ESPN MANUFACTURES FAKE STORY TO AFFECT AZ/DUX GAME OUTCOME?
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@BeddieKU23 I was under the impression he met with Az big wigs. I have not seen where he met with the FBI Monday. Do you have a link?
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KUSTEVE said:
@BeddieKU23 I was under the impression he met with Az big wigs. I have not seen where he met with the FBI Monday. Do you have a link?
Your right he met with Arizona not the FBI. I got the two confused. I retract my statement on the FBI, innocent part
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@KUSTEVE No. ESPN likely screwed this up on their own. Phil Knight stands to lose more money if he screws a big client and a player likely to bring in millions to Nike over the years. If the story got out (and why wouldn’t it?) he would be risking being barred permanently from Oregon basketball to help Ore win a game it won anyway w/o Ayton being absent. Stumpy being on the court could not be the huge edge Knight was seeking.
Occam’s Razor.
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I accept and understand I am a voice in the wilderness on this. LOL. Feel free to disagree, but I feel I have a compelling case of intrigue, and have laid out a pretty logical prima facie case. From the very first moment the asst coach bribe scandal was announced, I felt there was a lot more behind it than meets the eye. The idea that Nike would never go after one of it’s own, imo, does not factor in the obsession that most influential donor in the history of college sports has with a certain team he loves more than life itself. The millions they make off of Az sports is simply a drop in the bucket to a multi-billion dollar company, imo. Stick Knil Knight, and he bleeds Dux. Like i said, i don’t have a smoking gun…yet. Might not ever have that smoking gun. But, at least for me, I will continue to believe until proven otherwise. I appreciate your comments, even if I haven’t sold you…yet.
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I think ESPN favors Nike schools, in terms on the false or incorrect reports from the media, it seems pretty normal these days. Denzel Washington, one of my favorite actors once said “If you watch the news you are misinformed and if you dont watch you’re uninformed”. Its all based on ratings and who you can get to read or watch your outlet. The Walter Cronkite’s of the world are gone, people like him have passed or moved on.
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@KUSTEVE I did read the links. And I still do not see why Nike would attempt to destroy one of their most profitable schools just so Oregon could win a single regular season basketball game. Not to mention that if this were to get out and that you are correct, we are talking prison time for anyone who was complicit. Like hard prison time.
Not to mention that it could cost Nike billions of future revenue, because who in the world would not shred their Nike contract then and there? What player would sign another Nike endorsement deal? Or the stock market implications that would come from it. Or what other scandals would come out of an investigation into just this one scandal. Because if they are willing to lose all of that just over one basketball game, Nike is even more corrupt than I would have thought.
And, that brings me to my final point. Even if you are right, why waste the bullet now, that you could have saved for the Conference Tournament which is about their only real chance to make the NCAA Tournament as of right now.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m not saying my premise appears to be the most logical, but without that premise, we are left with a random event that happened out of the blue, where the story has already been corrected twice since it was initially reported, which still doesn’t jibe with the timeline that was already established pre season with the Dawkins wiretaps from June to September of 2017. Take away the coincidence of playing Nike U, and completely dismiss Nike’s involvement altogether, and either ESPN is lying about the timeline of the wiretap, or the FBI is lying. Because there were no wiretaps on Stubby in 2016. And Ayton signed with AZ in 2016. But ESPN is now saying the wiretaps were not done when the FBI said- they were done in 2016. The same week, Trier pulls a dirty drug test, and his reaction, at least to me, doesn’t seem like a guilty man. I will use a good example- when the sh** hit the fan about Cliff’s Mom taking that loan, we didn’t hear two words from Cliff the rest of the season. Look, I’ll grant you make a strong case why my theory could be all wet, but it just seems real funny that all events take place in a week. The last time the FBI announced a coach on the take ( Pitino ), they were there with bells and whistles, front and center on tv. Why would the FBI simply leak an allegation of this proportion to a sports reporter? Why wasn’t the FBI behind the cameras announcing this, like they did last time? Why the very curious Friday night release? Lots of unanswered questions for me. I appreciate the give and take. For some reason, I am fascinated by the whole story. lots of cloak and dagger stuff.
