Last night observations
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Well we are officially underway. - -A few of my observations from last night. - As we all are fully aware of it’s really kind of hard to get a good take on the guys from games like this , however with that being said:
First I think Billy Preston has a really good chance to become a beast, looks to me like he is a physical specimen, has a chance to do some really good things, I think his biggest problem at the beginning anyways is being able to stay out of foul trouble. As that’s going to be the issue with ALL our big men that we do have.
Another thing that I saw last night was, and by no means was he needed last night BUT in order for us to reach our maximum potential this season we can not have Devonte have any of these " Where is he nights " - Devonte was non exsistant, I full believe he was quite content with just more or less passing the ball off stepping back and letting all the others get involved and or doing their thing. I fully understand but even last night I think he should of been a little more in touch he was just to laid back last night. - -Again I think for us to succeed Devonte is going to need to be a 14-15 ppg player through the season, he needs to bring his game - -every game whether it’s actually needed or not , cause for the most part he is going to be needed game in game out.
Next call me crazy but I’m just a Mitch Lightfoot fan - - I realize he is never going to be a major thing , but he battles - -he competes has the heart of a Lion. For sure just a spot player, but that can be Big. - With our front line so thin we are going to need minutes, last night while he played - -he tried - a couple of blocked shots a few points and a couple of rebounds - -that’s ok we don’t need huge point production from him -we need him to come in a spell Preston and Doke when in foul trouble , the thing for him he needs to stay away from that damn 3 pt attempted shooting not happening.
Doke? - - we can’t gauge Doke from last nights game.- - I will say he needs work - - - seems looks still raw, the key is potential. - -Makes me really wonder what his future really is in the NBA. - -That’s not a knock- -BUT just plain and simple questions raised, The NBA is leaning more to smaller fluid player - -Doke seems to be one of the fewer pure bigs, question is in the flow of the NBA will he be able to keep up with the pace? -He needs work on his shots and conditioning - - Another thing man what’s it going to take to be able to get him to improve on his Ft shooting? - -It is going to be ugly, there is going to be times where anytime he gets open pretty much as been mentioned they going to hack instead of giving up the pts - he has got to work work work - -Gurly was saying last night he should be shooting 500 ft every day to work on it.
Overall as a team- we looked good at times - -we looked sloppy for sometimes but it was really the 1st outing In reality. -just some thoughts - – next - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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The main thing for Dok is not to go one on three or four. He has to pass it out quicker when he gets swarmed. Now, real teams like Kentucky probably aren’t going to swarm him and will start out one on one so he will have opportunities to make some moves, but he has to be ready to look for the open man.
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Doke - even after two years has almost no explosiveness off the floor. Every dunk he has is full arm extended. His vertical leap is just not there. Post moves are still really raw. There is potential here and being surrounded by great shooters will help him become a threat. He needs to become an offensive rebounding and put back machine. That would really help this team.
Newman - smooth and seems at peace not having massive expectations because he is next to Devonte.
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HawkChamp said:
The main thing for Dok is not to go one on three or four. He has to pass it out quicker when he gets swarmed. Now, real teams like Kentucky probably aren’t going to swarm him and will start out one on one so he will have opportunities to make some moves, but he has to be ready to look for the open man.
Yeah, he really needs to add that. He missed passing back out to wide open guys a few times.
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Doke will always be a black hole once you throw it in to him. Maybe the extended minutes will expand his BBIQ but he’s never going to be a passer. We throw it in and we let him go to work simple as that. It’s great to have him back on the floor and his conditioning will improve the more he gets to play.
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Loved Vick last night. Great energy and effort.
Marcus Garrett is the glue to this team already. Makes the pass, rebounds, defends, no ego from him
Preston looked good. The fouls were stupid. The potential is evident with him on the floor.
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Also, bless ya @jayballer54 it’s hard to take any positives away from Mitch’s performance last night. He needs to get a lot better.
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BeddieKU23 said:
It’s great to have him back on the floor and his conditioning will improve the more he gets to play.
For anyone wondering this is why he was on the floor late in the exhibition. He needs as much PT as possible.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
It’s great to have him back on the floor and his conditioning will improve the more he gets to play.
For anyone wondering this is why he was on the floor late in the exhibition. He needs as much PT as possible.
