Yes, this is the worst Kansas has ever been in football
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@kjayhawks Really depends on what the top donors think… And the odds that firing Beaty costs SZ his job… And what Bill Self thinks of SZ.
I think Beaty is safe for one more year regardless.
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Even if KU goes 1-11 this year, firing Beaty isn’t the answer because of the long term damage that does to KU football and KU Athletics. KU’s scholarship numbers are still off and firing Beaty ruins this class and resets the clock on balancing the scholarship numbers. Firing Beaty also means that Zenger is most likely fired as well which would also mean likely losing whatever progress has been made in fundraising towards the Memorial Stadium renovations. Zenger supposedly already has well over $100 million secured which is more than enough to get started on the project. Conference realignment is coming again in a few years when the B12 TV deal expires, KU positioning themselves for the B10 absolutely has to be what everything the athletic department does now builds towards right now and firing Beaty and Zenger after this season does nothing but hurt that progress towards that goal.
Another question to ask is if Beaty does get fired after 3 years, who in their right mind would take the KU job knowing they only have 3 years? Clint Bowen may end up being the only applicant in that case.
Beaty needs the full 5 years of his initial contract just to get the scholarship numbers back in line and show potential future coaches that they’ll get a chance to go through a full recruiting cycle.
KU football is a history of players playing for 2 or 3 different head coaches which is a recipe for failure which pretty much describes KU football history post WWII.
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I still consider the Terry Allen teams as the worst teams since I started following KU football in 1973. Those teams were described as being on the level of high school teams. This year, I’ve been told by the media and KU staff that this team has very good athletes. If that’s true, don’t we then have to place the blame solely with the coaching staff?
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I am not up to speed on KU football recruiting. Can someone elaborate on our recruiting position especially on the high profile commitments from New Orleans area. Are these athletes still committed to KU or have they changed their position.
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KU needs to offer Saban, Urban Meyer, or Harbaugh $15-20 million per year to clean up this mess. There is no other quick fix.
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Wait a minute, why let Beaty off the hook? It’s not likely to get better for another coach either. Make him wallow in this misery or fix it himself. No easy way out, Kevin Durant wouldn’t work as our coach…
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@AsadZ As of today they are both still committed. - -Pookie and Jason. I wouldn’t hold my breath it ending up that way.
Jason says he is taking his 5 officials and you know they gonna hound him to death. - -Willing to beat - Jason leaves - -Williams leaves. - Let’s have a show of hands how many think these two will stick to their commitments ? We have a bunch of de-commits already we are down to 10 verbal’s, It’s hard to sell a program get people wanting to play here when they see this product on the field - -the reputation this School has sad shape right now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BAB
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I wouldn’t bash Beaty. He’s fixing a mess that was left for him. Winning is hard. You can have all the talent in the world. Yet if you don’t know how to win then it becomes a huge process. I remember when the Great Bill Snyder came to Kstate. He and the Wildcats played nothing but cupcakes in the non-con. I think he was trying to get his kids used to winning some games. Maybe Beaty should do the same thing?
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@DoubleDD Absolutely he should do the same thing! That should’ve always been the case. It’s not as if Central Michigan and Ohio are world beaters, but they’re pretty steady programs by comparison. We should be playing Directional School of Technology State in all three non-con games that will get us halfway to bowl eligibility. This should be obvious to Beaty…
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@MoonwalkMafia The noncon games are scheduled years in advance now. These games we’re playing now against Ohio and CMU were scheduled when Turner Gill was still coach. Future FBS games for KU include Rutgers and @CMU next year and home and homes Boston College and Coastal Carolina in 2019 and 2020. Beyond that, I believe there’s supposed to be a home and home with Illinois and Houston as well. Everyone of these games were scheduled under Weis or Gill except for Coastal Carolina which is replacing a series KU was supposed to play with Hawaii that Weis scheduled.
As easy as it is to say that KU needs to schedule cupcakes, it’s much harder to pull that off because of how far in advance nonconference games are scheduled now.
When KU’s series with Duke was scheduled, they were in basically the same boat KU is now so there wasn’t any reason to assume Duke was going to get good when the second game rolled around.
KU also can’t schedule multiple FCS teams because that pushes bowl eligibility to 7 wins since only 1 FCS win per year counts towards bowl eligibility.