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You know what sucks… Ayton was headed to Kansas before Stumpy arranged his paycheck.
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Now, here is another lie that ESPN has been caught in :
Here’s the headline from the original story:
FBI wiretaps show Sean Miller discussed $100K payment to lock recruit
Now, the story has been changed and altered as of today. Now, when you look for what would’ve been the biggest story of the year on the ESPN website, it’s nowhere to be found. You have to look way down on the ESPN website to find a mention of the scandal. And lo and behold, they have the story. And curiously, they won’t lead the story off with their own scoop, they lead off with the loans story from Yahoo. And when they mention their own exclusive scoop on the Ayton bribery scandal, here is what they say:
Sources told ESPN that FBI wiretaps intercepted telephone conversations between Arizona coach Sean Miller and Christian Dawkins, a key figure in the FBI’s investigation into college basketball corruption, in which Miller discussed paying $100,000 to ensure star freshman Deandre Ayton signed with the Wildcats.
Now, wait just a second…on Friday, you said the FBI wiretaps showed Stubby was paying off Ayton … NOW, IT"S SOURCES TOLD ESPN…
Now, that’s quite a leap. And a big, fat intentional LIE that is being covered up by ESPN. Maybe it was simply a reporter wanting to make a name for themselves…maybe it was more ominous. I dunno, but the more I think about it, the more I think the FBI was never involved in this story, and the shock value of the fake news was the intended effect. It wouldn’t surprise me if they planned all along to walk the story back.
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@KUSTEVE The FBI investigation started in early 2016. So it is likely that there was plenty of wire-tapping going on in 2016.
More times than not, the simple answer is the right answer. Combining the events would mean that you need to include the NCAA in the conspiracy. Which seems even less likely.
The most likely solution is that ESPN CBB department wanted to stick it to the idiots over at Yahoo and prove that ESPN is still the big leagues with the better sources. But this caused them to rush a story out and not vet it like they should have.
Also, your wire-tap timeline is based on what? Everything I have read shows the investigation started in early 2016.
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@drgnslayr What if a bribe wasn’t ever paid to Ayton? The ESPN story has more holes than swiss cheese. Trust me, it wouldn’t bother me a bit if they could prove he took a bribe. I thought he was bought when he signed with them. And even though the ESPN story is fake news, it doesn’t mean Ayton or Stubby are innocent. But, you can’t make up a big, fat lie and present it as news like ESPN did to take em out. You can’t say FBI wiretaps show one thing ( which was the biggest story of the year, imo), and then change the story a few days later, and say sources tell ESPN… I think the whole process was corrupt, which makes me doubt the veracity of the charges.
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@Kcmatt7 Dawkins was wiretapped June 2017 through September 2017. If the FBI had wiretapped Stubby in 2016, then the story would’ve broke when they nailed Pitino, Book Richardson, and the gang in 2017. The FBI’s involvement with AZ centered around Dawkins. At the time that Book was booked, Stubby issued a statement saying he knew nothing about the bribes. If they actually had Stubby on tape trying to get together 100K for Ayton, would they have simply sat on that info? Why would they publicly call out Pitino, and not say a word about Stubby?
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@KUSTEVE Correcting timelines on a story like this, and backing down from a statement of fact to a statement that a source says something, is precisely what happens when a journalist has written a story based on a source who later turns out to be not credible or corroborated.
That is why I think it was released erroneously before higher level editors could assure themselves it could be corroborated.
It is also why virtually no major news organization releases anything until they have one or even two corroborations.
Now, Jethro, I think it is fair to examine the original source’s motives in telling ESPN about the alleged wiretap. We could well infer that source was connected to someone who was hoping to make bucks on the game. If so, they duped ESPN, I think. That only requires a crooked source either connected to the FBI or pretending to be, a gullible reporter, and an anxious editor. This makes more sense than having a conspiracy between someone at Nike, Knight, and a number of people at ESPN.
