2018 Recruiting Thread
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@BeddieKU23 Matt sucks and is a bit of an asshat. Not a surprise to me he can’t get any good info and clearly doesn’t have a good source deep enough inside the program to hear any chatter.
He can’t even take criticism on 247 without getting all upset. Not worth the money at this point. I’ll probably drop my subscription soon unless they get someone else to partner with Matt.
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mayjay said:
@BeddieKU23 I am having a senior moment: has a presumed OAD point guard won an NCAA title? If not, could this be why HCBS has seemingly eschewed some opportunities in elite PG recruits by taking Moore?
I think it was more that Self just whiffed pretty hard on two PGs in the last class (Sexton and Young*) that the staff put the full court press on to commit. So he didn’t want to potentially get left in the lurch if he had some other tough misses. Self, like the rest of us, knows Newman is likely going pro after this year. So getting Moore on board gives the team a guard in his third season removed from HS, instead of likely having to start multiple FR or multiple players that have more of a wing skillset.
*I’m not even counting Duval.
Overall, I think it was a good move but time will tell.
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It might be time for 247 to move on and look elsewhere…
Why is it that KU can’t have a good hoops insider? Matt Scott and Shay? MEH. I used to defend MS but I really can’t anymore. He had to be goaded into posting info for his paying customers. Compare to Duke, UK, AZ sites etc… where there are regular articles…
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- Tyus Jones - National Champion
- Marquis Teague - National Champion
- Derek Rose - NC Runner up
- Brandon Knight - Final Four
- Mike Conley - NC Runner up
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@Kcmatt7 Thank you, youngster!
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@BeddieKU23 See you have good points, and that’s what I really like about this site. But for me - - I just don’t see Florida being a player in the Dotson scenario. You mention them being closer to home - well seeing he is from Carolina thee really isn’t that much difference between there and Maryland, I just can’t see it -but that’s just me. - -True he might have out played Quinerly in the camp, BUT still overall here again I think Jahvon may be better, and I still think Quinerly is the one sweat boy wants as their main priority, possibly if it comes down to it it indeed could come down to KU/Ariz - -but I just don’t see Florida in any form - -again that’s just me.
As far as Dotson and Grimes - - I would absolutely freak if we landed both. Is that going to happen I seriously doubt it. If KU lands Grimes I just don’t see Dotson coming don’t get me wrong I love Dotson I think I’ve made that pretty clear I would love to have him here, I’ve been on him from the word go But the way things are starting to shape up I just don’t feel he is coming - - -I think he lands with Coach Turgeon call me insane. Could you imagine IF we did somehow land both Quinton & Devon - - WOW that would be a sweet catch - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark I Read somewhere that shiver and Scout are probably going to combine can’t swear to it but ya Matt has gotten pretty lame - -very little new. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay You are welcome!
I do think Bill is tired of chasing OAD dreams. We just can’t land a stinking OAD PG. And I could only imagine what Bill could do with one of these 6’3 uber athlete PGs. I mean look what he did with Collins, Frank, Dee Brown and Tyshawn. The man knows how to make someone a great PG.
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Also, I think Bill has started taking Transfers as an easy way to build depth. He never plays more than 9 guys. So realistically, getting 2 or 3 each year means better use of your last couple of scholarships. At least in today’s college basketball where everyone wants playing time from day 1. He might be seeing the light before everyone else. The way to build an experienced deep team is through transfers. First of all, they have no other option. They are playing at KU for two seasons unless they go pro. In which case, that means they had a great season. Mix that in with your own 4 year guys and maybe a couple of OADs and viola, a deep team with plenty of experience.
Ok so maybe Bill wasn’t the first to think of it. But Gonzaga proved it can work… Bill just might be the first one to take notice.
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mayjay said:
@BeddieKU23 I am having a senior moment: has a presumed OAD point guard won an NCAA title? If not, could this be why HCBS has seemingly eschewed some opportunities in elite PG recruits by taking Moore?
