Checkmate - Border War Back On



  • My wife made me promise not to gloat. This has nothing to do with gloating. This is about all KU fans.

    Some things in life are too easy. As humans, we find a way to make things difficult. Most of the time when we over think things that are really quite easy, and not complex.

    Sometimes in life you just need to do what feels good – or more precisely, what makes you feel alive.

    Guys, seriously, that was fun. If you did not enjoy that experience as a KU fan, I need to check to see if you have a pulse.

    The thing about topics like this is folks get entrenched. They feel like they don’t want to lose an argument. They can’t step back and just see what happened. Open their minds, recalculate, and reconsider.

    I have been critical that emotions have outweighed logic. The logic, in part, being the undeniable enjoyment that came from the rivalry throughout our history as a University. No one has denied that. Thus, it is fact. Now, we can take the emotions we felt today and compare that to the emotions related to whatever we perceive that MU did to us. The things that hurt our feelings.

    Bars throughout the city packed with folks watching PPV. 18,000+ PPV buys. 18,000+ tickets sold out in record time. Countless others listening on the radios. It was the sole topic for KU and MU fans this past week.

    Quote after quote from Bill Self, former players, and all the ships at sea. “Tremendous” was a word used. “Amazing” I heard on the radio after the game. “Most anticipated exhibition game in history”, said Self. “Incredible atmosphere” I heard (and saw). “Raucus Border War” said KUsports. Just take the time to read and absorb over the next few days. Undeniable.

    We should play MU because the game evokes passion like no other opponent.

    We should play for US, irrespective of what it does or doesn’t do for the enemy.

    Bill Self will say that he will do what’s best for Kansas. Today, there is no doubt. In fact, there never was. Bill Self, while a great coach and leader, is wrong on this topic about what’s best for KU. He knows it.

    As I have mentioned, sit back and wait for an announcement down the road. It will take a few months. But it will happen.

    The phrase, cutting off your nose to spite your face is perhaps the most apt analogy. You can let whatever anger or resentment you have stop you from enjoying one of the greatest sports rivalries in the nation. Or you can just enjoy.

    And instead of standing against the strong current of the river, you can hop on and ride down stream.

    Life is good. And it is great to be a Jayhawk. We came out in the second half and dominated our rival – and they are still our rival. And we are still better.

    Today the debate concluded. Checkmate.

    Rock Chalk!



  • @HighEliteMajor I will be very curious to see if we do, indeed, start the rivalry again in the short run. If I had to guess…I would say Self waits a while longer…but we will see.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    And if KU lost we would hear nothing from you. It’s easy to claim check mate because KU won.

    Yet what if KU lost? This was just an exhibition game. Yet this game would have cost KU so much if the final score was different. And yet it was just an exhibition.

    I agree with you on one front if KU is going to sacrifice so much then just play in the regular season so at the very least it counts for something.

    You think KU has bragging rights after this game? Well then enjoy your morning KC star paper in the morning. Doubt KU gets much love. In fact enjoy the media sports outlets in KC from here on out. Cause KU fans and you are going to get a big dose of MU basketball.

    But hey KU fans showed they are the most giving fans.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    And oh for the record I would never raise a knife to any of my body parts.

    The only think KU gained from playing this game is experience as some of our KU brethren have pointed out to me. Yet for an exhibition game?

    You really want KU playing top 25 teams in the exhibition season?



  • @HighEliteMajor

    Bill Self, while a great coach and leader, is wrong on this topic about what’s best for KU. He knows it.

    I see you are back to knowing more than Coach Self. 🙄



  • @DoubleDD KU has a pretty soft nonconference schedule this year. Missouri is going to be the 2nd or 3rd best team we play outside the B12 this year.

    We don’t necessarily need a top 25 game every exhibition season, but when we have a relatively weak nonconference schedule like this year, it’s not a bad thing to play a top 25 team like Missouri every once in awhile.



  • I’ve disagreed with Self on this from the beginning. KU-Mizzou is bigger than any one person within the rivalry, even Bill Self. This matchup needs to be a regular thing, period. I would argue the same had we lost today because rivalries in sports matter, and KU needs a rivalry that matters. Not K-State. Not Iowa State. A real rivalry that people on both sides care about year round.

    That’s Mizzou. Always has been. Just need to get the games going again. Play in KC every year in everything. Football at Arrowhead. Basketball at the Sprint Center. Baseball at the K or Community America. Soccer at Childrens Mercy Park. People would go because these are events, not just games.

    And that is why rivalries matter.



  • This was not a regular exhibition game, it was a one-of-a kind deal that needed a special waiver from the NCAA. Highly unlikely the NCAA will do it on a regular basis.

    Here are Coach Self thoughts on resuming the rivalry, you can draw your own conclusions.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    I get and respect what you saying. Plus the game was for a good cause. Look I’m not trying to the butt head even though it seems I am.

    I just don’t know why you play this game? I doesn’t even count, but MU basket just took a big step in the KC area because of this game. Tell me what KU gained besides experience? I’m cool as I don’t live in the KC area, Yet KU fans that do? Well get used to a heavy dose of MU basketball. Don’t think your going to tune in to the local sports stations or nightly news expecting KU love. Cause you isn’t going to get it. Get ready for a big dose of MU basketball.



