What’s up with Lagerald?
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@BeddieKU23 Yep. Great on ball defense all game. And his stat line is a perfect glue guy/stat stuffer: 11/4/3/3/1
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Yep. Great on ball defense all game. And his stat line is a perfect glue guy/stat stuffer: 11/4/3/3/1
If we get that stat line by Jr & Sr year we’ll be happy. I am putting this out now, he will be one of our 3 best players his last 2 seasons. Hopefully he lives up to that
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@BeddieKU23 I said something similar and I fully expect it to be the case. Once he improves his shot a bit and has more freedom on offense to play his game watch out.
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We have already seen it more lately with him getting to the rim. He still doesn’t feel comfortable stopping for his midrange jump shot which was a killer for him in HS. To be fair Self probably doesn’t want him doing that this year when we have so many deadly trey ballers. But when he is a starter and a huge part of the team it should be a big part of his game.
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Up to 10 made 3’s on the year… Still making 62% of 2’s on the year is an important stat. Very good finisher around the rim
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I’ve coached my kids up until 8th grade and no matter the grade or gender there are some kids who just try harder once they make a basket. They self worth as a basketball player lives and dies on their offensive output. Self usually does a good job breaking these types and other times guys just do not change(see Brannen Greene). I’m seeing a bit of this in Vick.
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@BigBad You could generally tell if Selden was going to have a good game or not based on if he was engaged early and hit his first couple shots.
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Turning this detective work over to those with far better eyesight…Is Lagerald also ‘MIA’ during the team locker room celebration?
https://www.facebook.com/KansasBasketball/videos/10156175879234532/
What I have surmised is that Vick is an exceedingly introverted player on a team with perhaps the most extroverted leader in modern KU history. Throw in Vick’s early season success and the expectations of others and the pressure may be just too much to bear. Contrast this scenario with Garrett who performed mostly under the radar this season, whose early play likely lowered fan expectations and now his incremental improvement each game is rightfully applauded.
Two polar opposite trajectories. In the after game interview last night, the only irritation I sensed in Self’s voice was over the issue of social media. Self appeared to go to lengths to downplay it. While some players are wired to take the (nameless, faceless) negatives and turn them into a productive chip (e.g., Devonte), others fold under the weight of them.
I do not believe it is a lack of caring on Vick’s part. I believe he is likely more disappointed in himself than anyone else can imagine and the images we are seeing are more about that than disinterest. If I could wave the proverbial magic wand, it would be to eliminate all external and internal distractions (Vick has created for himself and others have created for him) and re-find the quirky, socially awkward but endearing, phenomenal talent that he is. We certainly need Vick in March but honestly we need him far beyond that.
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I wonder if there is an inherent jealousy by Vick vs Dtae. Look back to the first of the season and Vick got a lot of Coach talking about him and what a great player he was. As Dtae deferred to Frank last year, maybe Vick just isn’t wired the same way Dtae is and took the focus on Dtae as something other than it was. Dtae was in charge deservedly so and Vick realized he wasn’t good enough and therefore just stopped trying. Futile thinking for sure. Then he was dropped out of starting 5. Or is it because Vick knows with his play being off and hardly on that he sees his draft status lowered and is just not sure where he is in the whole scheme of things. I hope he gets his mind right. That video of him after Tech win in the hallway was sad as he looked like he just pushed Hudy away from him.
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@BeddieKU23 i love watching Garrett play. I find myself watching him instead of the play on both offense and defense. He’s just so active on both sides of the ball, and he has sneaky quick speed. That drive to the basket was just flat amazing.
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Right now, Vick is sticking out like a sore thumb. His energy level is different from the rest. His body language is different from the rest. His level of execution is different from the rest.
We have all shared many things over this season trying to figure it out and I’m not sure we are the better for it. It just doesn’t seem like we are ever going to know exactly what is going on with Vick, but just have to accept that there is something going on. Obviously, that is the case. It can’t be hidden.
All I can do is remain hopeful. This team has dealt with a lot of issues this year and seems to be on the rise at the right time! #14 is behind us! So… what is this team’s goal moving forward? I’m hopeful we will see this answer through our animated team captain, Devonte!
Let’s try to remain positive on Vick and hope he is able to resolve whatever it is that is separating him negatively from the pack. And let’s remember we have HOF’r Coach Self to continue to work on this. We all know Bill knows Vick is having something going on.
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@drgnslayr I’m not sure what to think about it. Is he on the outs with a team clique…or is there something deeper going on? Maybe it’s Garrett breathing down his neck. I dunno.
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KUSTEVE said:
@BeddieKU23 i love watching Garrett play. I find myself watching him instead of the play on both offense and defense. He’s just so active on both sides of the ball, and he has sneaky quick speed. That drive to the basket was just flat amazing.
