Like has been said in the past - - if they really wanted to the NCAA could probably put every single school in the Nation on probation - -the rules are so jacked up - -they talking about the possibility of Compliance office and how closely thing are monitored - hell I’m not feeling nearly as bad after seeing this. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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The key to all of this is if there is proof. If not it is just one mans word versus another. So it means nothing.
And if Creighton is out there offering $100K then EVERYONE is cheating!
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@Woodrow lol just what I was about to say. Yea if Creighton can whip up $100k, anyone can.
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Woodrow said:
The key to all of this is if there is proof. If not it is just one mans word versus another. So it means nothing.
And if Creighton is out there offering $100K then EVERYONE is cheating!
YUP – EVERYONE – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Laugh now but you dont want to know what the blue bloods offer, ku included.
All this airing out of the dirty laundry doesn’t help anything. It will mean nothing because Emmert and the NCAA are the ones ultimately responsible, and where are they during this? Hardly a word
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100k AND a job offer from Creighton. Yeaaaah.
There are worse time frames this investigation could have hit for KU, that’s for sure.
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Sitting Billy was pretty smart…
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@1JayhawkLifer Certified as an amateur for initial eligibility is largely dependent on information provided by the recruit and his family. That means nothing if the NCAA finds out the submissions were fraudulent.
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@Lulufulu If that big could play for Arizona last season then everyone should be playing!
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Soooo, we’re going to see some Lawson/Lawson front line lineups if Silvio is ruled out. That means we could run a freaking 5 out offense. Dotson/Grimes/Vick/KJ/Dedric. Man oh man…that could be the best passing team we’ve ever seen.
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@KUSTEVE I don’t think we’d see them in the front court together very much even if SDS is ruled ineligible. KJ will mostly play the 3 this year and when he does play the 4 spot, it’ll be in place of his brother, not next to him, but that’s assuming Self doesn’t decide to play Mitch as the back up 4 if Silvio is ruled ineligible.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@KUSTEVE I don’t think we’d see them in the front court together very much even if SDS is ruled ineligible. KJ will mostly play the 3 this year and when he does play the 4 spot, it’ll be in place of his brother, not next to him, but that’s assuming Self doesn’t decide to play Mitch as the back up 4 if Silvio is ruled ineligible.
Ya I think your right.I think if anything were gonna see Mitch backing Dedric at the 4- -KJ will either play the 3 or he has even played some 2 -but I think most the time he will be exclusive 3. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If we don’t have Silvio its a huge loss, a huge shift in this team’s depth and the difference between being a championship contender
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@BeddieKU23 I think the difference is going from being a final four lock to being a championship contender…like most years.
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dylans said:
@BeddieKU23 I think the difference is going from being a final four lock to being a championship contender…like most years.
I would hardly call this bunch a Final 4 lock with so many new pieces. A lot of pre-season hype/expectations include Silvio being apart of that. This team may/probably will start two freshman in the backcourt which has its own set of growing pains. I think the sum of all of KU’s parts are better then the field but without Silvio its a big dent to the post depth Self was going to have.
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If Silvio is found ineligible how can KU keep supporting Adidas? Two players they allegedly paid are now caught up in this scandal.
The problem with ditching Adidas is the entire field is dirty. Nobody is clean. None of this dirty laundry will actually get fixed. SO does KU just go to the next dirty company and hope it doesn’t get caught in the cross hairs again? Or stick with the company having its dirty laundry aired out