I think Self values experience with the PG position. When you get OAD you get what roughly 8 months of stability? He’s certainly tried to get OAD talent at the PG position but when you don’t have the reputation kids look elsewhere. I think him featuring the perimeter has helped us recruit into this class and beyond. We’ll see what we get out of it. Grimes would be a homerun grab from a player who can play on/off the ball in College and transition to the modern big NBA PG.
Rarely has he had to start a freshman as PG so either he recruits to get a guy to develop behind someone or he’ll take a current option and give them a gut check and say learn to play PG for me. I think he’s done that consistently in the last 10 years or so and for the most part has had great success.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Matt sucks and is a bit of an asshat. Not a surprise to me he can’t get any good info and clearly doesn’t have a good source deep enough inside the program to hear any chatter.
He can’t even take criticism on 247 without getting all upset. Not worth the money at this point. I’ll probably drop my subscription soon unless they get someone else to partner with Matt.
I use mine for football, being a huge fan of Florida St. Its a 24/7 job for those guys, they are constantly updating fans on recruiting, the team etc so the money is well spent in that regard. It’s really pathetic that KU with a Top 5 program doesn’t have recruiting people that are connected to AAU and the team. And with how connected Duke’s guys are, odds are they are recruiting the same guys so I find myself lurking (while half the time laughing at how crazy their fans are about landing every top player in the class). I suppose the same can be said about our fans but it is funny listening to others views.
I can’t believe Matt has a job after the Trae Young recruitment. He literally lied to everyone for over a week. It was clear as day. They need to move on from him and let someone else get involved
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Malik Hall OFFERED.
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That was a good decision
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BeddieKU23 said:
That was a good decision
Agree.
Looks like KU could get involved with Noah Locke as well.
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@BeddieKU23 "When you get OAD you get what roughly 8 months of stability? "
Ironically not sarcastic!
I had a friend back in law school whose life was total drama, up and down every few weeks as she met/loved/got dumped by a new perfect guy. Several of us were really close to her, and we all spent a lot of time at the bars late at night either watching her go either gaga or bonkers every few weeks. (Call her Gertie just for fun.)
A year later, one guy who had graduated came back. He asked, “So how is Gertie? Has she stabilized?” I answered, somberly, “Well, yes, off and on.” We looked at each other, and he said, “It is tragically ironic that you were not being sarcastic!”
Incidentally, by year 3 she found for her a perfect guy and as far as I know they are together still. Past is not always prelude.
Moral: I think Self thinks that with a OAD PG there is no way for any stability in that year. There is a learning curve for his PGs almost through year 2.
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Well SVI off to a great start for his team this year, just needs to translate it to KU come our season.
Averaging 25.5 ppg in the 1st two games. Had a 25 pt game in the first game and then followed that up wit a 26 pt game to go along with 7 rebounds and 3 blocks. We need him to work his butt off for us come time our season rolls around and have a huge Senior season. - -would love to see it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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He could very well end up at any of his choices. If staying close to home is what he wants then if he picked Maryland or Florida that probably ends up being a big factor in his decision. He’s never said distance was an issue and they have consistently said relationships were key which I think KU/Florida have done the best job in doing. But the recent talk of Arizona and how they have slime’d into this makes me believe he’s looking at them hard and if he takes a visit with his family I’m worried he’ll leave there committing. Arizona is just recruiting on a different level then KU right now and this wouldn’t be the first time they have swooped in late to grab someone KU has invested a bunch of time on.
Quinerly is very good and I’ve seen some chatter that KU may get an official from him as well. These camp settings can be misleading but I think Dotson showed some things that stood out against his fellow high ranked opponent and overall over the week. He is crafty with the ball and can get to the lane and draw fouls in the manner that Frank Mason was able to consistently in his career. When he shoots the ball consistently from the perimeter he’s every part of a Top 30 player. Rankings sometimes don’t accurately get the full picture because Rankings are also meant to project not just for the College level but also the future. With Dotson I think you can see he’ll be a very good College Guard but might not be a first round type for the NBA so I think that limits how high he can be ranked. Also, I think he’s closer to reaching his potential then some other guards in this class. If KU lands him I expect he’d compete for a starting spot as a freshman because I think he’s been well coached and has the game that can immediately impact an elite team.