All you can really do is schedule teams that you don’t expect to be good and hope they don’t improve much by the time that game rolls around in a few years. The only known future opponent that KU should maybe look at getting rid of is UH, but that series has already been pushed back multiple time because it was supposed to start this year with KU coming to Houston this year. That series is now supposed to be in 2021 and 2022 I believe. The rest of these teams KU has scheduled are mediocre at best programs like KU so KU can’t do much more without scheduling multiple FCS teams which again means KU would have to win 7 to get bowl eligible.
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I know you’re going to ignore me, but you’re right. Yet I noticed Duke asked KU not to play that second game. Well until they got good. Why can’t KU do the same thing?
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@DoubleDD KU is doing that with Houston and Illinois. UH was supposed to start this year and I believe Illinois was supposed to start next year. Neither are happening until 2021 I believe.
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@jaybate-1-0 KU has had some of it better recruiting classes the past few years. We prob have 5 or 6 NFL guys on this team, Ohio and CMU maybe have 2 a piece. If you want to win at Kansas you have to develop talent end of story, KU has better classes than KSU almost yearly. Mason, Mangino developed guys. @stoptheflop Allen averaged 4 wins a year, better than Beaty, Weis and Gill, his worst year was better than the best of any of those coaches. But yes KU has some some talented guys and returned a fair number of guys, no excuses to get worse. I’m okay if Beaty gets next year with all but 5 guys returning on the 2 deep depth chart for next year and some good recruits currently still committed. If he can’t win at least 3 games next year you got to fire him. I think it’s just a matter of time, he’s not the guy here I would be shocked to see him win more than1 more game while he’s here, even if it is 2 and 3/4s more years. I don’t see a new chancellor wanting to hire a AD and FB coach right away, this likely gives both another year.
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@kjayhawks When Coach Beaty cried after the Texas win, I doubted he had the right mindset to be a winning coach. Great person, yes. But, winning coach, no. What other D1 coach would you expect to show that much emotion after an upset win? Coach Snyder? Coach Mangino? There’s no crying in football, ever.
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@stoptheflop I agree, Turner Gill is a great guy but not an FBS coach as well.
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I too think Turner Gill was a class act. Just not a HC of a power conference type school.
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I am sure none of you have ever been paid a single dollar to call a single play in a football game . I know for a fact that you have no idea of just how much work Beaty puts in and that is why you cant understand why the man was a little emotional after taking the chance on KU ( because i assure you it wasnt the other way around) and coming in and getting these guys to believe and buy in and keep working their a… off everyday and get knocked down and read all the bs from dumbass know it alls that act like they have ever ran a hundred yards for or put in any work for this program talk sh.t and still get up and do it again and keep pushing forward and do that for an entire season and off season and get beat all year not counting rhode island high school or whoever and come on the field and beat TEXAS … i am sure that was overwhelming you have no idea what is going on while idiots sit here and rip the program and act like they care with all their KU basketball gear and profile pics talk shit about the program and have the chance for potential recruits come looking on internet about KU football and see idiots making shit look worse than it is … Zenger didnt pull Beatys name out of a hat he put in work and found a good coach that would work hard and be able to weather this fairweathered football fanbase and see it through. It takes a lot of work to get to a point where your name would be thought of for first head coaching job anyone that has put in that much effort wouldnt come here and get knocked back down and look incompitent that was worth a shit if KU pulls that again with this coach and no coach with a good rep wants that job either not worth destroying everything they worked for. Beaty was offered 1.6 millon to be Texas OC when herman took over and could have taken that job and bailed on KU that was his chance to bail and he stayed for same money you have the right guy .
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@justsayn OK, you support Coach Beaty and KU football. Good. So do the rest of us who post here. I don’t doubt for one second that Coach Beaty puts in an extraordinary effort for our program. I like the guy. But, lack of wins is not acceptable. I probably paid too much attention to all the accolades and hyperbole for our team during the off season. I expected much more from the defense this year, especially the defensive line. How do you explain the drop off in the defense this year? Hey, welcome to the board and I hope you keep posting.
