Wendall Carter's Mom vs Coach K
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I agree with @Kcmatt7 and @JayHawkFanToo . He’s 19 years old, going to be set for life. Are they going to be mad at Fred Hoiberg next because the whole team won’t revolve around him? These people are low lifes. Their sons team adds a player after the fact that will make them even better and they complain about it. They probably don’t make it as far as they do without Bagley, but they would have been happy because Wendell would have been the man, but actually with a senior star like Allen he wouldn’t have been the star anyways.
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@wissox as I said, I am torn on the issue. To me, it’s like K is a realtor and he sold you this house on the fact that it had an amazing view and it would appreciate in value because of the great view. Little do you know, the realtor is trying to get the land across the street rezoned to be residential and convinces someone to build a giant house on it and it completely blocks your view and literally overshadows your house.
I’d be a little bit pissed about it at first, no doubt about it. But, at the end of the day, my house probably appreciated in value because the new house that got built was so nice. And it certainly does me no good to go running my mouth now. It’s already said and done.
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KEEP SCROLLING! That article about Carter is followed by one about how the Lakers drafted Svi due to Magic Johnson’s 5 a.m phone call to the GM talking about how impressed he was with how Svi guarded Bagley in the tourney.
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To me it depends on what Carter was told. If Coach K said look, you’re gonna be our #1 option in the post if you come here, there’s some bait and switch going on and I wouldn’t be happy about it.
But again, we won’t ever really know because Coach K isn’t going to come forward and say whether or not he broke a promise to a recruit. He has nothing to gain from clarifying what happened, and everything to lose.
As parents, I can understand why the Carter’s are upset. They are looking out for the best interests of their son. Coach K is looking out for his own best interests. There is a natural conflict there.
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@justanotherfan anything that makes coach K look bad and dishonest is fine w/me. Bolden still riding the pine?
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These parents just won’t stop whining and complaining.
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The “informal consideration” at the major college level is apparently so large that some parents fight for their child to keep receiving it, especially if it looks like their kid might not be good enough for the NBA.
The players and parents at elite programs appear to be getting at least $100-200k to sign and so one would guess that continues each year of play with some exit kicker also for the 4 year players.
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Their son just went # 7 in the NBA draft.
His parents are loose cannons getting a platform to cry about nothing
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It’s not nothing to fall a few spots in the first round.
Here’s a listing of the salaries for NBA draft picks this year.
If bringing in Bagley (and the subsequent decrease in stats for Carter) means that Carter went 7th instead of 5th, that cost Carter over $750,000 this year, almost $900,000 next season, about $920,000 in his first option year and over $1,100,000 in his fourth year. That’s over $3.6 million dollars. Carter cannot recover that money no matter how well he plays because the rookie salary scale is locked in. He will never be able to recover that money. It is gone.
And that’s if that statistical drop only cost him 2 spots.
This is real money that Carter lost. I’m sure if one of your children lost out on that kind of money after being misled by a millionaire, you would also be upset, regardless of how much money they ended up making.
I’m willing to admit that perhaps Coach K didn’t mislead the Carter family at all. Maybe he didn’t make any promises and this is just sour grapes. There’s as good a chance of that as there is that he was promised something.
But either way, the lost income is real. Draft position matters and has a very real financial cost.
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I came to watch Bagley and noticed Carter. Maybe Bagley improved Carters draft stock.
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All I know, our team of non first round draft picks beat theirs! Maybe it’s the coaching, team chemistry, no whiny babies, no whiny coaches, and no whiny moms!
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Carter was the #1 PF in the class before Bagley reclassified. He was also Duke’s top recruit before Bagley reclassified and was ranked 4th in the nation, behind Porter, Ayton and Bamba. It’s pretty easy to envision a world where Carter is the one averaging 20 and 10, plus showcasing his defensive chops (scouts noted that Carter is the more sound defender, but Duke went zone to help keep Bagley on the floor) rather than be a secondary offensive option and playing in a zone defense.
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@justanotherfan so your saying he got shown up by superior talent and threw a fit. Sounds like a guy I want on my NBA roster.
I hadn’t heard of him, but those other three you mentioned I had. FWIW a top 10 pick out of the 4th best big on the freshman class is pretty alright. I don’t follow non KU recruits very closely though, maybe he should’ve went higher, but he displayed no outside game the little bit I saw of him.I wonder if Dok would’ve been first round material if he played alongside Bagley.
