2018 Recruiting Thread
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Really good. Big guard at 6’4 who can both run the offense and play off the ball. Not the crazy elite athlete like Wiggins or Jackson, I would say comparable to Wayne Selden.
He seems like a good kid and has a good motor on the court which I think would help him become a starter as a freshman. He’s one of the top 3 guards in the class IMO
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Quickley sets his official to Kansas for 9-1 to 9-3.
He has visits to Miami and then Kentucky where he Will commit to Calipari after.
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How many OVs can KU give? If it’s a low number this is kinda dumb.
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@BeddieKU23 Your right. - -This is just a kid filling out his officals, taking advantage of paid visits across the Nation - -why not. - - -Everyone pretty well knows he is already gift wrapped for UK - -Quickley himself hasn’t really hid it very well, another reason to set his 3rd and probably last official at Kentucky which is on the 15-17th of Sept, isn’t that right around their Big Blue Madness event?
Hell not that we have a Snowball’s chance in hell of landing either of them BUT between the two we would probably stand a better chance of landing Jahvon Quinerly then we would Quickley, and it looks like a lock now that Quinerly is headed to Arizona - - -what the hell is in the water at Arizona - -Miller is NOT that big of a Coach but yet must recruit really well. WHZ UP WITH THAT? - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t know how that works but if your the staff and one of the top point guards wants to visit I imagine its a no brainer to let him visit.
We see it as a waste and Self see’s it as an opportunity…
Anything can happen, even as unlikely as it is with what he’s said about Kentucky being his favorite.
I’m sure Quickley won’t be the only kid to visit this fall where its just a free trip
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Fair point and yeah, lots of free trips. Can’t blame kids for that.
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What’s interesting is this package deal crap Quickley and Williamson are all of a sudden talking about this past weekend. Obviously KU would love both of them and likely KU will land neither of them.
If Quickley was visiting KU, Miami and not UK and wasn’t saying UK was the favorite I’m sure we’d be sitting here feeling pretty good about our chances (like we do with Grimes for example).
Hopefully the staff did a good enough job this week with its targets.
I feel they did well catching all of Grimes games and making it known he is priority #1 at guard.
They dropped the ball on Carey after day 1 (at least from what he said and noticed). Roberts was at some of his other games but it looks like Day-2 is where KU kind of missed out when his other potential landing spots were right there.
Dotson was tracked all week and played really well. He outplayed Quinerly on Thursday. Arizona remains a real thorn in the side. He wants to visit them soon and the way he’s talking about them makes it seem KU is going to lose on him. Florida and Maryland are also involved but it seems like KU has lost its edge to Arizona yet again
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I see Vick as a starter, and our leading scorer. I see him playing the 3 with the big frontline behind him.
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Fuggin Arizona. Just coming in swiping kids. Hopefully they get Quinerly…
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Don’t buy this into the negative comments about Coach Miller, he is a very good coach that has been successful every he has coached. His brother is on his way to be even better.
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BShark said:
Fuggin Arizona. Just coming in swiping kids. Hopefully they get Quinerly…
They are now the West Coast version of Kentucky.
It’s clear they have passed KU in the pecking order for getting recruits. Unless UCLA and Oregon keep up with the recruits there really is no competition for them for West Kids etc. KU isn’t landing Cali talent consistently but we keep trying from time to time so its not like KU is threatening them for people in their backyard
From Dotson’s interview it seems Arizona is going to take one of Quinerly and Dotson… They want to run the 2 PG offense and he seems to be interested in that.
While Dotson isn’t getting the national love or attention from KU fans that some get losing on him will sting because KU has recruited him as long as anyone. I think KU hurt themselves with Dotson after taking Charlie Moore IMO. The message was come here and run point from day-1. He could still run point but with Moore… The same message is more or less being put on Grimes. If the staff continues to show Grimes as the #1 target then we might lose Dotson to Zona or Florida/Maryland.
I’ve been thinking this could be a “who will commit first type deal” and whoever holds out could look elsewhere.
So then the question I have is who’s better and more important if the likely situation is KU only signs 1 of Grimes/Dotson?
Dotson is likely a multi year starter and you can run with a Moore/Dotson combo for years.
