Dotson or Doke or both?

  • Dotsons name has come up a couple of times for NPOY and B12 POY. But I don’t feel like many are considering Doke for either award and that bothers me. I believe he’s averaging 15 and 12 in conference play and has flat out dominated on several occasions. Anthony Davis POY stats are almost identical and I felt Trob was cheated that year(every stat better but blocks). I think they both should be all Americans at this point. But what is everyone’s take on the POY both National and B12?

  • Doke has improved more than any other player in his time at KU, imo. I’m so impressed w/his footwork and his rim protection. He can block to himself better. Even dribble a little! He’s going to leave a huge hole. Just think he’s been injured so much of his career! I can’t imagine to come over here, so young, and have the discipline to change your body and rehab injuries and probably be pretty homesick. I’ve heard him say ochs dad, I believe made him some food from dokes home. I’d contribute a lot of his success to our program and the players too. I also know dokes faith is pretty strong so sometimes he probably doesn’t fit in. Just super proud of him!❤💙 senior pm will be sad for me!

  • @Crimsonorblue22 I’ve heard the same, Ochai’s dad Olofu, is also from Nigeria like Doke. I here the Agbaji family travels over there from time to time. Does anyone know where Dokes mom is? I thought she moved to the states with him but haven’t heard of her around town.

  • We survived a game without Devon; not sure we could survive one without Doke.

  • Hopefully we will see similar improvements in McCormick as we have seen in Doke.

  • Who (other than Doke) do we credit for this remarkable transformation? Is this Hudy’s work?

  • @bskeet I don’t think so, I think doke did a lot in the off season. He did a lot of running. The new guy I’m sure is maintaining him.

  • @kjayhawks

    I think Dotson has more name recognition at this point which could be why he’s getting more love. This is a wide open race since I don’t think any of the top teams have a standout player in the media. No Zion to gush over. I think Doke helped himself tremendously on Saturday.

    I think right now Obi Toppin & Luke Garza are probably the Top 2. They have both been outstanding.

    What may be more criminal is the fact KU has two top players that could be First Team All-American and may only get 1 due to them being on the same team… It’s really rare the voters put two on the first team.

    Dotson, Doke, Garza, Toppin, Marcus Howard, Malachi Flynn, Payton Pritchard and maybe a few others seem like the most likely candidates at this point.

  • I don’t know how someone could keep Doke off that list if he keeps this up. He’s just having MONSTER games right now.

  • @benshawks08 said in Dotson or Doke or both?:

    I don’t know how someone could keep Doke off that list if he keeps this up. He’s just having MONSTER games right now.

    MONSTER - - - -say it gain – -MONSTER GAMES - -we rollin

  • I read over on the other site that I think it was the OSU coach who said KU will win the NC if Doke can shoot FT’s like he did last night.

  • Both honestly? Doke might be more important to the team because I think Garrett is a more competent back-up for Dotson than McCormack is for Udoka. And Doke takes us from being good to being elite. But I think Dotson has had a slightly better statistical season and is more likely to win the awards.

  • Doke is trending upward, though. He’s now averaging a double-double with a PER of 30.7, a defensive rating of 81.9, and a win share total of 5.0. Compare that to Luka Garza (who would probably get my vote for NPOY currently) who has a PER of 35.6, a defensive rating of 98.7, and a win share total of 5.4, Vernon Carey Jr. who has a PER of 34.3, a defensive rating of 86.5, and a win share total of 4.9, and Nick Richards who has a PER of 26.4, a defensive rating of 94.3, and a win share total of 4.7. Doke has the best defense by far of any of those bigs, is second in win shares, and is third in PER. His defense has been pretty underrated this season. Doke should be an All American at this point. If he keeps having 20/15 games, he might end up on the 1st team.

    Right now my 1st team would be Garza, Toppin, Flynn, Pritchard, and Dotson.

  • Doke will probably get shut out of individual awards because of Dotson and Garrett winning the B12 POY and DPOY awards. Garza from Iowa is probably going to get the 1st team All-American nod over Doke with Doke getting a 2nd team nod.