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@KUSTEVE Source on the wire tapping dates?
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True… it is just suspicious since Ayton even told Self he was coming to Kansas and then at the last minute he didn’t.
The payment will probably never be proven, one way or the other.
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@drgnslayr Weren’t we the ones who got accused of something suspicious by Steve Fisher when we allegedly took Withey away from USD?
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@mayjay That was Kevin Young, I believe. He squawked like a chicken over that.
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@KUSTEVE Thx!
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@KUSTEVE Oh, that’s right–we got Withey as fallout from the scandal involving Arizona’s last coach when he resigned…
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mayjay said:
It is also why virtually no major news organization releases anything until they have one or even two corroborations.
You are thinking about the way it used to be which is no longer the way the MSM operates now. You have frequent occasions recently when organization like ABC and CNN have had to retract stories that were not properly vetted because they feared someone else would come with the story first. News organization now compete with Social media which has no controls…a shame, really.
The times they are a changing - Bob Dylan.
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If (IF!) money was paid, it could possibly be offshore in, say, the Bahamas? You can’t “follow the money” where banking laws won’t let it happen. Not knowledgeable about these things, but I’ve heard that money handled this way is virtually untraceable. I’m not sure how family would access it because you can’t hide a transfer to your own account. I’d bet attorneys could find a way to make the money useful though…
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Vindication! Here is the pull quote:
“247Sports has since reported that there were serious questions about the validity of ESPN’s report.”
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@KUSTEVE Complete vindication! Wow! All the details about Nike’s involvement, and how Phil Knight pulled strings with ESPN to screw AZ in the game…oh, wait. There aren’t.
In a more serious vein, did anybody here disagree with the part about problems with the report? Or just about your Knight suggestion?
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Lorenzo Romar is coaching Arizona? They are so screwed…
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@mayjay My snark detector just went off. I said the whole story was BS days before this article came out, when everyone was still thinking it was true. I nailed it. The motivation behind it has not been determined, which I guess you probably think was simply a reporter trying to rush a story without proper editing. A story reporting that claims the FBI has Stubby on a wiretap discussing a 100K bribe to a player isn’t a story you report unless you have the goods - this isn’t a story about the local girl scout cookie drive where they misspelled the name of the Scout troop leader… this is about a wiretap, the FBI, and a bribe. This is about proclaiming at first the FBI has Stubby dead to rights on a wire tap, and then changing that to “sources said”. Now, that means …either the FBI is leaking info, which I don’t believe, or somebody wanted to take Stubby out real badly. So, we know now the story is falling apart … one of the biggest stories reported this year in sports is being shown to be pure steaming crap. Still, we’re left wondering the motivation for reporting a false story that has affected a team, a coach, and a program in such a profound way. I think it’s a matter of time before the people looking into this start wondering why, and then I think we’ll see people wondering the same thing about Phil knight, Nike, their relationship with ESPN, and the curious timing of this fake story.
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@KUSTEVE Actually, I never bought the whole story from the beginning because I am always skeptical of stories based on “sources claiming knowledge of the tape”. I think they went with someone who claimed to have been told by someone else what was on the tape.
It is far more credible when they claim that two or more sources heard tapes directly or watched video.
It is the difference between hearing something from the first person who was told something in a game of Telephone, and hearing it from someone 5 links down the line. Unreliable.
It sounds, though, as if UAz does not yet think Stumpy is cleared. This may be a smoke/fire situation. So, I won’t go so far as to say a complete pile of steaming crap, but ESPN should just retract it completely while they review it.
Bought a pair of Brooks running shoes yesterday, just to be safe, though. Have never supported Nike. Brooks is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Just don’t tell me Warren Buffet did this to help Creighton down the street in Omaha! (Just funnin’ ya!)
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@KUSTEVE Plenty of people have made up stories just for recognition.
Stephen Glass. Jayson Blair. Jack Kelley.
There have also been plenty of stories that have been fabricated to alter events, such like you have suggested.
