Border War to start back up??
-
Should have charged a small fee for late pm.
-
@JayHawkFanToo That is only assuming that the Sprint Center is actually charging both teams to host the event. I doubt that they are since they can just write this off as a charitable donation on their taxes and probably actually make more money doing that since they can get the full cost of the revenue they will “lose” written off of their taxes. As most corporations do. So instead of charging revenue and getting taxed on it. They can “donate” the facility and any revenue they would have made will be able to be written off on their taxes instead. So now they get their revenue plus the 33% tax they would have gotten on profits from it.
And, I guess we will see about ticket prices when they are released. I’ll go ahead and bet that they aren’t cheap and they do sell out. At full prices if not higher. I feel pretty confident that Devonte will still get 25ish minutes at the very least. If transfers can’t play, I feel pretty confident in that because then only 9 guys would be able to play right? I bet Cuonzo plays his best for a lot of minutes as well. He needs to see what he has. This will be a lot more competitive of a game than you are giving it credit for. Devonte would have played 30 minutes in Rome if there was a close game. Bill is too competitive. I would count on the same for this.
Finally, I agree that it would be the right thing to do just to donate. Something I have (and you have too apparently) done already. But now this is a chance to get money from those who haven’t donated yet. Or more from those that wouldn’t have otherwise donated more. And those who say that they would donate money instead of seeing this game are only willing to donate money in order for this game not to happen. It isn’t noble or less selfish. It is still a quid pro quo. Donation for no game is just as much of a quid pro quo as a donation for the game.
-
Can’t we just donate the money to hurricane relief? this program makes enough money. Muck Fizzou
-
@jayballer54 I completely agree with you. They are only doing it because they are “good” (at least on paper) right now.
-
Any team but Mizzou. Invite Wichita State to AFH or Sprint Center, why not. Mizzou turned its back on a 100 year old rivalry. Shun them forever!
-
Kusports.com pretty heavy on the no too. Same w/phog. Not many want to hang out w/the trash to the east. Someone suggested isu, they bring a great crowd.
-
And what taxes would that be? The Sprint Center is owned by the City and has a managing partner that runs the place and takes a percentage off the top, the rest is used to pay the bonds that were issued for the construction and currently, the revenue is not enough to pay the bonds and the city/tax payers have to foot the difference. The Sprint Center is in no position to give away badly needed revenue.
Do you really think the coaches will allow players go full blast for a meaningless exhibition game? The Italy trips was used to evaluate the level of play for the various plasters/lineups and I am pretty sure the coaching staff has it all pretty much figured out by now. If played, this will be no more than a exhibition scrimage, much like ones the team plays in the summer with former players. Can you imagine what would happen if they go full blast and one of the key players, say Doke, gets injured and is out for the season? That would pretty much ruin the entire season; no way Coach Self risks it in a meaningless game. Other than some early press, zero upside for a KU.
-
“Trash to the east”? I dislike MU with the best of them, but the foolish statements never cease to amaze me. It’s just sports.
@JayHawkFanToo So are you suggesting they don’t play full speed? How else do you play? You take it easy? You can get hurt just as easily in practice.
Play hard and kick their tails. Full out. Game on.
-
@JayHawkFanToo @Crimsonorblue22
@HighEliteMajor and I have previously disagreed on the issue of playing them, but not this time. I am surprised at the amount of resistance, because I always thought the best argument against playing was that there was no really good reason to. Now there is.
People also need to realize how much the kids might want to do this. They may have seen the fundraising efforts of UK. Many come from highly disadvantaged backgrounds and want to do something to help the many people who have been left virtually destitute by the storms. A game that brings enemies together for a good cause is a no-brainer. And pretty welcome as an example, actually, as our culture keeps careening toward deep rifts that threaten to become permanent.
As to all the worry about injury possibilities, if the coaches are willing to risk it, I don’t think they need our oversight on what is wise. If the game were to be forced on the coaches, I would feel different, but why trust HCBS on everything about running his team except this?
HEM and I have used the divorcing spouses analogy before. In this case, it is like two spouses who hate each other working together to provide desperately needed emergency care to their kid.
There is a time to set aside grievances in service of a greater good. And consider the headlines if petulance rules the day: “KU Won’t Play Mizzou Even To Raise Money For Hurricane Victims: Angry Fanbase Says It Isn’t Worth It” with a sidebar on the UK total and other fundraising efforts.
-
@JayHawkFanToo First of all, a percentage off the top is funny. It is more like 50-50 split. Except that AEG gets the first 16% and then it is split 50-50 after that. Also, it is 100% AEGs decision as to whether or not the donate a game to charity. NOT the cities. Secondly, the city pays back those bonds with taxes on hotels and rental cars. Not the building itself. So, yes, AEG very well could “donate” the facilities and there isn’t a damn thing that the city could do about it. Nor would it really affect the city in any way. The money the city makes from the Building, doesn’t pay back the bonds. It is the reason that the Sprint Center has been upgraded before. Those funds go back into the building or to unrestricted city use.