I think the PG class in 2018 is particularly strong this season. There are easily a dozen high level guards that can play on/off the ball and most of them project to play at least a year in College which is going to be exciting to see.
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Great story and comparison.
We have known Bill Self long enough to know what he expects from his guards. He’s tough on them and we wouldn’t expect anything less. I wonder if the OAD type wouldn’t be able to handle his “tough love”. I’d love to see a top PG come here and accept that challenge.
I also think, us fans, want stability when gushing about our roster, especially the PG position. I know that myself, I think the PG position has become even more important with how the game is evolving. I’m not sure I want to be “fishing” every spring/summer for the biggest catch at that position. We’ve had far too many successful PG’s who’ve stayed 4 years to think the OAD train would be best for Self’s system. There is no perfect model but when Self and his PG are on the same page life is easier. Frank made coaching a tad easier because he truly understood what Bill wanted from him. Whether a OAD type freshman can do the same is debatable, we’ve yet to reel in the types to find out at the position.
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@jayballer54 Thanks for unearthing these Svi stats. Have you his shooting percentages for those games?
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Here’s a name I don’t think we’ve talked about mostly because I didn’t know how much the staff has really been recruiting him with all the other targets KU has in front of him. He’s an adidas kid and has seen his stock rise a ton since the spring. Rutgers, Virginia Tech, Xavier, Missouri, Uconn, Texas A&M are also on his list right now.
6’3-6’4 guard from Maryland ranked #74 on 247… Recently cut his list to 7 with KU on it.
Here’s what he said.
He’s hearing a lot from the Jayhawks.
“They’re real good. It’s Kansas. It’s self-explanatory,” Mathis said. “They contact me almost every day, so I think I’m building a good relationship.”
He said KU assistant Norm Roberts is in regular contact.
“He said he likes my motor,” Mathis said.
He went for 25, 6 boards, 3 steals, 3 asts and is a teammate of Quickley. They took down Zion’s team.
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Duke offered Matthew Hurt… Good thing KU has plenty of other wing targets because that’s likely a wrap!
Also 2018 PF Jermaine Harris a Top 75 DMV product down to 8 and just included KU after getting offered on Monday. Decent developmental big that could be a fall back option. West Virginia has had him on campus multiple times.
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@REHawk No they didn’t break down the shooting stats that I read anyways will have to try and see if I can find. Sounds like he is doing well - -so far anyways. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I would love to land a few of these guys in the 70ish range with how our roster is set up next season. Especially if we return Preston or Doke. Or hell, if we get both back, look out.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 I would love to land a few of these guys in the 70ish range with how our roster is set up next season. Especially if we return Preston or Doke. Or hell, if we get both back, look out.
I actually think we should be looking to add as much elite talent as we can get with next years transfers.
When you talk about losing Graham, Svi and most likely Newman off the perimeter and at the minimum Whitman in the post that is a ton of experience and scoring ability leaving the team.
The balance of the team will be shifting to whoever stays (hopefully a Sr Vick and Jr Doke) to go along with the transfers and hold-overs (Garrett, Lightfoot, Cunliffe). That’s a solid 8 if Preston leaves, a solid 9 if he stays
KU could have a 3 man freshman class, carefully constructed and put an absolute stranglehold on the Big-12 and keep themselves at the front of the National Championship conversations for the next few years. The 3 I believe fit the best that KU is realistically involved with are as follows:
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Quentin Grimes- We’ve talked plenty about him plenty, mom went to KU, he’s the #1 priority at guard. Showed at the Adidas Gauntlet that he’s an elite scorer with size for either guard position. When he shoots the ball like he did in his 41 point game in front of Bill Self he’s exactly the type of guard that helps replace the production Graham/Newman/Svi are leaving behind.
