Sweet 16 Games
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Yeah, but it is a lot further to Atlanta, which for some reason I initially looked up (corrected the location but forgot to correct the mileage). Should have thought that one through when I reread it! Thx
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4 Big 12 teams in the Sweet 16… who’d a funk it?
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The power conferences have flexed their muscles. ACC has 4, Big 12 4, Big 10 has 3, SEC 2, Loyola, Nevada, and 'Nova represent their conferences by themselves.
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@wissox You putting Gonzaga in the B10 now?
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I believe you misses the game where Gonzaga beat THE Ohio State. For the ACC to have 4 teams out of a 15 team conference is not the same as for the Big 12 with only 10 teams.
Look at the percentage of team in every conference in the Sweet 16 and you will see the Big 12 is flexing muscle more so than the others.
- Big 12 - 4 teams, KU, TTU, WVU and KSU. 4 out of 10 or 40%
- ACC - 4 teams, Duke, Clemson, Florida State and Syracuse. 4 out of 15 teams or 27%
- SEC - 2 teams, UK, Texas A&M. 2 out of 14 teams or 14%
- Big 10 - 2 teams, Purdue and Michigan. 2 out of 14 or 14%
- Big East - 1 team, Villanova. 1 out of 10 or 10%
- MVC - 1 team, Loyola. 1 out of 10 or 10%
- MWC - 1 team, Nevada. 1 out of 11 or
- WCC - 1 team, Gonzaga. 1 out of 10 or 10%
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The Big-12 could get 4 teams into the Elite 8, 3 into the Final 4 seems how Tech/West Virginia could meet in the E8.
The ACC could get 3 teams into the Elite 8 and 2 into the Final 4 seems how Duke/Cuse play and Clemson could play winner of the Duke/Cuse game.
Perfect year for the Big-12 to flex their muscle.
West Virginia matches up with Villanova just fine. 2 physical styles of play clashing.
Tech vs Purdue, advantage Tech after the Haas injury.
Kansas St vs Kentucky. Two teams playing great defense in the tournament. Kentucky’s edge in size and Dean Wade’s injury could be the difference for them.
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I’ve never liked Metcalf’s method for re-seeding. He only takes into account how the team has played in the tournament, rather than the entire season. Clemson looked great Saturday. KU looked okay. Teams that have won in blowouts get over-seeded in his re-seeding, while teams that won close games (but have had stronger seasons) tend to get seeded lower.
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Sounds like Metcalf is killing time by talking out his ass and hyping the east coast.
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Agreed. He does not really look at how tough the matchups were. If UMBC would have beaten KSU, it would probably be ranked top 3.
By all account, KU had the toughest first 2 games of any team and won booth of them. On the other hand UK, a #5 seed, can get to the Elite 8 having played seeds 12, 13, 9 and either 7 or 11 depending on which wins between Loyola and Nevada; in other words not a single seed higher than 7…I guess the squid can’t complain this year.
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I always have to give credit to Calipari, because even when he’s had really young, really raw rosters, his teams don’t just no show like Virginia did, or like Arizona did, or Cincinnati, or Tennessee. Kentucky went out and handled their business over the weekend, and now they are the best team left in that region. The only reason they are in this position is because other teams did not take care of their business, not because of anything they did (other than win).
KU could be a big benefactor of this should Duke misstep against Syracuse. Gonzaga looks like a big beneficiary as well with FSU knocking off Xavier.
But that’s more on the teams that lost (Virginia, Michigan State, Cincinnati, Xavier, Arizona, UNC, etc.) than on the higher seeds still remaining, and a credit to schools like UMBC, Marshall, Loyola and others for having a gameplan and the execution to win. Also, I would argue that Syracuse had the toughest two games of everyone remaining - TCU and then Michigan State. Nevada also had a tough road with Texas and then Cincinnati, and don’t forget about Loyola with Miami and Tennessee. Syracuse beat a team that lots of people thought had Final Four potential. I don’t know that you can say that about KU or even Loyola, though you probably can about Nevada. Texas A&M also had a tough road (Providence and UNC - Seton Hall is better than Providence, but UNC is much tougher than Penn).