And both teams will play their players. Last season, Frank played 52 minutes in two exhibitions last season. Devonte played 50 minutes. Josh Jackson played 45 minutes. Year before: Frank played 47 minutes in two games, Perry Ellis played 48 minutes and Devonte played 55 minutes. Year before that: Perry played 39 minutes. Frank played 45 minutes, Wayne played 41 minutes. The players we want to see will play 20 hard minutes damn near guaranteed. Which I would very much play full price for.
If the coaches already figured it out, why do we play the other two exhibition games? I mean that is also a meaningless risk for injury right? And yet our players appear to play hard and for 20 minutes at least. I just don’t see your point being factual in any way whatsoever. You couldn’t find data to support your claim if you wanted to. Bill Self is competitive and will play his team to win the game when push comes to shove. Doesn’t matter who they are playing.
Do you, or do you not agree that paying to play is the same quid pro quo as not paying to play?
What is the main reason you are so against this?
I am also going to challenge you, @HawkInMizery, and @Crimsonorblue22 to start a crowd source funding page to try to raise money to see this game not happen. If you do in fact raise more money than will get donated to Hurricane relief than if the game were to be played, I will gladly succeed all points I have made. I won’t watch the game, and I will donate to your fund as well. But, if you don’t raise enough money, you should not watch the game or support it in any way and you should donate the cost of a ticket to charity anyways.
-
@HighEliteMajor Right? I call someone selfish for not wanting money to be donated to charity (not even asking them to donate the money themselves) and get crap from the very same person who then calls other people trash without knowing what they do on their own time.
-
@Kcmatt7 Well, it is always better to avoid negative comments about other posters.
-
HighEliteMajor said:
“Trash to the east”? I dislike MU with the best of them, but the foolish statements never cease to amaze me. It’s just sports.
@JayHawkFanToo So are you suggesting they don’t play full speed? How else do you play? You take it easy? You can get hurt just as easily in practice.
Play hard and kick their tails. Full out. Game on.
It’s just sports should be the takeaway for everyone. Raises money for a great cause. Some people are nuts.
-
@mayjay I didn’t actually specifically call anyone selfish… But agreed. I just got a little carried away when people basically said they would rather money not get donated to Hurricane relief that could really help people that now literally have nothing, than see this basketball game get played. But like I said, you are right, I shouldn’t have called anyone selfish for that no matter how selfish it is.
-
The Phog thread on this is UNREADABLE in case anyone was wondering.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor Right? I call someone selfish for not wanting money to be donated to charity (not even asking them to donate the money themselves) and get crap from the very same person who then calls other people trash without knowing what they do on their own time.
Are you referring to me? I have already donated to the Harvey and Florida victims since I have many friend in that state where my father lived for 20 years. Furthermore, I don’t have any problem with anyone else donating and I don’t seem to recall calling other people trash.
The exhibition games that KU and every other major program play are just that, exhibition games, where players do not have to go full blast because even at a fourth speed they will win the game and it helps in-state schools a great deal; you might say they are fundraisers of sort for those schools. These games are scheduled precisely because players have not yet reached their peak physical conditioning and less stressful games are need to are gradually get there. If KU plays MU, do you think that MU will come to have a simple exhibition game where both teams play a relaxed game just to entertain? Nope, they will come to get a win at all costs because for the first time in many years they believe they have a decent team and who knows when it will be the next time both teams play again.
I would be more open to playinmg Wichita State and make it an all-Kansas game and it probably raise as much or more money. Better yet, I would have preferred they charge a small admission fee to late night with all the proceed going to charity; a $10 fee would have raised $150K easily and with additional donation it could have been much higher.
Last, we all have our own opinions on the subject and we should respect them regardless of how different they are to ours. We can agree to respectfully disagree without getting personal, right?
-
It’s me! I’m the selfish one.
-
@KCmatt7 Have you donated yet? I have and didn’t need to be given something in return. This is a great way to get people who wouldn’t donate just for the good of others to give, it’s a way to get selfish bastards to give something and feel good about themselves.
JJ Watt raised over 30 million dollars. Do you really think this is for Hurricane aid? Is it for the people of Houston or the Caribbean? Why wait until now while KU needs a distraction?
Did no one watch Indecent Proposal? No one wins that deal.
Unfortunately KU needs a distraction. Unfortunately this is a great one. I hate using charity as a cover.
-
This is like the alcoholic who swears he/she can have just one again.
-
@JayHawkFanToo I didn’t refer to you in that scenario. I will be glad to agree to disagree with you, on the basis that I feel like you did absolutely no research or math or anything to further your argument other than rely on your stubbornness, emotions and assumptions.
