Sweet 16 Games
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@justanotherfan It almost sounds as if you’re defending Calipari…and on a KU fan board! Just giving you a hard time. As you noted, my initial response was due to the word “always”. I never meant to imply that Calipari isn’t a really good coach. He assembles superior talent year after year. His teams “usually” do very well in the tournament. I cant deny those facts no matter how much i dislike him or UK. However, i will point out that he has lost a few times in the NCAA when he was the higher seed. It doesn’t matter if that was as a 1 seed or a 7 seed. It also doesn’t matter if he lost in the 1st round of the NIT (i still smile when i think about it) or the Elite 8. A loss to a lower seed implies his team wasn’t ready. In 2016 as a 4 seed he lost to a 5 seed (R32). In 2009 as a 2 seed he lost to a 3 seed (S16). In 2006 as a 1 seed he lost to a 2 seed (E8). Go back to his UMass days and he lost 3 times as a higher seed. And lets not forget that for all the superior talent and 5 star guys he has recruited to Kentucky, he only has the 1 championship. NOTE: No malice intended or implied in this response!
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justanotherfan said:
Agreed that 1 seeds should get a more favorable path, but by virtue of some upsets, KU has one of the tougher remaining paths - only Villanova will have a harder road. But that isn’t really anyone’s fault, except the top seeds that stumbled along the way, clearing the way for lesser (?) teams to step into that void.
As for Robert Morris beating UK, I don’t count that simply because UK had no real interest in that game. I know I am using selective memory on that, but a man wiser than me once told me kids don’t go to Kentucky or UNC or Kansas to play in the NIT, just like kids don’t go to Alabama, or Miami, or Florida State, or USC to play in the Texas bowl. You go to certain schools to have a chance on the big stage. If you’re not on the big stage, it’s hard to get or keep everyone’s attention, particularly when the guys that were going to jump to the NBA were already focusing on that, and the guys that were staying were already looking to the next year. It’s not like Kentucky fans were any more upset about losing in the NIT than they were about being in the NIT in the first place. As a KU fan, I think that we would be in the same place. I’m not even sure I would watch if KU was in the NIT.
Then the players should have been given the option of not playing like UCLA in '74 3rd place game or not accepted the invite.
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With all the talent he has recruited at UK, one can make a strong case that he has largely unperformed. His record might be marginally better than Coach Self but Coach Self has done it with much less talent. Since Calipari has been at UK, no other team has had nearly as much talent; maybe Duke comes close but not KU.
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You’re setting an almost impossible standard if you say a coach didn’t have his team ready if they lost to a lower seed. Calipari has lost as the higher seed 9 times in his 24 postseason trips. That looks bad until you start comparing it to other top coaches. Let’s take Coach K, Bill Self and Roy Williams, and look at just when they have had #1 seeds.
As a 1 seed (six times), Calipari has won a title, never lost to anyone seeded lower than 2, and has lost to another 1 seed three times. So Calipari has his 1 seeds ready half the time.
Self has also had six number one seeds. He’s never lost to another one seed, he has one title, but he’s also lost to a 2 twice, a three, a nine and an eleven. Self has his 1 seeds ready 17% of the time.
Roy Williams has had eleven #1 seeds. He’s got three titles, but his eight losses were to a pair of 4 seeds, an 8, a 9, three #2’s and two #1’s. Williams has his 1 seeds ready 45% of the time.
Coach K has had a one seed twelve times. He has four titles as a one seed. He’s also lost once to another one seed. The other seven times, he lost to a two seed (three times), a five seed (three times), and a four seed (once). So Coach K has his 1 seeds ready 42% of the time.
So for the 1 seeds of these coaches, Calipari is at 50%, Williams is at 45%, Coach K is 42% and Self is at 17%.
But I will be honest when I say that’s an impossible standard. If you’re getting to the Elite Eight as a one seed, you’re playing pretty darn close to expectation. That makes the ledger look like this instead - Calipari is 100%, Self is 83%, Williams is 72% and Coach K is 67%. That makes more sense to me than saying that four of the best coaches in the game today are all at or under 50% for getting their best teams ready to perform.