Grimes could be a OAD or 2 and Done which would put recruiting his position in 2019 (where KU has multiple in’s back on the priority).
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Well that didn’t take long, Reggie Perry is off the board to Miss St. Ben Howland sells a pipedream again. 2 days after saying he wanted to take his time this around with his recruiting he’s off the board again. The mind of these kids is LOL
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@BeddieKU23 If I’m not mistaking isn’t the Perry kid the kid that de-committed from Arkansas? - -Stating he wanted to closer to home to his sick father?
If this is the kid I was thinking of then I’m not surprised it didn’t take him long at all. - -They listed the schools that was in on him Before he committed to Arkansas I think it was Georgia, Mississippi St & another. - -I hadn’t really given him much of any kind of thought of all about considering us. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BeddieKU23 said:
Well that didn’t take long, Reggie Perry is off the board to Miss St. Ben Howland sells a pipedream again. 2 days after saying he wanted to take his time this around with his recruiting he’s off the board again. The mind of these kids is LOL
Yeah…rofl…
Howland was probably recruiting him while committed.
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@BeddieKU23 I Think Dotson WAS sold on KU for sure at one point. Could be like you say after Moore committed had an influence, as seems about that time we started losing ground. As far as Arizona and him I think Jahvon I believe anyone who Arizona REALLY wants, which still leaves Dotson BUT having said that I do believe more likely then not we have lost him - -can’t really say to who my latest feeling is chances are good he ends up in Maryland.
Then like you say it comes down to who is the more talented. - -Me I’ve always liked Dotson from day one, but doesn’t necessarily mean he is better then Grimes. Actually feels Grimes is the better of the two - -Dotson was just my pick, don’t think you can go wrong with either that’s for sure. Sooo my landing spots are - - - -Quinerly to Arizona, - – -Dotson to Maryland - - -And we land grimes. Watch that be just the complete opposite when it happens lol, that’s why I’m not in the recruiting business lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’d love to see Grimes and Dotson as Jayhawks but that doesn’t seem super likely.
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 If I’m not mistaking isn’t the Perry kid the kid that de-committed from Arkansas? - -Stating he wanted to closer to home to his sick father?
If this is the kid I was thinking of then I’m not surprised it didn’t take him long at all. - -They listed the schools that was in on him Before he committed to Arkansas I think it was Georgia, Mississippi St & another. - -I hadn’t really given him much of any kind of thought of all about considering us. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah, he did mention KU as one of the schools that first contacted him after he went public. Other than that he did say he de-committed for his father but then also said he rushed his decision first time around so if you can believe anything its just that the mind of these kids changes with the breeze of the wind.
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 I Think Dotson WAS sold on KU for sure at one point. Could be like you say after Moore committed had an influence, as seems about that time we started losing ground. As far as Arizona and him I think Jahvon I believe anyone who Arizona REALLY wants, which still leaves Dotson BUT having said that I do believe more likely then not we have lost him - -can’t really say to who my latest feeling is chances are good he ends up in Maryland.
Then like you say it comes down to who is the more talented. - -Me I’ve always liked Dotson from day one, but doesn’t necessarily mean he is better then Grimes. Actually feels Grimes is the better of the two - -Dotson was just my pick, don’t think you can go wrong with either that’s for sure. Sooo my landing spots are - - - -Quinerly to Arizona, - – -Dotson to Maryland - - -And we land grimes. Watch that be just the complete opposite when it happens lol, that’s why I’m not in the recruiting business lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think Maryland is 4th in Dotson’s recruitment even though his AAU teammate Wiggins and friend Smith is signed to them. They have gotten into this late with Arizona and I think he wants to end up at a bigger school then Maryland. Maryland had some buzz for a few years but that has fallen off with kids going to the draft. Florida is clearly a program back on the rise and using their most recent tournament run as momentum on the recruiting trail.
I think Florida has done just as good building a relationship with him and they are closer to home then KU/Zona would be and looking over their roster they have a clear need for an elite point guard.
I think this is a KU/Zona/Florida battle. If Grimes and Quinerly both decide before Dotson, look for him to be a Gator.