Agreed, he’s that cliche “still very young”. He just turned 18 right? Loved when he sealed his man and went straight up with it. Self should be developing set plays to get Doke 3 feet from the rim every trip. He seals and delivers. Should be a strength against most teams we play
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BeddieKU23 said:
Loved Vick last night. Great energy and effort.
Marcus Garrett is the glue to this team already. Makes the pass, rebounds, defends, no ego from him
Preston looked good. The fouls were stupid. The potential is evident with him on the floor.
If Vick can bring it like that every game he might play himself into being drafted.
Preston might be the biggest tease all year. I really hope we get to a point where he can stay on the floor.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Loved Vick last night. Great energy and effort.
Marcus Garrett is the glue to this team already. Makes the pass, rebounds, defends, no ego from him
Preston looked good. The fouls were stupid. The potential is evident with him on the floor.
If Vick can bring it like that every game he might play himself into being drafted.
Preston might be the biggest tease all year. I really hope we get to a point where he can stay on the floor.
Agree with all of that.
If both reach their potential this season they will be drafted. For this season Vick’s ability to make plays like the put back dunks or the drives to the hoops with athletic finishes are exactly what this offense needs. We have shooters but we need that balance inside/out.
This was game 1 for Preston. Let’s see what Game 2 and the next few weeks we get from him. I can imagine he’s going to be vital going up against Kentucky’s 17 hybrid forwards.
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@BeddieKU23 Yeak UK’s roster is stupid even with Vanderbilt out with injury. Knox, Gabriel, Washington are all going to have to be 3/4 due to their lack of guard depth.
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BShark said:
Also, bless ya @jayballer54 it’s hard to take any positives away from Mitch’s performance last night. He needs to get a lot better.
Yes he does. - -I guess I just got a spot for a kid that has the want to. - -He wants so much to help , and I think he can, he can be that spot guy, he is tough as a box of nails - -you can’t fault the effort. It’s just that sometimes as of right now anyways his left foot seems to mess with his right. - -That’s ok - -they all can’t be studs - -superstars , we need some glue to the lunch pail and ladder guy - -when he is out there I think he is at least going to give it 110% it’s ok - -a true loyal Jayhawk - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 Interested to see if Vick will continue to attack the glass like he did last night. - -Is this the LaGerald we gonna see ALL year OR was it the competition. - -Just like Doke - - 14 rebounds - but yet Bill wasn’t that impressed said he should of got those, we are going to need all hands on deck.
Last night gave us a look at what happens when our big get in foul trouble == Preston 4 - - - Lightfoot 3-4 - - Doke 3 - -we can’t have that in the bigger games for sure and you know - -you can take it to the bank a lot of these Coaches are going to be telling their guys ATTACK THE RIM these guys have just got to learn to D up without the silly fouls - -they do us no good sitting the bench and being cheerleaders. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Is Clay Young better than Mitch Lightfoot?
My column:
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I thought our offense looked disjointed most of the night. I think DG took a powder. which won’t happen during the real games. This team could certainly take some time to gel, but I think we definitely have enough firepower to compete with all comers.
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KUSTEVE said:
I thought our offense looked disjointed most of the night. I think DG took a powder. which won’t happen during the real games. This team could certainly take some time to gel, but I think we definitely have enough firepower to compete with all comers.
Yeah I mentioned this in another thread. Seemed clear DG wanted others to shine.
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Self also mentioned post game that Devonte’s “body is a little tired” … but not hurt.
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@KUSTEVE I actually think they are ahead of last year’s team at the same point. Boy, the beginning of last year was bad, bad, bad - iirc they committed around 25 turnovers against washburn. That ain’t good at all, boys and girls.
The passing and movement was excellent, as Bill said, for twenty minutes. I think what happened was we got up so quickly - up thirty in ten minutes, and then relaxed, along with some bonehead fouls.
To me, Billy appears to be oour most versatile and may be most talented guy. Our ceiling goes way up when he stays out of foul trouble.
It will take a bit, but I see Dok and Billy having the potential to be this year’s version of Meeks and Hicks from Carolina last year. I think if they can stay on the floor would be a matchup nightmare. Arizona, Duke and Michigan State will get all the hype this year, but our potential is just as good and we’ll be underrated all year. And that’s fine. I prefer to not have all the media attention.