As to talent, it’s not like any of these four coaches can ever bemoan that they lack for talent. They all basically always have talent. And if they don’t, well, if you can’t recruit talent to Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas, maybe that’s not the right job for you. There’s no prize for winning with less talent. Part of a college basketball coach’s skill is recruiting because you get to pick your own players.
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As to talent, it’s not like any of these four coaches can ever bemoan that they lack for talent. They all basically always have talent. And if they don’t, well, if you can’t recruit talent to Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas, maybe that’s not the right job for you. There’s no prize for winning with less talent. Part of a college basketball coach’s skill is recruiting because you get to pick your own players.
That is not quite correct. Kentucky has had considerably more talent than any team not named Duke as shown by the number of players that have made it to the NBA and are thriving there…it’s not even close.Look at KU players in the NBA, other than Embiid, Wiggins, the twins, Jackson and maybe Oubre, the rest are second tier players which shows how god Coach Self Is winning with marginal NBA talent.
In the NBA coaches can indeed pick their players, provided the team wants to spend the money. In college, coaches don’t pick their own players, players pick their own coach.
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You make a good point about players picking their coach, as opposed to the way that I said it. Either way, recruiting is a part of college basketball. I don’t think it should be a knock to say that UK has more talent. Calipari is a great recruiter, and recruiting is a big part of the job of any college basketball coach. No one here is discounting our 14 straight Big 12 titles even though KU routinely has more NBA talent (marginal or otherwise) than every other Big 12 team, sometimes more than every other team combined. Self outrecruits the rest of the conference. That makes him a better coach because that is part of the job.
We laugh at Bruce Weber when he whines about not having as much talent. It’s not like I think Weber should get extra recognition because he doesn’t have as much talent. If you don’t have talent as a college coach, go recruit some. If you need more, go get more.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Kansas St vs Kentucky. Two teams playing great defense in the tournament. Kentucky’s edge in size and Dean Wade’s injury could be the difference for them.
That, and the fact that Liberace is a moron. Plus, they have the ugliest uniforms in the tournament. Possibly in the universe.
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@nuleafjhawk Those black shorts with lavender jerseys are THE WORST I’ve ever seen. Children’s YMCA uniforms are better. Baylor’s highlighters are better. The white vs. dark shirts guys wear at my pick up game are better. It’s astounding that anyone thought those would be a good idea.
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@benshawks08 I took a picture of my TV screen during the KSU-Baylor game just to show people that I know who aren’t sports fans how frickin ugly those uniforms are!!
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benshawks08 said:
@nuleafjhawk Those black shorts with lavender jerseys are THE WORST I’ve ever seen. Children’s YMCA uniforms are better. Baylor’s highlighters are better. The white vs. dark shirts guys wear at my pick up game are better. It’s astounding that anyone thought those would be a good idea.
Tell us how you really feel, Ben…
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Fran Fraschilla picking Clemson over Kansas on ESPN-U radio. So in other obvious news of the day: The sky is still blue. #KUhater
Have I mentioned how I feel about Fran?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Fran Fraschilla picking Clemson over Kansas on ESPN-U radio. So in other obvious news of the day: The sky is still blue. #KUhater
Have I mentioned how I feel about Fran?
I lose more respect for this man by the comment. Every comment he makes, causes me to lose even more respect. I’d say, I don’t respect his bball analysis or rep at all.
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@justanotherfan There’s a point where Coach Self’s coaching can take a team only so far, and then the team has to seal the deal. Coach Squid’s teams suck when they are in rebuild mode, so they make NITs, and 5 seeds. But when they’re a 1 seed, they’re really, really good. We make # 1 seeds with teams where we openly question how we’re even in the running for it ( like this year ). We never rebuild, so coach can take his 5 guys, and get them to win to give us a high seed every year. It doesn’t mean we’re one of the 4 best teams in the country - it means we have met the criteria in order to get a higher seed. Our schedule is normally really good, and our conference normally is considered in the top 2 or 3, so when you’re winning a great conference, that is going to go a long way towards seeding. This year it seems different in my mind. I think we have the talent and ability to win it all, even if we have warts. Now, I think we could use a little luck- maybe a Cuse upset over Dook…maybe a WVU or T Tech upset over Nova would help. But I have a great feel that this team will be playing for all the marbles…
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Who has churned out the most NBA talent?