But almost all of those events are 10X larger than throwing one game. Lying about Sadaam Hussein. Trying to throw presidential elections. Trying to pass bills and laws so a president can sign it. Pretending the president is ok after having a stroke. Etc. Etc. Those are the type of events that someone makes up a story for.
Then, there have been obvious games thrown for gambling purposes. I haven’t seen evidence of this yet. Though, I would think the timing of it was questionable if that was the case. They could have waited until Saturday to release the story, but instead they released it Friday, allowing Vegas to change the line before accepting bets. Basketball is only bet on the day of. So I do not think that would be the reason.
So, unless we can find a reason as to why someone would want Arizona to lose to Oregon or ruin Arizona’s season, I find the most likely solution to be that a writer wrote a story from hearsay and passed it off as truth so he could get bonus points. Only it backfired because apparently nobody vetted the story.
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@Kcmatt7 You’re probably right. I’m still left wondering, though.
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@KUSTEVE I mean I would love to see you be right lol. That’d be one hell of a story.
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The Missouri AD indicted the Governor on charges he took a compromissing picture of the woman he was having an affair; however, and as reported on the news, the don’t have the picture which may or may no exist and are “working on getting it.” Of course the DA and the Governor happen to be of different political parties and worlds apart ideologically.
Not getting into politics, just showing a current example of how stories are reported and even charges brought up with sketchy or non-existing evidence.
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Arizona having a press conference soon.
Reading Arizona’s board it seems the President and Boosters are behind Miller and sounds as if he’s going to be reinstated with some new terms in his contract… A day ago it seemed as if he would be fired and that could still be the case but there seems to be more support to keep him then it looks
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@JayHawkFanToo Actually, those charges happen more often than you think. Usually it is the result of having credible witnesses to the crime but the physical evidence is in the hands of, and belongs to, the alleged perpetrator. Bringing the charges ensures that if the evidence gets destroyed by the accused he can then be prosecuted for obstruction of justice. Independently of the underlying crime.
You might say they can get the evidence using a search warrant, but there might not be any ability to narrow down the places it could be.
I have no idea what happened with the Gov, but I have seen cases brought where the perp took pictures without consent and then bragged about them and showed them to people. Finding posts of the pics on the internet made taking the pictures chargeable even without the originals or the camera.
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Miller will remain the Arizona coach it seems.
Still a board of regents meeting this afternoon.
But they definitely gave Miller a platform to set the record straight
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@BeddieKU23 i think they’ll let him go at the end of the year anyway. Too much fall out from the Book Richardson scandal, along with the Trier drug thing. Even if the “bribery story” falls apart, he has one too many strikes against him to stay in place, imo.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BeddieKU23 i think they’ll let him go at the end of the year anyway. Too much fall out from the Book Richardson scandal, along with the Trier drug thing. Even if the “bribery story” falls apart, he has one too many strikes against him to stay in place, imo.
Agreed it’s not over for him
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The only problem is that the photo in question was never published and nobody has ever seen it.
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@JayHawkFanToo Did he deny taking it?
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Yes, he indicated that he will be vindicated…but then, everybody does so nothing new there.
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Trier magically played last night as well. Can’t make this up.
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"Let me be very, very clear: I have never discussed with Christian Dawkins paying Deandre Ayton to attend the University of Arizona," Miller said prior to the game. "In fact, I never even met or spoke to Christian Dawkins until after Deandre publicly announced that he was coming to our school. Any reporting to the contrary is inaccurate, false and defamatory. I’m outraged by the media statements that have been made and the acceptance by many that these statements were true. There was no such conversation."
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@BeddieKU23 No, you can’t make it up. If they actually had Trier to rights, why would they let him play again? So, the appeal worked. A lot of really weird events happening around Arizona all at once …doesn’t this all seem very, very strange?
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@KUSTEVE What if they aren’t connected but are parallel events? And what if the NCAA made a little deal with Trier for some inside info on the program?
