Sean Miller & Will Wade to be Subpoenaed at upcoming Trial
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BShark said:
This is still all hearsay right?
No smoking gun per se but my gods. Not sure how much plausible deniability they have left over there.
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No wonder Book just plead guilty lol.
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What the hell does a college kid need 10k a month for?
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@BigBad Textbooks.
Hence, Book Richardson.
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Christian Dawkins is testifying in his defense currently. Should be some more gold to come from this
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Dawkins said Izzo told him he was NOT going to pay for Bowen.
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BShark said:
This is still all hearsay right?
I guess technically but how many people need to say the same thing before its no longer such.
Book has said he made 250k and was paying players with his retirement.
Dawkins has said he had unlimited reach to the program including practices.
Book on tape with Dawkins discussing paying Rawle Alkins, Quinnerly, Deandre Ayton among others.
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BeddieKU23 said:
The hammer should be coming soon now. Sean Miller’s former assistant Book Richardson told Christian Dawkins on a phone call intercepted by wiretaps that Miller was paying Deandre Ayton 10k a month while enrolled at Arizona.
If Arizona turns a blind eye this time there is no hope for this sport
WOW
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
This is still all hearsay right?
I guess technically but how many people need to say the same thing before its no longer such.
Book has said he made 250k and was paying players with his retirement.
Dawkins has said he had unlimited reach to the program including practices.
Book on tape with Dawkins discussing paying Rawle Alkins, Quinnerly, Deandre Ayton among others.
I think I recall someone who I think is a lawyer posting that the information obtained via the wiretaps is considered by the court as hearsay. If that is the case, the number of times the information is repeated has no effect on the court’s position.
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Pete Thamel wrote an article asking how Sean can keep his job. Arizona fans are all over him on Twitter, claiming KU and Self are far worse off. Total denial Sean did anything wrong, claiming it’s all “hearsay”. Very entertaining.
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bcjayhawk said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
This is still all hearsay right?
I guess technically but how many people need to say the same thing before its no longer such.
Book has said he made 250k and was paying players with his retirement.
Dawkins has said he had unlimited reach to the program including practices.
Book on tape with Dawkins discussing paying Rawle Alkins, Quinnerly, Deandre Ayton among others.
I think I recall someone who I think is a lawyer posting that the information obtained via the wiretaps is considered by the court as hearsay. If that is the case, the number of times the information is repeated has no effect on the court’s position.
You could be right, in court its hearsay. What’s Arizona going to do? Find a hole and stay there? They can’t avoid this.
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Dawkins took the stand.
https://sports.yahoo.com/how-christian-dawkins-exposed-college-amateurism-231944769.html
Pete Thamel on Sean Miller
https://sports.yahoo.com/how-much-longer-can-arizona-employ-sean-miller-234649798.html
At least Arizona sent some people. The NCAA is on some Yacht somehwere
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““I’ve hoped this from Day 1, that coaches are held accountable and consequences are according to what they do,” Izzo said. “But I think players should be held accountable, I think parents should be held accountable. Accountable shouldn’t be a one-person deal – we all should be held accountable. And that’s what I’d like to see.””
“Flat out refused to pay for a recruit!”
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@drgnslayr but who’s accountable for all the rapes reported by the past bb players and ast coach I believe?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@drgnslayr but who’s accountable for all the rapes reported by the past bb players and ast coach I believe?
Oh man. Brutal! Right on @Crimsonorblue22 !
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So how is Izzo accountable for the stupid, criminal acts of thug players? If one of our players rapes a girl, it’s Self’s fault?
I don’t recall any info that Izzo didn’t cooperate, or tried to cover anything up.
The coach deal (grad assistant I think) was a non issue.
Perhaps we should applaud Izzo for not doing what our program has permitted to occur, and apparently took part in.
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@HighEliteMajor Izzo may not be responsible for directly for a player’s actions, but he is responsible for how he handles the matter when it happens and there’s been plenty of stories of MSU admins looking the other way in regards student athletes committing sexual assault. Tom Izzo works for the school that allowed Larry Nassar to happen.
Izzo’s hands are not clean and I also think it’s very naive to think MSU has never had a player funneled to them by Nike. Just because Izzo refused to get involved with Brian Bowen, doesn’t mean he hasn’t been involved with other players.
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Kids aren’t going to play for MSU for free.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 The MSU football program is super dirty as well.
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@BShark Their entire athletic department is.
