NCAA Corruption Investigation - Kansas Identified?
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@Kcmatt7 the hypocrisy is with the NCAA Tournament. There is no way that the NCAA is going to punish all of these teams to the point of them missing the tourney… they would miss out on a TON of revenue with the best programs in the country not going to the tournament.
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I just gonna be honest I’d be pretty ticked if we had to vacate wins because JJs mom took $2,700. This is an interesting road because the NCAA hasn’t penalized the kid several tiems if they had no knowledge of it example Cam Newton’s dad getting 200K with no punishment. To make it the schools responsibility to keep not only try and keep track of the kids but what’s their parents are doing is a little crazy. Make it illegal for agents to speak to anyone related or the kids themselves. The AAU circuit and these agents are most of the issues with what’s happening IMO.
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BShark said:
@jayballer73 Um, link? I’ve only seen $2,700 cited.
ya, my bad - -your right - -it was 2,700 so many figures in this thing. - - There is no way the NCAA can hand down sanctions o all these schools - this thing will blow up in the NCAA face.
Can you imagine if they penalize or try to penalize all these schools. - - Kentucky - - N Carolina - - Michigan State - - - Louisville - - KU- - - and so on and so on and so on - -going to be interesting what ends up happening - -this could be the straw that breaks the /camel’s back ( NCAA ) where all schools back away from the NCAA. - this thing I think is still going to take a lot of time to wrap up. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This report is some crazy transparency into the underworld. Without the details of everything how can the NCAA do anything.
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Guys this will blow over because a Duke and Mich St player is mentioned. So the media will fawn over the condescending words of K and the tough words of Izzo. THey will both blame the dirty agents and not players or families. If this was just UK or Louisville or even us it would be a whole different ball game.
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If they question Apples its not like she has to talk. They have zero power to do anything. Her son no longer is in College or has anything at stake to risk talking
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@mihawk Agreed. And if you pissed off these schools enough, what is keeping them from starting their own P5 tournament and making ALL of the revenue?
The more I think, the more I am becoming a fan of the P5 conferences to just start their own organization. They can privatize the athletics departments 100% and keep Title IX out of the discussion. I think it would solve a lot of the current NCAA problems. The NCAA is hypocritical in the fact that they don’t give 2 craps about the education the athletes receive. Only the money the athletes generate. They don’t hold schools accountable for anything academically (as proven by UNC). How a player like Duvall can academically qualify at a school like Duke blows my mind. They couldn’t care less. And their lies the problem.
The NCAA Mission Statement: “Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.”
The NCAA is not even following it’s own mission statement. Which is why people do not respect them.
Let’s call a spade a spade and privatize revenue producing college athletics so players can get paid in a transparent way since it is happening anyways.
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BeddieKU23 said:
If they question Apples its not like she has to talk. They have zero power to do anything. Her son no longer is in College or has anything at stake to risk talking
“I never gave any money to Josh and never paid it back.”
Seems easy…
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Unless Dawkins or Miller or whoever provided the money to Apples is going to detail how the situation went down, the NCAA gets the testamony explaining it, questions them, questions Apples and everyone comes clean what can they do? This goes for everyone listed.
Its an eye opener seeing just how much agents were getting involved with kids and families. There is enough information here to know things need to change.
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Also remember Darnell Jackson took money from a booster and simply had to repay it. $2,700 is pretty much nothing. Doubt KU will have to vacate wins because of this.
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@BeddieKU23 @BShark Here’s the other side of the coin, if it happened before JJ was even on campus or committed to KU. Is that didn’t the NCAA clearing house clear him after that?
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kjayhawks said:
@BeddieKU23 @BShark Here’s the other side of the coin, if it happened before JJ was even on campus or committed to KU. Is that didn’t the NCAA clearing house clear him after that?
Proving when the money was exchanged is key. Apples doesn’t have to do anything, they are not privy to her personal information. She has nothing to admit because there is nothing on the line for her son, he’s not in College.
If this was a situation where the NCAA is aware that Apples received money and Josh was still in school then you have a situation (like UK, Duke, Alabama, etc face with current players listed). Those families would want to cooperate you would think.
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@kjayhawks That’s basically based on them submitting transcripts, checking boxes and then literally, saying you didn’t accept any money.
I was cleared in less than two weeks when I applied in HS. Kind of a joke tbh.
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@BeddieKU23 Duke, UK and Bama almost HAVE to sit those guys now right?
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Duke, UK and Bama almost HAVE to sit those guys now right?
Bill/KU would. Doesn’t mean others will do the right thing.
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So Izzo had dinners with Dawkins and potentially multiple players paid. I really thought he was clean.