I’m worried that Dotson’s talk of visiting Arizona will end his recruitment as I’m sure Miller was aware that Dotson outplayed Quinerly (who has already visited Arizona and could also visit KU in the fall). If that has any impact on how much they press for Dotson we’ve all seen the pipe-dream Sean Miller is selling lately and that kind of momentum on the recruiting trail can be infectious to kids. I’d hope Dotson takes all his officials and KU presses for either his 1st or last visit.
I’ve been pretty adamant that taking Charlie Moore would have its drawbacks to recruiting the PG position. We looked positioned to land multiple elite guard options before we took Charlie and with how kids look for the school that will offer them immediate playing time with little competition its unlikely that KU is going to convince Grimes and Dotson that playing with Charlie Moore is the best option for them.
If we did somehow land both I’d give major props to Bill Self for effectively convincing them that would work despite what’s changed, it would be how Duke/Kentucky and now how Arizona are recruiting kids without any concern of depth chart. I don’t think KU has been on that level in recent recruiting cycles especially hearing from recruits how they view KU’s depth chart as a deciding factor in their decision and overall the schools KU has been losing recruits to lately. Josh Jackson was one recent outlier but he’s was the #1 player and every coach in America is opening the red sea for that kind of talent.
I think Grimes is the better talent now but its unlikely he will be in College long enough to make the impact Dotson could make on a program. I think Dotson is that Point Guard a team builds around for 3-4 years but has limited upside for the NBA.
For KU its who pairs better with Moore and the wings we’ll likely have back. When Grimes plays like he did this past week he’s every part of the elite player he’s been touted to be and I think that separates himself from Dotson. They are different players and there are advantages to both.
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You know what’s sad?
When you have to go to the Duke page to get any KU recruiting updates!
This cannot be the best 247 can get to do KU recruiting.
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@BeddieKU23 I am having a senior moment: has a presumed OAD point guard won an NCAA title? If not, could this be why HCBS has seemingly eschewed some opportunities in elite PG recruits by taking Moore?
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@BeddieKU23 Matt sucks and is a bit of an asshat. Not a surprise to me he can’t get any good info and clearly doesn’t have a good source deep enough inside the program to hear any chatter.
He can’t even take criticism on 247 without getting all upset. Not worth the money at this point. I’ll probably drop my subscription soon unless they get someone else to partner with Matt.
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mayjay said:
@BeddieKU23 I am having a senior moment: has a presumed OAD point guard won an NCAA title? If not, could this be why HCBS has seemingly eschewed some opportunities in elite PG recruits by taking Moore?
I think it was more that Self just whiffed pretty hard on two PGs in the last class (Sexton and Young*) that the staff put the full court press on to commit. So he didn’t want to potentially get left in the lurch if he had some other tough misses. Self, like the rest of us, knows Newman is likely going pro after this year. So getting Moore on board gives the team a guard in his third season removed from HS, instead of likely having to start multiple FR or multiple players that have more of a wing skillset.
*I’m not even counting Duval.
Overall, I think it was a good move but time will tell.
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It might be time for 247 to move on and look elsewhere…
Why is it that KU can’t have a good hoops insider? Matt Scott and Shay? MEH. I used to defend MS but I really can’t anymore. He had to be goaded into posting info for his paying customers. Compare to Duke, UK, AZ sites etc… where there are regular articles…
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- Tyus Jones - National Champion
- Marquis Teague - National Champion
- Derek Rose - NC Runner up
- Brandon Knight - Final Four
- Mike Conley - NC Runner up
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@Kcmatt7 Thank you, youngster!
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@BeddieKU23 See you have good points, and that’s what I really like about this site. But for me - - I just don’t see Florida being a player in the Dotson scenario. You mention them being closer to home - well seeing he is from Carolina thee really isn’t that much difference between there and Maryland, I just can’t see it -but that’s just me. - -True he might have out played Quinerly in the camp, BUT still overall here again I think Jahvon may be better, and I still think Quinerly is the one sweat boy wants as their main priority, possibly if it comes down to it it indeed could come down to KU/Ariz - -but I just don’t see Florida in any form - -again that’s just me.
