Impeachment Hearings
-
madmaxKU said:
@Kcmatt7 sounds like you are so nervous about 2020 that you are out there beating the drum for the DNC trying to change opinions of independent minded individuals who clearly can think for themselves. The guy(Adam Schiff) running the hearings lies about meeting and coaching Joe Biden’s ally(AKA Whistleblower). The same guy who said for 2 years that he had concrete evidence that trump colluded with the Russians
, evidence Robert Mueller and a squad of Democrat lawyers & $35 million in tax payer funds couldn’t uncover. We are supposed to trust Schiff and his allies are being honest with us after what they put every American through. Now he’s doing everything he can to hide the so-called “Whistleblower” from testifying. Even though he doesn’t qualify as a Whistleblower underneath the Whistleblower Statute. When every witness who testified publicly, and questioned if they had any direct knowledge or evidence to support a crime was committed, they all said emphatically NO. Even Sondland had to walk back quid pro quo live during the hearings. Judges have already domestically ruled that a meeting isn’t a thing of value. So we can’t stop throwing that out there like it carries any weight. Hearsay, gossip, and unsubstantiated presumptions don’t constitute viable evidence to remove a duly elected President. Hating someone so vehemently doesn’t make your argument anymore compelling either.This is coming from someone who voted for Obama first term. Before realizing I was voting to penalize myself for being a younger healthy U.S. citizen. Let everyone testify, even those Democrats and the White House have prevented from testifying. If any substantiated evidence is derived from that to support your emphatic position the president has committed high crimes so egregious we need to remove him from office… then we’ll cross that road when we get there. Until then we aren’t even close to meeting that bar.
Yes I came to site of 50 to talk about this because I’m nervous.
If I know anything about this site, there’s no changing someone’s mind lol.
-
@Kcmatt7 when most people in America are laughing or completely uninterested in what you and Schiff are selling… yes I actually do think you have some nerves to work through
And there you go making another assumption and conclusion on how everyone thinks or should think on this site. Idk @Kcmatt7 What should I eat tomorrow morning to honor the constitution?
-
@madmaxKU Where have you been the past 2 years? You are certainly eloquent, so I am surprised you have only started posting again in this politics forum. The adidas clusterf— could have used some interesting observations.
-
@mayjay Thanks for the kind words. I had been taking care of my dad, a 3rd generation Jayhawk from Russell, KS the last couple years. His battle with bad health ended a month ago. I had been hiding myself from a lot of things, but now I feel emboldened to put myself back out there socially. I haven’t been able to watch any of the games except for the Duke game which was a bummer haha. Once I’m able to watch the game tonight and others that follow, I will start contributing my two cents and participate more in all the great discussions started on this board. I’ve been an entertained spectator the past 2 years though.
-
madmaxKU said:
@Kcmatt7 when most people in America are laughing or completely uninterested in what you and Schiff are selling… yes I actually do think you have some nerves to work through
And there you go making another assumption and conclusion on how everyone thinks or should think on this site. Idk @Kcmatt7 What should I eat tomorrow morning to honor the constitution?Eggs Benedict seems appropriate at the moment.
-
And the surveys – from Quinnipiac and Monmouth University – overall indicate little movement in the minds of Americans on impeachment and on Trump’s approval rating over the past month. This, following dramatic public hearings by the House Intelligence and Judiciary Committees that culminated Tuesday with Democrats unveiling impeachment articles alleging Trump abused the power of his office and obstructed the congressional investigation into his alleged wrongdoing.
According to the Monmouth poll – which was released Wednesday – 50 percent said the president should not be impeached and removed from office, with 45 percent calling for impeachment and removal from the White House. The numbers are little changed from Monmouth’s November poll, when a 51-44 percent majority opposed impeachment and removal.
It’s a similar story in the Quinnipiac survey, which was released on Tuesday. By a 51-45 percent margin, Americans opposed impeaching and removing the president, little changed from the school’s late November poll.
