Outcoached By Scot Drew



  • Is the game passing Bill by?

    All fiction no malice.



  • No. Look at 2020 and 21 recruiting. All smalls.



  • Agree, jury is out until we have a seasoned modern roster. They have to shoot well.



  • The next three games should be wins. If not… UH OH.



  • Trey Point Shooters Please.



  • Settle on an offensive identity. Practice it, eat it, sleep it. That’s what is holding them back



  • AsadZ said:

    Trey Point Shooters Please.

    Can we sneak Bryce Thompson onto the roster now?



  • @BShark

    I’d be surprised if we do. Short turnaround to Norman and Dotson and Garrett are not healthy



  • BeddieKU23 said:

    Settle on an offensive identity. Practice it, eat it, sleep it. That’s what is holding them back

    We have just got to get rid of this dam 2 Big’s. - Why even start a two Big line up if you pull him after 2-3 minutes ? - -This two big line up is just junk.



  • BeddieKU23 said:

    @BShark

    I’d be surprised if we do. Short turnaround to Norman and Dotson and Garrett are not healthy

    Still gotta beat a team like OU.



  • BShark said:

    BeddieKU23 said:

    @BShark

    I’d be surprised if we do. Short turnaround to Norman and Dotson and Garrett are not healthy

    Still gotta beat a team like OU.

    This loss will be difficult to overcome + the injuries. Its about to get rocky. This was arguably the worst game of the year on offense. Hope they have short memories and the coaches figure something out.

    Good thing OU cant defend but at home they will make 3s.

    Yes, it’s a game you have to win and should win but I think a bunch of humble pie came our way today



  • OU has 3 awesome shooters from 3. That’s game is far from a lock. I actually won’t be surprised one bit if they lose that.



  • The game is definitely passing him by, it ain’t 15 or 20 years ago. Got to have some shooters and to get some offense without Dot on the floor.



  • Not having any shooters is just so damn frustrating. I just don’t understand why we can’t find any. Moss is OK but just so inconsistent.



  • @Woodrow and if he’s off, he doesn’t add much



  • Wow that hurt



  • We were exposed.

    I have to hand it to Drew. He has upped his coaching over the past 5 years and he came ready today. Never winning in AFH didn’t hold him or his players down. They were confident and they never lost their cool. They came in an executed a game plan and it was their game plan that won it today. I wouldn’t trade our personnel for theirs.

    We played soft. How many 50/50 balls did we get? Any? Did we have a single break away basket? No! It was the old phrase “deer in the headlights” look for us today. Did anyone see any optimism expressed in our game? Any players smacking their hands together and chatting up the fellas?

    We clearly lost confidence and went soft. Even our defense slacked off. We couldn’t mount an offensive attack and we felt inferior. Meanwhile, Baylor continually built confidence the entire game.

    There is something glaring and I’ve been mentioning this for years. Baylor came in and played great defense. I put them near a Nova team. We never respond well to aggressive defense. Why? Because we don’t practice specifically to attack an aggressive defense. How many backdoor alleyoops did we run today? Zero! In fact, we ran very few set plays. I’ve said all along this year that this team will need to be running plenty of set plays. When we did run set plays (after timeouts) we were successful. We have to learn to ATTACK aggressive offense instead of fold them up! Today we folded. Players must learn how to attack aggressive defense and draw fouls. The way to end aggressive defense is to get them in foul trouble and we should have had Baylor in foul trouble today, but we weren’t attacking.

    Tough loss, and I hope we learn from it, but I’m not counting on seeing our coaching coming around to attacking aggressive defense. It is something we have to practice regularly in practice, just like end game practicing.



  • If Moss would have hit that corner three to cut it to 2, the roof would have blown off AFH. Would have changed the game



  • If we’re saying it’s fiction that Drew outcoached Self today, well, it ain’t fiction.

    1. The continued “starting” of Doke and Dave has to end, doesn’t it? That’s just a stupid Self decision. No dressing it up. Everyone knows it. Why start Dave, limit our chance for a quick start (setting the groundwork for the rest of the game). We know Self thinks it isn’t the best team because he doesn’t do it the rest of the game. He played 10 minutes, and played the first 4-5 minutes.