I find myself doing the same thing.
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I agree we need to stay positive with him because we need him at his best when it counts. We seem to remember his negative plays more then his positives. Vick should be more consistent by now, his 3 game stretch before the Tech/Texas games was the best he’s looked since the non-conference. So did the motivation wear off that Self had pushed him towards? Vick is still the missing piece to what seems to be 6 and even Silvio (7) guys who have completely bought into what’s ahead… Can KU survive with a squeaky wheel?
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I’m not reading anything into either video. He was talking to Svi down the hall–I doubt Svi wanted to be with someone out of sync with the team during his last walk to a celebration in the AFH locker room. Not embracing Hudy has lots of possibilities foremost among them that we have been told he is shy. He eyes the camera as he arrives, and is probably really self-conscious about hugging her, especially if he isn’t a hugging person naturally. Haven’t you all known people like that, especially young people not comfortable hugging adults of the opposite sex? Svi barely touches her, too.
The locker room video is too short to be evidence of anything. He could have been sitting down in back, he could have been staying off camera because he was in the buff, he could have been in the john, he might have been out in the hall. Being a sullen nonparticpant is one possibility, but there is no evidence of it. Just my take.
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Looks pretty happy and engaged here (seeing teeth and thinking that’s even his arm wrapped around Dok):
http://ljworld.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge_remote.asp?source=jsapi&remoteimageid=22201596
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LaGerald is by definition okay, but maybe not optimizing right now.
If he weren’t okay, Self would have pulled him from the starting rotation again.
As Self might say, LaGerald may be going through some stuff, but he’s getting the job done in his floor game, or the Magnificent Seven would not be B12 Conference Champions!!!
KU just won the outright B12 title with him as a starter.
LaCobre is alright with moi.
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Garrett is terrific and I love the potential. But Lagerald knows the system and is poised to be a leader next year… maybe the leader. So he’s probably going through the coach-conceived crucible as someone mentioned above… and there may be something else that is digging at him. Unfortunately, it’s all speculation.
I’m certain he has the talent to make it to the NBA. Just hope he can get his emotional IQ aligned with his extraordinary basketball skills.
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@BeddieKU23 Me too – in fact I watched the game again on replay this morning, and pretty much just kept my eyes on both Vick when he was in, and Garrett… Watched Garrett set pics watched Garrett hustle and block out and play defense and get rebounds and drive… Vick had some nice plays too, but Garrett seems to never take a minute off
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I am with you. I did not see anything on the videos that tells me there is an issue. None of the players hugged Hudy, only had high/low fives while running all excited. Svi and Vick walked in long afterwards a lot more calmed and both had almost identical reactions to Hudy.
Maybe Vick is just shy and introverted and is not partial to PDAs? I know a lot of people that are that way. Perhaps we are seeing more than there really is?
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Garret has a poker face and is all business on the court. Also, his offense is starting to come around and that dunk he had was a thing of beauty.
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@bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.
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@drgnslayr Speaking of our team leader, DG, did you notice him referencing a chip on his shoulder and one for the whole team this year? I can’t remember where I read or heard it. But he definitely brought up that the team felt like people didn’t believe they could do it and that put a chip on their shoulders that has motivated them late in the conference season.
@HighEliteMajor I think Self talked about this being a pretty quiet team outside of Devonte. Pretty much why he HAS to be the leader. No one else talks. Hopefully some of the guys redshirted or coming in next year can find a voice pretty quick otherwise it might be all quiet on historic court next year. Devonte came in chattering and smiling. It’s just his personality. There are other ways to lead. Frank lead without saying much, but I don’t see that yet from Vick. Doesn’t mean it’s not possible. But it’s not in his skill set yet.
If anything, Garret could be the quiet leader just because his effort is so steady. Reliability is a wholly underrated trait of good leadership.
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@JayHawkFanToo I love how much Garrett is looking to attack. Frankly, I’m excited how much the guards in general are aggressively attacking the rim.
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After the Italy trip I though that Garret might end up being the steal of the class.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.
I said this Saturday after the game. - In the locker room I posed a question from a pic that was taken of the team around the championship trophy - - everybody all right there - - only Vick just looks seemed kind of distant in that picture – kind of did-connected from the other team members. - -Something is going on with him just not sure what. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t see us going too far in March without Vick bringing a lot more game. His play is vital because he is a starter and has been all year. Being a starter all year makes him a key. And if he starts playing aggressive our entire team will skip up an entire gear!
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I heard that! Amazing how even a little chip with a Kansas team increases our production, big time!
2012… we didn’t have a single McDs AA and made it to the finals!
I think it is pretty rare that the team who wants it most doesn’t win the NC. I think 2012 was that example. I felt we wanted it more but UK had a team full of NBA players and the unibrow was just too much for us to handle. Heck… look at him in the NBA… no one can handle him!