-
Im still waiting for the facts? All I’ve seen is hear say and perception? Let’s not forget Trump Released the transcripts Of the call. What we debating?
-
Be honest? If this was a Dem would you libs and socialist be on board with impeachment? Would you think the evidence presented be good enough to impeach one of your own?
-
Would you be here posting they have to go?
-
Will you vote for biden? Who’s son obviously got some serious money being the son of a VP.
-
Oh for the record we all know how this impeachment will turnout. Yet man our Jayhawks are tough this year. Really tough. Rock Chalk
-
I wonder why?
-
Because the American people are tired of bullshit, regardless of who is responsible.
-
approxinfinity said:
Because the American people are tired of bullshit, regardless of who is responsible?
It’s Christmas.
-
Pelosi handled this really well. She had to thread a needle in protecting her vulnerable members and placating her left flank. Now Cocaine Mitch does what he does best. Steamroll Schumer on procedure and the Senate will acquit.
-
The one thing she CANNOT do is some gambit in withholding the articles to try to get some concessions on witnesses in the Senate. Cocaine Mitch isn’t budging and has the numbers to acquit no matter what so it really doesn’t matter. Get this off the plate ASAP to protect her endangered members.
-
The House shoulde have amended to censure, not subject to Senate action. Dems are excited to be committing electoral suicide. Oh well, it is a movie I have seen a dozen times before.
By 2119, no one alive will care anymore.
-
@mayjay explain, please.
-
@FarmerJayhawk I thought he was Moscow Mitch.
-
-
@Crimsonorblue22 I just think the Dems are working hard to please their fringe with impeachment despite it being virtually hopeless in the Senate, with their candidates fragmented so much that there is no cohesive Dem msg for 2020. The country desperately wants legislation to solve infrastructure and medical costs, while the Dem’s have spent untold hours in a virtual circle jerk chanting “we hate the Donald”.
In a fair Senate, he would be tossed out because he is the most corrupt prez in history, but it isn’t a fair Senate. The House should have denounced his actions and moved on to be the chamber proving it can govern rather than just spasming every time DJT did another horrible thing.
The election will be won in the minds of swing voters. With only 45 to 50% of voters agreeing on impeachment, the Dems have not been making any rational appeal as to why they should get the votes.
But the last sentence in my other post is simply a paraphrase of John Kenneth Galbreath’s “In the long run, we will all be dead.” I still believe the country will survive, all the current nitwits running it notwithstanding.
-
mayjay said:
@Crimsonorblue22 I just think the Dems are working hard to please their fringe with impeachment despite it being virtually hopeless in the Senate, with their candidates fragmented so much that there is no cohesive Dem msg for 2020. The country desperately wants legislation to solve infrastructure and medical costs, while the Dem’s have spent untold hours in a virtual circle jerk chanting “we hate the Donald”.
In a fair Senate, he would be tossed out because he is the most corrupt prez in history, but it isn’t a fair Senate. The House should have denounced his actions and moved on to be the chamber proving it can govern rather than just spasming every time DJT did another horrible thing.
The election will be won in the minds of swing voters. With only 45 to 50% of voters agreeing on impeachment, the Dems have not been making any rational appeal as to why they should get the votes.
But the last sentence in my other post is simply a paraphrase of John Kenneth Galbreath’s “In the long run, we will all be dead.” I still believe the country will survive, all the current nitwits running it notwithstanding.
Hot damn. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
-
The Democrats did what they did because they believe in it, even though it may cost them votes later.
-
Now that’s really something to laugh about. They believe in it. What they believe in is doing anything and everything to attack and debilitate the president, in an unprecedented fashion, to stop his agenda.
The Russian investigation was proven to be a complete hoax. Done, over, gone.
The IG report proved that they FBI used illegal means to get surveillance on a presidential campaign, being rebuked by the FISA court.