-
mayjay said:
@JayHawkFanToo @Crimsonorblue22
@HighEliteMajor and I have previously disagreed on the issue of playing them, but not this time. I am surprised at the amount of resistance, because I always thought the best argument against playing was that there was no really good reason to. Now there is.
People also need to realize how much the kids might want to do this. They may have seen the fundraising efforts of UK. Many come from highly disadvantaged backgrounds and want to do something to help the many people who have been left virtually destitute by the storms. A game that brings enemies together for a good cause is a no-brainer. And pretty welcome as an example, actually, as our culture keeps careening toward deep rifts that threaten to become permanent.
As to all the worry about injury possibilities, if the coaches are willing to risk it, I don’t think they need our oversight on what is wise. If the game were to be forced on the coaches, I would feel different, but why trust HCBS on everything about running his team except this?
HEM and I have used the divorcing spouses analogy before. In this case, it is like two spouses who hate each other working together to provide desperately needed emergency care to their kid.
There is a time to set aside grievances in service of a greater good. And consider the headlines if petulance rules the day: “KU Won’t Play Mizzou Even To Raise Money For Hurricane Victims: Angry Fanbase Says It Isn’t Worth It” with a sidebar on the UK total and other fundraising efforts.
Doesn’t the level of resistance to this game give you pause? Are you right and well over 90% of fans wrong (according to most threads I have seen in several sports sites and social media)?
What makes you think the players want this? Most of the players have little knowledge of what happened in the past and how Missouri’s actions seriously jeopardized KU sports viability. Had the conference dissolved, there was a good chance KU ends up in the Mountain West conference as many predicted.
In sports, I do not consider Missouri “the enemy,” just a neighbor I with whom I prefer not to associate.
According to many studies, a good deal of sports injuries happen during practice before the season starts because athletes have not yet reached peak condition. This is why teams are brought along slowly and exhibition games scheduled before competition starts. Playing what could be a highly competitive game would not seem advisable hence my opinion that it might not be played at full speed.
Maybe the headline should be Kansas teams (KU-WSU-KSU) raise money for hurricane victims, challenge Missouri teams to do the same. BTW, I did not see UK playing anyone to raise money, right?
Last and more important, in your divorce from HEM, who is the husband and who is the wife? Inquiring minds want to know.
-
We live in a weird world. Just a couple years ago I was putting the idea up that we should restart the border war because real rivals can’t be manufactured by shoeco marketeers. I stated a level of envy at the UK vs UL rivalry. Didn’t take them many years of playing again to label it “the greatest rivalry in college basketball.”
Look how everything seems to be flipping. The UK vs UL rivalry is under threat because of UL’s troubles. Meanwhile… suddenly Kansas has a reason to play Missouri again. I wondered how long it would take for this rivalry to return. When people fall in love, it is really tough to keep them apart. The same can be said for people who hate each other. Throw in all the publicity… and money… and now we have…
“AMERICA’S RIVALRY!” Yes… the new marketing slogan for this. And it does fit. It’s about hate, money and fame! Ha… Bring it on! lol
But seriously, you all know that if we lose this game we will be pushed right back into the rivalry again. You think we will sleep good at night with a smackdown hanging over us?
-
@dylans You may have missed it or just jumped in halfway through without reading the thread, but I already stated that I have donated. And I did not need to donate for anything in return either.
Does it matter that a lot of money could be donated to Hurricane Aid? Why do we care if it is a cover-up? As long as money does get donated to people who very much need it, does it matter?
I don’t even think it is a cover personally. It takes a little more logistics than just calling up the Sprint Center and Mizzou and asking them if they are free next Sunday. The timing was purely coincidental. That story the UDK published was trash and a great big nothingburger. It hasn’t even been picked up by a major network because I’m sure that they file FOIA requests all the time and literally get the same response.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I didn’t refer to you in that scenario. I will be glad to agree to disagree with you, on the basis that I feel like you did absolutely no research or math or anything to further your argument other than rely on your stubbornness, emotions and assumptions.
…and yet you are still getting personal. SMH.
-
I have nothing against raising money for hurricane relief, but I don’t get why suddenly THIS is this “cause” to play an exhibition game. If it was to help after a catastrophe in Missouri/Kansas (like the Joplin tornado), it would make more sense to shake hands and entertain the fans for a regional cause. The motivation smells fishy to me.
-
And by fishy, I mean that I wouldn’t be surprised if people at Mizzou came up with the idea.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Factual. Not personal.
-
@DanR Bingo. Of course it smells fishy. It is fishy. It is cover in my opinion. The reality is that this is a first step where we can save face and get back to playing our real rival. We can then all say we liked it so much, the fans loved it, blah, blah, blah, and then we’ll be back playing again. Where we should have been after a year post-MU leaving. But when you’re so rigid out of the box, backing off is very difficult. Look, as I’ve pointed out here many, many times, the hypocrisy of not playing MU while playing all the other defectors, is undeniable at this point. This allows us to grow up … er, move forward. And allows Self an out. But that’s all just speculation here.