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Emmitt Williams- Just one of the toughest post players in any class and maybe the most athletic player in all of High School. At 6’7 he gives up some height but makes up for it with defensive versatility, rebounding and elite athletic ability with a growing perimeter game that he’s shown off on the AAU circuit. He plays with a nasty streak on the court as if he’s mad at something and that is the sort of toughness I’d love to see KU add in the frontcourt. If KU is looking to add someone to compliment both Lawson’s old man game and Azubuike’s power and athleticism you get the best of both worlds in Williams.
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Devon Dotson- another we’ve discussed at length. Visited on his own dime during the season, is a play-making point guard, more of a traditional type PG then Grimes. I love his ability in pick and roll and he gets to the FT line at will which is a great trait to have coming into College where tight games can become all about FT shooting. He’d be the perfect compliment to Moore while grooming to be his future running mate.
Assuming both Newman and Preston are NBA bound after this year we could trot out some really exciting lineup combinations.
PG- Moore - Dotson
SG- Grimes- Garrett
SF- Vick- Cunliffe- Lawson
PF- Lawson- Williams
C- Azubuike- Lightfoot
Lots of lineup possibilities. Size, athleticism, shooting ability abundant through the roster. That’s just 11 players. Self could then add 1-2 transfer possibilities in the spring to groom for the next cycle of recruiting.
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@BeddieKU23 I feel your right about Emmit. - -I’ve noticed that same mentality that mean streak, just like he is mad at the world taking that aggression on the court.
Actually you know with that type of play who he reminds me of at least to an extent? - -You might not agree BUT I think he is a little like T- Rob in that way, T-Rob at times would just want to destroy the rim - -I remember the block he had against Mizzery at the end - - just down right mean – nasty. - -That’s what we need, some nastiness . Williams can bring that, would love to see him in a KU uni -Worried about Duke with him though - -sure he is 6’7 but plays much bigger. - -keeping fingers crossed for this one - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
That was a good decision
Agree.
Looks like KU could get involved with Noah Locke as well.
3 cb’s for KU with Locke who has interest in KU… Slater must have heard something. Not sure what that means for our other targets.
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Yeah Emmitt will be a tough pull out of Florida, as Florida, FSU, are after him. Some recent schools that offered are Oregon and. Duke will most likely be out if they land Bagley which seems to be the new latest buzz. Matt Scott for whatever its worth says there was some buzz at Peach Jam that KU could be his destination. Take that for whatever its worth.
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Matt’s scouting report on Noah Locke after watching him drop 25 on Mokan
Combo guard. Can score from multiple spots in multiple ways. Catch and shoot, off the dribble, surprising hops. Decent length. He can really move without the ball and create enough space to catch and shoot very quickly and efficiently.
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@BeddieKU23 That looks good, but I just can’t imagine landing Grimes and Dotson while having 4-5 other guards already on the roster depending on how you think KJ fits in.
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Well it looks like anyways there is some kind of movement in recruiting/news finally anyways. - - -Seems interesting that Noah Locke has kind of appeared from no where at least I myself hadn’t really heard much on him - -how about any others? - - had you?
From the high light reel and yes I realize It is a highlight reel, looks like he has some pretty deep range, good handles, might be a nice addition, for what it’s worth the CB now shows us with a sizeable advantage - -60% To Providence 20% Michigan 20%
Then shows where we have now pulled even with Florida for Emmit, where before we wasn’t even or hadn’t pulled any predictions - - -now 33% each then Duke lagging at 17% South Carolina 17% that if we can pull him would be sweet, like I stated earlier this guy comes with an attitude - -gotta love it - - --he brings it for sure.
I don’t think if Locke did land at KU I don’t feel like in anyway would this effect Grimes OR Dotson Locke I feel is a quality 4 year player, got a little floater kind of like Frank -but don’t think he would scare Grimes off or Dotson for sure. I don’t know things looks like to me that maybe this might turn out to be a little better recruiting year then I thought. - -We shall see, -Anyone know how we are shaping up with any other big then Willams? - - -of Course guess not really vital yet as we will have the boys from Memphis, just curious - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I mentioned Mathis before, I thought he was trying recruit KU. However, it seems that KU is in constant contact. I would guess back-up plan. He or Locke would be a fine addition though. I don’t think either impacts Grimes/Dotson. I do think maybe the Carey ship is sailing however.
