2018 NBA Draft
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KU is not only the elite school that can’t sign OAD/5-stars at 1 and 5.
It is not only the only elite school that loads up on 4-star trannies.
It is the only elite where what possible DCs we have gets undervalued.
Trump has no idea what hard is!
Self has ithard!!
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It is not only the only elite school that loads up on 4-star trannies.
trannies???…I don’t believe KU is that kind of a team…
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@jaybate-1.0 UNC had their first one and done this year since 2007. Roy goes out, and signs 4 stars all day long, and they stick around. And they win. They beat the 5 star stacks. i sometimes wonder if we’d be better off in the long run looking for that solid 4 star that will be here for years, instead of the 5 star one and done. Not getting 5 star players hasn’t seemed to hurt UNC at all.
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This is good to know. UNC under Roy has traditionally been massively STACKED for his first two rings. And his only bad season was when he wasn’t. And last season I thought he had the best and deepest talent of anyone. And he had double the 1st round DCs Self had in this last draft. Why can’t Self get the quality and depth of 4-stars you say Roy gets lately. Roy had a full rotation of legitimate D1 players last season. No projects. He didn’t have to play a 2 at the 4 like Self did. And he hasn’t stacked up with transfers has he?
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A recent (May) article on UNC recruiting.
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Interesting. I am surprised he did not use KU’s recruiting record, it would have made his argument that much stronger.
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@mayjay Please do not bring facts into this discussion. Only fiction. No malice.
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@mayjay Here’s the pull quote:
“North Carolina missed on five-star forward Kevin Knox last weekend – at which point Andrew Carter, who covers the Tar Heels for The News & Observer, detailed how Knox became the 46th top-25 recruit to reject a UNC offer in the past five recruiting cycles. In that same stretch, North Carolina has enrolled just three top-25 prospects – Isaiah Hicks, Justin Jackson and Theo Pinson.”
I wonder how many top 25 recruits we’ve signed in the past 5 years…
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@jaybate-1.0 Coach doesn’t recruit over his players for the most part. He did recruit Doke to start last year over LL, and that process was well on its way before Doke got hurt. We had no minutes to give any top flight guard- can you imagine the team turmoil if he had brought in a player that sent DG to the bench? Mutiny on the Bounty time because the team loves DG. Our big miss was Jarrett Allen. Now, putting aside Allen’s bad haircut and lamb chops, the guy would’ve been nails down low. But Allen wanted guaranteed minutes, and Bill makes his guys earn it. Several of us have openly called for Coach to recruit over a few of our “energy” guys, and he’ll recruit top 30 talent, but he’ll still play the old nag over the top 30 talent. He trusts them more.
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First, UNC HAD TWICE AS MANY 1st round draft choices (2 vs. 1) as KU in the most recent draft, so their recruiting failures likely occurred from a significantly HIGHER starting average rate of recruiting success, right?
Second, surely it’s reasonable to infer that whatever recruiting failures UNC has had have been attributable to: a.) Roy Struggling healthwise for a couple of years; and b.) Easy Classgate penalty fears. Even the dump truck dispatchers had to have noticed that!!
By contrast, Self has been healthy as a horse and KU clean as a whistle, so there is little, or no, comparison between the apparent drivers of recent recruiting asymmetry in either case.
Third, by omission, this CBS link tempts one to forget easy class gate, as well as ignore the conspicuous convergence of:
1.) UNC’s new March Carney ring;
2.) the new UNC MEGA AIR JORDAN AKA NIKE contract; and
3.) the apparent Justice deferred is justice denied findings so far about easy class gate.
Because of the above, I am inclined to discount the relevance of UNC’s SUCKcess of late despite its “recruiting failures.”
UNC had the most pieces of any team (or at least as many as) competing in the March Carney last year. They had full rotations of credible D1 talent outside and inside even in the time of their supposed recruiting failures!!!
Sheesh! I would gladly have traded KU’s roster last season for UNC’s, as far as talent goes, even with Josh on our roster. He was an exceptional player, but Self just didn’t have enough good front court players and wound up having to play a shooting guard (Josh) at the 4.
I would always rather have a team with all the pieces than a team with the best player and crucial pieces missing; that’s just basketball common sense
Bottom line: KU should be so lucky to have UNC’s recruiting woes!
And starting shortly, what with the new Carney ring, Roy’s miraculously restored health, and the new fat AirJordan contract, the dump trucks will likely be rolling unlimited into Chapel Heel once again. Duke should be very afraid! The dispatcher, who ever it may be, has a history stacking asymmetry.