    Despite Dotson being the better player of the two, Doke is absolutely the more valuable player to KU.

  • Devon Dotson needs 49 points to become the first Sophomore to reach 1,000 career points under Bill Self. If he stayed 4 years there’s no telling how high he would be on that list…

  • @BeddieKU23 u r our designated record keep! Dokes % and his dunks, now dots pts, anything else? Selfs wins? Think dot is gone, NO MATTER WHAT?😢 I know

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Since you mentioned…

    Doke has 94 dunks (dunk %, 93%) 94/101.

    Obi Toppin of Dayton passed him over the weekend and has 96 dunks.

    Doke needs 7 dunks to tie and 8 to break the overall record.


    Only player in D1 with 450 pts, 100 rebounds, 100 assists, 50 steals. I think this stat was mentioned already before a week or two ago…

    Bill Self-

    20-7 at KU vs Top 5 teams. Pretty good record!

  • @BeddieKU23 good job! A+

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Additional nugget.

    If KU wins its next two conference games it will be the best record under Self in conference play at 17-1. Only once has KU finished the regular season with 1 conference loss (09-10) and that was when it was a 16 game schedule.

  • Recent movement for Mock NBA Draft’s. has Dotson 26th & Azubuike 32nd (overall) and has them both going at the end of the 1st round.

    ESPN has updated their Top 100 board again.

    Dotson is 32nd- his highest position so far

    Doke is 33rd- meteoric rise for him after being in the 80’s (also a previous best)

    Looks like the strong play of this duo is starting to get noticed positively

    Agbaji down to 79th

  • @BeddieKU23 man, I would be ssooo happy for dok if he went in the first round.

  • @BShark he deserves it!

  • @BShark I think he has a real shot at it.

  • Doke & Dotson are National Semifinalist for the Naismith Trophy

  • @BShark said in Dotson or Doke or both?:

    @BeddieKU23 man, I would be ssooo happy for dok if he went in the first round.

    Me too. I want to see both go in the 1st round. Didn’t think either one of them could do it, to be honest, but if wrong (and as I’ve said on numerous occasions, “it wouldn’t be my first”) I will be happy to have been so.

  • I guess one of the reasons that I thought that Dot wouldn’t be taken in the first round is how mistakenly low Graham was taken in the draft - and that was after 4 stellar seasons, and he has height. One thing that I did get right though is when I said that Kemba going to Boston will only help Graham.

  • ESPN updated Mock Draft has Doke and Dotson the first two picks of the 2nd round!

    31.Mavericks (via Warriors)

    Udoka Azubuike | Kansas | C | Age: 20.5

    32.Hornets (via Cavaliers)

    Devon Dotson | Kansas | PG | Age: 20.6

  • Not good for Dotson to go to Graham’s team if he wants a chance to get a big role…

  • @BeddieKU23 I saw another one that had them last two of the first round.

  • @wissox

    The biggest takeaway I’m seeing at this point is Doke went from undrafted to likely drafted. Big change from beginning of the season.

    Dotson also improved his stock from mid-season on.

  • So happy for Udoka.

  • I didn’t watch pro ball at all this year, who is Devonte’s backup now and could dotson beat him out? Hell here i sit in Charlotte where I had planned to catch a game or two! Poor damn timing on this job dang it.

  • Should see an announcement from Dot soon, very soon.

  • @Kubie I don’t think he could beat dtae out. He was lights out from 3.

  • Will miss u Dot. He’s in a weird spot. Unless you can dunk and/or shoot 40% from 3 the NBA really doesn’t want you. It’s becoming a specialists’ league and Dot isn’t one.

  • @FarmerJayhawk I agree, but their is always a catch 22. I believe this years class is one of the weakest in memory. With NBA guaranteeing a 3 year contract with a first round selection, I can’t fault him if he can go in the first. I personally don’t see him increasing his stock because of his size. Frank Mason, Sherron Collins, Devonte Graham and guys like Marcus Paige, heck even Jacob Pullen all shot the ball better from distance (all smaller guards) and we’re as good or better depending on whom you ask. They all are second rounders or undrafted. If next years class is better, hard to see him moving up any. Doesn’t mean he can’t make it, Im shocked Van Vleet from WSU has had his success. You have to go to a good organization in the league right now to succeed in most cases.