It’s tough for a 1 seed to have the toughest road right now, because even an underseeded 16 is only a 13 or 14.
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@justanotherfan I think he meant compared to the other high seeds. Your point is valid though, the lower seeds that won certainly have gone through a gauntlet.
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@JayHawkFanToo @Kcmatt7 Yes, you’re right, forgot about that one.
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Teams I would be ecstatic about winning it all. KU
Teams I would be thrilled about wnning it all which is a step below ecstatic: Loyola
Teams I would be happy for winning it all. Gonzaga, Purdue, Michigan, TT, Nevada (because it would be so undexpected)
Teams I’m ok with winning it, but won’t throw a party. WVU, KSU, FSU, Clemson,
Teams I would not be happy at all winning it: Villanova, Texas AM
Teams I would be tempted to quit watching sports all together if they won it: Syracuse, Duke, Kentucky
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Sucks that we would possible run into Villanova in the final 4. As the two one seeds left that would make a better final than semi final. How do people feel about reseeding after the opening weekend. Jon Bois from SB nation had an interesting video breaking down some peculiar stats about the tournament that in my opinion really showed the need for reseeding. His point was the creators of the tournament have the choice between order and chaos and they purposefully choose chaos. In some ways it’s what makes March MARCH!@! but it certainly doesn’t do the best teams any favors.
If they were to reseed this year:
1 Villanova v 11 Syracuse (last team in) AND 5 UK vs 5 Clemson
1 KU v 11 Loyala Chi AND 4 Gonzaga v 5 WVU
2 Duke v 9 KSU AND 3 Mich v 7 TXA&M
2 Purdue v 9 FSU AND 3 TX Tech v 7 Nevada
Reseed again in the final 4
Would this be a tougher or easier road? Hard to really say. And everyone has to beat a good team eventually anyway. Just an interesting idea.
Sorry about the formatting. Couldn’t figure out a clean way to do it.
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I get what you are saying but I was referring to high seeds and not the entire field. #1 seeds are supposed to have the easiest paths and #16 the toughest. It did not quite work this way for KU who had two tougher games than it should have been expected by virtue of being a #1 seed…after all, what is the use of being a #1 seed if you don’t get a favorable bracket? Right?
BTW, Bobby Mo called and said how about us beating Kentucky? They don’t always play to their expectations.
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There have been proposal for reseeding teams starting with the Sweet 16 but the objection has always been travel arrangements. Reseeding for the Final Four should not be an issue since they ll play in the same place.
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Reseeding may give you something closer to the correct champion. Nope, no way that could happen. On second thought it is another opportunity for bracket manipulation…
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Agreed that 1 seeds should get a more favorable path, but by virtue of some upsets, KU has one of the tougher remaining paths - only Villanova will have a harder road. But that isn’t really anyone’s fault, except the top seeds that stumbled along the way, clearing the way for lesser (?) teams to step into that void.
As for Robert Morris beating UK, I don’t count that simply because UK had no real interest in that game. I know I am using selective memory on that, but a man wiser than me once told me kids don’t go to Kentucky or UNC or Kansas to play in the NIT, just like kids don’t go to Alabama, or Miami, or Florida State, or USC to play in the Texas bowl. You go to certain schools to have a chance on the big stage. If you’re not on the big stage, it’s hard to get or keep everyone’s attention, particularly when the guys that were going to jump to the NBA were already focusing on that, and the guys that were staying were already looking to the next year. It’s not like Kentucky fans were any more upset about losing in the NIT than they were about being in the NIT in the first place. As a KU fan, I think that we would be in the same place. I’m not even sure I would watch if KU was in the NIT.
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Keep in mind that UK opened the 2012-2013 season ranked #3 with 5 #1 votes in the Coaches poll only to have a precipitous fall to the NIT.
If you don’t think losing to Robert Morris matters, just go to one of their forums and mention Bobby Mo and you will see the reaction you get. We still sting from the loss to TCU a few years back, imagine how they feel about losing to Bobby Mo…everybody and I mean EVERYBODY remembers that loss in the same way that everybody old enough remembers Virginia losing to NAIA Chamminade and now to UMBC.
