Doke
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Figures just another season with a big man injury or eligibility issue. Same crap every single season
Double whammy this year…
This and every year in recent memory. It’s not just a pattern anymore
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I really have lost hope. If Dedric looked better at isu, I’d feel better, but he’s our only hope and he stunk. Can’t even catch a ball. This is the first time I’ve been a Debbie downer.
I know you’ll continue to support the Hawks but I get what your feeling. The season’s ceiling just dropped to the floor unless these guys rally around each other. I know my expectations for the season now have changed dramatically but I’ll enjoy watching them and hope for the best
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Agree with you here.
Cut the rotation down especially as the team is on winter break and can focus on a set rotation for the next few weeks.
Dave needs to play now. Lightfoot has a role now as well.
Time for Self to show off again. This may be his toughest assignment yet
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I really have lost hope. If Dedric looked better at isu, I’d feel better, but he’s our only hope and he stunk. Can’t even catch a ball. This is the first time I’ve been a Debbie downer.
When Crims is out you know it’s bad!
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Oh my goodness. The gnashing of teeth …the wails from the dungeon. We’re going to have to play our McDonald’s All American freshman center …ohhh, the horror!
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I really have lost hope. If Dedric looked better at isu, I’d feel better, but he’s our only hope and he stunk. Can’t even catch a ball. This is the first time I’ve been a Debbie downer.
if you think he stunk before then you better put some nose plugs on the ol nose for the rest of the season - he will be lucky to even see the ball - he will be doubled tripled every time he touches the ball - - that’s IF he touches the ball - - maybe we ought to give you a shot at that position see how well you could catch the ball be double teamed and got guys swiping at the ball and pushing on you - - ya - -that’s it – I would love to see how well you would hold up
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Not really sure where Azubuike’s career goes from here, honestly.
He’s not NBA ready. Nothing in his game suggests significant improvement in any of the areas he needed to improve in from last year to this year. He’s also injury prone, which is a huge red flag for a guy with his size.
That suggests in my mind that Azubuike returns to Lawrence next year for his senior season.
But the injuries also create another issue. Udoka Azubuike has not improved at the rate anyone was hoping because he has missed so much time with injuries. He is still extremely raw and unrefined. There’s a good chance that McCormack surpasses where Doke is at while Doke recovers from this most recent injury. There’s the possibility that KU brings in another big that is more skilled. There is a possibility Doke isn’t the best center on next year’s team if he does return.
This injury is just a very sad overall situation for Udoka Azubuike personally. There’s a decent chance he never reaches his full potential now - his shooting touch may never progress. He will have some options overseas, but I think the door to the NBA may have closed for him.
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It’s not as if she didn’t have a point though. The lack of athleticism on Dedric really showed Saturday. He struggled and the gameplan for ISU worked perfectly on him for the most part. Perimeter players must do a much better job putting the ball in spots he can go get it because he’s not athletic enough to just throw it up there and let him get it. I thought we did a poor job among many other things adjusting to how Dedric was guarded. He can make plays with the ball away from the hoop but we seemed set on forcing it inside to see 3 guys swarm him. This gameplan reminded me of How Jay Wright took Perry Ellis out of the game in the Elite 8. Just my two cents
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@justanotherfan I think Doke will be able to make a comfortable to a nice living playing overseas. I never really thought he was a NBA player and nothing he has done in his limited time this year suggest he is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he does declare for the draft next year and then end up overseas instead of coming back though. I don’t see what he can gain from coming back, and with his injuries he might as well start trying to earn money sooner than later.
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@BeddieKU23 Excellent Nova reference. And to combat that, you have to get your big out on the perimeter, so he can drive and dish if jumped by other defenders (seems perfect for Dedric). Inside screening action is basic to working against that inside. Moving to the free throw line. Back screening high. Standing on block won’t cut it. If Dedric is in fact the best passer ever in the history of mankind, he should have no trouble passing out of a double on the block, to a cutter to the hoop (if we actually employed that strategy – brings me back a few years and the discussion after the SDSU loss at home). This is a critical option for team that doesn’t shoot great. We have to attack the hoop out of those double teams low.