  • Ah, the rivalry deniers. A grim group.

    Just enjoy.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    You say rivalry but KU owns MU in basketball. Are you speaking of a rivalry of slavery? Yea thats something to hang your hat on. This whole damn rivalry is based off slavery.

    Think about it.



  • 1,750,000 reasons to play today…($1,750,000 check made payable to the Relief Fund presented at halftime by the Head Coaches and ADs).



  • Home and away every year in the same conference. I have no problem with that.

    A game at “neutral” sprint would have been a big fat boring dud the last 5+ years because it would have been 90% KU fans and some empty seats



  • Speaking of “one of the greatest rivalries in the nation”, ESPN has an article buried in the NCAA basketball page about “Michael Porter’s debut”. Further down, something about the money raised. Further down, something about resuming the rivalry.

    Graham was mentioned in the last sentence of the second or third article.

    Maybe it’s the grey uniforms?



  • http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article180343846.html

    You can draw your own conclusions, from an outsider, someone who has nothing to do with Kansas City, KU, or MU.



  • @HighEliteMajor This is not your most compelling argument. Vahe came to the Star in 2013 after 25 years covering MU sports in St Louis, so he is hardly objective.



  • @HighEliteMajor And he is on record from before the exit by MU as hostile to KU not being willing to continue the athletics series.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/mu-ku-a-rivalry-like-no-other/article_926d4e88-65f4-5a4a-9dd5-b342876ca13c.html



  • Ok, i’m not a fan of Gregorian as a whole. But very good points.

    I’m not sure if anyone listened to Fescoe this morning. He was against playing. They talked unanimously about how their opinion has now changed. How Bill Self is wrong on this issue. How much fun the whole experience was. That the environment was electric. Everything we already know.

    They pointed out Self’s quotes about the players dealing with the environment, etc, and making the point that a game like this can only help the team deal with real, tourney like pressure.

    Deniers are losing. Just give it a few months. Self will ok the game, and then all of a sudden, because he says it’s ok, it will magically be ok.



  • Fescoe is a shmuck but I agree that KU should play this game.



  • I would suggest that @HighEliteMajor temper his expectations for fan interest if this becomes a series.

    This was a big deal because of KU’s / Self’s opposition to playing MU, and because there had been no games for five years. If we play them every year there will not be the same enthusiasm.

    Imagine the Olympic Games happening every year: they wouldn’t have the same aura.



  • @mayjay That one is gonna leave a mark…



  • @HighEliteMajor

    Fesco is still butt hurt from KU sports moving to 810AM and home of K-Stater and KU hater Kevin Kietzman.



  • @ParisHawk

    Spot on. I believe @KUSTEVE wrote that it was like hooking up with your former wife after many years; pretty good until you remember why you got divorced in the first place and then it becomes “coyote love.”



  • @JayHawkFanToo I don’t like my attempt at moderation being coupled with references to “coyote love”. Don’t drag me into your fight with @HighEliteMajor .



  • @ParisHawk

    I agreed with your post. Mine was referring to something @KUSTEVE wrote, as I clearly mentioned, and no relation to your post. Sorry if you took it that way, would you like me to delete my post?

    @HighEliteMajor and I disagree on the issue but it does not mean we are having fight. I disagree with him but respect his opinion and some of the points he makes are valid, I would only hope he feels the same way.



  • @JayHawkFanToo That was Jaybate. But I understand the concept.



  • @KUSTEVE

    Ooops. I though it was a really good analogy.



  • Thanks for the comments and for @DoubleDD for his strong opposition. Im kind of in the mood to move on to how great our team looks this season. Maybe we’ll see MU in March.

    Doke is no joke. Looks like he could be an All-American to be honest.



  • @HighEliteMajor On Doke, did you see how he got dissed by the Jabaar award prelim selections in my other post? Not among the top 20 centers in America. Mind-boggling to me!



  • @mayjay

    He had a very quiet first year so not necessarily unexpected. I believe that at this time it is just the pre-season “watch” list which gets tweaked as the season progresses. No doubt he will be a candidate as the season progresses.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    “We should play MU because the game evokes passion like no other opponent.”

    Dang right! We can’t manufacture that with these artificial rivalries… like KU vs UK. Yes… that is a great game, too, but in no way comes even close to the intensity of this historic rivalry.

    “Open their minds, recalculate, and reconsider.”

    That is exactly what I did a couple years ago. When Mizzou left our conference I said “don’t let the door hit you in the arse.” And when they wanted to play again I was on board with saying “no.”

    After time went by I realized just how bad we need this rivalry. The only negative to this is the possibility we could lose to a lower team and hurt our rankings. But now we can even eliminate that by keeping this as a exhibition game.

    IMHO, we need all the tough games we can schedule. We need the intensity of this challenge in order to prep for March and even prep for Big 12 play.

    Let’s just keep it like this… at Sprint Center every year so it is neutral and no funny business from the lowlife antlers.