Guards: Moore Wings/not great ball handling guards: Cunliffe, KJ, Vick Unknown: Garrett
Plenty of room for guards imo.
We will see how it shakes out but it is pretty evident that the staff wants at least two guards.
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Locke seems suuuuuper happy about the KU offer.
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@BShark I have to agree with ya man, looks like the Carey possibility slacking with the news of these latest probably right. - -Whoever it is I think we are going to be just fine. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@BShark I have to agree with ya man, looks like the Carey possibility slacking with the news of these latest probably right. - -Whoever it is I think we are going to be just fine. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He’s most likely focusing on the local schools. Nova recently joined the heard on this one. We will see if he ends up visiting or not. Hes really damn good
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BeddieKU23 said:
jayballer54 said:
@BShark I have to agree with ya man, looks like the Carey possibility slacking with the news of these latest probably right. - -Whoever it is I think we are going to be just fine. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He’s most likely focusing on the local schools. Nova recently joined the heard on this one. We will see if he ends up visiting or not. Hes really damn good
Makes sense. Nova probably realizes Quinerly is not likely now.
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@REHawk Mykhailiuk, 6-feet-8 and 205 pounds from Cherkasy, Ukraine, hit 7 of 16 shots. He was 3 of 7 on three-pointers and 9 of 11 from the free-throw line. Mykhailiuk scored 25 points in Ukraine’s opening loss to Lithuania on Saturday. He had five threes in that game.
First game The 6-foot-8 Mykhailiuk, a native of Cherkasy, Ukraine, hit 8 of 17 shots. He was 5 of 13 on three-pointers and 4 of 5 from the free-throw line. He also had six rebounds, four assists, six turnovers and three steals in 35 minutes.
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Per one of the Maryland 247 guys he was told that Locke was “looking for an offer from them”, referring to KU.
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Sounds like Locke wants to commit.
Honestly though if your Self do you take him yet when you don’t have your 2 main targets with official visits set up yet… I think you slow play this one and try and get him on campus after Grimes/Dotson have. This is where having insiders knowing what’s going would help…
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Insiders that aren’t goobers anyway.
MS says that it doesn’t impact Grimes or Dotson. That KU is losing a lot of players (mentioned Newman as leaving, tfwiw) and will need to sign a lot.
Also Locke’s circle does see him as more of a combo/2 apparently.
All that said he is listed as a PG on most services and taking him early would probably be risky.
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BShark said:
Insiders that aren’t goobers anyway.
MS says that it doesn’t impact Grimes or Dotson. That KU is losing a lot of players (mentioned Newman as leaving, tfwiw) and will need to sign a lot.
Also Locke’s circle does see him as more of a combo/2 apparently.
All that said he is listed as a PG on most services and taking him early would probably be risky.
I don’t believe MS when he says it doesn’t impact them. Of course it does and the timing of things absolutely matters.
Locke is a really good shooter and would be a welcome addition with all the shooting this team will be losing at seasons end. I just think we need to get some other things squared away first. I’m not taking Locke before signing day if Grimes/Dotson are visiting in the fall and could possibly be committing. If Locke is as interested in KU as he says then you can pull the strings when you want to with him…
With all the offers out for guards I get the feeling the staff is preparing for Vick to be leaving as well. With the summer he’s reportedly having I can see why they might be planning he could be that (6th) guy leaving.
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Yeah depending on the situation, you can really wait. Look at Duke with Tucker…
Agree though. It’s a bad look to take him before Grimes or Dotson visit. Especially with the staff making it known to Grimes that he is the top guard target. Now if Grimes takes his visit, and then doesn’t want to commit until spring time, then all bets are off.
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Looks like Carey is likely to visit in October.
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BShark said:
Looks like Carey is likely to visit in October.