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@dylans Bill has over and over when any question arises. Even when Bragg was innocent last season, he sat him.
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@Kcmatt7 The NCAA should ONLY be a governing body and a regulator to the P5. But right now they are making money off of all these athletes. That’s the problem. If any of these schools are punished, then it will have a negative effect on the NCAA bottom line.
I am 100% behind the P5 leaving the NCAA in the dust, but I do think there would need to be a separate governing body (that does not profit from the schools) to regulate.
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@BShark link?
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark link?
It’s in the Yahoo story. Also “Villanova coaches” that one doesn’t shock me one bit…
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So we have a date of Feb 1 2016 for the Apples advance of 1,700. He was an unsigned prospect at the time. He did not sign with KU until the spring.
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@mihawk I think it would be an organization comprised of the 100 schools. Basically, what I would envision, a Senate style of deal. Every school has 1 representative. They decide things based on votes. Every school has equal say. No separate TV deals like the LH Network. A United Athletics Programs of America. This will come after the Declaration of NCAAdependece is written. The NCAA will attempt to stop this by declaring war and cutting off supplies sent to the schools. Only to find that the schools, by bonding together, became stronger than the British, I mean NCAA.
They do say history repeats itself…
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Jared Jefferies hasn’t been in college in 15 years and he’s on the report. This is comical that the FBI is connected to a potential NCAA amateurism question involving an athlete taking a loan for as little as $71.39.
So…that uhhh Texas Tech game should be pretty good tomorrow. It’s nice that KU is on gameday for the 2nd week in a row and we’ll get to see Jay-Will superman that KU blue and shortly follow with flock of boo birds.
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@BShark I thought Jay was clean. However, his recent success has been unprecedented.
I thought Izzo was clean until last week with the other scandal. Now, this is making a lot of sense. He got tired of being a bad recruiter… His recruiting did pick up a ton lately and I always wondered how. Figured Nike was paying players to go. Now the picture is becoming more clear. His legacy will likely be tarnished. I don’t expect him back at MSU next season at this point.
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BeddieKU23 said:
So we have a date of Feb 1 2016 for the Apples advance of 1,700. He was an unsigned prospect at the time. He did not sign with KU until the spring.
Correct.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I thought Jay was clean. However, his recent success has been unprecedented.
I thought Izzo was clean until last week with the other scandal. Now, this is making a lot of sense. He got tired of being a bad recruiter… His recruiting did pick up a ton lately and I always wondered how. Figured Nike was paying players to go. Now the picture is becoming more clear. His legacy will likely be tarnished. I don’t expect him back at MSU next season at this point.
Izzo might just be Pitino mk 2.
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Talk from other sites. - - Our consecutive conference Championships is jeopardy possibly?
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@jayballer73 highly doubtful if this is all they have on us. The sum of money is fairly small and it would be hard for KU or even Jackson himself to have knowledge of this. The NCAA can’t expect the players parents to hand over all there bank statements and pay check stub from before the kids are even committed.
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@kjayhawks Clearing house decisions before new info comes are irrelevant. Ask Cal.
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When a player with Markell Fultz’ ability signs with Washington red flags should be raised immediately. I don’t know much about him, but I just think that’s evidence that something strange went down.
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Paying players would make no difference because players can still be tempted by more outside money. They should simply let players have nonexclusive contacts with agents and loans (to be reported to the NCAA) that can be disavowed if said agent doesn’t get the player X amount upon leaving school or within a year, say. And pass an actual law providing for criminal penalties for anyone seeking to induce a player or family member to sign a nonreported contract.
Open contracting like that will run the shady characters out quickly.
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@wissox or when a players parent is “running their recruitment” all it means to me is that they are taking payments and the highest bidder is where they end up.
That is what worries me about JJ the most. I just hope we don’t hear of a Kansas coach being involved. We can’t help that we are such a good program that people pay players to come here.
Of course, that is probably a bit of an ignorant thought on my end. It will all come down to the levels of deniability. I just hope we don’t hear about Self going to dinner with agents.
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@mayjay great ideas. That is exactly what they need to do. Find a way to create transparency and crush anyone who does things behind closed doors.
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mayjay said:
Paying players would make no difference because players can still be tempted by more outside money. They should simply let players have nonexclusive contacts with agents and loans (to be reported to the NCAA) that can be disavowed if said agent doesn’t get the player X amount upon leaving school or within a year, say. And pass an actual law providing for criminal penalties for anyone seeking to induce a player or family member to sign a nonreported contract.
Open contracting like that will run the shady characters out quickly.