    2. Watch Baylor play defense. Go back and watch Baylor’s priorities on defense. They actively and intensely guarded the three point line AND they denied the entry to Doke. They gladly permitted two point jumpers much of the time. We don’t do that. We have different priorities. Self could do well to watch the tape and emulate what Drew did at the line.

    3. We had zero ability to overcome Drew taking away Doke. Sound familiar? Nova in 2016 with Ellis? We scored 59 points in that one. 55 here. Feed the post to Ellis. Ellis 1-5. Feed the post to Doke. Doke 3-6. Go to guys with very limited shot attempts. Then, from three - Shot 27% vs. Nova from three. Shot 27% today from three. Guys, this stuff doesn’t change with Self. This is where a coach has to have an answer. We had no answer. Self had no answer then, didn’t have an answer now.

    4. More wide open threes by our opponents. See, when teams miss wide open threes and we jump for joy as if we did something, it means nothing. That’s what we heard after the Nova game a few weeks ago. Some closed their eyes to the nature of the looks (wide open), falling back on the fact that they missed. And ignored our passive guarding of the line. Someone even wanted to argue about whether Nova was a good three point shooting team coming in. Just foolishness. Baylor was shoot 35.8% from three coming in. Look what they did. But if you give up open looks – the likelihood that a team in the NCAA tourney capitalizes in one of the games – is pretty high. Baylor beat us by 12. They made four more three pointers than we did. They also took four more three pointer than we did. Just an observation.

    5. For those that think somehow that our offense doesn’t matter, that we have to win with defense, here is “Exhibit B” for our tourney exit. Exhibit A was Dayton. We only attempted 15 three point shots. We only made four. If Self does not get our offense functioning better, well, we know how this ends.

    6. Moss is an illusion. He’s #fakenews. He shot 25% from three and around 40% from two. He did nothing else, playing big minutes. 30 minutes. 3 rebounds. 1 assist. No steals. Heck, no “disruptions.” This is an idle complaint/observation. He has to play.

    7. Not trying to be too dramatic here, but if Agbaji plays like this, we’re in deep trouble. Regardless of anything else. He is critical.

    8. Maybe I’m wrong, but this is the kind of game a highly functioning DeSousa could have helped. Pull Doke, play fast, get DeSousa moving on the perimeter. But it’s moot.

    Drew had an excellent defensive game plan. But remember, the coach’s job is to create scoring chances, open looks. We failed miserably today. Self has to take most of the responsibility for today. Some days, Self gets the credit. Baylor had better, more open looks. They had more quality scoring chances. Period.

    Oh, and cue the dismissive “sky is falling” posts that surely follow.



  • @drgnslayr pretty much exactly what I was getting at on the game chat. I’m just not as nice about it. Watch here comes a crying @PharmacyHawk. We had zero fight today and probably didn’t even earn Baylor’s respect let alone most folks that watched it.



  • Scott Drew NCOY lock



  • I’m at the point with this team that I say screw spreading the floor and trying to make a 4 guard line up work because KU doesn’t have the shooters to make that offense work this year.

    Commit to a 2 big system, but not the high-low because none of the bigs have the range to make it work. The strength of the guards is driving and the strength of the bigs is traditional back to the basket offense. Use a motion offense to create the looks for McCormack at the FT line because he can hit that shot and if the defense comes up to double him, kick out to a guard to drive if that’s where the double team comes from or dump it in to Doke of that’s where the double team comes from. If the defense doesn’t double, then McCormack can either take that that 15’ which is his range or get it back to Dotson or Garrett to reset the offense.

    Also, the offense looked a lot better with Garrett running the point today. The one run KU had today was with Garrett running the show when KU got the deficit down to 5 in the second half.



  • Turnovers and Butler. One is a team problem one was an individual player being better then the other 9 guys on the floor. That’s what it took to win in Allen. There were tons of other issues and reasons for the result but this was one of the first times an individual player has impacted the game so much that the 5 KU players couldn’t overcome it. Tons of concern out of this game.

