FBI...here we go
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it’s Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
Lol apparently you’ve never worked in politics. Everything is spinnable. For example, Townsend is simply speaking about figuring out how to do it legally. “Some way” doesn’t mean against NCAA rules at all. It doesn’t have nearly enough context to draw any kind of certain inference. The federal government maintains KU was not complicit in any illegal activity.
No context = no intent.
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@FarmerJayhawk Agreed. If that was what it would take to get him to KU, it is obvious that we didn’t do it.
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Without context it is hard to tell what the gist of the entire conversation was; it is interesting and telling it was not admitted as evidence. In any case, KT never mentions money just says:
"I’ve got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that’s what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we’re going to have to do it some way."
He could easily explain it away by saying he was talking about legal, NCAA compliant means rather than cash and because KU/Adidas would not pay Williamson did not come to KU…Duke, on the other hand, now has some 'splaining to do.
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I mean that is a terrible look for Duke as well. It’s fairly clear they met the demands of Zion and his family.
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Lol Coach K saying he wasn’t worried about it… Jay Williams said on air he was paid while at Duke and everyone else he knew was paid. He said his former agency paid Kevin Love’s AAU Coach $250k.
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@Kcmatt7 it obvious Duke and UK are forking out some serious cash, I believe they are the only schools that have signed multiple top 25 recruits the each last 10 classes. If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
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kjayhawks said:
If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
Actually, it’s a car full of cash and they all got to keep the car - a BMW, I believe.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-even-dare-investigate-zion-williamson-now-hes-duke-043518120.html
Good article here by Wetzel…
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@Woodrow That first quote of KT’s does tend to look bad, but I am puzzled by something.
He is talking to Adidas, which has been providing cash to players. So why does KT say he himself has to work something out rather than simply suggesting that Adidas work something out?
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@mayjay Because Zion’s Dad also wanted a “job” and a car. So I am assuming KT had to go to the boosters to try and secure those…
Also I just read where Zion’s family is living in a $800,000 house outside Durham.
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@Woodrow Link?
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@Woodrow I’m sure Zion’s parents were saving up!
@Kcmatt7 Internet rumor mill, but it probably isn’t wrong.
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@Woodrow Wouldn’t he have said something more directly on point? And couldn’t Adidas, willing to float hundreds of thousands of dollar, arrange for a car and job easily enough?
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@mayjay I am not going to pretend to understand how this business of recruiting works, but I would think ( and have heard) that it is usually the team that sets up housing and cars.
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
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Woodrow said:
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
And have nice new cars. Plus a cushy job that is completely legal and not directly attached to KU in most cases (Ronnie Chalmers an obvious exception here).
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Tyshawn’s mom worked at Hyvee, angel was an apt complex manager, cole’s dad worked here. None were cushy jobs.
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@Woodrow Thank you very much for sharing this article. It brings up a very very interesting question.
IF KU really truly offered Zion illegal benefits then how and why did he end up at Duke? He just really wanted to play at Cameron for the one year he is required to play before going pro? Something to think about.
I have personally always assumed that the major programs “cheated” to get the top guys, KU included. I have also always assumed that the major programs with the major players are what fans want to see and this is how the NCAA makes the most money. Based on this I highly doubt that the hammer is dropped on KU or Duke or Zona or anyone else involved in this current situation. Where would the investigation go from here? What about football? That is the more lucrative sport and there is simply no way that the top programs are “clean”.
It is an unfortunate reality as a fan but life is full of unfortunate realizations. I will personally watch every game this year as I always do. It may be a bit more tainted now that the veil has been pulled away but it is what it is. Real life is hard and I personally need the escape of college basketball.
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@Woodrow Incidentally, every single story I have seen on this conversation is based entirely on Dan Wetzel’s tweets. Since TV was prohibited from this trial, did Wetzel record the reading of the transcrpt on his phone? Try to transcribe it? I know how hard it is to accruately transcribe in real time–my hearings were tape-recorded and I often had to replay the tape to get it accurate.
Assuming Wetzel did not have a recording or access to the transcrpt itself, the quotes he tweeted might have been truncated to make KT sound worse. But that is only one possibility–the actual words could also have been much worse.