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You are assuming Carter would have been selected higher than he was, had Bagley not attended Duke, and there is nothing that would indicate this outcome. Regardless of where they played Ayton and Bagley were clearly the top players and in looking a the draft order I just don’t see that Carter would have been picked any higher since the mock drafts had him between 7 and 10; in fact, had he not played ta Duke he might have gone lower. Switch schools for Bamba and Carter and Bamba is a top 3 pick and Carter a marginal top 10.
I seriously doubt that any coach in his right mind would pass on Bagley just because Carter was told he might be the star. Also, coaches do not guarantee stardom, at best they promise playing time and exposure and it is up to the individual to work at translating playing time and exposure into becoming a star; Bagley and Carter both did but Bagley is the better player with more upside and this is why he went higher. BTW, of all the bigs at Duke, only Bagley played more mpg than Carter. Embiid played less games and less mpg of any of the starters at KU and yet he went #3.
Now Bolden might have a better case than Carter at Duke…
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It’s also not nothing to miss out on a few hundred thousand informal consideration bones one was informally promised. Try welching on $200k with IRS, or organized crime, or just your average everyday multinational or private oligarch and see if they say, “Fuggeddabout it. No problema.”
We are talking significant considerations. Only the Pentagon and certain government agencies ignore this size of short changing in consideration and they only sometimes.
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I just thank the refs in the Duke game for fouling up Carter … that was quite the screw job.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Our kid with the whiny mom left for Bosnia or some such place a couple months before.
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I thought Duke totally underutilized Wendell.
This is where I’m liking what I see in Self. He’s been changing his strategy the last few years based on his players.
Just look ahead to November. Coach K had to deal with 2 capable bigs. We have to deal with 4. We know Self is anxious to go back to two bigs in the lineup. I’m sure there will be a time or two when we even see 3 bigs in the game at the same time!
But for Wendell… it wasn’t just PT. They ran offense through Bagley, not him. Their sets weren’t right to give them a double-impact in the post (at the same time).
Anyways… should this be a story? I’m not sure. There will always be some parents who want to go after their coach…
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HighEliteMajor said:
I just thank the refs in the Duke game for fouling up Carter … that was quite the screw job.
But Nike EST tho
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Carter is why I think we don’t get all the big ego guys. Team Trae young is another example. Team USA showed why Self is a great coach. Coach gets players to buy into playing for each other and playing D. Those guys that played on team USA loved playing like that. When you recruit big egos that only want one year and want to raise their stock, don’t care much about team ball. Wiggs had great parents and could see thru Cal. He wanted to be coached. I’m so happy coach Self got a chance to coach a team USA, he had a lot of compliments from a lot of people!
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Now he needs to be mad at Doncic. Watch out for mama Carter, Luka!
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I am assuming that Carter would have gone higher. If Wendall Carter goes to Duke and averages 17 points and 10 rebounds, he’s a top 5 pick.
Carter averaged 13.5 points on 8.6 shots per game.
Bagley averaged 21 points on 13.3 shots per game.
Let’s imagine that Carter is the man at Duke instead and see if he can get those numbers. With no Bagley, let’s assume Carter shoots a little bit worse, so let’s knock his 2pt% down from 58% to 54%. Let’s trim his 3pt% from 41% down to 38%. And let’s move his FT% from 74% down to 72%
On 13 shots per game, Carter would shoot 11.5 2pt shots per game and 1.5 three point shots per game. He would shoot a few more FTs as well, so we will bump him from 4.5 FT to an even 5.
That means 426 2pt attempts, 56 threes and 185 FT, which, when adding in the percentages above, means 460 points on twos, 63 points on threes and 133 points on FTs, or 656 points on the year, good for an average of 17.7 points per game.
He already averaged 9 rebounds per game with Bagley on the floor. He probably picks up 2 more boards a game.
So Carter averages 17.7 points, 11.1 rebounds on 54% shooting at Duke. And that’s assuming that he would have been roughly 8-10% worse from an efficiency standpoint. If he maintains his efficiency, he averages 18.8 points per game.
I don’t know what you mean about no outside game. The guy shot over 40% from three, and also shot well from the line (which NBA scouts use as a measure for how good a shooter a player is). Bagley shot 40% from three, but shot just 63% from the line. Carter is probably a better shooter than Bagley is, although Bagley is more athletic.
Carter also averaged 2 blocks per game. Bagley averaged less than one, which is a bad sign for a guy as athletic as he is. If Carter gets to shine more offensively, he’s almost certainly a top 5 pick.
