More than we can BEARS...
-
@nuleafjhawk Does he really ever get as much talent in Waco as we sometimes think? I don’t remember any top 10 recruiting classes.
-
@dylans Maybe not great “classes”, but he’s had some outstanding individual players over the years.
-
@dylans Does anyone think Bruce Weber is a great, great coach? But - K State won the Big 12 last year…
-
@nuleafjhawk No I don’t think Weber is great, but KU also fielded a team last year that nearly made me quit watching basketball with its apathetic play.
This year KU has a very good team and Baylor is giving them a run for their money. (Head to head win in Allen and they beat Nova while KU melted down in the final seconds and lost in a puddle of pee) I think KU wins Saturday and ultimately proves to be the better team, but Baylor is final four caliber. I don’t think Drew is on Self’s level, but why does the thought of him being decent offend you so? It’s great to get challenged from within the conference. Especially if it’s top heavy - think of a normal ACC year.
The current Baylor roster has 2 guys ESPN rated as high as an 83 score. KU has 7 guys rated 83 or higher. The 83s are Enaruna and Lightfoot. Meaning those would be Baylor’s best recruits. Wilson was an 85, better talent than any Baylor player. Most of those guys wouldn’t even see the floor for KU.
Please don’t make me defend Drewsh, but saying he’s a bad coach given what he’s doing this season isn’t a hill I’d die on.
-
@dylans What makes you think Drew offends me? I just don’t think he’s a good coach. That’s not a sin. He’s proved it to me for a long time now.
He DID win a conference championship !! With Valparaiso. Seventeen years ago.
His Baylor resume? Barely over .600 winning percent. Meh.
Conference Championships - ZERO. Meh.
Final Four Appearances - ZERO. Meh.
I don’t hate the guy. He’s not Gregg Marshall. I just don’t think he’s a good coach. The statistics back me up. Yes, he’s having a good year. Finally.
I don’t even have to compare him to Self, that wouldn’t be fair. Nobody else is Bill Self. Compare Drew to almost any other coach in the league. He doesn’t stack up. That doesn’t mean he offends me.
-
@nuleafjhawk probably because you come out swinging every time his name is brought up. Comparing him to Weber is some vitriol. I haven’t historically thought much of the guy myself, but the last two years he’s fielded good teams. Good teams built from nothing recruits that somehow KU fans end up drooling over at some point. It’s weird is all.
-
What gets me going about Drew is how ESPN views him. They (I forgot who exactly) said that he’s the best at rebuilding a program with how well Baylor is doing this year. I’m sorry but if it took a “great” coach 17 years to reach this point, is he that great?
That being said I do think that Baylor is the real deal this year and IMO are a close second to KU to win it all.
-
@dylans Well, I’ve always respected you here. Again, I guess we all have our own opinions. I don’t hate the guy, I just don’t get why, after 17 years everyone thinks he’s a top flight coach. My opinion.
-
That seems a bit harsh but its your opinion to have. I think his biggest weakness over the years has been big games (especially against KU in conference & in the Tournament).
Something changed this year though. Switched to M2M defense from his exotic zone to match the personnel. He made a change that benefited the team.
He hit home-runs on the transfer market in Teague/Mitchell and got extremely lucky Jared Butler backed out of his commitment to Alabama in the spring. Those guys have developed a great deal under Drew’s watch.
The big thing with this roster is almost everyone in the lineup has had the benefit of a red-shirt year which is something Drew loves to do. It’s an old team. Maybe Freddie Gillespie was always destined to be this good but his story is pretty unique- started at D3, walked on at Baylor, earned a scholarship and now starts and is an integral part of their success. I’ll give credit where it’s due, Drew has hit it rich this year
-
@BeddieKU23 OK. Here’s the deal. I’m seriously confused.
How is it harsh to think that a guy with those stats is not a good coach? Would you be super stoked to have him at KU for 17 years with those stats?
I already know the answer is NO. You would be fit to be tied (whatever that means).
It’s not harsh to look at a sheet of statistics and say “Hmmm - this dude is not a good coach”.
I didn’t say he was a wife beater, a child molester, a bad neighbor or that he steals from the offering plate at church. Just that, based on 540+ games of history - he’s not a great coach.
-
Nice little article from Dennis Dodd of all people who got some good quotes from Self.
One thing that stood out to me is that he is 100% placing the blame from Late Night at the feet of Long.