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@stoptheflop Sreiously? - - -Really? - -your reaching that far, talking about a Coach crying after an upset win - -any win at all period at a program that was and still close to ashes? -That’s a reach for sure. Soo we can go to the OTHER end of the spectrum, if a team or any member of a staff that win the Super Bowl or the NCAA in THE bowl happen to cry after winning - -or another player get’s hurt - -no crying right, there is no crying in football EVER right? – ummmm, ummmm, ummmm. ya you keep that train of thought I get beat up for some of my comments and I try to refrain - -I rally do, but when I see a comment such as this - -Come on give me a fricken break - that statement is beyond way over the left field fence holy crap. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@stoptheflop So what your trying to tell people is, that a winning coach Can’t be a guy wear his emotions on his sleeve? - -Not allowed to show his passion for the School - -Not allowed to show his emotions for his kids - how had they have worked their ass off. - Show his emotions for realizing that their work was paying off , his work was paying off? -ya – ummmm wow - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY. - -WHAT A WAY TO START MY WEEK SEEING THAT ROFLMMFAO
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@justsayn I’ve been following KU for sometime in all sports. I was at the central Michigan game. Kansas took plenty of risk hiring Beaty ( was a position coach, only one year of coordinatin) , if the pay is high enough a ton of coaches would come here. Also I like Beaty, he’s a great guy and I’m sure he does work hard but they’re no participation trophies in the real world especially college football. Just about every blog site has people calling for both his and Zengers firing. I also highly highly doubt he was offered to be an OC at Texas let alone at that pay. Beaty had no credentials to be a power 5 head coach let alone an OC. Any source to that? All my Texas fan buddies laughed and said your full of it (one of which has a booster for an uncle with inside info).
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Let’s pump the brakes here for a second. Since 2008, KU football has been led by Mangino, Gill, Weis, Bowen (interim) and now Beaty. That’s five different coaches, philosophies, staffs, etc. in less than 10 years. Let’s slow down and let the program have something resembling stability for a minute.
Is Beaty having the type of success we want him to have? No.
Is switching coaches and starting all over going to help? Probably not.
KU hit the eject button too early on Gill, then made matters worse by bringing in Weis, who set about trying to undo everything Gill had put into place. That meant that when Weis got canned, KU was starting over for the third time in less than five years. What’s more, Beaty took the job with less than 60 scholarship players on the roster. The D1 limit is 85. Beaty was working with less than three quarters of a full D1 roster in his first year!
If KU bails out on Beaty now, we start over again. We basically guarantee that we will see 1 or 2 win seasons in 2018 and 2019 once you account for the attrition that will once again occur when we change coaches.
This is a cycle that has to stop. I said when Beaty was hired that he needed to be given a minimum of four years, regardless of how things went just because any stability within the program has value right now. You can’t develop any players when they are constantly changing offseason programs, schemes, etc. We can’t ever start winning if we do not bring some stability. The constant churn and turmoil has undermined any progress we may have made over the past several years.
Look at the basketball program here. The only coaches to stay at KU less than 10 years were Naismith (nine), Harp (eight) and Brown (five). KU has played basketball for nearly 120 years, and has had 8 coaches in that time. The football team has had five in the last 10 years. One team is nationally known and respected. The other is constantly searching for its way. The lack of consistent direction has hindered any potential growth for the program.
KU football isn’t going to resurrect overnight. We aren’t in a situation like KSU was in the late 1980s and early 1990s where there is a vacuum of strong programs within the conference that allows a mediocre team to rise. This will take time because the Big 12 has legitimate depth right now.
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I understand where you are coming from and I feel exactly the same way when people second guess Coach Self.
Having said that, there is a huge difference. Coach Self wins at the best click of any coach, Coach Beaty…well, not so much. Hard to argue with Coach Self’s results, not so hard with Coach Beaty’s.
We all support Coach Beaty and I have to say that before the season, I was the most excited I have been for the programs since the Mangino best days. There were many returning players and eligible transfers and recruiting appeared to have been well above the usual haul at KU. However, after 3 games I see that the team has really not changed that much and has not performed to expectation.
Perhaps our expectations were too high and unrealistic but it would be nice to see some light at the end of the tunnel but I honestly can’s say I see any at this time. Perhaps the team will surprise and win a game or two but again, realistically, I just don’t see this happening.
I have maintained in the past that a coach has to be given a reasonable amount of time to turn the program around and a minimum of 4-5 years; however, there must be some demonstrated progress during this time and I am sorry to say but I just don’t see it at this time.