As far as Dotson and Grimes - - I would absolutely freak if we landed both. Is that going to happen I seriously doubt it. If KU lands Grimes I just don’t see Dotson coming don’t get me wrong I love Dotson I think I’ve made that pretty clear I would love to have him here, I’ve been on him from the word go But the way things are starting to shape up I just don’t feel he is coming - - -I think he lands with Coach Turgeon call me insane. Could you imagine IF we did somehow land both Quinton & Devon - - WOW that would be a sweet catch - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark I Read somewhere that shiver and Scout are probably going to combine can’t swear to it but ya Matt has gotten pretty lame - -very little new. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay You are welcome!
I do think Bill is tired of chasing OAD dreams. We just can’t land a stinking OAD PG. And I could only imagine what Bill could do with one of these 6’3 uber athlete PGs. I mean look what he did with Collins, Frank, Dee Brown and Tyshawn. The man knows how to make someone a great PG.
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Also, I think Bill has started taking Transfers as an easy way to build depth. He never plays more than 9 guys. So realistically, getting 2 or 3 each year means better use of your last couple of scholarships. At least in today’s college basketball where everyone wants playing time from day 1. He might be seeing the light before everyone else. The way to build an experienced deep team is through transfers. First of all, they have no other option. They are playing at KU for two seasons unless they go pro. In which case, that means they had a great season. Mix that in with your own 4 year guys and maybe a couple of OADs and viola, a deep team with plenty of experience.
Ok so maybe Bill wasn’t the first to think of it. But Gonzaga proved it can work… Bill just might be the first one to take notice.
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mayjay said:
@BeddieKU23 I am having a senior moment: has a presumed OAD point guard won an NCAA title? If not, could this be why HCBS has seemingly eschewed some opportunities in elite PG recruits by taking Moore?
I think Self values experience with the PG position. When you get OAD you get what roughly 8 months of stability? He’s certainly tried to get OAD talent at the PG position but when you don’t have the reputation kids look elsewhere. I think him featuring the perimeter has helped us recruit into this class and beyond. We’ll see what we get out of it. Grimes would be a homerun grab from a player who can play on/off the ball in College and transition to the modern big NBA PG.
Rarely has he had to start a freshman as PG so either he recruits to get a guy to develop behind someone or he’ll take a current option and give them a gut check and say learn to play PG for me. I think he’s done that consistently in the last 10 years or so and for the most part has had great success.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Matt sucks and is a bit of an asshat. Not a surprise to me he can’t get any good info and clearly doesn’t have a good source deep enough inside the program to hear any chatter.
He can’t even take criticism on 247 without getting all upset. Not worth the money at this point. I’ll probably drop my subscription soon unless they get someone else to partner with Matt.
I use mine for football, being a huge fan of Florida St. Its a 24/7 job for those guys, they are constantly updating fans on recruiting, the team etc so the money is well spent in that regard. It’s really pathetic that KU with a Top 5 program doesn’t have recruiting people that are connected to AAU and the team. And with how connected Duke’s guys are, odds are they are recruiting the same guys so I find myself lurking (while half the time laughing at how crazy their fans are about landing every top player in the class). I suppose the same can be said about our fans but it is funny listening to others views.
I can’t believe Matt has a job after the Trae Young recruitment. He literally lied to everyone for over a week. It was clear as day. They need to move on from him and let someone else get involved
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Malik Hall OFFERED.
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That was a good decision
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BeddieKU23 said:
That was a good decision
Agree.
Looks like KU could get involved with Noah Locke as well.
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@BeddieKU23 "When you get OAD you get what roughly 8 months of stability? "
Ironically not sarcastic!
I had a friend back in law school whose life was total drama, up and down every few weeks as she met/loved/got dumped by a new perfect guy. Several of us were really close to her, and we all spent a lot of time at the bars late at night either watching her go either gaga or bonkers every few weeks. (Call her Gertie just for fun.)
A year later, one guy who had graduated came back. He asked, “So how is Gertie? Has she stabilized?” I answered, somberly, “Well, yes, off and on.” We looked at each other, and he said, “It is tragically ironic that you were not being sarcastic!”
Incidentally, by year 3 she found for her a perfect guy and as far as I know they are together still. Past is not always prelude.
Moral: I think Self thinks that with a OAD PG there is no way for any stability in that year. There is a learning curve for his PGs almost through year 2.
