FBI...here we go
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It seems like the coaches knew about payments. The good news is that Gassnola testified that he didn’t think the Kansas coaches knew. So I believe it will be hard for the NCAA to hang anything major on Kansas.
I’m disappointed in Kansas too, but I’m also disappointed in the You-Have-To-Be-19-Years-Old-To-Play-In-The-NBA rule, and the NCAA model that’s driving these kinds of behind-the-scenes payments. A highly ranked basketball or football recruit is worth more than a one-year scholarship. Some of them are worth a lot more than a one-year scholarship, but that player’s market value is being restricted by the NCAA while and even before that player attends a university. These top athletes are very valuable to Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, etc. even as teenagers because they have the potential to be the next LeBron James or Steph Curry or insert NBA Super Star and sell a bunch of shoes and merchandise. As universities are allowed to sign large multi-million dollar contracts with these apparel companies , there is a major incentive for Adidas to direct top recruits to Kansas, or Nike to direct top recruits to Kentucky or Duke. A commitment of a player to a branded university is a major step in a commitment of a player to a brand, though not always (see: Joel Embiid and Under Armour).
So all of you here probably know this, and you might reasonably say that nobody is forcing these kids to go to college. The major problem I have with this is that college basketball is by far the best way for a high-profile recruit to showcase their talent and get drafted into the NBA. In the 2018 NBA draft, 52 out of the 60 players taken played college basketball. The 8 that did not, I’m not totally sure, but am willing to wager that none or a small fraction of them were American-born. What I’m saying here is that a high-profile recruit who doesn’t choose to go to college can seriously jeopardize his NBA draft position and potentially miss out on being drafted or lose millions of dollars down the road due to lack of media exposure and NBA teams not wanting to take a chance on an unproven recruit. In short, I don’t like that the NCAA monopolizes high-profile basketball recruits due to a lack of alternatives for that recruit other than college basketball and at the same time restricts their true market value.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich josh Jackson, under armour as well.
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Unless Gassnola perjured himself, nobody under the KU banner knew.
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@FarmerJayhawk Do you really believe that?
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What am I missing? I just don’t see any thing that even resembles any NCAA rule breaking or the law. I would certainly expect Adidas to help KU with recruiting as part of the sponsorship deal. If Adidas is not going to help then why sign with them? I am sure Nike and Under Armour do their best to steer kids in the direction of programs they sponsor and as long as they do not do any thing that breaks NCAA rules or the law, it is all good…why wouldn’t it be?
Otto von Bismarck said…Laws are like sausages. Better not to see them being made…which would also seem to apply to recruiting. There is a good deal of action going on that we really don’t want to see but it is the reality of recruiting.
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The Gary Parrish article is pretty good tbh.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich it doesn’t matter what I believe. What incentive does he have to lie? Making coaches aware of payments isn’t illegal. Perjury is.
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@FarmerJayhawk Agreed which is why I said I don’t think KU will get into any major trouble here. But I still am disappointed.
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One and Done
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World Wide Wes - Zero investigations
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Shoe Companies running rampant
Perfect Storm
I’m honestly ready for REAL student athletes again. Let the “studs” go pro out of high school. If they are not drafted I DON’T CARE! Go to Europe or join the real world. Guys will argue they should get reinstated. No way. You do that and the next market is agents who will sign kids they know wont make the NBA right out of high school then herd them to colleges with who they have relationships. So replace the current shoe companies with slime ball agents.
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I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
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approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
WE ALREADY KNOW THIS
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approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
The texts involving self are new.
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approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
Yeah everything today was known, it’s basically just being confirmed with evidence.
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BeddieKU23 said:
approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
The texts involving self are new.
But still just confirming previous claims that Gassnola chatted with Self/KT frequently.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
The texts involving self are new.
But still just confirming previous claims that Gassnola chatted with Self/KT frequently.
I had no issue with that part however the texts do imply a lot more involvement with Self and thats just sad. Oh well onward and upward
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The shoe companies pay universities millions, and they do a huge amount of recruiting for them. none of this comes as any surprise. Is the Adidas rep supposed to recruit a player and not discuss them with the coach? As long as Bill and staff aren’t facilitating payments, it has nothing to do with us if the athlete and the shoe company make an arrangement. Look back at Dook …for years, they could not recruit a big man to save their life. Now, they get the top 3 front line players, after having lottery pick Bagley and lottery pick Wendel Carter on their front line last year. Nike recruited them, and handed them to Dook. Alot of this nonsense will end once they allow athletes to go pro out of high school.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich If Bill was “in the know”, then why did Billy’s mom go to such lengths to avoid detection? Why would she tell her son to lie if Bill knew? Why would the Adidas guy make such an adamant point to proclaim Bill’s innocence on the subject in court, under threat of perjury? Unless you have something we don’t know about, it would appear you are speculating. My take is…nobody threatened Bill with not playing Preston. Preston wasn’t declared ineligible. He wasn’t “ordered” to not play him. When something came out, he made the family prove it wasn’t an illegal benefit, which they couldn’t. And Preston didn’t play a second, even though he could’ve helped us alot. That doesn’t seem to me like a guilty guy who doesn’t care about the rules, nudging and winking at the Adidas rep over a 2,500 payment to Silvio. So, do you really think Bill would involve himself in something like that?