No doubt that Coach Beaty is a dedicated, high character individual but so are most coaches and without tangible results he is is just another one of the bunch.
My question to you is: If KU does not win any other games this season, what should KU do? I will answer my own question and say he should get one more year…what say you?
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@justanotherfan I agree, I’m not saying firing him today just saying IMO he’s failed to develop several players with 2 years worth of experience and will be fired in a few years.
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Looks like Beaty’s mom joined the forum. We’re movin’ on up.
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What we need is a big name coach who can bring in a couple 5 star QB’s, right? Oh, wait…
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Wait for what? Um KU isn’t a football school, yet the powers to be are trying. A lot of money is about to be donated to making KU Football better. So again wait for what?
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@BShark lmao you win the internet today buddy
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@DoubleDD Weis
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@stoptheflop Dick Vermeil says hi.
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stoptheflop said:
@kjayhawks When Coach Beaty cried after the Texas win, I doubted he had the right mindset to be a winning coach. Great person, yes. But, winning coach, no. What other D1 coach would you expect to show that much emotion after an upset win? Coach Snyder? Coach Mangino? There’s no crying in football, ever.
Dick Vermeil says hi.
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Seeing a good chunk of fire Beaty and Zenger comments all across the web here. I honestly feel like the next few weeks are huge for Zenger’s job and how much more time Beaty gets. We go on the road to face TCU the 4th ranked team in the land, then KSU and Baylor at home. If we get blown away bye a TCU it’s probably not a big deal but KSU will likely have a 3-4 record and Baylor likely will be 0-8. If we get hammered by 2 teams with a combined record of 3-12 at home it will be very tough to raise amy money for a program that bad and keep the current people in charge.
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…and KU will own the records for most consecutive road loses.
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@JayHawkFanToo We can just hold our head high and wear “Record Breaking!” on our tshirts.
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Apparently Coach Beaty is feeling the heat. His comments at the presser sound like those of some one seeing the writing on the wall.
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@JayHawkFanToo It should be getting hot, as I stated before the ISU game both teams returned within a guy or 2 of the same but the result the next year flipped from 31-24 to 45-0. Samething could be said for the TCU and KSU games both return similar numbers and the games were competitive a year ago, TCU beat us 24-23 and KSU 34-19 in a touchdown game late. I beat both are 30 plus point beatings again.
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I understand KU is 14 points worse than the Vegas line…worst in college football.
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I feel like the infomercial guy “but wait there’s more!!” Kansas is now tied for the longest road losing streak in NCAA history and let’s be honest they will own it here shortly and probably for a long time seems how it has been in place since before WW2. Kansas now has the worst offensive output this century (only 17 years but still pathetic) with a grand total of 21 yards. KU has been out scored 144 to 19 in the past 3 games including 2 shutouts. If Beaty can’t at least be competitive the next 2 weeks he has to go end of story.
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The thing is I believe KU is still paying for Gill, and Weis even though both have been excorted off the property. If KU gets rid of Beaty that would mean KU would be paying for 4 HC’s? I don’t know somebody would have to research that one. However I believe it’s time to part ways with Zenger.
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@kjayhawks Minus 25 yards rushing. I can sure see why we tried to pass 20 times and rushed 31. Gotta keep diggin’ that hole.
I watched several 3rd-down-and-long plays where we tried passes in the backfield that resulted in losses or incompletions, and a few others where on 3rd and 10 (or 15) the pass was no further than 5 yards over the line of scrimmage. And Bender didn’t even get the ball all the way to those guys a couple of times. All those plays were in the same area of the field–behind or near the line of scrimmage, where we were stymied all day. Maybe trying a whole series of patterns that are 15 or 20 yards deep would open something up?
But then again, the o-line was getting swsmped by three guys, so maybe deep receivers never could get open.
Our biggest gain on a pass play was 14 yds on pass interference. Bender’s second pass was complete for 13. But our third longest “successful” pass play was 11 yds–again, pass interference. So TCU’s secondary made longer plays for our passing game than we did.
I feel bad for all those guys. I believe the coaches need more imagination to right the ship. Not trick plays, but plays that, if successful, get the team fired up, like a few deep passes. 31 rushes for minus 25 will not excite anyone except the other team.
