KU's next coach.
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Count me with those who would not enjoy a Tony Bennett style of play here. Some of the most boring ball I’ve ever watched. Now, it may not be the best reason but it’s definitely a reason.
If we’re gonna keep on playing the dirty game that everyone apparently is and has to play. May as well get Pitino. Surely he has figured out by now how to not get caught again… Lol. JK
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@Kcmatt7 You’ve just indicted Tony Bennett – well, in the loose way we’ve seen recent indictments at least. You brought up FFs.
Tony Bennett, with all the good teams he’s supposedly had, he’s never made the FF and made just one Elite Eight.
I think his style of play is what Bill Self used to want to do, but a bit more extreme. It’s what has held Self back in the past.
It can create regular season success, but when you’re offensively challenged, there in a much smaller margin of error – which is a big deal in a one and done format.
No doubt, an excellent coach.
But I have no desire for this type of approach. I want national titles.
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@HighEliteMajor In addition to wanting titles, I also simply enjoy watching fun, high scoring college basketball. We have been so spoiled over the years to have fun offensive teams to watch all season long. Watching 35 games that are played in the 50’s does not sound appealing.
I like offense. Think about the Chiefs. This team is SO much more fun to watch than the “Marty ball” of the 1990’s.
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@joeloveshawks And, a little known fact, you can play excellent defense while scoring a lot. It’s why Self’s statement about giving up points is just ridiculous. It’s all relative to possessions. If you score quicker, there will be more possessions. But you can still play good defense. There is not some innate connection.
More possessions is a longer game in a way, meaning there is more of an opportunity for the better team to demonstrate it’s dominance. Of course, there’s the discussion of bad shots, valuing possessions, etc., that we can’t ignore. But scoring the ball frequently creates a greater margin of error.
You can be terrific defensively and give up a higher points per game than a lesser defensive team. Again, it’s all relative.
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@HighEliteMajor Thing is, Bennett is doing what he is doing with mostly 3 star recruits or guys in the back half of the top 100.
Imagine what he could do with the major bump in recruiting he would get at KU?
Self was always a good recruiter. Bennett has done what he’s done with far worse players than Self did on his climb. I’d expect Bennett to absolutely dominate with better players.
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@Kcmatt7 I agree - I would take Bennett in a heartbeat. He has built a consistent winner without getting the top tier talent that has gone to Duke, and, to a lesser extent UNC, in the ACC. His teams play great defense. They haven’t been nearly as good offensively, which has caught up with them in the tournament, although this year’s UVA team can score and play at a faster pace. Averaging just 3 points less per game than KU, with obviously a much better defense. Would think that Bennett could recruit higher quality talent at KU - although he may well have more NBA talent on his team this year than we do…
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@DCHawker His ability to turn guys into NBA players is amazing to me. He has an eye for talent and is able to develop players.
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@Kcmatt7 So do you then think he’s a better coach than Self? That would be a good selling point. He’s had success in a better league.
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@HighEliteMajor I will let @Kcmatt7 answer for himself, but to your point, UVA has outright won the ACC 3 of the past 5 years (one 2nd place finish) and is tied for the lead this year - in a conference that has a lot more top tier talent and much stronger teams at the top (i.e., tourney champs). Doesn’t make him a better coach than HCBS - but pretty strong evidence that he is a damn good one - regardless of what one thinks about the style of play…
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FYI,
Current 2019 commits
Shedrick- #56, Morsell #58
2016 class
Kyle Guy- #37
Ty Jerome- #44
Jay Huff- #57
Deandre Hunter- #91
Braxton- Key #59 (transferred from Alabama)
2015 Class
Diakite- #32 (enrolled half a semester early)
2014 Class
Salt #356
Everyone but 2018 recruit Clark and Salt ranked outside the Top 100. It does seem like he’s done more with less but overall everyone in his rotation besides those two were highly regarded HS prospects
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 So do you then think he’s a better coach than Self? That would be a good selling point. He’s had success in a better league.
It is a tough question to answer. I think he COULD be. But he might also be worse.
However, his floor is by far the highest of any other hypothetical candidate out there at the moment. And, his ceiling is definitely high enough to win a NC. Which, to me, makes him a safe hire that would certainly protect the legacy of KU basketball.
I just don’t want to be the new UCLA. Or Indiana. A has been program holding on to decades old accolades and finishing in the middle of the pack.
Sacrificing a little bit of ceiling height to ensure the floor doesn’t give out is important to me.