And UK didn’t blow us out… we actually had a chance to make a run late and pull off the miracle!
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@benshawks08 Devonte’ mentioned it in his Sr. speech.
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@dylans So did Svi right before he thanked the fans for supporting them through everything and filling AFH.
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drgnslayr said:
I don’t see us going too far in March without Vick bringing a lot more game. His play is vital because he is a starter and has been all year. Being a starter all year makes him a key. And if he starts playing aggressive our entire team will skip up an entire gear!
I’m torn on that statement. I’m a big fan of Vick’s game but this season for him has been really disappointing to watch to be honest. If Vick was anywhere as consistent as our top 3 we’d be the best offensive team in the country. I really do believe that because the athletic ability that Vick has is in the Top 5% of all D-1 but he doesn’t always use it.
For example take Zhaire Smith of Texas Tech. In my opinion pound for pound one of the 5 best athletes in the country but what elevates his ability is his effort and drive to make plays. Smith impacted the game against KU last Saturday in a lot of ways and we really didn’t have an answer for him. Vick was on a string trying to guard him. I was thinking half the time this is what Vick should be for KU. This is what I’m imagining Self has been trying to push Lagerald towards for the past year. Maybe that’s still a year away from happening and I’ve put expectations on him he’s not ready to reach yet. I asked the question earlier this season when Vick was knee deep in a downward spiral, is Vick not as good as we think he is? I’m still struggling with that question.
I don’t think if we lose in the tourney the blame will be on Vick. I think if we are in a position to lose its going to be a team breakdown. Not rebounding as a team, a poor 3 point shooting game, lack of defensive effort. The most likely individual that has the biggest impact on KU’s chances is Doke in foul trouble which limits his minutes. Everything changes with him on the floor.
If Vick gets 8-10 a night in the tourney he improves our chances of outscoring teams and putting less pressure on every other aspect of the game. I do agree that we cannot have off games because we only go 7 deep regularly. I’m really hopeful Vick picks the end of the season to finish strong. We’ll see what he’s got to give
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@drgnslayr This team reminds me of the 2012 team. Not so much in the way they play but the way they can get stops and come from behind. 2012 was better overall defensively this team can be more explosive offensively.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.
It’s a good question. I can’t say that I’ve seen any, but at the same time, there are leadership qualities that might not be visible to fans. So maybe he possesses leadership qualities that are not externally evident.
It’s also possible he hasn’t been given leadership opportunities that we can see.
I try to recall Frank in his early years and Devonte before this year and think of what attributes were present then that signaled they would be the players they became in their final season…
I think they played their position well… but I think the surprise that people have regarding Devonte’s success is evidence that few could see what he would become until he had the opportunity.
I hope Vick can do what he needs to do now to get the opportunity next year.
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Yeah… I didn’t want to just say that our potential March loss is all on Vick. It wouldn’t be.
But if we go down, good chance we have several players having a bad game, and as of right now, it looks like we can expect one of them to be Vick.
I hope that changes.
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@bskeet The reason Vick has been so disappointing is we all know he has great athletic ability. Speed, great leaper, when he wants to. He should be driving the ball to the rim and scoring or getting fouled like the other guards. He is just as quick as they are. I do not think he has confidence in his handles and that may be why he is not using all of his ability. I do know if he would assert his will on the defense, we would be a much more powerful offense. At least Garrett is trying to do that as a freshman.
Come on Legerald put us over the hump!!!
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I agree. Vick averaged 7 points in the tourney last year and on-que was 2-8 in the game we lost against Oregon so that would seem to support what we think could happen in that situation.
Looking at Vick’s stats during this year in losses we have a tale of 2 season’s really.
In Non-Conference Vick had 28 & 25 in losses to Washington & ASU. In Conference he’s averaged 5 points a game in our 4 losses and contributed very little elsewhere statistically.
If Vick finds a way to be a consistent scorer in the tourney we have a legitimate chance of winning the whole thing.
Maybe the change from conference opponents to unknown opponents with just a few days to scout him will benefit him. I’m really trying to find any edge to grasp onto at this point because it can be the difference in staying alive. Vick simply needs to play up to his ability
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Could this be part of the problem?
[http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/smithology/2018/feb/27/ku-freshman-marcus-garrett-emerging-as-m/](http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/smithology/2018/feb/27/ku-freshman-marcus-garrett-emerging-as-m/)
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@BeddieKU23 Interesting that all of the focus is on Vick’s offense - or lack thereof. We don’t need him to be a primary scorer - we have 4 others that can do that - he just needs to be a threat to score. What we do need is for him to be halfway interested in defense and helping out with rebounding. Notwithstanding his athletic capabilities, there are way too many instances in which he just stands around on defense. And, the next time he blocks out his man on a missed shot will be the first time. I really thought he had a chance to be our best defender - a stopper - but it hasn’t played out that way. It appears to be primarily an effort issue rather than capability. I don’t think he needs to score more than 7-8 points a game if he is really engaged and contributing in other areas - which hasn’t been the case…
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CRH107 said:
Looks pretty happy and engaged here (seeing teeth and thinking that’s even his arm wrapped around Dok):
http://ljworld.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge_remote.asp?source=jsapi&remoteimageid=22201596
If I’ve got my arm around Doke and he’s smiling-- I’m SMILING!