The impeachment inquiry has now deteriorated from claims of quid pro quo (now that’s gone) to bribery (now that’s gone) to now a mushy “abuse of power.” And the obstruction issue? Trump is in court with a review coming by the Supreme Court. He’s in court on the issue, right?
When someone is trying to kill you (literally or figuratively) and you use strong tactics to stop it, you’re wrong?
Well, of course, this from the same party that would want you in jail for shooting an intruder. The same party that would want you to have to retreat if being attacked. The same party that has and always will support vicious criminals over citizens.
This is what you get from the disgusting left -
Free speech? The left is the enemy of free speech. They want to shut it down, when they disagree. We’ve seen it here. Try to debate with facts? Not if it isn’t the fact that the left agrees with.
I will never defend Trump’s character. Disgusting. Would much rather call Obama a friend, or have him to my home for dinner. I’m driven by policy. And protecting our country from the left’s destructive goals.
But what is occurring now is a travesty driven by the ever disgusting left.
I saw where one of the “squad” interrupted a speech in congress with shouts to, “stop it.” That’s the left. Third world. Antifa. Urine bombs. Attacking Trump supporters. Open the gates to our country.
Disgusting.
-
@HighEliteMajor I believe in impeachment because I believe withholding foreign aid to solicit a political investigation of an adversary is impeachable. I also think his conduct toward Putin, China, Syria and Saudi Arabia represents a serious security threat to the country. For this reason I’m in favor of censure as well. Either he is guilty of an impeachable offense or he’s too stupid/ morally bankrupt and self-serving to recognize it as such. I don’t agree with his domestic policies but I could weather his administration there. I just don’t think we can allow him to run a shadow government via Rudy Giuliani. The House did the right thing.
-
@approxinfinity You should read the transcript. That transcript, being morphed into an alleged impeachable offense, is mind-boggling. The claimed whistle-blower, who isn’t really a “whistle-blower” under the law, didn’t hear the conversation. He heard about it. He then met with Schiff to strategize all of this. Schiff then got on national TV, all networks interrupted, and then he lied about the transcript contents, later calling his speech to the nation a “parody.”
Again, this went from quid pro quo, to bribery, to this. Where is the quid pro quo? Why isn’t “bribery” the article of impeachment? We know why.
Now, I’m not going to defend Trump’s character. But I’m very glad he doesn’t take left’s lies and crap sitting down. I’d rather he be presidential about it, though. He’s crass and disgusting. But his policies are what I have to focus on. Otherwise we’d have justices on the SC that think like the 9th circuit – the ones that complete disregarded the immigration restrictions Trump lawfully imposed claiming he couldn’t do that when the law was clear. Judges solely motivated by politics. The shadow government, really, is the deep state that has worked so feverishly against him. Trump upsets the apple cart. The Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama makes folks comfortable.
-
HighEliteMajor said:
@approxinfinity You should read the transcript. That transcript, being morphed into an alleged impeachable offense, is mind-boggling. The claimed whistle-blower, who isn’t really a “whistle-blower” under the law, didn’t hear the conversation. He heard about it. He then met with Schiff to strategize all of this. Schiff then got on national TV, all networks interrupted, and then he lied about the transcript contents, later calling his speech to the nation a “parody.”
Again, this went from quid pro quo, to bribery, to this. Where is the quid pro quo? Why isn’t “bribery” the article of impeachment? We know why.
Now, I’m not going to defend Trump’s character. But I’m very glad he doesn’t take left’s lies and crap sitting down. I’d rather he be presidential about it, though. He’s crass and disgusting. But his policies are what I have to focus on. Otherwise we’d have justices on the SC that think like the 9th circuit – the ones that complete disregarded the immigration restrictions Trump lawfully imposed claiming he couldn’t do that when the law was clear. Judges solely motivated by politics. The shadow government, really, is the deep state that has worked so feverishly against him. Trump upsets the apple cart. The Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama makes folks comfortable.