P.S.: it’s been increasingly conspicuous to watch Roy’s health track down as EASY CLASS GATE worsened and get better as the scandal diffused into justice deferred and possible justice denied? I wonder if it might worsen, if the scandal were to take another turn for the worse?
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In retrospect LA should have traded down to the 4 and taken Ball there if they could get Phoenix to bite. Suns probably still would have taken Josh at the 2 spot and may have taken the trade had they not known the Celts would take Tatum.
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Maybe the fact that that trade didn’t happen supports the possibility that Josh and Phoenix had an understanding prior to his canceling the Celtics workout.
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That is how I’m viewing it as well. I think Jackson and his agent had the Suns word if he fell to 4 and they made it happen. While he loses out on some money as well as landing on a Eastern Conference contender he might end up in the best situation for himself in Phoenix.
As I said before I think we are seeing how much power Agents/players have over teams. The Celtics didn’t need a personal workout from Jackson to draft him nor did the Sixers or Celtics need one from Ball but yet each manipulated their own situations to go where they wanted to go.
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Also, on the flipside, maybe LA saw Josh as a threat and wanted him in the East, hoping Boston would take him.
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approxinfinity said:
In retrospect LA should have traded down to the 4 and taken Ball there if they could get Phoenix to bite. Suns probably still would have taken Josh at the 2 spot and may have taken the trade had they not known the Celts would take Tatum.
Why would the Lakers trade down though? The Celtics were actively fielding offers for the #3 pick and someone could’ve taken Ball at 3 in that scenario and the Lakers would be stuck with someone they didn’t want or forced to trade down.
Lakers and Suns swapping picks really didn’t make sense for either team.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t see where they were shopping the #3 pick. If that’s true then you’re right.
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approxinfinity said:
Also, on the flipside, maybe LA saw Josh as a threat and wanted him in the East, hoping Boston would take him.
There was a period where it seemed Josh had a great chance of ending up in LA. Maybe that was a smoke screen all along but he was one of what 3 guys who got a 2nd workout? Fox and Ball being the others. When Ball got the last 2nd workout that seemed telling and then the trade of Russell just made it easy to fill in the blank.
There could have been some resistance for Josh going to Boston because Danny Ainge is so unpredictable and the pick whether it was #1 or #3 was open for trade the entire time. I don’t believe the Celtics wanted to draft a wing all along and there is no guarantee Tatum makes it the whole summer as a Celtic as they continue to test the market for big name free agents. With multiple wings on the roster already I can see Tatum being moved for a bigger piece.
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@approxinfinity That’s part of why Josh canceled the workout was because it wasn’t certain Boston was keeping that pick. Ainge is always looking to acquire picks so I’m sure he was at least listening to offers.
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I think @approxinfinity and @BeddieKU23 are right. There is certainly a lot if information out there to suggest that JJ passed on the workout with the Celtics because he wanted to go to Phoenix; even some claims that Phoenix acted improperly in perhaps working with JJ ahead of time. Makes sense to try to “engineer” – a word used a lot around her – his landing spot. Better climate to be sure.
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I am still not impressed withe Lonzo Ball. While he is an above average passer, other parts of his game are below average; his defense is below average and his shot will get blocked often by athletic defenders that will not give him the room he had in college. I don’t see him as a future superstar but only journeyman player in the NBA. Of course I could be wrong…I did not think Curry was going to be a superstar either.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think a lot is going to depend on who he is surrounded by after this season.
Do PG and LeBron end up going to LA? Does he pick up on their work ethic? Can he adjust his shot? Are his defensive issues mental, or physical? Can he handle the ball well enough to play PG in the NBA? Does he have that special adrenaline pump that makes great players stand out when it matters most?
There are just so many unanswered questions with him.
On the other side, he has unlimited minutes next year to learn. He has what seems to be an up and coming coach. And, now he gets to be mentored by the great Magic Johnson. If he is going to be a huge success, he most certainly couldn’t be in a better place.
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Huge point about Ball that you made. I do think it all depends on who is around him.
Was he worth the #2 pick if he’s not good enough to be a stand alone talent? Maybe its too early to tell. He is a gifted passer (possibly in the mold of Jason Kidd) and has overcome any criticism thrown his way so far but I do think the NBA will be a much different environment for him to try and succeed in. His father’s antics have made it even harder now. Vets are going to go after him in spite of who his dad is.
Should be a very exciting season watching these rookies grow.
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Ball is a pass first PG. He’s a great passer because he has well above average court vision.