  • @FarmerJayhawk do you think Dot is quick enough to be elite as a fast break guy? He definitely needs other skills to stick, but I consider him elite in that dept at a college level. Not sure if it translates to elite at NBA level or not.

  • Dotson is the type of player the G-League was intended for. He does have an elite level ability in his speed and quickness, but still needs a lot of refinement in his game. I would expect Dotson to spend a lot of time down there in his first couple of seasons and if he develops down there, he could become a very valuable asset in the NBA, if not it’s off to overseas for a decade plus long career playing in different international leagues.

  • @approxinfinity said in Dotson or Doke or both?:

    @FarmerJayhawk do you think Dot is quick enough to be elite as a fast break guy? He definitely needs other skills to stick, but I consider him elite in that dept at a college level. Not sure if it translates to elite at NBA level or not.

    For sure. That’s his one real skill he can fall back on. But he’s also not a good distributor on the break because he’s been able to blow by 99% of guys until now.

  • @FarmerJayhawk that’s his Achilles, not a great passer or shooter. If he gets picked in the first round he atleast won’t be paid like a G leaguer.

  • @BShark said in Dotson or Doke or both?:

    Should see an announcement from Dot soon, very soon.

    I missed the mark on this. Heard yesterday.

  • Hopefully it works out for Dot, sad he didn’t get a chance to win several awards both individually and as a team mate this March.

  • @FarmerJayhawk happy for him, but always sad to see a great kid leave😢

  • Okay so I wasn’t that far off. Happy trails Dot.

  • You will always be a hawk Devon. You exceeded even my most optimistic dreams when he signed. Truly one of the best guards Self has had. I really wish we had 2 more years he would be even more of a legend.

    Thanks for the memories

  • Dam Devon , sad to see you go young man , but happy and wishing you the best in your future.

    You seem like nothing but class and always respectful for others. You just got to work buddy , put in the time.

    Wish I could say I feel confident on your odds about sticking in the NBA. Yet I can’t , really good College player, but like so many other really good College players - - HUGE step up from College to the NBA. Have no doubt you will succeed in the end oversea’s make some money.

    The NBA gave you the input in what you needed to improve on and as much as I love you as a Jayhawk and really personable young man – I just don’t see where that big of improvement was made. - -they questioned your outside shot, I can’t honestly say where that shot was improved OR at least enough. I think you pct hoovered right about the same if not even a tad bit worse. - -Taking care of the ball , not sure how that went but seemed like there were some fairly frequent times with loose handles - -that’s not gonna cut it in the NBA.

    Your a great kid, you might spend some time in the G league yet I just don’t see you at this point and time where you can make a stick on a roster, afraid your just going to slide around in the muck in the G league. - -Absolutely LOVE your quickness, but you can’t make a living off lay ups in the NBA lots of really quick guys in the NBA. - -doesn’t matter , in the end , you’ll end up a winner - - you ARE a winner major props to you just as a person - - nothing but class as far as I can see young man - -nothing but the best for you - you will truly be missed in Jayhawk Nation. - -thank you for these two years, you end your career as a CHAMPION – - -GOD Speed ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • Devon needs to be prepared to spend a lot of his first couple of seasons down in the G-League. His speed and athleticism are elite even at the NBA level so that alone will intrigue franchises and buy him some time to develop.

    I know quite a few of people have said he needs to work on his shooting, and he does, but that’s not what will get him to stick in the NBA.

    There’s two areas that he can develop and become a 12 year NBA player. His passing and his defense. Dotson needs to become a floor general. If he can get himself to a 3:1 or even 4:1 Assist/Turnover ratio, Dotson will be a highly sought after player. Dotson’s quickness also means he has the potential to develop into an elite level defender in the Pat Beverly territory.

    In a stronger draft class, I would say it’d be more advisable for someone like Dotson to return, but as weak as this class is, Dotson’s stock is as high as it will get for the NBA so leaving this year makes the most sense for him.

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