In 2010, the worst year under Coach Williams, UNC ended up in the NIT and it fought its way to the title game where it lost to Dayton…UNC fans remember this. If KU ever end up at the NIT…we would remember it for a long time.
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@justanotherfan While i agree with your reasoning regarding UK’s loss in the NIT, it still happened. It cant be ignored. Calipari is probably the best recruiter in the game, a really good team builder and a good coach, but his teams dont “always show up”. Of course this is my opinion and doesn’t necessarily mean it’s correct and your’s is wrong. I just dont like Kentucky and I enjoyed that loss and the humiliation their fans felt immensely!
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@Jayhawk-in-OKC I enjoy watching them lose.
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@KUSTEVE Particularly when it is to “us”!
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I’ve been told that saying always is a sure bet to get you into trouble. You are right. You can’t discount the Robert Morris loss as if it didn’t happen.
I will grant the Robert Morris loss as a time that a Calipari team did not show up. Here are all of his postseason losses, the seed his team was, and the seed he lost to:
As a one seed in the NCAA tournament (he’s been a 1 seed seven times) Calipari has never lost to any team seeded lower than 2. If he gets a 1 seed, he’s going to the Elite Eight at a minimum. So he always shows up as a 1 seed.
As a two seed in the NCAA tournament (seeded second five times) Calipari has one second round loss to a 10 seed back in 1994. Other than that, he has a Sweet 16, and three Elite Eights, losing to a 3, a 4 and two different ones. So other than the one disappointment as a two seed in 1994, Calipari gets to the Sweet 16 as a 2 seed.
As a three seed, Calipari was beaten by a 2 seed and a 6 seed.
As a four seed, Calipari went to the Final Four once, and lost in the round of 32 once.
As a seven seed, Calipari never made it past the second round, and lost in the first round once.
As an 8 seed, Calipari went to the national title game.
In his one time as a one seed in the NIT, Calipari lost in the first round. He was knocked out in the first round of the NIT in 1990, and has three appearances in the semifinals, plus an NIT title.
So in 24 postseason trips, Calipari has not been upset just once (the infamous Bobby Mo). He’s been upset twice - Bobby Mo in 2013 and Maryland in 1994.
When he has a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA tournament, you can pretty much bet on him going to the Elite Eight at least. 12 times he’s been seeded 1 or 2, and 10 of those resulted in at least Elite Eight appearances or better.
The guy hasn’t been upset in the postseason in any of his current player’s lifetimes. He got beaten in the NIT by Robert Morris. But if you had to find one coach that would consistently play to his seed, that coach is not Williams, or Boeheim, or Coach K, or Self, or Izzo, or (insert your favorite HOF coach not previously named here). The answer is Calipari.
He does not lose as a one seed in the NCAA tournament to lower seeded teams. If you don’t have at least a 2 in front of your name, forget it. If the committee thinks Calipari was one of the best four teams in the country, he’s one of the last eight standing, period. No exceptions. There isn’t another coach in the country that can say they make it to the Elite Eight if they have a one seed.
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@justanotherfan It almost sounds as if you’re defending Calipari…and on a KU fan board! Just giving you a hard time. As you noted, my initial response was due to the word “always”. I never meant to imply that Calipari isn’t a really good coach. He assembles superior talent year after year. His teams “usually” do very well in the tournament. I cant deny those facts no matter how much i dislike him or UK. However, i will point out that he has lost a few times in the NCAA when he was the higher seed. It doesn’t matter if that was as a 1 seed or a 7 seed. It also doesn’t matter if he lost in the 1st round of the NIT (i still smile when i think about it) or the Elite 8. A loss to a lower seed implies his team wasn’t ready. In 2016 as a 4 seed he lost to a 5 seed (R32). In 2009 as a 2 seed he lost to a 3 seed (S16). In 2006 as a 1 seed he lost to a 2 seed (E8). Go back to his UMass days and he lost 3 times as a higher seed. And lets not forget that for all the superior talent and 5 star guys he has recruited to Kentucky, he only has the 1 championship. NOTE: No malice intended or implied in this response!