Because he is such an adept passer, he needs to be surrounded with shooters and rolling big men. Everything else will fall into place around him. If he can learn a defensive scheme (he’s a decent athlete, so even if he’s a below average individual defender, if he stays system true, he will be okay) he could be a near all star. He will hit threes because he has great range and will hit when he’s open. Otherwise, he will pass and other guys will make shots.
He will never be a dynamic scorer, but I could definitely see 16 points, 10 assists and 5 rebounds from him, while shooting 40%+ from three. Surround him with the right shooters and scorers, and you could mix up a championship caliber team.
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The question I have still is; was Ball worth the 2nd pick if he’s never going to be a dynamic scorer?
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BeddieKU23 said:
The question I have still is; was Ball worth the 2nd pick if he’s never going to be a dynamic scorer?
Yes, if they assemble the right team around him and end up winning a title or two. No, if someone behind him ends up being a franchise changing player like MJ and LA goes hungry.
The jury is always out on draft picks.
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@BeddieKU23 The comparison player for Ball is Jason Kidd and if that’s what the Lakers get out of ball, they’ll take that in a heartbeat.
Lonzo is the one person in that family I’m not concerned with at all. LeMelo is the kid I would stay away from because he seems to have Lavar’s personality based on what I’ve seen of him including the wrestling segment he was on last night with Lavar and Lonzo where Lavar took his shirt off.
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So far Lonzo has been mostly hype. Remember when daddy Ball predicted he would lead UCLA to the national title? Well, that did not happen. Conference? Nope, finished third. Conference Tournament? Nope, schooled by Arizona. NCAA? Nope, schooled by Kentucky in the Sweet sixteen and then daddy Ball blamed the loss on “white players”…who is daddy Ball going to blame when he is schooled in the NBA? Keep in mind that UCLA had a loaded team with 4 players selected in the draft, 2 in the first round and yet the team lead by Ball underachieved.
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True, the jury is out on draft picks. I have similar questions about Fultz and Tatum who went #1 and #3.
I liked Ball coming out of HS and for the most part I thought he was very good at UCLA. I try not to let what his father has done ruin my judgement of Lonzo but I do admit its hard to imagine his father is going to fade away from the limelight now that he’s gotten himself front and center. Having said that, Lonzo did/does have the one trait that surpassed all other draftee’s in that he really has the ability to make those around him better. Very unselfish player on the court and the move to the NBA should actually benefit him in many aspects.
The reason I question picking him so high is if his potential is Jason Kidd or a pass first PG with some offense I’m not sure the Lakers made the best move in my opinion. If he ends up an All-Star, or LA can surround him with good enough players where Lonzo has the ability to elevate everyone’s game and become the floor leader the Lakers have missed for years then picking him 2nd becomes a bargain.
How long will the Lakers be willing to wait on Lonzo is the question? Immense pressure to succeed right off the bat has already been placed on his shoulders by Magic. They did, just trade Russell who they picked in the Top 5 2 years ago and dumped him away to the lonely Nets so we know the recent track record for the Lakers waiting on guys is not reality.
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I can only suspect that if Ball doesn’t get the Lakers into a Finals within 3 years, Daddy-dumb-dumb will publicly point at Magic. He will thereupon learn that Magic is one of those guys Jim Croce sang about on whose cape you don’t tug.
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Lavar Ball was even too much for fake wrestling. They cut away early and had to issue an apology for his use of racial slang.
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dylans said:
Lavar Ball was even too much for fake wrestling. They cut away early and had to issue an apology for his use of racial slang.
His youngest son I believe was the one using the slang.
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When a clown is even too much for wrestling where does he go next? The Ringling Bros., Barnum and Bailey is not around anymore.
BBB - Barnum, Bailey and Ball has a nice ring to it.
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I agree with @mayjay that with the right group around him, yes, he was worth it. This draft class was very good, but the downside is that there wasn’t one absolute franchise carrying player in the group. There wasn’t a Lebron or Durant or someone on that level. There were a lot of guys just a notch below - but none that were on that elite level.
Because of that, every draftee is going to be successful, depending on the situation. If Fultz, or Jackson or anyone else in the lottery. Justin Patton, for instance, could end up being very successful by teaming with a team that won’t put a ton of pressure on him, but will still get him playing time to develop in Minnesota. Jayson Tatum might struggle to find minutes on the Celtics. Injuries could derail anyone.
If the Lakers build around Ball correctly (shooters, an elite scorer and a good rolling big - Paul George, DeAndre Jordan and JJ Redick could work in those roles) he will succeed because his best skill is passing. If the Lakers try to turn him into John Wall or Isaiah Thomas, he will fail because he’s not a primary scorer.