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DoubleDD said:
… If KU gets rid of Beaty that would mean KU would be paying for 4 HC’s?..
Maybe not–we might not get anyone willing to tank their career, so we might still only be paying 3.
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@mayjay Deep routes weren’t going to happen. Defense live in KU’s backfield all night. Even Usain Bolt wouldn’t have had time to get open last night.
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Yep, oline is terrible and that’s where it starts. Get a better line and you can do MUCH more.
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I suffered through 3 of the worst seasons in baseball history with my Astros while they implemented their rebuilding plan.
This was never going to be a 3 year rebuild for Beaty. I’ve seen people ask why were programs like UCF which went 0-12 the same year KU did a couple of years ago and is currently 6-0 and why can’t KU duplicate that.
There’s several reasons for that. First would be that UCF won the Fiesta Bowl just 2 years prior to their 0-12 season so Scott Frost inherited a much better situation with very recent success and players that were apart of the Fiesta Bowl team.
Number two is the level of competition UCF plays. The AAC is not the Big 12. It’s much easier to rebound from a down year in a league like the AAC than the Big 12.
Number three is UCF is in Orlando. Their recruiting base is much better than KU’s. They are competing with USF for the second tier prospects in Florida that the Big 3 don’t want.
KU has none of those advantages. Another comparison I’ve seen is David Cutcliffe at Duke. Duke was patient with Cutcliffe and actually let him build that program. It took Cutcliffe until year 5 to finally break through and reach a bowl game. He actually regressed in years 3 and 4 at Duke like Beaty is now and we see what the reaction has been to that regression. The difference is Duke allowed Cutcliffe to execute his plan and once all of the players in that program were Cutcliffe guys, Duke then made 4 straight bowl games before breaking that streak last season.
I don’t know if Beaty will ever succeed at Kansas or not, but I know a 5 year turnaround plan is never going to be executed in 3 years. I also know that KU has traditionally cycled through coaches every 3-4 years for the better part of the past 70 years since WWII. I know that continuing that cycle of only giving a coach 3-4 years to finish a 5 year is never going to build anything sustainable at Kansas either. Every good coach that has come through Kansas post WWII has gone on to vetter programs except for Mangino was looking after the OB, but nobody wanted him at that time.
I would say that if we want any hope of success after a long period of futility like Duke, we need to allow Beaty his 5 years and realize there will be road bumps just like Cutcliffe had road bumps in years 3 and 4 that if those were duplicated at KU, wouldn’t have gotten him a 5th year to see if the plan would payoff or not.
Yes, our OLine is garbage right now. It takes time build an OLine. 3 years is not enough time. It literally takes 4-5 year’s because thise kids legitimately need 4-5 years in the weight room and there is no legal substitute for that time. The normal starting OLine are comprised primarily of 2nd and 3rd year players. They are not physically ready yet, but there are no other options out there for KU so we are seeing those growing pains right now. When injuries get tossed into the mix and players who are even less physically ready to play are forced to play, we see what we’ve seen offensively the past 2 weeks.
I don’t know if Beaty will ever get KU turned around or not, but I know that continuing to do the same thing we’ve seen for the past 70 years will yield the same results we’ve seen for the past 70 years which is one of, if not the worst major conference football team in the country.
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It gets worse friends, we just had another recruit bail. I believe 4 so far this year. Beaty says we are close to caught up on scholarships but we may actually lose ground in that department.
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@kjayhawks QB Clayton Tune is one I thought KU would struggle to hang on to even when he committed.
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Only commit from Texas bailed out following the TCU debacle.
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@DoubleDD Don’t fret - we can still get worse.
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@nuleafjhawk Hey! Where have you been? We missed you for the whole charity game controversy!
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Thanks @mayjay - I’ve been around, just super, super busy lately. I am Sooooooooo ready for basketball - i was on the road Sunday and listened to the game on the radio. I must have looked like a drunk monkey driving, because i was INTO the game! As bad as I hate to admit it, MU has some really good players this year - i was a teeeeeeeeensy bit concerned before the game. But dang - i think we’re going to be a special team this year. I think the basketball team may be as good as the football team is bad. Sorry - i try to be optimistic, but they force me to be the opposite of that.