    Dotson and Garrett’s health is deteriorating to the point it’s worth considering sitting them on Tuesday. What’s more important, OU or the tourney??? We already know both will play but the worst thing that can happen is one or both of them getting injured to the point they cant play at all. I’m worried



  • Texas Hawk 10 said:

    I’m at the point with this team that I say screw spreading the floor and trying to make a 4 guard line up work because KU doesn’t have the shooters to make that offense work this year.

    Commit to a 2 big system, but not the high-low because none of the bigs have the range to make it work. The strength of the guards is driving and the strength of the bigs is traditional back to the basket offense. Use a motion offense to create the looks for McCormack at the FT line because he can hit that shot and if the defense comes up to double him, kick out to a guard to drive if that’s where the double team comes from or dump it in to Doke of that’s where the double team comes from. If the defense doesn’t double, then McCormack can either take that that 15’ which is his range or get it back to Dotson or Garrett to reset the offense.

    Also, the offense looked a lot better with Garrett running the point today. The one run KU had today was with Garrett running the show when KU got the deficit down to 5 in the second half.

    Really, seems we’re pretty ineffective 3-2. That’s not to say we’ve got great outside shooting.



  • Bwag said:

    Texas Hawk 10 said:

    I’m at the point with this team that I say screw spreading the floor and trying to make a 4 guard line up work because KU doesn’t have the shooters to make that offense work this year.

    Commit to a 2 big system, but not the high-low because none of the bigs have the range to make it work. The strength of the guards is driving and the strength of the bigs is traditional back to the basket offense. Use a motion offense to create the looks for McCormack at the FT line because he can hit that shot and if the defense comes up to double him, kick out to a guard to drive if that’s where the double team comes from or dump it in to Doke of that’s where the double team comes from. If the defense doesn’t double, then McCormack can either take that that 15’ which is his range or get it back to Dotson or Garrett to reset the offense.

    Also, the offense looked a lot better with Garrett running the point today. The one run KU had today was with Garrett running the show when KU got the deficit down to 5 in the second half.

    Really, seems we’re pretty ineffective 3-2. That’s not to say we’ve got great outside shooting.

    Self’s ineffective with his version of the 2 big offense which is the high-low. None of the bigs have the range to make the high-low work. The 4 guard system isn’t working either because Self doesn’t have the shooters to to make defenses respect that. The answer is a more traditional offense that plays off the strengths of the current roster. The motion offense is that offense that plays to the strengths of this roster.

    In the motion offense, the perimeter players are looking for gaps in the defense to drive. If the defense stays home, one of the post players shoots up to the FT line and forces the defense make a decision. 15’ is about the limit of McCormack’s range so this offense would work better with 2 bigs than what Self’s trying to do now. Enaruna also has that range so it would make him more valuable as well in that offense.

    There would be a sacrifice on defense to doing this, but the gains in offense would be worth that sacrifice.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 I agree, we can either continue to hope we make 3s or change it up. The defense is better than it has been in years when we want it to be but it’s hard to hold everyone under 60. Which is what we will have to against a good team.



  • So if I’m an opposing coach, I would want the ball in Dave’s hands 15 feet from the basket every possession. So there is that. Dave can’t put it on the floor and drive. Dave can’t pass. Dave fumbles the ball around when there is any pressure much of the time. Dave shooting from 15 feet would make any sane opposing coach happy.

    The 3/2 is dependent on Silvio somehow becoming the player we expected, OR possibly playing a guard, like Brain, as the “high”? The latter simply spit ballin’.



  • @HighEliteMajor we keep giving Silvio chances and I was all for it til after today. We had a lead til he came in. Big swing! I feel like we can only play him at the end w/big leads. Pains me to say!



  • Self isn’t going to make radical change now. We’re halfway through the year. What we rolled into conference play with is what we’ll continue conference play with.

    @Texas-Hawk-10 I’d rather commit to the 4-1 then try to hack the 3-2 and make it work, even if we fail with a 4-1 this year because of personnel. Then we recruit personnel to fit the 4-1, saying “we need you”. It’s time to be all in.