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@HighEliteMajor Those things are mutually exclusive. You can appreciate if he didn’t condone paying players, while still acknowledging that some sh-- went down at MSU with the treatment of women that it seems Izzo didn’t want to have anything to do with. His statements after the fact were dismissive. And his grad student was permitted to stay on staff after punching a girl in the face for telling him to f— off. Later, he sexually assaulted another woman.
This is not a good look.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 @BShark Amazing how much inside knowledge the two of you have.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 @BShark Amazing how much inside knowledge the two of you have.
I’ve brought this up before but multiple members of my extended family are MSU grads and donors. Two first cousins going there right now. I don’t know everything obviously, but hell I have more real info about MSU than I ever get before anyone else about KU.
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@HighEliteMajor It’s amazing all the information that comes out during a trial about a school when their head athletic trainer goes to prison for sexually assaulting minors.
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You guys need your own MSU site. I mean to report all the dirt you know about.
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What I take from Izzo… is Izzo has things tight enough (including his statements) to stay out of trouble.
You get a group of people together and crimes are always going to be there. (see Catholic Church)
And concerning college sports… the system is dirty. It’s built to play “gotcha” on every school. I think it is the way it is just to empower the NCAA. What school doesn’t fear a NCAA investigation? It’s the same system used by dictators. Hitler used this system. He made it impossible for his cabinet to play by the rules and would periodically slaughter his own just to keep in full power. I hate to mention his name but the parallels are there.
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The NCAA isn’t Hitler but it’s definitely a cartel. It has a set of rules, power, and if you don’t buy the rules you can’t be in business and the NCAA will bury you. All on unpaid labor.
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@FarmerJayhawk That is just not true. The NCAA is not a cartel as the term is used. You can start a minor league BB league right now. In fact the NCAA invites competition. The NCAA is not able to stop you from competing anyway. The NCAA doesn’t work to limit supply. OPEC is a cartel. They utilize international law to avoid antitrust enforcement. And requires memeber participation. Unions are also more close to cartel status as they seek to eliminate the ability of workers to earn a living without being a member of the union, and to set prices in a manner that is anti-competitive.
Here, the NCAA allows participation by players by offering specific benefits. Much different. There is no requirement that the players accept, and the players are free to ply their trade anywhere else without repercussion. And as mentioned, no one is prohibited from starting a league that targets the same players and directly competes.
An X factor in the equation is that CBB is not the only sport governed by the NCAA. They work to fund millions of athletes in other non revenue sports. The benefit to student athletes is immeasurable. It is laughable to listen to NCAA bashers who completely ignore the millions of athletes that have received free education by participating in the various sports they love — its really quite amazing to think that you can be a good rower and get your education paid for.
So while it is fashionable to bash the NCAA, that argument completely lacks merit. It’s one forwarded by anti-CBB commentator Jay Bilas. But like many in the media, they offfer their comments in a forum free from debate, or where someone can point out their errors.
If CBB players skills were so valuable, why isn’t there a league that pays them high dollar to participate? Newsflash - it’s not the players that create the value. It is the schools (KU), their identity (Jayhawks), it is the facilities (AFH) — the players don’t really matter. Miles, Chalmers, Taylor, Mason, Dotson. Just place holders.
And that’s the difference most ignore. In college sports, the interest is not largely created by the individual players, but it is most created by the tie to the University.
How much interest would there be if the KC Hawks (with KU’s roster) played the Durham Devils (with Duke’s roster) played at the Sprint center? With other similar teams in a league? Virtuallly zero.
So don’t forget what the NCAA offers us, the fan. But the irrational bashing won’t stop.
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@HighEliteMajor enjoyed your post. I think you are not acknowledging that the NCAA has a monopoly on college sports, all the infrastructure, all the athletes, all the contracts. Maybe it mandates a breakup like AT&T into the Baby Bells in 1974.
I say that without having any idea where the lines of division could be drawn.
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@approxinfinity Great point. That’s a different and really more relevant discussion point … and you’re right, the correct analysis of this (in my opinion as well) is whether there is a monopoly. You can’t have a cartel if you have a monopoly, kind of by definition.
The NCAA does have a competitor, kind of, which is the NAIA. It could also be argued that the subunits (conferences) are really operating entities. And that the subunits of the subunits (the schools) are operating entities. But economically, that’s kind of like saying AT&T’s shareholders are separate entities – that doesn’t make sense in this situation either. The NCAA is the operating structure. The monopoly discussion is probably the one that is more on point.
The reason why, I think, that the situations aren’t parallel to an AT&T situation is that we’re not dealing with a necessary item – phone service is much different than strolling to AFH for recreation.