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BeddieKU23 said:
FYI,
Current 2019 commits
Shedrick- #56, Morsell #58
2016 class
Kyle Guy- #37
Ty Jerome- #44
Jay Huff- #57
Deandre Hunter- #91
Braxton- Key #59 (transferred from Alabama)
2015 Class
Diakite- #32 (enrolled half a semester early)
2014 Class
Salt #356
Everyone but 2018 recruit Clark and Salt ranked outside the Top 100. It does seem like he’s done more with less but overall everyone in his rotation besides those two were highly regarded HS prospects
Fair enough. They still don’t finish absurdly high in any team rankings nationally when recruiting. But most likely that’s because they keep 4 year players and only need to replace roughly 3 guys a season.
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To answer your previous question. I don’t think a Final 4 would change my opinion on Bennett. A title may sway me but its a Championship. At that point I think it would be stupid to not recognize him if he did win it this year.
I think his group of kids he has developed for this year is his best yet but its taken 3-4 years to get this core group here. He does this every couple of years imo getting his core to the top. I think he’s proven he can sustain success year in and year out which is a big selling point for him. Tournament success is still his monkey on his back. That 1st round historic loss will always be there. Imagine the pressure this team will face this year in March to get the first out of the way.
Whatever coach does have to take over for Self it will be incredible pressure.
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I didn’t include his 17 or 18 hauls which have done nothing outside of Clark who’s playing big minutes as a 300+ ranked recruit. Definitely agree, his classes don’t get the national attention UK/Duke/KU get.
Also great points about having a coach sustain what we have and living with whatever shortcomings he might have in certain areas that we are used to being strengths at KU.
I think Bennett has adapted some on offense this year since he has a squad that can score. Their 3 main guys are as good as any in the country
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Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor Thing is, Bennett is doing what he is doing with mostly 3 star recruits or guys in the back half of the top 100.
Imagine what he could do with the major bump in recruiting he would get at KU?
Self was always a good recruiter. Bennett has done what he’s done with far worse players than Self did on his climb. I’d expect Bennett to absolutely dominate with better players.
I think your fighting as losing battle here from what I see as fa as having Bennett at KU - -thank GODI don’t think we will ever have to worry about that happening. – And what he is doing is NOT making it to final fours there is not a lot of people willing to put up with that type of offense - - it’s a snooze - -nobody wants to see that - -like is mentioned here from other posts - wanting to see scores in the 70-80-3 not upper 50’s to low—mid sixties
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@jayballer73 I’d rather watch that than watch us lose. Bill Self didn’t have a FF before KU. Roy Williams didn’t have one either. Bill Self played a boring style of basketball when he got here. Sometimes he still does.
Winning is the most important thing. Period.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@jayballer73 I’d rather watch that than watch us lose. Bill Self didn’t have a FF before KU. Roy Williams didn’t have one either. Bill Self played a boring style of basketball when he got here. Sometimes he still does.
Winning is the most important thing. Period.
Well thank GOD were not goin to have to worry - -I’ll still take Bill anyday - and you can have Tony - -and then we will worry about it IF and when that comes. - -Still don’t think for the ones that DON’T or wouldn’t want him here - -will have to worry about that happening - -just don’t see them taking him here. - -As far as style - -I mean if your into watching boring ball then good for you – just not my thing - -wake me up when it’s over lol
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Kcmatt7 said:
Winning is the most important thing. Period.
I wholeheartedly disagree. That’s why I’m still hopeful Bill Self comes out looking better at the end than he does now.
I genuinely thought he was above reproach and a winner. Now he’s just a winner. I want that good feeling back. I don’t know if it’ll happen or not.
As for Bennet, KU could do much worse, but I’d prefer someone else at this point.
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dylans said:
Kcmatt7 said:
Winning is the most important thing. Period.
I wholeheartedly disagree. That’s why I’m still hopeful Bill Self comes out looking better at the end than he does now.
I genuinely thought he was above reproach and a winner. Now he’s just a winner. I want that good feeling back. I don’t know if it’ll happen or not.
As for Bennet, KU could do much worse, but I’d prefer someone else at this point.
Well if that’s your criteria, being “clean”, there aren’t many options.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m ok with that.
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I’m actually ok with every coach found to be in the least bit implicit in breaking the fundamental rules of amateurism/NCAA being banned for life. Especially if it’s going on here with MY team! Kick all the cheaters out, but don’t miss a single one.
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dylans said:
I’m actually ok with every coach found to be in the least bit implicit in breaking the fundamental rules of amateurism/NCAA being banned for life. Especially if it’s going on here with MY team! Kick all the cheaters out, but don’t miss a single one.
Would require a fundamental change in the NCAA, and then becoming willing to completely take all money out of college athletics.
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And even when Wooden was doing his thing, that wasn’t enough to keep money out.
That or changing the rules to accept what is currently “cheating”.
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@Kcmatt7 How about just enforcing the rules on the books? Seems like that would make for an even playing field. I’m not of the opinion enough people committing a crime should make it legal.