Pretty great idea.
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@Kcmatt7 It perhaps could work even better if they guaranteed NCAA immunity to any player who reported shady inducements. Use the players as confid sources rather than punishing them if they self report going to dinner with a crook who paid for it.
I’d much rather have the chance to catch the illegal hunter than simply making sure no one gets his target.
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@BShark That Deadspin Article is exactly how I feel about this. FBI is trying to shake more things out.
I think the NCAA is more in damage control mode than they are attack mode lol.
Someone in that office is running around “WHO TIPPED THE FBI OFF?! Son of B. Sht Sht Sh*t. How are we going to spin this? How are we going to fix this?”
There is no way the NCAA wanted the FBI to do this. This puts way too much pressure on the NCAA to investigate 100 programs and dole out fair punishments to all of them without pissing off one school because they got a harsher penalty than another. It’ll be 10 years before they get to the bottom of all of this too more than likely.
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A couple of interesting items. Did anyone notice the headers on the spreadsheet are in what I would call Spanglish or a combination of English and Spanish and one of the headers indicates “Cambios de los Accountants” which in correct Spanish would be “Cambios de los Contadores” and “Presentado en Espana” or “Presented in Spain”? This typically happens when someone in a Spanish speaking country uses software written in a English. Could this be loans originated in Spain for players playing in Europe?
More importantly, if schools were not aware of these monies changing hands, can they be held legally responsible/liable? Seems like an extreme reach to me.
Now, the NCAA is a different beast and it can directly benefit from fines it can issue to big programs for whom a few million would not be much of a hardship. I see a big ammnesty coming to programs that were not blatantly involved. If this does not happen, I can see a s enario where the 5 big conferences leave the NCAA and start a new and more college friendly sports association.
Maybe this is what it takes to spur the NBA to ditch the OAD and adopt the baseball model.
Paying students that already receive free tuition, room and board and access to the best coaches, trainers and facilities and national exposure, for academic performance is silly. It would grossly discriminate against the rest of students that not only don’t get these benefits but have to pay for the privilege and patiently wait until graduation to collect the benefits of the education. I guess this makes me old school…
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@mayjay Something like that might work. They need to change the culture before they change anything else.
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@JayHawkFanToo The free market indicates they are worth more than that. We need to just eliminate OAD. Let the top players that want to get paid go get paid immediately.
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@JayHawkFanToo Loans more likely to have originated in places like Colombia or Mexico or even Russia. Huge caches of cash (couldn’t resist) tend to flow along the same paths as other untraceable commodities, and seem to implicate organized crime involvement.
Gad, I hope there isn’t any gambling investigation going on simultaneously!
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They should just cancel the entire season today. All records to date stand. KU 14 straight conference championships!
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We are talking about piddly amounts of money. Yes, the multimillion operations operate that way but we are talking about low 4 figure payments here.
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Except colleges are not or should not be places where athletes go to sell their wares to the highest bidder. Colleges are and should be places where individuals go to get an education first and foremost. Like I said, I am old fashioned this way.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
We are talking about piddly amounts of money. Yes, the multimillion operations operate that way but we are talking about low 4 figure payments here.
That you know of, in one sport. And in that particular sport, don’t you think organized crime, trying to take over gambling in the most heavily bet 3 week period of the year, as well as all these NBA players with all their games, would drool at the chance to get leverage over the players any way possible?
Aside: Can’t wait for the shareholder actions if the big corps get in stock-tumbling trouble.
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As I think on this more, that might be the NCAA’s out: investigate whether this affected the integrity of the games, and if not then announce new rules following a big, “Whew!”
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@JayHawkFanToo This effects the NBA exactly 0 amount. The only thing that would make them adopt the baseball model is on court performance, player development (or lack there of), and ROI.
Why would the NBA change the rule because of this?
Now, I’m not in favor of paying players, but only because then we would have to pay all NCAA athletes. And that makes no sense to me. And I think it would bankrupt athletics departments all over the country.
However, I am in favor of creating a private organization that licenses out the names of universities, “rents” their facilities and pays players. The players would also have the option of applying the funds they receive to a reduced tuition rate at that school instead of receiving their entire salary in cash.
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In that case why even pretend it is a college team? Let’s just call it what it would be, a school sponsored professional team.
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Maybe I’m misreading the big picture… but to me, the implication in all of this is that the NCAA has more responsibility than they can govern, rules that they are ineffective at enforcing consistently, and are therefore a feckless institution.
At first glance this is bad for CBB; but with a deeper look, I think our gaze has to be fixed on the NCAA.
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@BShark maybe that 2700 was tied to MSU