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@HawkChamp I thought we settled for jump shots for a good while, and looked rushed. When we started working the ball inside, I thought we looked better. I would like to see Newman and DG drive the ball more.
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I just wanna see vick jump
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You know, its interesting what teams have succeeded in the tournament (final four or further) and which ones haven’t. You can have all the pieces, depth and experience possible and yet still lose. We had great teams the last two years and yet fizzled out to the same style of team. 2010 and 2011 teams only lost two games going into March and had loads of talent and depth and yet still lost. Izzo’s teams with all the pieces still lose early sometimes. Arizona, even with all the talent and experience last year, still fizzled out in the sweet sixteen to Xavier, an 11, and yet everyone is talking about how they have a much better chance than we do. Sorry, I disagree. Arizona and Michigan State don’t have any better chance to get to San Antonio than we do - thats just not how the tournament works.
I say this because I’m reading what others are saying elsewhere on other KU sites and many think the elite eight is this team’s ceiling. I’m sure they thought the sweet sixteen was the 2012 team’s ceiling. Its important to not predict stuff like that because it is impossible to predict what will happen over the course of the season.
For those questioning our big man depth, which may or may not be a problem, how many bigs did Nova ACTUALLY play on their way to the title? That’s right - only one. And yet they still beat a team with four legit 6’10, 6’11 bigs in the title game. Need I mention UConn again? Its all about guard play, and I am stoked after seeing our guards these last few exhibition games, especially Marcus Garrett.
Ive been saying it a lot lately - play smart, not stupid. Given that there are no injuries, if our bigs play SMART, such as not committing stupid fouls and stuff like that, we will be fine. Dok trying to poke an entry pass away is stupid play - no reason to be risking fouls like that. We can play traditional, or we can play four out (probably for the majority). We saw how effective the guard oriented offense was last year and how we completely dominated a much larger Purdue team. Btw, have I mentioned how I love Billy’s skill? His fadeaway is money.
My only concern is with injuries, everything else I am less concerned with.
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@Crimsonorblue22 last night wasn’t enough for you?
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@HawkChamp fun! Need it every game. He’s so athletic.
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@HawkChamp Oh I get what your saying - -you mean like Billy last night trying to dribble down the court and act like a point guard and knock the guy over get the charge called on himself and knock himself senseless - - -THOSE type of stupid fouls/plays lmao – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 yeah thats what I’m preaching about lol. But its so preventable! Very rarely can you score in transition against three guys. He won’t ever be able to do that against real teams, maybe one on one or two but never on three.
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jayballer54 said:
@HawkChamp Oh I get what your saying - -you mean like Billy last night trying to dribble down the court and act like a point guard and knock the guy over get the charge called on himself and knock himself senseless - - -THOSE type of stupid fouls/plays lmao – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
What is so funny to me about the play is something no one has mentioned: that poor Pittsburg player, planted and trying to figure out how to cut off the drive, was probably assuming he’d have to shade one direction or another. Just waiting to be made to look ridiculous, frozen like the deer in headlights. So here comes Billy, who doesn’t commit one way or the other, and plows into him with 240 pounds of packed muscle and bone. Even then, his first reaction has to be, “I’m going to die!” Only to see Billy be the one having to leave shaken up.
Ends up being a great play by the guy, but did he ever think he’d be the winner in that confrontation?
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@jayballer54 oh yah, I’m with you on all your points man. I just really enjoyed watching KU ball again. Hasn’t been that long since Italy but still!
Yah, it was a decent litmus test just for them to play against someone NOT the scout team. Udoka looked good to me at times and then also looked to be still learning the game. He has to post position earlier against Div 1 competition. I mean he is big and he’ll take that power dribble and make space either way but div 1 guys will be harder to back down. And yah he has to work on his FTs. Has to. Lots.Mitch was awesome. I thought all our guards were great. Vick and Newman and Garrett. Those guys are Gooooood!
Yah, DG just coasted this game. its ok. He’ll be ready. this is his team.
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@Lulufulu I’m concerned about Lightfoot’s lack of rebounds. In 25 min., he only had one rebound. He’s so active that it surprises me he isn’t rebounding better.
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stoptheflop said:
@Lulufulu I’m concerned about Lightfoot’s lack of rebounds. In 25 min., he only had one rebound. He’s so active that it surprises me he isn’t rebounding better.