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Well SVI off to a great start for his team this year, just needs to translate it to KU come our season.
Averaging 25.5 ppg in the 1st two games. Had a 25 pt game in the first game and then followed that up wit a 26 pt game to go along with 7 rebounds and 3 blocks. We need him to work his butt off for us come time our season rolls around and have a huge Senior season. - -would love to see it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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He could very well end up at any of his choices. If staying close to home is what he wants then if he picked Maryland or Florida that probably ends up being a big factor in his decision. He’s never said distance was an issue and they have consistently said relationships were key which I think KU/Florida have done the best job in doing. But the recent talk of Arizona and how they have slime’d into this makes me believe he’s looking at them hard and if he takes a visit with his family I’m worried he’ll leave there committing. Arizona is just recruiting on a different level then KU right now and this wouldn’t be the first time they have swooped in late to grab someone KU has invested a bunch of time on.
Quinerly is very good and I’ve seen some chatter that KU may get an official from him as well. These camp settings can be misleading but I think Dotson showed some things that stood out against his fellow high ranked opponent and overall over the week. He is crafty with the ball and can get to the lane and draw fouls in the manner that Frank Mason was able to consistently in his career. When he shoots the ball consistently from the perimeter he’s every part of a Top 30 player. Rankings sometimes don’t accurately get the full picture because Rankings are also meant to project not just for the College level but also the future. With Dotson I think you can see he’ll be a very good College Guard but might not be a first round type for the NBA so I think that limits how high he can be ranked. Also, I think he’s closer to reaching his potential then some other guards in this class. If KU lands him I expect he’d compete for a starting spot as a freshman because I think he’s been well coached and has the game that can immediately impact an elite team.
I think the PG class in 2018 is particularly strong this season. There are easily a dozen high level guards that can play on/off the ball and most of them project to play at least a year in College which is going to be exciting to see.
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Great story and comparison.
We have known Bill Self long enough to know what he expects from his guards. He’s tough on them and we wouldn’t expect anything less. I wonder if the OAD type wouldn’t be able to handle his “tough love”. I’d love to see a top PG come here and accept that challenge.
I also think, us fans, want stability when gushing about our roster, especially the PG position. I know that myself, I think the PG position has become even more important with how the game is evolving. I’m not sure I want to be “fishing” every spring/summer for the biggest catch at that position. We’ve had far too many successful PG’s who’ve stayed 4 years to think the OAD train would be best for Self’s system. There is no perfect model but when Self and his PG are on the same page life is easier. Frank made coaching a tad easier because he truly understood what Bill wanted from him. Whether a OAD type freshman can do the same is debatable, we’ve yet to reel in the types to find out at the position.
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@jayballer54 Thanks for unearthing these Svi stats. Have you his shooting percentages for those games?
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Here’s a name I don’t think we’ve talked about mostly because I didn’t know how much the staff has really been recruiting him with all the other targets KU has in front of him. He’s an adidas kid and has seen his stock rise a ton since the spring. Rutgers, Virginia Tech, Xavier, Missouri, Uconn, Texas A&M are also on his list right now.
6’3-6’4 guard from Maryland ranked #74 on 247… Recently cut his list to 7 with KU on it.
Here’s what he said.
He’s hearing a lot from the Jayhawks.
“They’re real good. It’s Kansas. It’s self-explanatory,” Mathis said. “They contact me almost every day, so I think I’m building a good relationship.”
He said KU assistant Norm Roberts is in regular contact.
“He said he likes my motor,” Mathis said.
He went for 25, 6 boards, 3 steals, 3 asts and is a teammate of Quickley. They took down Zion’s team.
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Duke offered Matthew Hurt… Good thing KU has plenty of other wing targets because that’s likely a wrap!
Also 2018 PF Jermaine Harris a Top 75 DMV product down to 8 and just included KU after getting offered on Monday. Decent developmental big that could be a fall back option. West Virginia has had him on campus multiple times.
