FBI
-
@KUSTEVE Remember, unfortunately the “victim” status is based on people defrauding KU into believing the players retained eligibility. If we were victimized, by implication the players were not eligible, and that always leads to sanctions against a program. Even harsher sanctions get imposed if there is a finding that our not knowing was due to lack of adequate control or inquiry (but the cautious handling of Billy would suggest we were diligent when a red flag appeared).
-
@mayjay Cliff situation too.
-
@approxinfinity 1. He based that on the fact that the fall indictments were all about addidas funneling money to players and/or families, and we are addidas’ flagship program. Did you miss all the posts here that discussed the same fears?
And 2. If any participating players were ineligible, yes, there will be sanctions, and, yes, there will be vacating of victories and F4, and return of tourney money.
Can you recall any instances where a team did not face sanctions where so much money was involved involving a player participating in a number of the team’s games, especially throughout the tournament?
Everyone thinking we won’t face sanctions is forgetting that the inducements here were to go to KU, not just get an “in” with the family a la Cliff. I think it unfathomable that the NCAA could ever let that go, lest schools continually cry “We didn’t know!” while reaping the benefits of ineligible player participation.
The best thing that could happen for KU would be for the defendants to plead guilty in a deal that leaves the documents sealed so the NCAA has nothing to go on.
-
@mayjay Auburn, Cam Newton.
-
@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.
-
If KU played an ineligible player (Silvio) should the wins be vacated?
If Kentucky played an ineligible Davis should their title be vacated? The games were played and outcomes determined by the players, but what if some of the players shouldn’t have been playing? Even a roll player, like Silvio?
This whole deal sucks. Dammit Adidas.
-
BShark said:
@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.
What power would you like it to have? They basically make sure college athletic departments playing in their sports are not cheating.
If a player takes shoe money outside of the college what do you want the NCAA to do? Should they have FBI like power?
If a school(UNC) creates easy classes that ANY student can take and basically cheapens their institute of learning what power should the NCAA have?
Everyone blames the NCAA and bad mouths them. How about these punk kids who think they are pros go put their skills on the real free market and go to Europe and play for a year. Go cry to the NBA about not being able to try out for a year after graduation. It isnt the NCAAs fault you cant get paid.
-
@BShark The Cam case might seem to be an outlier, but the money sought by his dad was from Miss State, and he never went there. Auburn had a good case that Cam did not participate in any discussions, and that his father was not authorized as his agent. We all suspected that it was unlikely Daddyo steered Cam to Auburn without a similar incentive, but there was no evidence.
And a big difference (true for Cliff, too): the NCAA investigation was not instigated by a criminal indictment backed by FBI subpoena power.
-
@BigBad It is not their fault that the players face the OAD rule, but it is their rule that the players cannot get paid (by anyone other than the school, and not beyond the schollie and “cost of attendance” stipend).
But the member schools created it, and if they don’t like it they can get rid of either the NCAA or its rules. I would make a strong guess that most schools, over 250 of whom are from non-power 5 conferences in Div 1, are happy with the restrictions facing the powers in recruiting and player benefits. And further, that they would be really unhappy if the NCAA were to not sanction ineligibility just because of a fear that the practice is widespread.
-
I can’t wait on the football findings, It would make the basketball stuff seem like small potatoes.
-
chriz said:
Do they make you take down your banners? Do they make you stop printing back-2-back-2-back-2-back etc. t-shirts?
In researching the USC case (my post about vacating their loss to Texas in 2006) the article stated that the USC media guide was required to include the info about their 2004 championship being vacated. I don’t know the context, but I would speculate that schools can mention their successes but must include any info about sanctions vacating those.
We could see, perhaps, if Villanova, Michigan, UMass, Memphis, or Louisville have banners with an asterisk.
T-shirts? Interesting problem: can they prevent the sanctioned schools from licensing copyrighted and trademarked logos and slogans (e.g., Rock Chalk, KU, University of Kansas, Jayhawks)?
-
Isn’t NC St probably scared out of their britches more? The Indictment indicates a coach on the staff passed along the money to Dennis Smith Jr? Not that they have a Final 4 to be worried about but that certainly seems more troubling? No?
What do you make of the allegations involving coaches that happened in the first round of this in relation now to these reports.
How is a school or the NCAA for that matter supposed to vet something that was explicitly concealed from them. It took the FBI to find this out. Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?
-
BeddieKU23 said:
Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?
The NCAA cleared him. Unless coaches or university knew he got paid we cant be held accountable.
-
Why don’t we have boosters give all the Duke and Kentucky guys $20K apiece and make them ineligible (if that’s how the findings go)? Recruiting espionage.