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justanotherfan said:
Agreed that 1 seeds should get a more favorable path, but by virtue of some upsets, KU has one of the tougher remaining paths - only Villanova will have a harder road. But that isn’t really anyone’s fault, except the top seeds that stumbled along the way, clearing the way for lesser (?) teams to step into that void.
As for Robert Morris beating UK, I don’t count that simply because UK had no real interest in that game. I know I am using selective memory on that, but a man wiser than me once told me kids don’t go to Kentucky or UNC or Kansas to play in the NIT, just like kids don’t go to Alabama, or Miami, or Florida State, or USC to play in the Texas bowl. You go to certain schools to have a chance on the big stage. If you’re not on the big stage, it’s hard to get or keep everyone’s attention, particularly when the guys that were going to jump to the NBA were already focusing on that, and the guys that were staying were already looking to the next year. It’s not like Kentucky fans were any more upset about losing in the NIT than they were about being in the NIT in the first place. As a KU fan, I think that we would be in the same place. I’m not even sure I would watch if KU was in the NIT.
Then the players should have been given the option of not playing like UCLA in '74 3rd place game or not accepted the invite.
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With all the talent he has recruited at UK, one can make a strong case that he has largely unperformed. His record might be marginally better than Coach Self but Coach Self has done it with much less talent. Since Calipari has been at UK, no other team has had nearly as much talent; maybe Duke comes close but not KU.
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You’re setting an almost impossible standard if you say a coach didn’t have his team ready if they lost to a lower seed. Calipari has lost as the higher seed 9 times in his 24 postseason trips. That looks bad until you start comparing it to other top coaches. Let’s take Coach K, Bill Self and Roy Williams, and look at just when they have had #1 seeds.
As a 1 seed (six times), Calipari has won a title, never lost to anyone seeded lower than 2, and has lost to another 1 seed three times. So Calipari has his 1 seeds ready half the time.
Self has also had six number one seeds. He’s never lost to another one seed, he has one title, but he’s also lost to a 2 twice, a three, a nine and an eleven. Self has his 1 seeds ready 17% of the time.
Roy Williams has had eleven #1 seeds. He’s got three titles, but his eight losses were to a pair of 4 seeds, an 8, a 9, three #2’s and two #1’s. Williams has his 1 seeds ready 45% of the time.
Coach K has had a one seed twelve times. He has four titles as a one seed. He’s also lost once to another one seed. The other seven times, he lost to a two seed (three times), a five seed (three times), and a four seed (once). So Coach K has his 1 seeds ready 42% of the time.
So for the 1 seeds of these coaches, Calipari is at 50%, Williams is at 45%, Coach K is 42% and Self is at 17%.
But I will be honest when I say that’s an impossible standard. If you’re getting to the Elite Eight as a one seed, you’re playing pretty darn close to expectation. That makes the ledger look like this instead - Calipari is 100%, Self is 83%, Williams is 72% and Coach K is 67%. That makes more sense to me than saying that four of the best coaches in the game today are all at or under 50% for getting their best teams ready to perform.
As to talent, it’s not like any of these four coaches can ever bemoan that they lack for talent. They all basically always have talent. And if they don’t, well, if you can’t recruit talent to Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas, maybe that’s not the right job for you. There’s no prize for winning with less talent. Part of a college basketball coach’s skill is recruiting because you get to pick your own players.
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As to talent, it’s not like any of these four coaches can ever bemoan that they lack for talent. They all basically always have talent. And if they don’t, well, if you can’t recruit talent to Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas, maybe that’s not the right job for you. There’s no prize for winning with less talent. Part of a college basketball coach’s skill is recruiting because you get to pick your own players.
That is not quite correct. Kentucky has had considerably more talent than any team not named Duke as shown by the number of players that have made it to the NBA and are thriving there…it’s not even close.Look at KU players in the NBA, other than Embiid, Wiggins, the twins, Jackson and maybe Oubre, the rest are second tier players which shows how god Coach Self Is winning with marginal NBA talent.
In the NBA coaches can indeed pick their players, provided the team wants to spend the money. In college, coaches don’t pick their own players, players pick their own coach.