All is not lost. But Self has to really attack the “attacks” on Dedric aggressively. He completely blew the Nova game with Ellis. Can’t put lipstick on that pig. But we have what’s before us. And this team – still – can beat anyone (it may now take the right night against some teams though). We should still have optimism – yes, I’m talking to you @Crimsonorblue22.
Remember, we are still in the hunt for the NC until we lose in the tournament. And that’s a long way off. You never know what he next 2 or so months will bring.
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What’s interesting about how ISU attacked Dedric is the fact that gameplan was probably meant for Doke who’s a poor passer in general.
Once Doke was out they gambled sticking with it on Dedric but it was really effective especially as the momentum of the game completely got away from KU the last few minutes of the first half and carried over.
Dedric looked frustrated by the physicality and the amount of bodies swiping at him. He certainly had his moments where he was able to impose his will but they never felt like plays that were going to bring KU back to win. We’ve seen Dedric make a lot of plays from the high post or initiating from the perimeter and I’ll have to rewatch but that didn’t feel like something we tried to do on Saturday. Rarely does Self get out-coached but Prohm was able to get the best of Bill Saturday.
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justanotherfan said:
This injury is just a very sad overall situation for Udoka Azubuike personally. There’s a decent chance he never reaches his full potential now - his shooting touch may never progress. He will have some options overseas, but I think the door to the NBA may have closed for him.
He’s already reached his potential. He has zero touch, which if you’ve been around the game is NEVER learned or improved dramatically. He is severely athletically limited, which also isnt improvable. I actually hope he isnt back next year because he just clogs up the offense.
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justanotherfan said:
Not really sure where Azubuike’s career goes from here, honestly.
He’s not NBA ready. Nothing in his game suggests significant improvement in any of the areas he needed to improve in from last year to this year. He’s also injury prone, which is a huge red flag for a guy with his size.
That suggests in my mind that Azubuike returns to Lawrence next year for his senior season.
But the injuries also create another issue. Udoka Azubuike has not improved at the rate anyone was hoping because he has missed so much time with injuries. He is still extremely raw and unrefined. There’s a good chance that McCormack surpasses where Doke is at while Doke recovers from this most recent injury. There’s the possibility that KU brings in another big that is more skilled. There is a possibility Doke isn’t the best center on next year’s team if he does return.
This injury is just a very sad overall situation for Udoka Azubuike personally. There’s a decent chance he never reaches his full potential now - his shooting touch may never progress. He will have some options overseas, but I think the door to the NBA may have closed for him.
your not going to have to worry about any scenario -next year I’m marking it right here - -right now he will not be coming back to KU next year, the reason being is why? - I’ll say this one more time - -he will be a D league or G league player IF any NBA team drafts him - -with his history of injury - - - with the lack of any kind of shot - with his durability lacking he won’t keep up in a NBA pace of up and down the floor - -why would he come back? - - for what ? - -he is not going to improve enough to change NBA executives decisions Doke is an old fossil in the modern NBA - -oh MAYBE just MAYBE some one MIGHT draft him , but more likely then not if he is going to make any money it will be over sea’s somewhere - but the one thing you can count on his him NOT returning to KU - it’s just not worth it really - - for ANYONE
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BeddieKU23 said:
It’s not as if she didn’t have a point though. The lack of athleticism on Dedric really showed Saturday. He struggled and the gameplan for ISU worked perfectly on him for the most part. Perimeter players must do a much better job putting the ball in spots he can go get it because he’s not athletic enough to just throw it up there and let him get it. I thought we did a poor job among many other things adjusting to how Dedric was guarded. He can make plays with the ball away from the hoop but we seemed set on forcing it inside to see 3 guys swarm him. This gameplan reminded me of How Jay Wright took Perry Ellis out of the game in the Elite 8. Just my two cents
true - -but no one said she didn’t make a good point - -and so did I - simply stating the obvious - -you think it was bad Saturday ? - you haven’t seen nothing yet.