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It seemed like Vick played much more engaged for a few games but his effort trailed off against Tech and Texas. He is sort of an enigma but hopefully he will come through when we need him.
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Maybe Vick will get motivated to show well for NBA scouts in the tournament.
He could rocket up if we win it all and he is a big part of it!
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DCHawker said:
@BeddieKU23 Interesting that all of the focus is on Vick’s offense - or lack thereof. We don’t need him to be a primary scorer - we have 4 others that can do that - he just needs to be a threat to score. What we do need is for him to be halfway interested in defense and helping out with rebounding. Notwithstanding his athletic capabilities, there are way too many instances in which he just stands around on defense. And, the next time he blocks out his man on a missed shot will be the first time. I really thought he had a chance to be our best defender - a stopper - but it hasn’t played out that way. It appears to be primarily an effort issue rather than capability. I don’t think he needs to score more than 7-8 points a game if he is really engaged and contributing in other areas - which hasn’t been the case…
I’ve chosen to focus on his offense because I believe that’s the one area he’d help this team the most going forward. When he shoots well he plays harder which transitions into his defense and effort. In the flow of our offense Vick see’s the ball a lot on the wing in a scoring position and its been shocking to see the lack of confidence he has in himself to make a play and finish a play. He came into KU with a scorer’s mentality, even as a sophomore he was a spark plug off the bench often giving this team an intriguing scoring option. He started off the year red hot and then what happened? He had a nice 3 game stretch after some Self motivation and then the last two games we’ve seen clear evidence that’s worn off.
I want him to be a double digit scorer in the tourney, I believe its the most attainable goal Vick can reach in his current state.
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Vick’s three point percentage in losses is terrible. The rest is fairly static.
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He needs to position himself in the corner opposite Svi and start hitting the short 3s and hitting the boards when someone else shoots. He has shown he is capable of scoring big, he need to do it more often. I was surprised at his low FT percentage.
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Vick’s PER in conference play is painfully low. I don’t even want to share it.
His FT % is low because he doesn’t ever get to the line consistently. Garrett has played about 400 minutes less and has shot almost as many FT’s as him.
He’s struggled shooting the ball ever since the Texas Game. We need him to find his shot
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@BeddieKU23 doesn’t seem like Coach has given up on him. I think he’s trying to build him up.
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If they began naming Fog Banks like they do Tropical Storms, I’d name the Fog Bank LaGerald. He is in a complete and utter fog…and not the good kind e.g. Phog.
He is wandering aimlessly on the court, casually and repeatedly throwing the ball away, weak on the boards, getting blown by on D, and providing very little on the offensive end. I think it’s time to start Garrett. He is bringing far more to the table and I bet his 3 point shooting % is very close to Vick over the last 10 games (if anyone has that stat).
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Fightsongwriter said:
If they began naming Fog Banks like they do Tropical Storms, I’d name the Fog Bank LaGerald. He is in a complete and utter fog…and not the good kind e.g. Phog.
He is wandering aimlessly on the court, casually and repeatedly throwing the ball away, weak on the boards, getting blown by on D, and providing very little on the offensive end. I think it’s time to start Garrett. He is bringing far more to the table and I bet his 3 point shooting % is very close to Vick over the last 10 games (if anyone has that stat).
Here you Go. I included other stats because I think its important to distinguish just how poorly Vick is playing. Garrett should be starting and its up to Coach to figure it out. Vick should not be playing near 33 minutes a game, hasn’t deserved it for months.
Over the past 10 games
Vick-
Pts- 9.5,
Boards- 3.9,
Assists- 1.4
Steals- 0.6
FG%- 41.8%,
3ptFG%- 27.5
Turnovers- 1.7 per
PER (Player Efficiency Rating)- Overall 15.3, Conference 8.6.
Minutes per- 32.8
Garrett
Pts- 5.4,
Boards- 2.4,
Assists- 1.0
Steals- 0.8
FG%- 58.8%
3ptFG%- 50%
Turnovers- 0.8 per
PER (Player Efficiency Rating)- Overall 13.5, Conference 12.1.
Minutes per- 20.4
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@BeddieKU23 I would love to see the minutes of Vick and Garrett flip flop. Maybe Self is saving it for the NCAAT…