The Ukraine quid pro quo allegation is right there in the first article of impeachment. The second article is straightforward obstruction. Congress has the authority as the superior branch of government to subpoena anyone they please. Trump can’t just not comply with lawful actions taken by Congress, hence the “faithfully execute” clause.
I would be careful saying Trunp’s record is such a success. He nearly fatally wounded the TCJA by meddling in the House W&M process. He scuttled ACA repeal. He has no interest in the debt. Foreign policy is a disaster. Trade is a disaster. I’ll give you judges but any other 2016 Republican would’ve done the same and not screwed up everything else. And he’s making the GOP uninhabitable for folks like me who spent years working for free minds and free markets, neither of which Trump believes in.
Interesting you find character so important for a basketball coach but not the President.
-
I’ve actually disabled my Facebook to prevent hearing about this nonsense daily. Lol it’s all a big joke folks. This is a distraction from other stuff the government has been doing like renewing the Patriot act allowing us to be spied on. @justanotherfan The dems are doing it, tho it wont pass the senate and is a complete waste of time, because it’s not their money that’s getting blown in doing so. They’ve wasted billions of tax payer dollars trying to get him impeached for the last 3 years. Instead of getting someone worth damn to run against him in 2020, you know like a logical thinking person.
-
@kjayhawks we call it “the show”.
-
@BShark that’s all it is my friend, one big show. The government is a big party but we ain’t in it lol.
-
I know I’m just a dirty rotten leftist but I am genuinely curious how conservatives feel about the new defense proposed in the impeachment. I found this quote particularly terrifying but maybe I’m just seeing it through my blue shaded glasses?
“And if a president did something that he believes will help him get elected, in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment,” Dershowitz argued.
Help me out here conservatives. Explain to me why this kid of presidential power without oversight is good. Genuinely trying to understand this because to my brain it is incomprehensible.
-
benshawks08 said:
I know I’m just a dirty rotten leftist but I am genuinely curious how conservatives feel about the new defense proposed in the impeachment. I found this quote particularly terrifying but maybe I’m just seeing it through my blue shaded glasses?
“And if a president did something that he believes will help him get elected, in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment,” Dershowitz argued.
Help me out here conservatives. Explain to me why this kid of presidential power without oversight is good. Genuinely trying to understand this because to my brain it is incomprehensible.
Not a conservative, but generally on the right. Dershowitz is a hack. He made his career as a defense attorney and that’s what he’s doing here. No more, no less.
-
@FarmerJayhawk Do you worry if Trump is now acquitted by the Senate that this line of defense becomes precedent and opens up presidents to do almost anything they’d like to get reelected because they “believe” it’s in the public interest for them to be president? I’m also no law scholar so I’m curious to know if that’s even how that would work.
-
This is going to sound sort of funny.
I am young, I think you all know that. So I’m just now finding my Political Identity. I feel as though I’m a moderate. I have been called shitty names by both sides, that’s how I know… I personally find the current President and his administration unbearable as, I’ve made clear. But I’ve quit worrying about it so much recently.
Why?
Well since Disney + came out, I’ve started watching the Simpsons from Episode 1. I’ve never watched them all the way through before. And, you know what, we have been in this same battle as a country for over 30 years. The things said over 30 years ago are still being said today. Almost exactly. It was hysterical!
And as I’ve now made it through about 8 season (I let it play in the background while I do other things), I am reassured that the U.S. will be just as divided and partisan tomorrow as it is today and was yesterday.
So I’ve quit watching the hearings. I quit being so captivated by it on Twitter and TV. He did what he is being accused of, and he’s going to get away with it. I’ve made peace with that. It’s clear he did it. You have to twist yourself into a pretzel to even try to argue what he was doing was okay. I have a lot of opinions on how this all was handled, but ultimately things will be decided in November. That’s where we are.