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You must think NBA scouts are incompetent and don’t know how to evaluate talent. Embiid played 28 games, averaged 23.1 mpg, 11.2 ppg and 8.1 rpg, not particularly eye popping stats, and even injured, with a limited basketball background and not playing in the Tournament, was selected #3. The NBA selects players based on the evaluation they make and the player suitability to the NBA and not necessarily on how they performed in college, if this was the case Mason, the consensus POY in college would have been picked #1. Carter was selected right around where he was projected to be picked and I just don’t see him being picked any higher.
He always had the option of leaving Duke and playing elsewhere or siting out the season, after all it worked well for Mitchell Robinson…oh wait…never mind.
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@justanotherfan ehh it’s all about the eye test. Carter looks like a decent roll player with starter potiental. Bagley looks like a potiental all star. It doesn’t matter which team they were on. Bagley may have gone #1 with no Carter stealing his shine. Or the effect of trying to guard two bigs at the collegiate level may have led to mismatches and not nearly as many double teams as if they were the focal point of the o/d.
I think he was plenty well evaluated and drafted in the correct spot.
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I agree with both of you on Bagley’s potential. I think the thing that you are both overlooking is that Carter was, in his own right, a high pick without Bagley.
I also would note that Carter probably did more to help Bagley than Bagley did to help Carter. Bagley is, at this moment, a poor defensive player. Carter is a very solid defensive player. Duke switched to a zone in large part to hide Bagley on defense. While that helped Bagley by covering his most glaring deficiency, it hurt Carter because he didn’t get to display his better defensive skills.
Comparing Carter to Frank Mason isn’t a reasonable comparison because Carter was always going to be a high pick, whereas Mason needed a strong senior season to push him into the second round. Carter, as a highly recruited big man, was always going to be a high pick, so with stronger numbers, probably moves up a spot or two. And again, if the situation cost him even one spot in draft position, it cost him personally at least $2M in real money.
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I just cannot agree with your logic. If getting the top HS player would steal the thunder of other players, Kentucky or Duke would not get all the recruits they get once the top player signs. Zion Williamson, the #3 SF signed with Duke even when Barrett, the #1 SF had already signed…you can also say that Carter stole the limelight from Bolden before Bagley stole it from him. As @dylans mentioned, if Bagley did not go to Duke, Carter would have been the focus of the opposing teams defense and his number would not have been nearly as good; having Bagley likely deflected attention to him and freed Carter some.
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@JayHawkFanToo Your post is about guys all in the same class knowing who they are going to be competing with in being recruited to Duke and later for PT, but the Carter situation was different because by reclassifying Bagley came from out of the blue and no one Duke had sewn up had had a clue of the possibility.
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If I recall correctly, there was always the chance Bagley would reclassify and attend Duke. No coach in his right mind would pass on the top player of the class any more than he would promise stardom; playing time and exposure is as much as he can offer. Bolden was recruited over again and again and he has a better case than Carter. Carter could have asked for his release and go play elsewhere but he chose to stay at Duke and he was picked at about the right spot where all the mock drafts had him. Thinking he could have gone higher is just wishful thinking…by his parents; I don’t believe he has complained about it.
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And that may be the issue. If Coach K knew that Bagley may reclassify, but led Carter to believe that he was going to be the focal point, that would be misleading.
Now perhaps Carter still opts to attend Duke, but he goes there with open eyes.
Its more about what he was told than anything else.
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I just think back to our Elite Eight game with Duke. Doke was still not himself and we were relying heavily on Silvio to guard the paint.
Why wasn’t Duke attacking us in the low post? They had the best big men tandem in D1.
Go back and watch that game again. Carter was frustrated… a bit too much from just his foul calls. Truth is… Coach K has never really been a great coach for low post players. K should have utilized his huge advantage in the post all year and especially against us since we relied on a half-season green wood (Silvio) in the low post.
Carter’s story should be a warning sign for all big men who are considering Duke.
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@drgnslayr see coach Self and his assts
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Not only that, but Bagley was covered by a 6-8 perimeter player. He should have gone for 30.
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@justanotherfan what a great game! Guess magic noticed too. D does matter! I could watch that again! Did coach k get up? All those first rounders and … except for Duvall. Wasn’t he hi pt? Great block out by svi too by that miss by tripster.
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Defense was Svi’s main issue, so showing that he can at least hold his own against bigger guys helps his stock because he has struggled to guard smaller, quicker guys. If you can’t move down the spectrum, you have to be able to move up the spectrum on the defensive end.