Kind of like when I mentioned about KJ here and yet nobody seems to think that might work - - think it would work just as well as any other possible line up that people have mentioned here - just as reasonable
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I know we often forget that players have nothing to come back to school for but Doke could certainly come back and graduate and have a chance to end his Jawhawk career on a high note as so many others have done in the past. Right now it looks messy but leaving KU with a degree wouldn’t be the worst thing for someone who came to this country to improve his quality of life.
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@jayballer73 - if (IF!) Doke could get his free throw rate up significantly to say 75-80%, I’d have to think he’s a good NBA backup player. Even our beloved Embiid isn’t hanging around the 3 point line now but is playing more inside. I’d think he could find a niche to fill there, even if he doesn’t go in the first two rounds. And I think he’d kill it overseas somewhere.
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@BeddieKU23 That is my feelings exactly. If he continues to be this injury prone, a diploma would be worth a lot. Plus he could continue to be a part of the team, which he seems to enjoy. Even if it would be in a backup role, I would welcome him back. Can not have enough bigs, which we are finding out. A roster of Doke, DMac, and Mitch, would still be extremely thin, unless we can sign another power guy.
We need Dedric to come back and/or get Hurt on the roster, which I am not expecting.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I like the Dotson/Garrett in idea, but in reality, that’s just it. Dotson is more of a threat and keeps the D guessing. You put Garrett out there and the D will simply pack in the lane daring Garrett to shoot.
I would have his butt in the gym shooting 50 arc shots a day. He needs to hit a minimum of 20/50 or better before he leaves. I would add Vick and Grimes to that shoot around too.
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@Big-Clyde52 handlers
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@Big-Clyde52 Crystal Ball has Hurt at 70% lean toward KU. The rest are in single digits.
https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Matthew-Hurt-90273/RecruitInterests/
Jerry Meyer 247Sports Director of Basketball Scouting 98 / 123 (79.67%) 880 / 1184 (74.32%) KAN 2/7/18 12:44 PM
Andrew Slater The Devils Den 82 / 101 (81.19%) 622 / 820 (75.85%) KAN 6/6/18 1:27
Evan Daniels 247Sports Director of Basketball Recruiting 85 / 88 (96.59%) 158 / 167 (94.61%) ?
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truehawk93 said:
@Big-Clyde52 Crystal Ball has Hurt at 70% lean toward KU. The rest are in single digits.
That’s more a product of Hurt’s recruitment being something he hasn’t taken seriously until recently. We might have landed him if he announced during the summer. A lot has changed since then though.
Follow the visits- Kentucky, UNC. KU supposedly in February according to his last update. KU recently watched him play so they are still pursuing. If he officials we must knock it out of the park on/off the court with him.
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@BeddieKU23 I’m aware of UNC and UK. I really appreciate Ol’ Roy respecting our recruiting. UNC and Roy have come on strong, but I think Self had Hurt on the U17 team. He knows Self and it’s an advantage over the other coaches. I feel good about Hurt knowing Self and not taking Cal and Williams’ word for it either. They can’t pull any recruiting stunts against KU.
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@truehawk93 That has probably already been done. And 50 is not near enough. Supposedly they worked on that all summer, but it sure does not show any good results.
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@BShark Crimson is just feeling blue right now. She’ll be back.
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@Big-Clyde52 Evan Daniel will be a huge indicator when he makes his prediction. But Meyer has predicted most all of KU’s recruits. if Daniel predicts Hurt to KU, count it.
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Big Clyde52 said:
@BeddieKU23 That is my feelings exactly. If he continues to be this injury prone, a diploma would be worth a lot. Plus he could continue to be a part of the team, which he seems to enjoy. Even if it would be in a backup role, I would welcome him back. Can not have enough bigs, which we are finding out. A roster of Doke, DMac, and Mitch, would still be extremely thin, unless we can sign another power guy.