    Yesterday felt like a March game. It was exciting to watch and helpful for our guys to get a game like this in. And now Bill can address our horrid rebounding and marginal defense.



  • @mayjay

    First… Doke can still earn his way onto that list. He hasn’t shown the outside world enough of anything to prove he belongs on that list.

    Doke needs to prove himself. That is great for all of us! He needs to show he can do more than dunk. He needs to show he can seal the boards and rebound. He needs to show he can defend (without fouling). He needs to show he can pass from the post. He needs to show he has stamina, too.

    Doke is a work in progress. We all need to temper our expectations and just let him develop. He has plenty of rough areas… his footwork is marginal. But his potential is off-the-charts! I’ve always been high on Doke, even when he was just a recruit.

    I’m thinking he will be a huge help to us by the end of the year and hopefully much sooner. But we do really have to wait and see. I’m still fearful of playing teams that use “hack a doke” as a strategy to come back in games.



  • JayHawkFanToo said:

    @mayjay

    He had a very quiet first year so not necessarily unexpected. I believe that at this time it is just the pre-season “watch” list which gets tweaked as the season progresses. No doubt he will be a candidate as the season progresses.

    Marques Bolden was on the list though. Lol.



  • He’s still picking out splinters.



  • @BShark

    He plays for Duke; obvious East Coast bias.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Well yeah. My point was just that he probably did less than Doke last year while being fully healthy.



  • Even for the deniers it would become the most anticipated game of the season if the series was renewed. Yesterday proves it.



  • Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but is the game posted somewhere?



  • @bskeet was on YouTube but removed. Not sure when it will be up again.



  • BShark said:

    JayHawkFanToo said:

    @mayjay

    He had a very quiet first year so not necessarily unexpected. I believe that at this time it is just the pre-season “watch” list which gets tweaked as the season progresses. No doubt he will be a candidate as the season progresses.

    Marques Bolden was on the list though. Lol.

    a backup center on the list ahahahaha



  • @BeddieKU23 Exactly.



  • Maybe too dramatic, but if Bolden picks KU, do we win the national championship last season? I’m quite sure his PT here would have been extensive after Doke’s injury. Obviously getting both he and Doke (guys like that) in the same class doesn’t happen much in CBB. Heck, both those guys could be starting right now for us. I think Bolden is the real deal, and the “real” has not been exposed yet. But I could be way off there …



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    Maybe too dramatic, but if Bolden picks KU, do we win the national championship last season? I’m quite sure his PT here would have been extensive after Doke’s injury. Obviously getting both he and Doke (guys like that) in the same class doesn’t happen much in CBB. Heck, both those guys could be starting right now for us. I think Bolden is the real deal, and the “real” has not been exposed yet. But I could be way off there …

    He sure seemed lost in the minutes he got from K. I can’t imagine Self would have figured out his issues either given his history with the OAD type bigs.

    The fact that he’s likely coming off the bench this year for Duke isn’t a big endorsement either.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    To answer your question, does KU win the Championship with Bolden? I would say no. Would he have trusted Bolden over Bragg who even after suspensions and drama was still a factor in the rotation until the Oregon game? Bolden had an almost forgettable freshman year himself, his body language was poor and his work ethic was definitely a reason he was on the bench. We all know Lucas had limitations but he did all he could for KU and he caught a matchup he simply was outmatched for (Oregon). I think we’d have to assume a lot of things to think Bolden was the missing answer to last years team. That Doke didn’t become a Hawk, that Bolden ended up a Hawk and didn’t have injury/work ethic/attitude issues playing for a Coach who’d rather sit his freshman big’s then play them.

    What would be your reasoning for Bolden being the difference maker for last years squad?



  • @BeddieKU23 A potiental answer to poor post play. It also would’ve allowed Self to move on from Bragg earlier. Bolden could’ve been a good player given the right set of circumstances. Would he have at KU? I don’t know, but we all know how the season did end - abused by athletic post plays.



  • To heck with Bolden though. If we are wishing I want a healthy Dok last year. Benefits us twice. Once when we win it all last year. And once again in his experience for this year as he was too young to go pro.



  • dylans said:

    @BeddieKU23 A potiental answer to poor post play. It also would’ve allowed Self to move on from Bragg earlier. Bolden could’ve been a good player given the right set of circumstances. Would he have at KU? I don’t know, but we all know how the season did end - abused by athletic post plays.

    I wanted Bolden in a KU uniform but after seeing how his year played out for another HOF coach I can’t help but think we got the better deal of the two (Doke vs Bolden) even despite Doke’s injury which nobody could predict. Bolden has been recruited over twice, first by Wendell Carter and Marvin Bagley. Duke wouldn’t have jumped through academic hoops to accommodate Bagley had they felt confident Bolden was their man. They regulate him to 1st big off the bench now and his role is probably where it belongs. We’ll see how this year plays out but I have an easier time envisioning excitement around players that actually wanted to play at KU then a player who wanted nothing to do with KU



  • Bolden was very close to transferring after last year.



  • @BShark bet he wishes he did now!



  • @HighEliteMajor

    …or he could be the next Karviar Shepherd; I seem to recall you being pretty bullish on him.


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