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Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.
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@KUSTEVE And as nutty as Billy’s mom appears you’d think she would have zero issues blaming Self and KU.
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@kjayhawks Good point. She even blamed all the fans for having suspicions!
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mayjay said:
Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.
Self will be fine at the end of this unless something new and crazy comes out. Which I do not expect to happen.
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Its simply optics anyone is worried about. That’s all. Nobody is shocked. Most people probably realize it happens at all the schools. It doesn’t appear Self broke any rules. But it also just doesn’t look good.
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Optics don’t win basketball games. This whole deal is actually pretty good timing considering the season starts in less than two weeks and then people forget by signing day.
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I’d say Self is fine at this point, Gassnola probably wouldn’t lie under oath to protect Self. He has no reason too. As @KUSTEVE said why was Billy’s mom trying to hide her payments from Self and KU if he already knew. Once Gassnola was a AAU coach that has a lotta connections, every D1coach has a guy in the background doing recruiting. I’m ready for this to be over and the NCAA to change stuff so this doesn’t happen again.
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To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.
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SkinnyKansasDude said:
To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.
This is a great point. If KU were to field a team of players that didn’t take money, they’d be the worst team in the B12.
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@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn’t care if you don’t leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn’t when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today’s game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn’t care if you don’t leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn’t when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today’s game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.
Of course. Don’t ask, don’t tell.
I’m sure KU players paid for their brand new car totally on their own though. A lot of stuff that happens is totally legal like the parents of players being employed (and overpaid) by alumni but not directly attached to the university.
Agree, college athletics have been dirty the entire time. All the way back to the 40s or w/e. We know Wooden was dirty and like you said UK as well.
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@BShark So, apparently lack of money explains the football team, perennially last in the Big 12. Nice to be the honest ones!
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@BShark you think hidden gems like DG and frank were paid?
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Adam Zagoria Verified account @AdamZagoria 23s24 seconds ago
Update from the trial: defendants Gatto, Dawkins and Code all elected not to testify
Jury will hear closing arguments Wednesday- Thursday and could reach a verdict as early as Thursday. Otherwise it will go into next week.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Definitely paid by someone. Butler CC football players find envelopes of cash in their mailboxes.
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@JayHawkFanToo Great Movie!
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It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it’s Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
What is there isn’t anything KU hasn’t done before, it’s just KT saying he will get it done is a bit dicey, imo.
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Also in that thread, Will Wade incriminating himself. Very interesting that these weren’t allowed in court.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it’s Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
Lol apparently you’ve never worked in politics. Everything is spinnable. For example, Townsend is simply speaking about figuring out how to do it legally. “Some way” doesn’t mean against NCAA rules at all. It doesn’t have nearly enough context to draw any kind of certain inference. The federal government maintains KU was not complicit in any illegal activity.
No context = no intent.
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@FarmerJayhawk Agreed. If that was what it would take to get him to KU, it is obvious that we didn’t do it.
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Without context it is hard to tell what the gist of the entire conversation was; it is interesting and telling it was not admitted as evidence. In any case, KT never mentions money just says:
"I’ve got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that’s what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we’re going to have to do it some way."
He could easily explain it away by saying he was talking about legal, NCAA compliant means rather than cash and because KU/Adidas would not pay Williamson did not come to KU…Duke, on the other hand, now has some 'splaining to do.
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I mean that is a terrible look for Duke as well. It’s fairly clear they met the demands of Zion and his family.
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Lol Coach K saying he wasn’t worried about it… Jay Williams said on air he was paid while at Duke and everyone else he knew was paid. He said his former agency paid Kevin Love’s AAU Coach $250k.
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@Kcmatt7 it obvious Duke and UK are forking out some serious cash, I believe they are the only schools that have signed multiple top 25 recruits the each last 10 classes. If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
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kjayhawks said:
If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
Actually, it’s a car full of cash and they all got to keep the car - a BMW, I believe.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-even-dare-investigate-zion-williamson-now-hes-duke-043518120.html
Good article here by Wetzel…
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@Woodrow That first quote of KT’s does tend to look bad, but I am puzzled by something.
He is talking to Adidas, which has been providing cash to players. So why does KT say he himself has to work something out rather than simply suggesting that Adidas work something out?
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@mayjay Because Zion’s Dad also wanted a “job” and a car. So I am assuming KT had to go to the boosters to try and secure those…
Also I just read where Zion’s family is living in a $800,000 house outside Durham.