We need Dedric to come back and/or get Hurt on the roster, which I am not expecting.
A few things to add. If Doke returns and recovers from this injury he’d be Option #1 in the offense unless something crazy happened next season. He was option #1 this season when healthy so I would expect he’d start and be a focal point of the offense once again.
The injury certainly puts a cloud on his career here. He missed most his freshman year, he was healthy for most of his Soph year then wasn’t 100% to end it, and now he’s going to miss the bulk of his Jr year. Each season he has single handily changed the direction of KU’s season. So if he returns will he get hurt again, that’s the risk I guess and I get the concern of having him on the squad and wondering will he ever play a full season?
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@truehawk93 I sure am hoping. We need some good news to bring everyone out of this funk we are in. Also hoping McBride, Braun, and Ochai, can push everyone next year, and be better shooters. Will not be any help this year however.
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@Big-Clyde52 Now I wonder if Ochai stayed instead of RS, what if? Oh well, no sense second guessing. We could sure use some firepower.
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truehawk93 said:
@BeddieKU23 I’m aware of UNC and UK. I really appreciate Ol’ Roy respecting our recruiting. UNC and Roy have come on strong, but I think Self had Hurt on the U17 team. He knows Self and it’s an advantage over the other coaches. I feel good about Hurt knowing Self and not taking Cal and Williams’ word for it either. They can’t pull any recruiting stunts against KU.
I’m glad your feeling optimistic about Hurt. I hope we land him and I hope we sit in a better place then it looks currently. Who knows how much the trial will have an effect on his recruitment. Most ran from KU after which is no surprise. I don’t think we’ll know one way or the other until after the season with him though is my guess.
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Self and Ochai/parents have talked about removing his red-shirt since Doke’s injury news. Can’t see it happening though since he’s been out with a stress fracture injury. He isn’t exactly ready to contribute
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@BeddieKU23 Yes. Especially since KU was NOT on trial. The judge even made it clear. But people can’t get that out of their head. Now many believe KU is guilty. Most do not even know the judge said ADIDAS was trial, not players or even programs. Emmerts even said NO program will be punished.
I don’t get it at all. I have more objectives based on facts but little time to type. If we are innocent, why doesn’t Self play SDS. He obviously knows something or believes something about SDS’s case and is choosing not to play him. Puke is sure gambling with Williamson. I hope the FBI has all kinds of trash on Puke right now.
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He also said in order for them to burn his RS they would have to make it worth his while. So the fact that they are talking about it makes me think the stress fracture wouldn’t be a issue.
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@BeddieKU23 That is why I hope DMac will make huge strides the rest of this season and surpass Doke to be the starter. Still would like him for a backup if he can stay healthy. He really needs to graduate because of his health concerns. Does anyone really believe he can stay injury free in the NBA or overseas? I guess we need to weigh the good or bad of him taking up a scholly. Like I said, at this time our roster looks awfully thin next year. We need bodies.
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@BeddieKU23 Removing? What’s the rule on conference play and redshirting? It’s so many games into conference play? 2-3 games?
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If Ochai enters a game his red-shirt is gone. Unlike Football where you’re allowed up to 4 games of play now.
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I think we’re about to find out how much Dave can help us going forward. No question his role just expanded as much as Self will allow it. I think the expectation was Doke was going to leave after this year and Dave got a year to be groomed by a Veteran (Doke) so he’d be prepared to take over next season. We’ve seen flashes from Dave and he doesn’t lack in effort or size so I’m optimistic he’s got enough time now to carve a role with this team. He’s got a lot of pressure now to produce because Dedric can’t do it alone in the post and KU doesn’t have the personnel to lean on a 4 guard lineup. Dave could literally be the key to the season.
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For an athlete to receive a standard redshirt, the NCAA requires that player not be involved in any competition for the year he is redshirted. Any amount of competition time, even 1 minute on a basketball court during a regular season game, for example, counts as a season of eligibility.