-
I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn’t directly involved or aware.
This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I’ll be surprised to see us vacate anything.
-
dylans said:
Why don’t we have boosters give all the Duke and Kentucky guys $20K apiece and make them ineligible (if that’s how the findings go)? Recruiting espionage.
Funny you bring this up…
How hard would it be to be a fake source ala Sean Miller? What if the alleged tape of him is a complete fabrication by Adidas to f with a nike school? Arizona is dead now.
-
-
@BigBad Yea that’s the solution to the problem…
-
Kcmatt7 said:
I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn’t directly involved or aware.
This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I’ll be surprised to see us vacate anything.
This is where I’m at with it.
-
@Kcmatt7 You know what I’m sick of? The soft bigotry of low expectations. I’m sick of the media and fans bad mouthing the value of an education. I’m sick of these players going to 2 plus years of college and not being able to speak proper English. You hear coaches talk about holding them accountable on the court, well how about in the classroom? How about teaching these kids REAL life lessons that most if not all of them are not going to make enough money from basketball to provide for themselves until they die at 85. The idea that you get a valuable degree first to set yourself up, then if you are good enough, playing pro ball as a bonus is gone. Whats even sicker is a lot of these kids have parents who teach them to grab the first pile of dough they can and dont worry about the future.
College basketball is becoming gross. I need a break.
-
Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn’t afford?
It seems like if he didn’t have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.
-
BigBad said:
@Kcmatt7 You know what I’m sick of? The soft bigotry of low expectations. I’m sick of the media and fans bad mouthing the value of an education. I’m sick of these players going to 2 plus years of college and not being able to speak proper English. You hear coaches talk about holding them accountable on the court, well how about in the classroom? How about teaching these kids REAL life lessons that most if not all of them are not going to make enough money from basketball to provide for themselves until they die at 85. The idea that you get a valuable degree first to set yourself up, then if you are good enough, playing pro ball as a bonus is gone. Whats even sicker is a lot of these kids have parents who teach them to grab the first pile of dough they can and dont worry about the future.
College basketball is becoming gross. I need a break.
Are you 80 years old?
Completely disagree with this take except the last bit about the parents. Most of the kids are majoring in basketball, no need to be delusional about why they are there. Kids like Mitch are the exception at major programs.
-
drgnslayr said:
Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn’t afford?
It seems like if he didn’t have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.
lol
-
drgnslayr said:
Did our coaches know that Preston was driving around in a car he couldn’t afford?
It seems like if he didn’t have the little accident, Preston would have played all year and nothing mentioned of the car.
It’s a good thing he stubbed his toe (i mean tire) then.
What would have been worse is KU not investigating the car after the incident and ignoring the flags right there. We have to feel pretty good now that KU will always put its program above a single player in that regard.
-
I wasn’t able to read all 140 posts. Obviously if Billy Preston is involved, and it was known (due to him being suspended) that he accepted money, I find it hard to believe Self would be naive about this happening to others on his team, given that he’s been around the block a time or two before. I’ll argue he may not have done enough to stop this systemic (perhaps 3 players already identified over the course of the last few years) influence of agents within the program. He may not have known anything directly, so can take the stance of a victim, thankfully.
-
@BigBad Oh your argument is beyond tired.
-
@Kcmatt7 What is my argument that is so tired?
-
Does anyone still actually think college basketball is amateur athletics?
-
@KUSTEVE Ya your right we didn’t. - I need to talk to Coach about that - -I love me some strippers lmao - I mean JUMPIN - - GEE - -HOSSA - -FATS - I bet Granny would be really mad though. - -sorry bud - poor timing on trying to put some humor on this - but if I don’t I sit and think and try and over analyze this and just get super P- - - - - - so I went to my happy place - - thus - -Strippers lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@approxinfinity Clown is putting it mildly. - he is an absolute joke. - The indictment says the University is a Victim - nobody knew about this going on - The University - -The Coach Or Staff is not connected with this in anyway - Now Silvio guardian? - different story - and I’m not so sure about Silvio not knowing anything about this - hope I’m wrong - I’m afraid we have seen the last of Silvio on the floor and that sucks
As everyone knows I do my trolling other boards but NOT TODAY I don’t even begin to want to check UK fan boards - -they like Parrish assuming a lot - an hoping - HATERS HATE- people like him just sit back and wait like a Vulture for anything bad at KU to happen. - as do the UK idiots
-
@HighEliteMajor Maybe you had best wear your old worn out golf shoes until all this Big Shoe mess is unveiled. If you plan to buy some Nikes, talk to the store manager to see if an agreement can be made to return fairly new but worn Nikes, just in case that noble outfit goes down, too. Heck, KU might even be a Nike school in the not too distant future. Or perhaps the University will go with Red Wing!