    Marcus needs to be healthy, make crisp passes and lead through smothering defense.

    Dotson needs to be healthy, continue to drive and shoot somewhere in the 35% range from 3.

    Dave needs to be Doke’s backup. Promise him his time to shine at the 5 is next year. Work his ass off as B-team in practice against Doke. Be Doke but more mobile guarding perimeter next year.

    Play Silvio at the 4, he’s the only big suited for the 4. If you want to go “big” at the 4, it should be Silvio and he should also try to hoist more 3’s. He made one earlier. I think this was Self’s idea today. Except… a) it shouldn’t be Dave thats the 5, and b) it shouldn’t be in one of the most important games of the season.

    Braun needs to forget he’s a freshman. Forget he’s in college. Find his avatar state and just stay there until the season’s over.

    Agbaji needs to continue to let his defense lead him, and hoist 3 balls all practice.

    Moss not hitting 3’s? That’s like a field goal kicker that forgets how to kick. Not useful.



  • jayballer73 said:

    BeddieKU23 said:

    Settle on an offensive identity. Practice it, eat it, sleep it. That’s what is holding them back

    We have just got to get rid of this dam 2 Big’s. - Why even start a two Big line up if you pull him after 2-3 minutes ? - -This two big line up is just junk.

    I think sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t. It’s Self’s job to figure out when. He’s gotta be flexible.



  • It looked like Braun today was the one that lost the 3 pt shooters today. Confidence is great on O, but he can’t be helter skelter on D



  • Hard to overcome a flawed roster.



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    So if I’m an opposing coach, I would want the ball in Dave’s hands 15 feet from the basket every possession. So there is that. Dave can’t put it on the floor and drive. Dave can’t pass. Dave fumbles the ball around when there is any pressure much of the time. Dave shooting from 15 feet would make any sane opposing coach happy.

    The 3/2 is dependent on Silvio somehow becoming the player we expected, OR possibly playing a guard, like Brain, as the “high”? The latter simply spit ballin’.

    Silvio sucks at this point, simple as that. I also never said anything about McCormack needing to put the ball on the ground. 15’ is about the extent of his range so if opposing coaches are giving him that, I’m telling him to take that shot every time he’s left alone there because he’s going to hit that shot about 60-65% of the time from there. If opposing defenses never adjust to that, then McCormack ends up with some 20 point games on a good night. If they do adjust, then the lanes open up for the guards to drive and the paint opens up for Doke down low.

    As a basketball coach, I was told to not adjust your line up to the other team, especially if you had the superior talent which KU does against just about everyone on their schedule. You stay in your lane and force the other team to adjust to you and KU’s current roster isn’t suited for a 4 guard offense because of the lack of shooting. It’s suited for a traditional offense with 2 traditional bigs and Self needs to fully embrace bully ball to make that run this year.



  • BigBad said:

    Hard to overcome a flawed roster.

    Every roster is flawed. What good coaches need to do is play up the strengths of their roster. Self hasn’t done a great job of that this year. Self is trying to straddle the line between two different offensive philosophies and the result is the worst KU offense of the Bill Self era. Self should’ve committed to one system over the Christmas break and installed whatever system he wanted to try and salvage the offense this year.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 gosh, it sure didn’t look like we had the best talent today



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 maybe if dot, och, Marcus played at their 100% best, yes. But gotta find a 4 spot



  • Crimsonorblue22 said:

    @Texas-Hawk-10 gosh, it sure didn’t look like we had the best talent today

    KU absolutely has better talent than Baylor. Today was a combination of KU playing with next to no energy and Self having a bad game plan today and not making good adjustments.



  • Well everyone is right about Silvio. Can barely afford to play him.

    @Texas-Hawk-10 If you’re putting Dave at the top, from 15 feet out, in the hi/low, he has to be able to put it on the deck and drive. A key element of the hi/low. And no, Dave isn’t hitting 60-65% of his 15 footers. It’s a horrible shot for us to rely on. Horrible.