I think it more likely that those issues we previously discussed on the drug test played a role. He has been subjected to random unannounced tests, and these were only trace amounts. Now they are saying of an undisclosed drug, which may be a change or just a slight backing away to protect him from further public speculation.
On Stumpy, I was awaiting a ten million dollar libel suit. If he is innocent, that would have been the logical step (it should have been filed on Monday when the court opened) and ESPN would have had to make a complete retraction and apology (might not stop a suit, though), or reveal its source in discovery or face sanctions including a possible default judgment.
When someone doesn’t sue when they are so “outraged” I always stay skeptical of their unwillingness to have discovery served on them. Phone records? Calendars? Emails? Texts? Usually a treasure trove of interesting info.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BeddieKU23 No, you can’t make it up. If they actually had Trier to rights, why would they let him play again? So, the appeal worked. A lot of really weird events happening around Arizona all at once …doesn’t this all seem very, very strange?
If there is one thing I don’t understand its how the NCAA works.
I mean Preston is playing in freaking Bosnia because they couldn’t rule on his eligibility. Rant over regarding KU.
With Trier, in my personal opinion I don’t believe he’s innocent. Further diving into the drug that he was suspended for, the first time around, it just points to a plot to gain an edge. You don’t stumble upon this at Rite Aid or Walgreen’s. I don’t buy his innocence in this. I don’t have all the facts on this 2nd suspension for it magically appearing in trace amounts in his body again. I’m surprised how quickly it was resolved though. Maybe he’s innocent but I’m not buying it with what is currently available for information.
We do agree that the events surrounding Arizona are weird. We’ll likely have to wait a while to see how this all plays out. I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg
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@mayjay I have no doubt the libel suit is coming. Timing is everything. We are a little over a week away from Selection Sunday. To say that he would’ve immediately dropped everything, and filed the suit if he was innocent, and a victim of a smear is somewhat presumptuous on your part, imo.
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@KUSTEVE I am still awaiting the complete story from BP’s mom.
Not presumptuous at all. Remember, he spent all weekend and half of this week not coaching. Just being outraged. I assure you he spent far more time this week with his lawyers than would have been necessary to get a lawsuit ginned up. What, a five page complaint with a couple of affidavits affirming the factual basis and service on the defendants? If he was innocent, truly innocent, any attorney with experience in federal court could have drafted that in 2 hours.
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@mayjay Once again, Selection Sunday is 9 days away. Does AZ or Stubby want the publicity of filing a 10 million dollar lawsuit against ESPN being the headlines right now? I guarantee you there will be a libel suit filed over this, but it won’t happen until after the NCAA tournament.
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@KUSTEVE If he’s innocent hell yes he files immediately in an attempt to shine the light on ESPN and not AZ. Maybe Stumpy is innocent in this and doesn’t want something else found out? Maybe he’s not completely innocent, but it didn’t go down as reported. And here’s the least likely one, maybe he’s completely innocent.
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@mayjay I’m kind of with @KUSTEVE on this one. If anything is being done at the moment, it is ESPN and Miller’s lawyers talking about a settlement deal.
I wouldn’t expect a filed Lawsuit until the summer. But as @mayjay points out, that is IF a lawsuit is ever filed. I would agree that I don’t think one will ever get filed. I do not think Miller is clean. I do not think he would want anyone combing through his life. Therefore, I do not think that this will ever be followed through.
It would be damn near impossible to actually prove that he did anything though. I’m sure by now that every single dirty coach in America has purged their computer, laundered their money, work only on burner phones and don’t do anything that isn’t in person anymore. I’m not sure that the FBI actually stopped top recruits from getting paid. I think they may have just reminded everyone to be more careful about it.
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@dylans I’ve said all along, I think he’s dirty. And I have no doubt he won’t be coaching AZ next year. I object to an obviously fake story designed to take him out.
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I am with @KUSTEVE. A law suit at this time would bring on so much attention that it would seriously affect the team which despite the distractions, still has a lot of talent and good enough to be selected pre-season #1. Lots of time to file afterwards and add additional charges if the team does not do well and the distraction caused by the article is blamed for it.