-
@mayjay The games would be stripped of would only be the games he played in and not all tourney money would be foreited
-
@BShark THANK YOU ! ! ! ! !
-
So what are you guys saying? F it pay them? Do you think Self and co. should be involved? Is this where we are?
-
@BigBad Well in one aspect of it they already are being paid. - - How? - by getting that full ride schlorship , now fully understand that this is renewable every year as it can be taken but ya their paid that way. Think if it hasn’t already in place that they do receive a small amount for living expense - could be totally off but thought I had heard that some where - but was being tossed around about the possibility of getting more - Different ways of getting quote unquote being paid
-
Also the “poor inner city kid” the media always uses as an excuse to pay them are all eligible for a Pell Grant. So they have room, board, tuition, food, a stipend, and a pell grant. Poor guys. I dont know how they survive being so exploited. Oh and on top of that if they end up sucking they can get an education that at least makes them employable and a network of alumni that always helps ex-athletes.
-
@BShark no need to get personal, we’ve got people of all ages here, 80 is just a number.
-
@BigBad I’m not going to repost my entire response from another thread. But if it bothers you enough, don’t watch it. Simple problem.
If you think the Universities are getting used by these kids, especially the OADs, you have it completely backwards and there is no convincing you otherwise. Put in the same shoes as those kids, you would be making the exact same decision and I guarantee it.
The money isn’t the same as it was in the 90s. The sport has exploded and salaries have nearly quadrupled, completely outperforming inflation. You could earn enough money playing for 5 years at league minimum now to live comfortably the rest of your life. And some of these guys only have 5 good years in them. Wasting 3 of them in college doesn’t make sense.
-
There is clearly a market for these players. That’s really all that needs to be said.
-
If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn’t have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn’t have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.
Agree.
Also that the rules apply to only athletes is part of what makes it so stupid. There is nothing stopping a music major from performing a concert and making money off that.
-
A few salient points to consider.
First, KU is listed as a victim which at first sight would indicate lack of culpability or perhaps it is the FBI’s way if saying we will call KU a victim until we can prove someone in the programs was involved.
Second, the indictment mentions that KU has additional steps in place to insure accountability by parents and/or guardians which go beyond what the NCAA requires.
Third, KU chose not to play Preston even when he was at the time officially cleared by the NCAA which would indicate an abundance of caution.
Fourth, Silvio and/or guardian were not paid to come to KU. Apparently Under Armour paid his guardian to go to Maryland and the Adidas money was used to repay Under Armour so he could go to KU which is whe he wanted to go in the first place and for no pay.
All the above show lack of intent or knowledge by KU despite the steps in place to ensure compliance which bides well for KU, particularly if no one in the program is proven to be involved. Now, if someone connected to the program was involved or aware it changes everything.
-
Billy Prestons mom only had to wait months!
go to the G league, overseas, get a job, don’t ruin our program for 
. Do the the Mitchell Robinson route. Seems to me billy was enjoying his time at KU, I blame his moms. Go ride the bus in the g league and eat sack lunches and play in little gyms w/ zero fans. Do it! Does KU have any legal recourse on the people that sign those papers illegally? I’d be surprised if Silvio knew anything about that exchange. Jmo
-
Hmmm … how about if a recruit takes $50,000 from UA to go to Maryland. Tells them to stick it. Goes to KU. Keeps the money. What is UA going to do about it? Maybe that’s where Guido comes in.
-
Bills response last night. Nothing big other than he doesn’t think himself or a coach will be named.
-
Yeah I really don’t see how Silvio knew about it, because it sure reads like he put a wrench in the plan by wanting to go to Kansas.
No idea on Billy, but we all pretty much read the bad vibes coming from his mom from the jump.
-
REHawk said:
Heck, KU might even be a Nike school in the not too distant future. Or perhaps the University will go with Red Wing!
I think it’s high time Zips makes a play for the college athletic market. Or maybe Kangaroos.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
If the NCAA would just let them fetch endorsements in the open instead of creating rules that caused this black market for recruiting to take place, we wouldn’t have an issue. People want to pay the players, let them get paid. It would cost the school, literally, nothing.
Even if the NCAA allowed it how do you resolve the kid wearing NIKE at an Adidas school with Adidas jerseys? Not against it but it would be interesting.
-
Oh and BTW I’m only 44 not 80… LOL
-
Sorry for getting a little chippy earlier btw.