Will be nice getting him on campus if it happens. I’d take him over others we are pursuing, just love his game and scoring ability. Imagine if Self could lock down 3 guards…
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Three top 75 guards would surprise me. It would probably also lead to a transfer.
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@BeddieKU23 Who leaves the program if that happens? A back up PG is the only real need for 2018 at this point as far as the back court goes. Moore, Vick, Garrett, and Cunliffe are all going to be around. There’s also KJ Lawson as an option at the 3 depending on recruiting.
Where’s the room for 3 more guards in 2018? There’s no way Moore, Cunliffe, or Lawson leave because they aren’t graduate transfer eligible yet and would you really want to lose Garrett after one year? Also, what guard recruits of the ones being mentioned would even want to come here to likely sit in the bench in 2018?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Bingo.
Realistically, the only way we see a freshmen start next season is if we land Romeo Langford or MAYBE Grimes. I’m not even sold on him being a major contributor in his first season if he comes.
We don’t have a 2nd PG. But really that is it on the perimeter. Vick and Garrett are exactly what you want at the 2.
So really the only room we have is for a PG ranked around the 70s to come here and play 8-10 mpg. IF we can even talk one into doing that. We haven’t been able to lately so I’m not even sold on that.
Now if Vick leaves, it really opens the door for PT. Otherwise, I’m not going to assume we land any guards inside the top 50. Not even one whose mom was an alum…
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BeddieKU23 Who leaves the program if that happens? A back up PG is the only real need for 2018 at this point as far as the back court goes. Moore, Vick, Garrett, and Cunliffe are all going to be around. There’s also KJ Lawson as an option at the 3 depending on recruiting.
Where’s the room for 3 more guards in 2018? There’s no way Moore, Cunliffe, or Lawson leave because they aren’t graduate transfer eligible yet and would you really want to lose Garrett after one year? Also, what guard recruits of the ones being mentioned would even want to come here to likely sit in the bench in 2018?
Do you think Self is after all these guards for the hell of it?
I believe we’ve already discussed that Self thinks he’s losing up to 6 players from this years team. 4 of them could be perimeter players. We have a lot of wings and 1 known ball handler after this year. Sounds like we have some openings
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Grimes would start, especially if Vick goes. Need someone to get buckets/make shots. Actually this is why I’m a huge proponent of adding Carey or Locke. Not sold on Cunliffe, KJ or Garrett as great scorers. Cunliffe and KJ are chuckers and while I do actually believe Garrett can be efficient, a great team player and a distributor/creator, he doesn’t have a super great shot.
The 2nd starting guard spot is absolutely available and being sold to recruits, mainly Grimes.
I don’t think Vick and Garrett are what Self wants at the two anymore. I think he wants another player capable of actually dribbling and running the offense. An actual pg or cg if possible.
He’s after them for the halibut, actually.
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Staff wants two guards minimum, this is known information.
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@BeddieKU23 It appears Grimes is who Self covets most because he can play the 1 and 2 and back up those spots in 2018 and slide into the starting line up next to Moore and Garrett in 2019.
Vick is the question mark and why Self is staying some of these guys. Don’t expect any guards that are early commits to commit to KU other than Grimes because of Vick’s status. If it becomes obvious that Vick is staying, expect KU to back off any guard who isn’t a long term project in 2018 because of the lack of PT that will be available in 2018.
There’s no reason why Vick should leave this year based on what his anticipated role in 2018 will be, but you never know and Self is preparing for that possibility which means keeping in contact with some 2018 guards.
Self is just preparing for the worst case scenario in terms of players leaving, could be as high as 7 if we’re honest, Newman and Azubuike are assumed gone and Vick and Preston have been mentioned as possible early exits. Self is just preparing for the maximum so he doesn’t have a repeat of 2011 when he failed to prepare for the possibility of the Morris twins leaving early and he had to scramble to get some guys then.
All Self is doing is due diligence on targeting players right now to prepare for the possibility of 6 or 7 leaving when the reality is probably only 4 or 5 are gone all that’s available for 2018 is back up minutes at PG and the front court and even front court minutes are questionable to be available.