-
@nuleafjhawk No disrespect meant, yours is a common opinion and one you seem entrenched in. I just don’t know if it’s 100% deserved. Any success at Baylor is harder to come by than at a blue blood. As far as Drew goes I don’t believe he has star potential Beard does. If Scott Drew can sustain his current level of success without a big drop off he may prove me wrong on that front.
-
Then I guess I do think labeling him “not a good coach” a harsh statement. What’s your definition of a good coach? I generally have no idea since it seems to be a moving target for everyone. Again your opinion to have, wasn’t bagging on you about it, just found it interesting.
Things to consider:
He’s the winningest coach in Baylor History and has more NCAA tournament appearances then any predecessor combined, Baylor Basketball has been around over 100 years.
They have only been to 1 championship game in their history, 72 years ago. He’s taken them to the Sweet 16/Elite 8 4 times. Baylor Basketball doesn’t have the rich history KU has and I think that has to be taken into account that Drew has elevated the program to its current status because nobody else did before. I’m in no way advocating for Drew and Baylor just adding perspective
-
Scott Drew is a good coach. He has a .603 career winning percentage at Baylor, including those first 3 years when he was dealing with the aftermath of the Dave Bliss scandal. In Drew’s third season at Baylor, they were banned from playing a non-conference schedule because of that fallout. Year 4 is when Drew started to have any hope of success at Baylor because that’s when harshest sanctions were over with and he could begin actually building a program.
Most programs would be thrilled with a coach that makes the NCAA tournament essentially 70% of the time.
Scott Drew wouldn’t be near the top of my wishlist for Self replacement’s, but there’s also plenty of worse options out there. I would consider him to be in the 20-25 range for top coaches. He’s definitely not an elite coach because the consistency isn’t there, but he’s by no means a bad coach.
-
Scott Drew is a good coach who has succeeded in what anyone would have thought was an impossible situation.
To pretend it’s anything else is being disingenuous at best.
-
@dylans said in More than we can BEARS...:
@nuleafjhawk No disrespect meant, yours is a common opinion and one you seem entrenched in. I just don’t know if it’s 100% deserved. Any success at Baylor is harder to come by than at a blue blood. As far as Drew goes I don’t believe he has star potential Beard does. If Scott Drew can sustain his current level of success without a big drop off he may prove me wrong on that front.
His team might be really good next year as well.
If Butler/Teague/Mitchell return - that’s crazy. Vital, Mayer & Thamba as well from current roster
They have two transfers sitting this year, one a high scoring guard in the mold of Teague & a big they are high on.
They signed 3 Top 100 kids as well and redshirted a 3 star Small Forward. Drew looks to be positioning for a multi year run
-
Sorry @nuleafjhawk I didn’t mean to turn this into a Scott Drew lovefest. Lol I was just surprised at your position this season. Most years I wouldn’t argue with you one bit.
-
Agree he’s having an “outlier” year. I don’t think its a lovefest by any means but we can give respect where its due. He did come into Allen Fieldhouse and beat us down pretty good. Tomorrow we can return the favor
-
@BeddieKU23 …well from me…that’s by far the most nice things I’ve said about Drew.
-
@dylans I guess it’s like when my wife says “Do these jeans make my butt look big?” and I say “No, it’s the other way around”.
I don’t mean anything by it - just an observation.
I will give him credit for this year - he’s obviously having a great season. I just don’t see him as a great coach for the long haul.
Oh yeah - the jeans comment never happened or i wouldn’t be able to type.
-
I have noticed from watching them a lot this year, there’s an ast coach that seems to do an awful lot of talking to the players and Drew during the TO’s.
-
@nuleafjhawk I didn’t say that he was a great, great coach.
-
@Marco It doesn’t matter. If you like him, great. I don’t - that should be great too. I mean, we could all have this debate about Bruce Weber - in my opinion a so-so coach (at best) but since he has a Big 12 Conference Championship under his belt, some folks might think he’s a great coach.
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
@BeddieKU23 OK. Here’s the deal. I’m seriously confused.
How is it harsh to think that a guy with those stats is not a good coach? Would you be super stoked to have him at KU for 17 years with those stats?
I already know the answer is NO. You would be fit to be tied (whatever that means).
It’s not harsh to look at a sheet of statistics and say “Hmmm - this dude is not a good coach”. woke I didn’t say he was a wife beater, a child molester, a bad neighbor or that he steals from the offering plate at church. Just that, based on 540+ games of history - he’s not a great coach.