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@dylans The “most”? Not KU. But the “best” according to that author, mostly because of the singular talent and career of Wilt!
Several other interesting articles in that link, by the way, if you scroll down.
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@mayjay I was quantifying the most talented starting 5 as the most talent. Not the highest total of 1st round picks. 1 seed baby!
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Interesting, KU playing with 3 centers. I imagine that if the seeding was based on current players in the NBA, the seeding would be different and several teams would not have 5 players.
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No UNC helps too.
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https://fantasycpr.com/2018/03/22/2018-ncaa-tournament-sweet-16-predictions/4/
This guy has some interesting takes.
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Seeing the TAMU we have seen most of the year tonight.
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Loyola!!!
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Come on A&M…you are not coming back from 20 down with just over a minute left, quit fouling.
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BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE
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LIBERACES ON FIRE!!!
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Bruce is going to get a lifetime contract if he wins this game lmao
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This is amazing. I hope they keep it up. Bruce to the FF!!! KU KSU NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!
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Have to hedge SGA or he will be in the lane all night long. Looks like they are going over the screener on him too. Go under on him for sure. If he is going to hit 3s, fine.
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To put KSU’s start in perspective…
Jeff (BPredict) @BPredict 7m7 minutes ago
Kansas State currently has a 110.0 eFG%. If they make a layup on their next shot their shooting efficiency will DROP.
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Knox looks like he developed a peanut allergy late in life and his pregame meal is a PB&J.
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Kstate peaked at the 15:00 mark in the first half
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Have you ever seen someone with such a forehead roll who wasn’t in Anaphylactic shock? I can never quit looking at it.
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This may turn into a free throw shooting contest the way this game is being called.
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Something about Washington rubs me wrong.
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Two on Knox. Go post him up.
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Meh, not wasting any of my good luck on KSU.
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K State came to play, good for them. I hope they beat UK so it is owned by both major Kansas programs.
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Probably one of the more surprising names to not be mentioned in the FBI reports was Leonard Hamilton imo. Recruiting out of his mind.
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Kcmatt7 said:
Have you ever seen someone with such a forehead roll who wasn’t in Anaphylactic shock? I can never quit looking at it.
Botox, maybe?
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Two blatant fouls on that KSU breakaway. Neither called… And UK fans complain NONSTOP about how they get boned by officiating.
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Question : if Silo Tech wins, does 'Tucky automatically get awarded 5th place in the B12?
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Can you imagine these refs calling a West Virginia game?
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@JayHawkFanToo “K State came to play, good for them. I hope they beat UK so it own by both major Kansas programs.”
This should help recruiting. When the worst team in Kansas beats the best team in Kentucky…
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@JayHawkFanToo “K State came to play, good for them. I hope they beat UK so it own by both major Kansas programs.”
This should help recruiting. When the worst team in Kansas beats the best team in Kentucky…
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Well…the worst team in Kansas now appears to be Wichita State.
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If is any consolation to UK fans, they can still beat MU…
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@JayHawkFanToo lmao…
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Kcmatt7 said:
Probably one of the more surprising names to not be mentioned in the FBI reports was Leonard Hamilton imo. Recruiting out of his mind.
Hamilton is a solid coach. There’s also an insane amount of talent in FSU’s backyard that they don’t land to not really make me doubt his recruiting. I would have been more surprised to see him on there than not.
Hamilton is an above average coach that most programs would take his track record in a heartbeat.
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Most FSU fans wanted Ham fired btw before this…
Now what do they do?