And here begins the slippery slope of your core beliefs vs mine and I don’t want to go down that road. It likely doesn’t end cordially or belong here so that’s where I’ll leave it.
Cheers
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dylans said:
@Kcmatt7 How about just enforcing the rules on the books? Seems like that would make for an even playing field. I’m not of the opinion enough people committing a crime should make it legal.
And here begins the slippery slope of your core beliefs vs mine and I don’t want to go down that road. It likely doesn’t end cordially or belong here so that’s where I’ll leave it.
Cheers
Do you not think laws should ever change?
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HighEliteMajor said:
Who in their right mind would rather coach Texas CBB than Kansas?
Someone who is an alum of Texas like Beard. Rick Barnes also showed you can win huge at Texas so it wouldn’t shock me to see Beard in Austin very soon since their new arena opens in 2021.
It’s the same reason why the Self to OSU rumors were common early in Self’s tenure.
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Kcmatt7 said:
dylans said:
@Kcmatt7 How about just enforcing the rules on the books? Seems like that would make for an even playing field. I’m not of the opinion enough people committing a crime should make it legal.
And here begins the slippery slope of your core beliefs vs mine and I don’t want to go down that road. It likely doesn’t end cordially or belong here so that’s where I’ll leave it.
Cheers
Do you not think laws should ever change?
Legalizing something because you suck at enforcing it is a bad reason to legalize something.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Kcmatt7 said:
dylans said:
@Kcmatt7 How about just enforcing the rules on the books? Seems like that would make for an even playing field. I’m not of the opinion enough people committing a crime should make it legal.
And here begins the slippery slope of your core beliefs vs mine and I don’t want to go down that road. It likely doesn’t end cordially or belong here so that’s where I’ll leave it.
Cheers
Do you not think laws should ever change?
Legalizing something because you suck at enforcing it is a bad reason to legalize something.
Is enforcement really the problem? They are an organization with no subpeona power
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@Kcmatt7 Yes, enforcement is a problem because the NCAA has a history of not enforcing their own rules equally across the board. That’s an issue.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@Kcmatt7 Yes, enforcement is a problem because the NCAA has a history of not enforcing their own rules equally across the board. That’s an issue.
Because it’s almost impossible to do. I mean there is no benefit for schools or players to cooperate and they have no ability to get the info they need in order to enforce the rules.
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@Kcmatt7 That doesn’t mean you legalize something. It means you figure out a way to enforce your rules. As long as the NCAA considers itself amateur sports, they need to figure out a way to enforce their amateurism rules.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 The issue is virtually impossible to solve because the NCAA does not have investigative authority over 3rd parties. Even if players were allowed to make money from their own fame, that doesn’t address people who steer benefits to families independently.
Free agency in the pros shows us that there are few people, even those in 8-digit income brackets, who aren’t willing to try to get more. The NCAA can’t stop players’ families and hangers-on from profiting and trying to influence a kid.
Solution? No freaking clue.
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@mayjay The solution is pretty easy, make the punishment so severe getting caught makes it not worth it. I.e. lifetime ban for players and coaches. That or execution I’m not sure which would work better. (Which is why while disappointed about Silvio’s situation I don’t think it’s all wrong as long as other players and programs are punished equally across the board…I’m looking at you Zion.)
If things prove to be as corrupt as believed here, I’m over college sports. There is no pride, no true joy in winning by cheating. I don’t cheat in solitaire why would I enjoy screwing someone else over?
Even if the other party is cheating, that doesn’t make it acceptable. That’s how I live my life, I’m not sorry if it’s too high of a standard for these supposed roll models and community leaders to achieve.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 It can’t be done. They screwed themselves by letting outside money in. Shoe companies and TV run the NCAA and it’s institutions. Not the other way around. It’s a complete farce. A facade.
The only way to enforce it now is to strip TV rights from schools/conferences. And develop a generic apparel brand that provides all gear for the schools. If that happened, the NCAA wouldn’t exist because they couldn’t justify giving more money to one school over another. And therefore the P5 would leave. And the P5 and their fanbases are the sole reason they have a $1B a year TV deal for the NCAA tournament.
The NCAA doesn’t care about amateur athletics. And there is nothing amateur about D1 sports anymore at all. Even the Olympics recognized it was an issue once too much money came in and sponsors all wanted a piece. So they adjusted their rules to encourage compliance.
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Tony Bennett to the FF. Honestly hard to believe some wouldn’t want him as the coach.
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@Kcmatt7 I don’t want Bruce Pearl.
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Tony Bennett gets over the hump like Bill did in 2008. Bennett wouldn’t be my first choice but if you want a similar coach to Self. He is the best bet IMO, both are excellent regular season guys that haven’t always performed well in the tournament. I think Bennett has embraced a little bit of offense this season and its paying off.