At this point, he is essentially a walk-on. Which…is fine. The end of the bench is generally not going to be super talented, kids want to play after all. The big issue is because of roster construction and having to take transfers he is the third big. He is the #8/9 instead of #12/13. There is a reason players like SDS and McCormack are not afraid to commit. They will be slotting into 2/3 or 3/4 in the post rotation immediately. The slot change depends on what Doke does.
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@Lulufulu agree about the free throws for Dok but actually it hasn’t been as bad as some feared. I think he’s shot like 3/6 against both Missouri and Pitt state. For him that’s not bad and better than 30 or 40%.
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HawkChamp said:
@Lulufulu agree about the free throws for Dok but actually it hasn’t been as bad as some feared. I think he’s shot like 3/6 against both Missouri and Pitt state. For him that’s not bad and better than 30 or 40%.
I’d kill for like 55% season average from Doke.
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I think 55% from the line for Doke is extremely optimistic. He’s shooting stroke is not that great, and he doesn’t exactly have “touch” around the rim. It’s going to take another couple of years to smooth that out to make him a passable FT shooter. If he can get around 50% then he at least won’t be an automatic foul any time he catches near the rim. Either that, or he has to dunk guys through the rim so they are afraid to take a foul.
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Well I don’t think it will happen either hence being willing to theoretically kill for it (joking of course).
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3 blocks though…
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Based on the current FT stats we have for Doke, I am sure KU will see a lot of “poke-a-Doke” from other teams in close games, so he will likely be sitting at the end of close games. Lightfoot’s FT numbers are not much better either.
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@JayHawkFanToo Doke missed most of last year which hurt his conditioning and experience. I was thinking it was his left hand that was in a cast for so long. If so, I think he could have still been able to shoot free throws. He should have been required to shoot 500 a day. That should have been enough to get him to 55-60% or better. I do not know what the staff had him doing, but seems to me that would have been something he could have handled even in a cast.
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@justanotherfan Doke has a stroke from the free throw line lol? - what am I missing? - -sometime glad the rim and especially the backboard are as strong as they are - -really ugly. We have had some poor free throw shooters in the past BUT poor Doke takes them all I think - -still a beast love him.
I remember many many many moons ago back when I was in High School and playing Basketball Our Coach would make us shoot 100 free throws everyday before practice - -for everyone we missed we would have to run a lap - -seems to have worked out pretty good for us - you sure didn’t want to miss many lol.
Something else little bit of a side item here. I know e have seen at least maybe some others besides me in the past have noticed some in recent years seemed like we have had some players work hard to post up -get great position or get a perfect pass an instead of flushing the ball - -attacking the rim - they wanted to finer roll the ball off the backboard lay it up easy off the glass - -that’s always been a pet peeve of mine - -take the dam ball to the hole - -make that defender pay for getting beat. - -Kind of like old " Chocolate Thunder " Daryl Dawkins use to do - just destroy the rim lol.
Another instance of when I was playing high school ball , back in my day Hell if you had a guy like we did during this time frame we had a 6’5 Center - -yes Center and that was big during that time anyways around our parts it was - he had some huge game - 51 pt games 53 pt games - -
Anyways use to love it - Coach get so mad during practice - Coach would get a latter - -get two basketballs - climb the ladder and then drop both balls through the rim at the same time and he would say now if I can put two balls through this rim then you guys should sure the hell be able to put one through - -talking about our shooting lol.
He also would get all over our 6’5 center - -he would walk to and point up to the rim , he would say - - -" Randall THIS is an apparatus - - then he would show our Center the Basketball & he would say " Randall this is a BALL " - -NOW Randall take THE BALL - - to the APPARTUS - -use to laugh my ass off at that lmao - - Sorry guys got side tracked but thought maybe some might get a little mini ha ha at of that possible - -sorry. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Based on the current FT stats we have for Doke, I am sure KU will see a lot of “poke-a-Doke” from other teams in close games, so he will likely be sitting at the end of close games. Lightfoot’s FT numbers are not much better either.