And the transcription could also have been inaccurate. Unlikely, but I had a military client who contended that his record of trial was inaccurate. I asked him how so, and he said that in the 45 pages covering his guilty plea, he had really said “no” every time the judge asked if he did something alleged in the indictment, and they just ignored him the whole time. He denied drawing the map showing his crime, he denied signing his confession, he denied agreeing to his plea bargain…
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@Woodrow Very good read and I agree with it. They have let Coach K and Dook do whatever they pleased for decades based off of his image. I don’t think the NCAA has the balls to take down a high profile coach like that.
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@kjayhawks Not only Coach K but Duke as a program. You take away all the blue bloods and the market for the game and tournament plummets. You know what else plummets… The money!
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@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
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@Woodrow Yep, they ain’t gonna bite the hands thats feeding them. They can say they are for the athletes or who ever but they are about money just like everyone else in this world, not limited but including our government.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
Absolutely. I didn’t mean to imply that it only goes on at KU. It is wide-spread.
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@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
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mayjay said:
@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
Well it’s not just the elite players getting paid.
The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.
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Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
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mayjay said:
Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
I would say they want it in the dark to maintain the facade of amateur athletics. More people stay happy this way and the players still get paid if they want to.
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@mayjay More compensation from whom? The NCAA is not going to compensate anyone and hurt their bottom line. People have been beating this drum forever, and they have taken a lot of heat the past couple of years and have not really budged.
If you are talking about other entities like shoe companies I think it is as simple as they want people to believe the sports are amateur and pure.
I mean just on this board there are people that still believe that so I guess it is working…
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As a follow-up on the walk-on thing. The walk-ons are part of the team, and live in the same area as the rest of the players. Elijah Elliott’s dad has a ton of money, and his kid, a walk-on, took visits to KU, Arizona and UK. It certainly never hurts to have walk-ons with wealthy parents. Those kids are going to have lots of money, and, you know, probably spend it with their friends.
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The NCAA is like a woman who marries a really rich guy(the top colleges). She basically with a wink and nod gives him permission to cheat on her but he better not flaunt it, be seen in public, or get caught. She is all about the lifestyle he gives her but still wants the mirage of a perfect marriage to brag about to her friends and family. Now if the jackass breaks one of the previously mentioned rules then “Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned”.
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On the trial itself the jury is hearing closing arguments today.
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@Woodrow I am so glad not to have to listen to that stuff. Many people think judges’ instructions just confuse the hell out of everybody, at least those who can stay awake!
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@mayjay From everything I have read the judge does not seem to be thrilled to be hearing this case.
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@BigBad oh brother!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Is that from Barnes? Lol if so.
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@BShark yes
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark yes
Yeah, that’s a bit silly coming from him considering Durant and the recruiting hauls Tennessee is getting lately.
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@Crimsonorblue22 and??
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@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark I could totally see a scenario where Rick Barnes is like actually a boy scout. But like so naive (or maybe its ignorance) that things are going on behind his back he thinks he’s clean lol.
I mean imagine what Texas boosters were doing behind his back for him. And Nike. But he probably thinks he didn’t have recruits put in his pocket lol.
Hmm, I could buy that. Texas definitely pays though, I have zero doubt about that.
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@BShark I know UT pays. I just think Barnes may be about as clean as you can be. While still getting players who were paid on your team lol
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Just for the sake of discussion, let’s say this trial ends in an “innocent” verdict. Does the FBI move on to try the remaining assistant coaches? Or is their entire case not worth pursuing (assuming it’s still about defrauding)?
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@Gorilla72 I’d think not.
I also think the worst thing that could happen is this going through the appeals process and dragging all of this out longer
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@Gorilla72 That might depend on what they learn from the jurors.
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Maybe I have an incorrect definition of “defrauded”, but it seems like the teams who were “in play” for player but lost out due to, shall we say, better offers - aren’t those the the teams defrauded? Of course, that assumes a player would have definitely attended a different school if it weren’t for “the offer”. (All those 90%+ guys on Crystal Ball that suddenly and oddly picked a different school, for instance, at the last minute.)
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Adam Zagoria Verified account @AdamZagoria
‘Kansas’ Head coach knew of and asked for a payment to be made to Silvio de Sousa’s handler.
‘Coach Self and Coach Townsend knew of and asked Adidas to make this payment to Fenny.’
-Michael Schacter, Jim Gatto’s attorney 11:47 AM - 18 Oct 2018 from Manhattan, NY
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That’s part of the closing argument. Witnesses said differently under oath obviously.