What I haven’t made peace with is term limits. Or rather, a lack there of. What the impeachment has made clear to me is that we don’t have an independent body capable of holding a president accountable. Every single position in the Legislative branch should be single-term. You can do one in the House and one in the Senate. They cannot be consecutive. We absolutely need this. People argue experience is more important. I disagree. People are smart. Whether you like AOC or not I don’t care. She has proven that you can go from a bartender to drafting bills without needing multiple terms. “Regular” people are up to the task. I’m an accountant, so independence, from a process perspective, is extremely important to me. Unlimited Term limits in Congress is a disaster that our founding fathers apparently didn’t see coming.
To provide an example from the accounting world, in the Early 2000s, laws were passed that force Public Companies to rotate auditors every 5 years. Why did they do this? Enron was a main reason. For context: the auditors for Enron were getting paid millions of dollars to essentially help coverup the schemes going on by Enron. And instead of doing their job and acting as an independent body, they wanted to keep that account. So they let things slide. They covered up indiscretions and consulted on how to hide things from necessary reporting on the public financials. And they cost thousands of people to go broke. Thousands more to lose jobs. And it was all because they couldn’t do their one damn job, be an independent set of eyes and ears. Thus, the mandatory switching.
Does switching auditors suck? Absolutely. They don’t know your business. They haven’t seen how you account for certain transactions yet. They don’t understand your spreadsheets yet. They don’t know who to test, where to test, how to test. You have to go over all of your processes with them again. It is a huge pain in the ass. But, that independence is what keeps another Enron from happening.
The same thing is happening here. We have people sitting in Congress raking in cash. And instead of ever being compelled to do the thing they actually truly feel is right, they walk party lines and take money from corporations. They are not an independent body. Not even close. They are a corrupt group of people fighting for power and nothing more.
I don’t know that Trump would get impeached even if we had term limits and members could vote freely. I really don’t. But I do know that at least I’d have the confidence that Representatives were independent in their votes and not just toeing the party line because they are up for reelection in 2020.
-
benshawks08 said:
@FarmerJayhawk Do you worry if Trump is now acquitted by the Senate that this line of defense becomes precedent and opens up presidents to do almost anything they’d like to get reelected because they “believe” it’s in the public interest for them to be president? I’m also no law scholar so I’m curious to know if that’s even how that would work.
Not really. I think the outcome was certain no matter what the defense said. Dershowitz could’ve went up there and started yelling get these squirrels off me and Trump would’ve been acquitted. That’s the weird thing about impeachments. The underlying facts are rarely in dispute. Everyone knew Clinton lied under oath and Trump held up aid to Ukraine to push them to investigate the Biden’s. It’s a political judgment about whether these were acts worthy of removal from office.
And FWIW, I think this is pretty clear cut and the Senate should convict.
-
@Kcmatt7 I agree with what you are saying in terms of how much time and effort is spent worrying about this. It blows my flipping mind how much the left is obsessed with DJT and this whole impeachment thing. They knew from the beginning that he was not going to get convicted and yet every waking minutes of their lives is wasted on worrying about this. If you are so concerned about it then show up in November and vote him out. That is how it works.
I am not the most political person , but I do lean right since that is what I was raised around. However, I do have beliefs that lean more left. So maybe I am more of a moderate as well. Who the hell knows in today’s climate.
-
@Kcmatt7 Good points all around. I disagree on term limits. From what we know from research into state legislatures, term limits make representatives less accountable and increase the influence of special interests, professional staff, and the governor. They increase polarization as well since seniority tends to moderate legislators. Paradoxically, they tend to have the opposite effects proponents (quite reasonably!) believe they would, hence their popularity. https://www.mischiefsoffaction.com/post/political-science-term-limits
-
Corrected post.
Do we really want to live in a country where the executive branch can deny Congress the ability to oversee it? That gives the presidency far too much power. If the president can’t be impeached nor indicted aren’t his /her powers as great as any dictators? I find it sad that all members of Congress can think about is their own re-election.
-
SouthernHawk said:
Corrected post.
Do we really want to live in a country where the executive branch can deny Congress the ability to oversee it? That gives the presidency far too much power. If the president can’t be impeached nor indicted aren’t his /her powers as great as any dictators? I find it sad that all members of Congress can think about is their own re-election.