It actually was pointed out during the exhibition the other night actuall in the amount of attempts for time played Mitch -actually had a worse pct lol - -WHAT? - -Is that even possible lol - -Mitch was like 2-10 - -2-11 OMG lol - - - these are free uncontested points we are giving away. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Its a pet peeve of mine as well when big guys don’t DUNK the basketball. If you have been blessed to be big and strong, you should use that in a game that rewards size and strength the way that basketball does. If you’re built like Shaq, you shouldn’t play like Isaiah Thomas. Sometimes, I think being that big at a young age hinders guys in their development because they pick up tons of fouls early in life when kids that aren’t as big and strong get knocked over by them.
A lot of times, that makes them timid around the basket (avoiding contact, etc). Its a flaw in the way kids develop at the earliest stages that takes years to un-teach.
Big guys should always take the BALL to the APPARATUS.
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@justanotherfan Exactly -Coach would love that lol. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I recall the Morrii thought it used up to much energy to dunk their first year. I’ve played plenty of INTENSE driveway games on a nine foot rim and I actually agree that it’s a lot harder to stretch and dunk than shoot a bunny layup.
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Actually, most coaches prefer players score a layup than a dunk since it takes a lot less energy. Coach Self has said that himself and so has Coach Williams who cited a practice drill at North Carolina where layups were worth 3 point and dunks 1.
I understand that dunks are attractive to fans and at times can create momentum, but generally speaking, dunks take a lot more energy than a layup and count the same 2 points.
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DanR said:
I recall the Morrii thought it used up to much energy to dunk their first year. I’ve played plenty of INTENSE driveway games on a nine foot rim and I actually agree that it’s a lot harder to stretch and dunk than shoot a bunny layup.
psssssssssssssssssssssst please lol - – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 it’s true, I remember that. And it makes sense, but you have to get the two points, even if it means more energy. We’ve left way too many points on the court by just laying it up.
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@JayHawkFanToo Oh mercy - -I played all 4 yrs of high School ball- -had plenty of dunks I’m not hearing how thy take up more energy sorry - -please don’t take personal BUT Dunks is 99% adrenolin I CAN NOT stand to see a player that bust his ass to establish post position - -get fed the ball and then some lane ass finger roll that has that chance of being swatted. - Take the ball to the rim with authority, you need to let these guys know who controls the paint - -This is MY AREA - I OWN THIS - - I did it in school let these guys know your the intimidator not passive - -I don’t buy it, seen way to may cases of the opposite. On top of that I have seen multiple times where guys want to finger roll and STILL blow the layup - - FLUSH the dam ball you posted - -now finish- -Sorry bud I’m not buying that crap - -Basketball is a lot more physical then people know you wanna be a finger roller or a flusher? - -Ask Dawkins like he always said when I go up - -that’s MY TIME -DO NOT challenge me.
Let me ask you bud - -what’s easier to get blocked - -a finger roll - -OR a monster flush - -block this, let these butt’s know who controls the paint - -a player needs to be rewarded - -not posterized by a in your face block. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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HawkChamp said:
@jayballer54 it’s true, I remember that. And it makes sense, but you have to get the two points, even if it means more energy. We’ve left way too many points on the court by just laying it up.
lLike I said I power flushed many of possessions - -guess I’m must be in the minority BUT I don’t care - -I guess I must be the only one that felt like Thunder - -why the hell do I want to patsy finger roll when I get the chance to FINISH - -I don’t get it - - is there a higher percentage shot then a power flush? - -Please explain - -finger roll - -rejection - -Power flush - - get the hell out of my way - you tell me which has the better chance? - - I’ll tell you - I had many more AND ONES from dunking then a lame finger roll, I can’t stand to see a player bust his ass to establish position only to finger roll - -get it blocked or plain out blow the bunny - So tell me which is the better shot? – I never heard any complaints when I was playing lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I want Doke to break them in half with massive thunder dunks. If DG and Newman want to use a finger roll, that’s fine with me. But not Doke. Doke, see the apparatus…well, you know the drill …lol.
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@KUSTEVE Rather not break his hand doing it, tho!
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KUSTEVE said:
@jayballer54 I want Doke to break them in half with massive thunder dunks. If DG and Newman want to use a finger roll, that’s fine with me. But not Doke. Doke, see the apparatus…well, you know the drill …lol.
Lol - - -ya DOKE - -this is a apparatus - - Doke this is a Ball - - Now Doke - -take the ball to the APPARTUS lmao - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