  • It still sucks we got punked at home by Baylor and Scott Drew. At least they are a good ranked team. I just miss the days when people were scared to come to AFH and the place was loud. I swear every year I go it gets quieter and more folks sitting down on cell phones.



  • @kjayhawks I’ve been to 2 games this yr, the place was crazy! Before this year I got to go to probably 6-7 games a year. Always loud and fun! You are just full of it and I’m calling you out!



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    Well everyone is right about Silvio. Can barely afford to play him.

    @Texas-Hawk-10 If you’re putting Dave at the top, from 15 feet out, in the hi/low, he has to be able to put it on the deck and drive. A key element of the hi/low. And no, Dave isn’t hitting 60-65% of his 15 footers. It’s a horrible shot for us to rely on. Horrible.

    Maybe you should read my posts in their entirety instead of cherry picking. At no point in this thread have I said that Self’s two big offense at this point should be the high-low like you are trying to claim. I specifically, in multiple posts, said the two big offense at this point should be a traditional motion offense with McCormack being the one flaring up to the FT line if the defense plays tight on the perimeter and doesn’t allow the guards to turn the corner and drive.

    In an ideal version of this version of a motion offense, Dotson and Garrett driving would be the first option, McCormack or Doke coming up to screen would be a way to create mismatches and get slower guys on Dotson and Garrett if defenses switch. If they don’t switch, Dotson and Garrett should have the angle to drive the lane.

    The second option would be Doke off of those drives. If a defender is fronting Doke, then Doke is one of the best in the business at establishing position and he could easily move his man up the paint to set himself up for some easy baskets.

    McCormack from the FT line would be the third option. And yes, he would he hit 60-65% of 15’ jumpers if he’s open. If defenses guard him one on one, then kick it back to a guard and reset. If the double is coming from Doke’s guy, then easy pass to Doke.



  • Crimsonorblue22 said:

    @kjayhawks I’ve been to 2 games this yr, the place was crazy! Before this year I got to go to probably 6-7 games a year. Always loud and fun! You are just full of it and I’m calling you out!

    They’ve rearranged the student section in recent years so AFH definitely isn’t as loud as it was because they’ve put more high dollar donor seats closer to the floor and pushed students further up the bleachers.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 I think it was louder several years ago. I see more people playing on cell phones. Several others on here have mentioned this in the past few years. Say did the KU boo the opposing team when they came out? Asking for @jayballer73





  • Texas Hawk 10 said:

    Crimsonorblue22 said:

    @kjayhawks I’ve been to 2 games this yr, the place was crazy! Before this year I got to go to probably 6-7 games a year. Always loud and fun! You are just full of it and I’m calling you out!

    They’ve rearranged the student section in recent years so AFH definitely isn’t as loud as it was because they’ve put more high dollar donor seats closer to the floor and pushed students further up the bleachers.

    Yep. The KU Senate reneged on their deal with KUAD to pay a fee and keep the section on the floor and lost that section on the sideline.



  • @kjayhawks always, but u started out saying our fans were booing our players, never, ever seen that. Boo refs. Been to fb games, no booing, one Vb and one baseball game, no booing. Worked KU relays, no booing. KU fans are classy, we applaud Kevin Durant, buddy hield and George Nieng-sp?, W/standing O’s.



  • There was a $50 per student fee that the KU Student Senate voted to remove. Section U went to deep pocket donors to accomodate part of the loss of money, which in total was $1.1mil

    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article491664/KU-plans-to-reallocate-some-courtside-Allen-Fieldhouse-student-seats-for-donors.html



  • Allen Fieldhouse crowd breaks record for noise during KU game

    Crowd noise hits 130.4 dB during first half, takes record from Kentucky

    Share KMBC Updated: 9:54 AM CST Feb 14, 2017 After students were moved, I was there



  • @Crimsonorblue22 yes, I had a friend said they did. @jayballer73 said ku fans have never booed anyone even opposing teams repeatedly. Go back and read please and comprehend. I’m not gonna argue with you, I respect you too much.



  • @kjayhawks I know, don’t talk down to me. I answered your question, leave me out of your messes.


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