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@Kcmatt7 I may retract my opinion on Bennett. I’d still stick with Beard #1. But I’m in retreat mode on Bennett.
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dylans said:
@Kcmatt7 I don’t want Bruce Pearl.
Pearl is a walking violation. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets violations at Auburn too.
I heard Emmert’s interview with Seth Davis. This biased and unfair investigation the NCAA is wagering, against KU, is horrible. I don’t care what KU has done, the NCAA is not going to lead the investigation against all “suspected” programs. Emmert said, “We’ve suspected these violations were taking place and now we will apply severe punishments.” They are so biased and I’m for investigations and punishments against violaters. My concern is, how fair and consistent will the investigations be? and how “severe” will the punishments be against the violating teams?
What teams do they choose to investigate? What violations do they choose to punish? What punishments do they apply? Right now, KU has been given a horrible punishment against SDS by making him ineligible this year and next? WOW! AND…they are not done yet imposing punishments. IF Self leaves this program with violations, I will NOT be a Self fan.
Basically, KU is set to being the example for all the other cheaters. I have not heard a word about Arizona. Emmert said they didn’t want to have this hovering over the tourney. How nice! I don’t think the NCAA has done any investigations, nor will they. They do not intend to because they will end with KU and maye a few other lesser blue bloods. They have their scapegoat. KU will be the SMU of college bball. Brace yourself KU Nation. This is not looking good at all. We can forget SDS’s appeal. They have a blue blood to take the fall. The message will be that no matter who you are, you will be punished.
Charles Barkley admitted during the pre-game show. Teams cheat, cheating, and will cheat. Question is, will the NCAA be consistent with investigations and punishments? JOKE
Good to see TT advancing and representing the B12.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 I may retract my opinion on Bennett. I’d still stick with Beard #1. But I’m in retreat mode on Bennett.
I think either would be a fine option for sustained excellence.
Self, assuming he is still coaching KU next season, could stand to watch nothing but TTU tape over the summer for defensive scheme ideas.
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I hope recruiting hopefuls ignore this coaching banter completely. If they do, I hope they ignore it completely. We need stability, not instability. We don’t need to be throwing stupid coaching plans out at this point.
But this doesn’t look good at all. I don’t think we’ll get Hurt…pun intended.
Hurt said this week, while preparing for the McDonald’s game, that he would announce his college decision on April 19 — a day before his 19th birthday — and he will be choosing between KU, Duke, Kentucky and North Carolina.
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Talking about who is replacing Coach Self is crazy - - he isn’t going anywhere. - -Unless Ku shoves him out - -not even worth talking about - - sure seems some pretty sure he is leaving - -SMH. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 He’s not going to be here forever and circumstances like this years have caused other coaches to leave. It’s worth speculating about because it could happen.
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wissox said:
@jayballer73 He’s not going to be here forever and circumstances like this years have caused other coaches to leave. It’s worth speculating about because it could happen.
not likely -a lot better - - we can worry about it if and when IT HAPPENS - -he leaves - -he leaves - -were gonna be ok either way - -I’m sure there are other Coach’s that would be just fine and would be willing to come IF that happens.
Seems like we did just fine when Larry left with a Coach that had NO head coaching experience.- - - I’m not to concerned. - - BUT I’m not gonna sit around and fret till we hear something a little more serious then fans scuttle butt - -and play the what if. - -that’s like me saying WHAT IF I become the POPE tommorrow
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We still down on Tony Bennett?
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I’d take either of these guys in a heartbeat.
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Kcmatt7 said:
We still down on Tony Bennett?
Nah, but does he get to keep the ACC refs I’ve been hearing about?
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@dylans it’s funny and sad when you think about it but going back ACC teams to 1991 Dook vs us, ACC teams get the whistle. I remember being bored a few years ago while on nights and watching that game for the first and only time (wasnt even 3 when it happened) and found myself yelling at the TV in a game that I already knew the outcome.
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@kjayhawks That’s probably when my deep seething hatred for Duke began.
Lol I had a couple interns last summer who started talking trash in KU. I let them as it doesn’t make me any bigger being twice their age and their boss. But I threw in a (I thought) fairly safe ok, but I absolutely can’t stand Duke (not that nicely though). The next day that bozo was wearing a ratty old Duke shirt. He’s a huge Duke fan (and KSU fan too, the depths I sink to to get help). I grilled the other helper (his HS best friend, both from small town KS mind you) to find out if he was for real or just messing with me. He was legitimately a Duke fan. Yikes, open mouth insert foot. But then I let him have it in a more good natured manner and all was well.
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Kcmatt7 said:
We still down on Tony Bennett?
LOST TO A 16 SEED THO :p