What did Baylor do in basketball before Drew? 17 years he has coached there, how many NCAA tournaments? How many before he came?
-
@nuleafjhawk I didn’t say that I like him.
-
@nuleafjhawk I’d take Drew over Weber any day of the week.
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
@dylans I guess it’s like when my wife says “Do these jeans make my butt look big?” and I say “No, it’s the other way around”.
I don’t mean anything by it - just an observation.
I will give him credit for this year - he’s obviously having a great season. I just don’t see him as a great coach for the long haul.
Oh yeah - the jeans comment never happened or i wouldn’t be able to type.
Look at it this way in 17 years of Coaching respective teams. - - - Coach Self ONE National Championship - - Coach Drew ZERO. - -that’s not much to say he is not a Good Coach.
I don’t need to hear well Coach Self has gotten further , more elite 8’s - - more final fours. in that length of time. So just because Coach Self has made Elite8’s/final 4’s he is better, well he is better but does that mean Drew is NOT a good Coach ? - - umm no. - -so let me ask you who is the bigger failure? - - Self Or Drew ? - - Who has had way more OAD’S ? - - ranked top 20 players in the Nation ? - answer ? - - So who is the bigger failure with what they have had to work with? How about our early exits we have had? - -Does that mean Coach Self is a bad Coach ? - - umm NO and neither is Drew
-
Drew does have more losses at AfH than coach Self, right?
-
Was just listening to our local daily sports program and they were talking to the Voice of the Baylor Bears , and of course the FIRST question was asked will Marcio Teague gonna play because of his hand ? - -Of Course he said he had no idea, that they had just talked to Drew and he still says that it will be a game time decision?
Who here seriously believes that there is no chance that Teague plays? - let’s be honest here ok? - -You know it - -I know it - - we all know it. There is n way in hell he is not playing tomorrow. The guy said if it was his non-shooting hand he would have a better chance of playing - - saying he will dress go through pre-game workout and just have to see - - umm BS
Saying this is probably the biggest game in Baylor Basketball history. Was asked IF Baylor had a weakness , what would that weakness be? - - The answer ? - -they said if they had to pick one it would probably be the lack on consistent shooting That they have had times where the ball just isn’t falling , problems scoring, but their defense has been so good that they have been able to get away with it. - -We shall see tomorrow I reckon. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@jayballer73 When Drew has FOURTEEN CONSECUTIVE BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIPS I will consider your point
-
@Marco Me too! But if, God forbid, Bill Self …i don’t know - keeled over or picked up and headed for Madagascar today - would you want Scott Drew as your coach? That’s ALL I’m saying.
-
The Baylor guy /the voice of the Baylor bears said that turnovers played a big part in the last game against KU. - - He said if he remembered right Baylor only had 5 turnovers and said if you only turn the ball over 5 times for the game , any team should be in really good shape – and that KU had like 14. - - We just got to take better care of the ball, I think we keep those in check - - hit a moderate number of 3’s we should be in good shape - some where from 6-7 3’swould be nice
-
@Crimsonorblue22 That used to be true when KU had only 9 losses under Self in 2017 and Baylor’s loss to KU that year put Drew’s number of losses in Allen at 10. So since Baylor lost at Allen in 2018 and 2019, Drew’s number of losses would be 12. Self now has now has 13 I think. But Self’s winning percentage in Allen far exceeds Drew’s!
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
@jayballer73 When Drew has FOURTEEN CONSECUTIVE BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIPS I will consider your point
Great - - so your a guy that Settles? lmao you have good luck with that. - -With the players Coach Self has had - -he best be winning something.
I know your not that foolish to even BEGIN to try and compare players that Coach Self has had compared to what Drew has had, I know your not that slow. - You would lose that discussion EVERY SINGLE TIME HANDS DOWN.
It’s ok like Beddie said it’s ok to give some credit where Credit is due - -and Drew deserves credit it’s OK but to say he is a bad Coach is just not true
-
@jayballer73 I must be that slow. I don’t understand any of your jibberish. How in the world did you come up with “so you’re a guy that settles?” What is that? Where did it come from?
If I was a guy that settles, I’d be super duper happy with a Scott Drew .603 No Conference Championship, No Final Fours kind of coach.
I’m the exact opposite of a guy that settles. You can do better.
-
@bcjayhawk thx!
-
@jayballer73 everyone Is entitled to their own opinion!