Redshirted athletes are allowed to travel, practice and even dress for competition for their team during their redshirt season, but the minute they step on the playing field, they lose their redshirt status and use a season of eligibility.
I think he needs to play. He would give us another gun. I haven’t heard much of his shooting. He’s been hurt too?
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@BeddieKU23 Totally agree. He will have around 20 or so games to prove his worth. Hopefully he can make similar improvement to what SDS did when he got his shot.
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If Ochai can step on the court any game, let’s see how we develop with Big Mac. Let’s see how the shooting improves. Self loves that minimal rotation of 7-8 players. My guess is we will see a lot of small ball and Lightfoot gets some Doke mins. I don’t see Self changing much. Lightfoot will give us FTs. He is capable of keeping the defense honest too.
Dotson/Garrett
Grimes
Vick
DLaw/KJ
Meeotch/Big Mac/DLaw
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Just go 4 guards and a tight rotation at this point. Grimes, Garrett, Dotson and Vick all for 40 minutes a game. Dedric for 30. Big Dave for 10. Moore if someone has foul trouble.
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If ochai can shoot and his leg is healed, rip that sucker off. I think he can dunk too.
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Ochai is a 6’5” guard, recovering from a stress fracture. I’m not thinking he will be much help.
Doke should at least be able to help coach Big Dave. That’s something…
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@HighEliteMajor Optimism is good! So, to set a good example, perhaps we could change that one negative sounding word in your 3rd paragraph so it reads “unless we lose in the tournament,” yes?
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@mayjay Works for me …
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How old is Doke? That guardian or handler will have to help him. He’s awfully young!
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5th year Ochai is more valuable than freshman Ochai will be. This team needs to figure its own problems out. There is no savior in waiting.
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Gorilla72 said:
Ochai is a 6’5” guard, recovering from a stress fracture. I’m not thinking he will be much help.
Doke should at least be able to help coach Big Dave. That’s something…
Read the article on Ochai - -and I think this might actually happen , and at this point I think it could very well happen.
From what I remember Ochai - is 100 % all in for KU - -seems like I remember on some kind of situation he stated he was more then willing to do what he could do to help the team. - -I think he would give up his red shirt if asked. - - I also think his parents will back him 100 % - I think they totally love the school also.
Coach Self said they were for sure thinking about it , BUT hadn’t made a decision - but reading between the lines - -I think I get that feel that this is going to happen - at this point I’m all in - I think he can help = =might work as they are talking about going that 4 guard lineup again - here is hoping. - -ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t think the RS gets taken off Ochai but I could be wrong. He’s probably better than KJ right now and can shoot but…as Bill said playing in a game is totally different.
I am very intrigued to see how the team comes out against TCU.
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@BShark I agree. The good news is we get TCU at home and then @ Baylor who is not very good. Hopefully they can find something and build on it in the coming games. Jan 19 @ WVU and then the return game with Iowa St on the 21st loom large.
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truehawk93 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I like the Dotson/Garrett in idea, but in reality, that’s just it. Dotson is more of a threat and keeps the D guessing. You put Garrett out there and the D will simply pack in the lane daring Garrett to shoot.
I would have his butt in the gym shooting 50 arc shots a day. He needs to hit a minimum of 20/50 or better before he leaves. I would add Vick and Grimes to that shoot around too.
The defense wouldn’t be able to pack the paint like that with Dotson and Vick on the wings. Dotson is going to be a very good 3 point shooter, but he’s not where he do what Mason or Graham did to create their own shots. Dotson needs to be set right now. Defenses that pack the paint with Vick and Dotson would regret that decision because Garrett with the ball would create more space on the perimeter for our only good shooters to operate and get off open looks.
If defenses still pack the paint, Garrett can drive for a layup, he can make those, or a kick out to open Vick or Dotson or a lob to Dedric for an easy basket.