Super glad you brought this up. I think we need to reject the relatively new school of thought that says the branches are co-equal because they are absolutely not if you re-read the minutes to Constitutional Convention and the Federalist papers. Nobody the thought of interbranch dynamics in that way at all. Congress is the superior branch, the executive the inferior. Here’s a simple test: which branch has ultimate authority over who serves in the other two? Congress, because it can impeach whoever it damn well pleases for whatever reason it finds sufficient since A) it has the SOLE power of impeachment per the Constitution and B ) the issue of impeachment is non-justiciable. The courts have no role in the impeachment process.
We as voters need to quit thinking about POTUS as the end all be all and elect members of Congress that will actually reclaim the actual business of legislating. We may get a shove to that since this Roberts Court is as skeptical as any in recent memory about the non-delegation doctrine, which has very significant implications about administrative rule-making power. As an example, the ACA had a (this is a very jargony term, my apologies) SHITLOAD of “the Secretary (of HHS) shall” this or that to actually fill out the skeleton that was the ACA statute. It’s how we got things like the contraception mandate and all that jazz. This Court is skeptical that the legislature actually has the authority to delegate that power to the executive. Hopefully they keep chipping away at it until we get something resembling a functional legislative branch again.
I have more thoughts but went pretty far afield. Oops.
-
Back actually on topic, there aren’t 51 to extend the trial to call and depose witnesses. This will end late Friday/early Saturday. /scene
-
Joe Biden is a fat tick riding on the Body Politic - Trump is the tweezers.
-
Biden would make me mutter on the way home from voting. But no way in hell I’d vote for Trump.
Hoping for Bernie.
-
Thank you FarmerJayhawk for your insightful comments. I agree totally with your opinion with regards to Congress. My dollars are going to support important congressional races including ones in SC and KY.
-
SouthernHawk said:
Thank you FarmerJayhawk for your insightful comments. I agree totally with your opinion with regards to Congress. My dollars are going to support important congressional races including ones in SC and KY.
-
Another gem from Marco Rubio, “Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office.”
-
SouthernHawk said:
Thank you FarmerJayhawk for your insightful comments. I agree totally with your opinion with regards to Congress. My dollars are going to support important congressional races including ones in SC and KY.
You’re welcome! I’m glad there’s so much agreement about some of the causes of our current predicament.
To @benshawks08’s quote, I’m not sure if anyone has made a bigger ass of himself than Rubio over the last 4 years. From darling of the GOP and cover of Time to a sad, little man who hasn’t accomplished much of anything.
-
Biggest joke impeachment in our history. Sad thing is. Now every president will be impeached from here on out. I can hear it now. They tweeted something that hurt my feelings. At least Bill Clinton got a blow job out of his impeachment. Even though he lied under oath. But hey this is the new America. Don’t need evidence, just need speculation.
-
DoubleDD said:
Biggest joke impeachment in our history. Sad thing is. Now every president will be impeached from here on out. I can hear it now. They tweeted something that hurt my feelings. At least Bill Clinton got a blow job out of his impeachment. Even though he lied under oath. But hey this is the new America. Don’t need evidence, just need speculation.
Nah, Johnson was impeached for basically not following a law that was clearly unconstitutional, the Tenure of Office Act. Trump was impeached for not spending money specifically appropriated by Congress, breaching his obligation to “take care the laws are faithfully executed,” and doing so to start a foreign investigation into a political opponent. Those facts aren’t in dispute. If you think that doesn’t rise to the level of impeachable that’s fine and I can respect that, but he absolutely did what the House accuses him of doing.
-
Yea they are in dispute. Ukraine got your money on time.
-
So if a country is labeled as the most corrupt in the world. And a new president comes in and says hey let’s pump the brakes. We impeach them? I guess I want to ask how does the son of a VP gets a job he has no experience in. But let’s look the other way. Right?