-
That new mute feature makes this board 10x better. I can tell
-
@Kcmatt7 ? Nothing nasty or personal here, just a difference of opinions. I think all is well…
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
@jayballer73 I must be that slow. I don’t understand any of your jibberish. How in the world did you come up with “so you’re a guy that settles?” What is that? Where did it come from?
If I was a guy that settles, I’d be super duper happy with a Scott Drew .603 No Conference Championship, No Final Fours kind of coach.
I’m the exact opposite of a guy that settles. You can do better.
Your so quick to point out 14 CONFERENCES championships? - - Awesome, so that’s what the players set their goal for, as a season Goal hug? - -14 conference championships? Screw the NCAA title right? - and how many of those do we have under Self again? - let me tell you - - ONE.
Players coaches don’t start the season with your train of thought and say - -well ok we win the Conference - -we good. - Not is really so hard to understand about that
You keep wanna throwing up crap about Drew not having any final fours - -super, again let me say with the amount of talent we have had most people would think we should of really done better wouldn’t you think? - -So with the talent Coach Self has brought in, you wouldn’t consider him not getting the most from his players? - -Is he a bad Coach?
Don’t come at me with this crap about well he got to the final four - - lol - -is that the Goal? Cause if it is then your SETTLING. - -If your not then you might be able to understand Drew is not a bad Coach. - - Sorry you can’t understand jibberish as you call it - - sounds pretty easy to me, if you want to hang your hat on Conference Championship - - final fours how about you ask the players/Coaches if they set that as their goal - -you settle. But to say Drew is a poor Coach is just off period. - Is he a great Coach NO- but he sure the hell isn’t a bad Coach either. Done been brought up to you from others here what that program was like BEFORE he got there and how they have turned it around SINCE he has been there - did you forget to read those posts? - it’s ok you go ahead and keep your opinion - - it’s your opinion - -Hell it’s Friday - - I’m good. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@jayballer73 stop!
-
@jayballer73 Just for the record - Bill Self will tell you that the team goal every year is to win the Big 12 Conference. He must be a “settler”. And I really don’t think anywhere in all of this mess that i’ve called Drew a “bad” coach. Maybe I did - I don’t remember. But I DID say that he’s not a good coach. So good and bad is evidently a judgement call. Because I don’t think he’s a good coach.
-
@nuleafjhawk Saying someone is not a good coach is pretty strongly implying that they are a bad coach.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 It’s really not. It could be saying they’re OK. They decent. Maybe I should have said “Great” instead of “Good”. Would we be having this conversation now if I had done that? Is anyone willing to step out into the abyss and say he’s a Great coach?
-
Does anyone remember these guys? They were some extremely talented athletes and players. Look at the dates - a lot of them played together at Baylor on the same team. You get my point. I’m sorry I got everyone all out of joint today.
CURRENT BAYLOR BEARS IN THE NBA
Quincy Acy (2008-12)
Johnathan Motley (2014-17)
Royce O’Neale (2013-15)
Taurean Prince (2012-16)
Ekpe Udoh (2009-10)
FORMER BAYLOR BEARS IN THE NBA
Pierre Jackson (2011-13)
Cory Jefferson (2009-14)
-
Yes!
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
@Texas-Hawk-10 It’s really not. It could be saying they’re OK. They decent. Maybe I should have said “Great” instead of “Good”. Would we be having this conversation now if I had done that? Is anyone willing to step out into the abyss and say he’s a Great coach?
Then most people would say that coach was okay or decent if they meant that instead of not good. I don’t ever recall using the phrase “not good” to describe okay, decent, average or anything along those lines. Every time I’ve used that phrase or heard other’s use “not good”, it was to say whatever was being talked about was bad without saying it was bad.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’d give it a C or average. Not good or not bad, just me.
-
Also, getting old!
-
@nuleafjhawk said in More than we can BEARS...:
Is anyone willing to step out into the abyss and say he’s a Great coach?
Hell no!
I think he’s good, but far from great. Not someone I’d want at KU, but I think he’s good for the conference. A decent human being and he currently has the #1 team that broke KU’s win streak for longest in conference history. I’d say he’s good - above average. Arguments could be made that Huggins is great and if so that makes 2 great coaches in the conference, 1 rising star in Beard (we’ll see if that continues), 1 above average coach in Drew, 3 average coaches in Dixon, Kruger, and Weber, and a below par bunch at the other schools -Prohm, Shaka, Boyton.
I really don’t know who I’d like as Self’s replacement were he to retire unexpectedly from his post, but it isn’t someone from the Big12.