But antitrust rules can be argued to apply, just like with pro sports leagues. A clear difference is the educational piece, the non-employment aspect of the athletes voluntary participation. Many more complications than in a pure pro sports league (including the bleed over to funding everything from tennis to intramural soccer to marching band to black hole research). The mission of the NCAA is much different than the NBA. That’s undeniable. And it is a mission that benefits millions of students, employees (professors), the public (research, medical centers, etc.), and alumni.
Further, the availability of competition also dispels the monopoly notion when one considers the availability of other facilities and infrastructure, the freedom to negotiate other monetary agreements (TV deals), the lack of predatory tactics by the NCAA, etc.
Here’s a great example … say a new pro league came into play, and was to pay possible CBB players $75,000 per year. Then, the NCAA, in response, gave CBB players money in that ball park. That might change the monopoly analysis to me. But if the NCAA retrenched, didn’t react, stuck to its formula, that’s about as anti-monopoly as it comes. Monopolies also buy and consume competition. The NCAA really can’t do that.
Again, excellent point.
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The biggest thing for me in this trial was that the undercover agent involved seemed to be very influential in bribing coaches. The government fronted a good chunk of money to do it with too. Coercion as a defense at this point seems legitimate.
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@kjayhawks Nope and Puke’s crooked lawyers will manipulate all they can to prevent Puke from facing bad press or damage their precious brand. Puke does whatever it wants and they have someone or a group of people protecting them. Remember what K said? This whole thing is a “blip” to him. Translation…we will not be harmed and this is no big deal because I have immunity. It was a stupid slip. Then he corrected himself and covered his comment. That little word “blip” meant they are dirty, but they will not get caught.
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@HighEliteMajor Hitler? Sorry, can’t go that far. Hitler murdered and or gassed to death millions of innocent people. As far as I know the NCAA has not and does not order the death of anyone.
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Nonathlete college students are gouged just to get a degree to be able to have a normal life so I will never have concern over athletes who get it free. I’m definitely not concerned about the 1% of the athletes that can wait 1-2 years to be MILLIONAIRES. This is all a waste of energy and time.
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Sorry I mentioned Hitler. I apologize to anyone that might have sensitivity on that one.
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Marco said:
@HighEliteMajor Hitler? Sorry, can’t go that far. Hitler murdered and or gassed to death millions of innocent people. As far as I know the NCAA has not and does not order the death of anyone.
I agree. Of course, though, I didn’t mention Hitler.
But I think we know what was meant by that reference. @drgnslayr was not suggesting they were the same. It’s just a way to emphasize the point, so you can perhaps dispense with the dramatics. But we all can appreciate the history lessons, and statement of the obvious.
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@HighEliteMajor sorry about that, got you confused with @drgnslayr who I took no offense to.
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@Marco No worries … I’m a little protective of my man @drgnslayr.
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I don’t remember it happening here before, but I’ve been told every internet argument will ultimately reference Hitler. Lol we’re the real internet now!
Godwin’s law (or Godwin’s rule of Hitler analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1”;[2][3] that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends.
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Gosh… I’ve got egg on my face! I’m going to counter my previous post by mentioning Gandhi. Bring some light to the darkness.
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@drgnslayr Nice! His great (Great?) granddaughter was one of my wife’s bridesmaids. Still pretty gentle genetics.
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@drgnslayr I wasn’t arguing, trust me. I rarely argue, too damn good at it. You didn’t offend me in the least. What was it that The Boz said the NCAA acronym stood for, National Communists Against Athletes?
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Interesting development…
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drgnslayr said:
Gosh… I’ve got egg on my face! I’m going to counter my previous post by mentioning Gandhi. Bring some light to the darkness.
Lol - - What kind of egg my friend? – Raw - - Scrambled lol
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Gorilla72 said:
Interesting development…
Isn’t it true the government wanted you to testify against a bunch of head basketball coaches in this country and you wouldn’t do it?" Haney continued.
“No, I wouldn’t,” Dawkins answered.
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Happy trails, Sean… Personally, if I were him, I would have already resigned. I mean really, what’s the point unless you want to go out like Pitino.
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@Marco I think the point is he made $4 million last year in salary that he wouldn’t have made if he resigned. Miller won’t be catching on (and cashing in) somewhere else as a head coach anytime soon.
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@dylans Yep. He and his lawyers have done a great job of keeping him on as coach. He is making a ton of money and just milking it. If he gets fired for this nobody will touch him for a while so he better be saving his money!