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You make a good point about players picking their coach, as opposed to the way that I said it. Either way, recruiting is a part of college basketball. I don’t think it should be a knock to say that UK has more talent. Calipari is a great recruiter, and recruiting is a big part of the job of any college basketball coach. No one here is discounting our 14 straight Big 12 titles even though KU routinely has more NBA talent (marginal or otherwise) than every other Big 12 team, sometimes more than every other team combined. Self outrecruits the rest of the conference. That makes him a better coach because that is part of the job.
We laugh at Bruce Weber when he whines about not having as much talent. It’s not like I think Weber should get extra recognition because he doesn’t have as much talent. If you don’t have talent as a college coach, go recruit some. If you need more, go get more.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Kansas St vs Kentucky. Two teams playing great defense in the tournament. Kentucky’s edge in size and Dean Wade’s injury could be the difference for them.
That, and the fact that Liberace is a moron. Plus, they have the ugliest uniforms in the tournament. Possibly in the universe.
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@nuleafjhawk Those black shorts with lavender jerseys are THE WORST I’ve ever seen. Children’s YMCA uniforms are better. Baylor’s highlighters are better. The white vs. dark shirts guys wear at my pick up game are better. It’s astounding that anyone thought those would be a good idea.
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@benshawks08 I took a picture of my TV screen during the KSU-Baylor game just to show people that I know who aren’t sports fans how frickin ugly those uniforms are!!
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benshawks08 said:
@nuleafjhawk Those black shorts with lavender jerseys are THE WORST I’ve ever seen. Children’s YMCA uniforms are better. Baylor’s highlighters are better. The white vs. dark shirts guys wear at my pick up game are better. It’s astounding that anyone thought those would be a good idea.
Tell us how you really feel, Ben…
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Fran Fraschilla picking Clemson over Kansas on ESPN-U radio. So in other obvious news of the day: The sky is still blue. #KUhater
Have I mentioned how I feel about Fran?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Fran Fraschilla picking Clemson over Kansas on ESPN-U radio. So in other obvious news of the day: The sky is still blue. #KUhater
Have I mentioned how I feel about Fran?
I lose more respect for this man by the comment. Every comment he makes, causes me to lose even more respect. I’d say, I don’t respect his bball analysis or rep at all.
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@justanotherfan There’s a point where Coach Self’s coaching can take a team only so far, and then the team has to seal the deal. Coach Squid’s teams suck when they are in rebuild mode, so they make NITs, and 5 seeds. But when they’re a 1 seed, they’re really, really good. We make # 1 seeds with teams where we openly question how we’re even in the running for it ( like this year ). We never rebuild, so coach can take his 5 guys, and get them to win to give us a high seed every year. It doesn’t mean we’re one of the 4 best teams in the country - it means we have met the criteria in order to get a higher seed. Our schedule is normally really good, and our conference normally is considered in the top 2 or 3, so when you’re winning a great conference, that is going to go a long way towards seeding. This year it seems different in my mind. I think we have the talent and ability to win it all, even if we have warts. Now, I think we could use a little luck- maybe a Cuse upset over Dook…maybe a WVU or T Tech upset over Nova would help. But I have a great feel that this team will be playing for all the marbles…
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Who has churned out the most NBA talent?
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@dylans The “most”? Not KU. But the “best” according to that author, mostly because of the singular talent and career of Wilt!
Several other interesting articles in that link, by the way, if you scroll down.
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@mayjay I was quantifying the most talented starting 5 as the most talent. Not the highest total of 1st round picks. 1 seed baby!
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Interesting, KU playing with 3 centers. I imagine that if the seeding was based on current players in the NBA, the seeding would be different and several teams would not have 5 players.
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No UNC helps too.
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https://fantasycpr.com/2018/03/22/2018-ncaa-tournament-sweet-16-predictions/4/
This guy has some interesting takes.
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Seeing the TAMU we have seen most of the year tonight.
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Loyola!!!
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Come on A&M…you are not coming back from 20 down with just over a minute left, quit fouling.
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BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE
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LIBERACES ON FIRE!!!
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Bruce is going to get a lifetime contract if he wins this game lmao
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This is amazing. I hope they keep it up. Bruce to the FF!!! KU KSU NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!!!