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@REHawk No they didn’t break down the shooting stats that I read anyways will have to try and see if I can find. Sounds like he is doing well - -so far anyways. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I would love to land a few of these guys in the 70ish range with how our roster is set up next season. Especially if we return Preston or Doke. Or hell, if we get both back, look out.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 I would love to land a few of these guys in the 70ish range with how our roster is set up next season. Especially if we return Preston or Doke. Or hell, if we get both back, look out.
I actually think we should be looking to add as much elite talent as we can get with next years transfers.
When you talk about losing Graham, Svi and most likely Newman off the perimeter and at the minimum Whitman in the post that is a ton of experience and scoring ability leaving the team.
The balance of the team will be shifting to whoever stays (hopefully a Sr Vick and Jr Doke) to go along with the transfers and hold-overs (Garrett, Lightfoot, Cunliffe). That’s a solid 8 if Preston leaves, a solid 9 if he stays
KU could have a 3 man freshman class, carefully constructed and put an absolute stranglehold on the Big-12 and keep themselves at the front of the National Championship conversations for the next few years. The 3 I believe fit the best that KU is realistically involved with are as follows:
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Quentin Grimes- We’ve talked plenty about him plenty, mom went to KU, he’s the #1 priority at guard. Showed at the Adidas Gauntlet that he’s an elite scorer with size for either guard position. When he shoots the ball like he did in his 41 point game in front of Bill Self he’s exactly the type of guard that helps replace the production Graham/Newman/Svi are leaving behind.
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Emmitt Williams- Just one of the toughest post players in any class and maybe the most athletic player in all of High School. At 6’7 he gives up some height but makes up for it with defensive versatility, rebounding and elite athletic ability with a growing perimeter game that he’s shown off on the AAU circuit. He plays with a nasty streak on the court as if he’s mad at something and that is the sort of toughness I’d love to see KU add in the frontcourt. If KU is looking to add someone to compliment both Lawson’s old man game and Azubuike’s power and athleticism you get the best of both worlds in Williams.
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Devon Dotson- another we’ve discussed at length. Visited on his own dime during the season, is a play-making point guard, more of a traditional type PG then Grimes. I love his ability in pick and roll and he gets to the FT line at will which is a great trait to have coming into College where tight games can become all about FT shooting. He’d be the perfect compliment to Moore while grooming to be his future running mate.
Assuming both Newman and Preston are NBA bound after this year we could trot out some really exciting lineup combinations.
PG- Moore - Dotson
SG- Grimes- Garrett
SF- Vick- Cunliffe- Lawson
PF- Lawson- Williams
C- Azubuike- Lightfoot
Lots of lineup possibilities. Size, athleticism, shooting ability abundant through the roster. That’s just 11 players. Self could then add 1-2 transfer possibilities in the spring to groom for the next cycle of recruiting.
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@BeddieKU23 I feel your right about Emmit. - -I’ve noticed that same mentality that mean streak, just like he is mad at the world taking that aggression on the court.
Actually you know with that type of play who he reminds me of at least to an extent? - -You might not agree BUT I think he is a little like T- Rob in that way, T-Rob at times would just want to destroy the rim - -I remember the block he had against Mizzery at the end - - just down right mean – nasty. - -That’s what we need, some nastiness . Williams can bring that, would love to see him in a KU uni -Worried about Duke with him though - -sure he is 6’7 but plays much bigger. - -keeping fingers crossed for this one - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
That was a good decision
Agree.
Looks like KU could get involved with Noah Locke as well.
3 cb’s for KU with Locke who has interest in KU… Slater must have heard something. Not sure what that means for our other targets.
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Yeah Emmitt will be a tough pull out of Florida, as Florida, FSU, are after him. Some recent schools that offered are Oregon and. Duke will most likely be out if they land Bagley which seems to be the new latest buzz. Matt Scott for whatever its worth says there was some buzz at Peach Jam that KU could be his destination. Take that for whatever its worth.
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Matt’s scouting report on Noah Locke after watching him drop 25 on Mokan
Combo guard. Can score from multiple spots in multiple ways. Catch and shoot, off the dribble, surprising hops. Decent length. He can really move without the ball and create enough space to catch and shoot very quickly and efficiently.
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@BeddieKU23 That looks good, but I just can’t imagine landing Grimes and Dotson while having 4-5 other guards already on the roster depending on how you think KJ fits in.