And I do apologize for the jabs at the “don’t play MU ever, ever again because they betrayed us and hurt our feelings and cheated on us and we don’t gain anything from playing them because it’s better to play Davidson or Utah or Omaha and, Chase Daniel picked his nose on TV and, well, they’re just bad people” crowd. It’s not right for me to poke a little fun on this topic. Again, my apologies.
Everyone, please smile … we’ll kick their a**.
-
@JayHawkFanToo If @HighEliteMajor and I can actually agree on an end resolution to something, if not the cause of the problem, then yes, we are probably right and you are wrong. That actually cannot be true of an opinion about “should we play?” but since you asked I think the path of helping people, even if playing against a school you despise, is the correct one and, given the choice, the moral one.
And I think fundraising efforts like this are designed to generate donations as well as ticket sales. In which case, to be tax deductible, there will likely be major auditing to ensure funds collected get donated as intended.
Finally, to anyone saying they would be happy instead to attend a charity game for local causes instead of this–Wow. Just right altruistic of you. Puerto Rico or the VI just don’t rank up there in deserving your help? (Texas and Florida were hit hard but have vastly more resources to draw on, and are geographically located to obtain resources, so my focus is the islands.)
-
Bill Self hoping to raise over $1m with this. I think it is safe to say ticket sales will not be an issue.
-
Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 That isn’t the scenario we are in.
A game vs. KSU makes no sense for either team strategically. UMKC wouldn’t sell out. Wichita St. might have sold out. Maybe. Nebraska wouldn’t sell out. There isn’t anyone within driving distance who could play this game next Sunday and sell out the Sprint Center.
This is a guaranteed sell out and it will sell out in a day once tickets go up for sale. At outrageous prices I would assume.
Who else could make that work? Logistically. Who could get their team to KC to play a sold out game? Pull their players out of class for the time needed to play that game? Who would be willing to give up practices even if they flew in Saturday and left Sunday after the game? Nope.
I’m sorry, but this makes sense. Both economically and logistically.
Who would of thought the 24 year old on the forum would be the rational one in this discussion…
Do you need help with your broken arm? The one you are patting yourself on the back with? You’ll swallow any explanation given, won’t you?
-
-
Bill Self? It’s kinda like some political clown recently said about the U.S. Secretary of State: I like him alright; I just wish he was a little tougher! This bullet he bit probably chipped a couple of incisors.
-
Do you think the decision was made by people above his pay grade? figuratively speaking, of course…
-
Not going to be televised or streamed anywhere - -just going to be on each school’s network. 200.00 courtside seats. - This is crazy but since it’s happening kick their dam ass back to Columbia.
You would of NEVER EVER seen or heard ANYTHING out of Mizzery if it wasn’t for Porter. - -Time for Class. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
@JayHawkFanToo Heck, I’m not sure that anyone at KU sits above Bill’s pay grade. But I do imagine that he was moved by some political clout; maybe something by way of future funding for the university…or bigtime donor advice. Perhaps BigShoe made the decision?
-
Since Coach Self is the highest paid KU employee, I used the term “figuratively;” many other decision makers above Coach Self.
-
It’s been announced: we play Misery October 22nd:
-
-
jaybate 1.0 said:
I would rather play North Korea than Fizzou!
And I oppose playing North Korea!
I’d support that if it raised money. One huge caveat: Little Rocket Man does NOT get Big Dennis Rodman on his team.
-
@jaybate-1.0 I’m not happy about it. Now I’m the dirty rotten cuss that cares more about hating those egg sucking dogs than I do helping hurricane victims. So, I get to feel guilty while my team plays the low life Misery Tiggers. The end could be near …hell might just freeze over.
-
@REHawk This game doesn’t happen without Self’s consent. He may not be the final word, but if he didn’t want this to happen, this game doesn’t happen.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 “With that in mind, I contacted Coach Martin and discussed the possibility of us playing an exhibition game for the benefit of so many affected by the catastrophic storms. We both felt that this would be a great opportunity to impact others.”
-
@KUSTEVE I am with you. I am not against raising money for anyone that has had to go thru what all these people have endured. Here is my selfish side. Has anyone considered that we only have 8 players (9 after first semester) to run thru 30 some odd games this season? While playing this good deed game, what if Udoka were to injure his hand again, or Devonte were to suffer an ankle or knee injury? Or God forbid, any injury to any of our very thin roster. Our season is over!!! Yes, that could happen in any game, or even practice, but this is a game that is being added to our schedule that we had not counted on playing. I would hope that the powers that be could come up with other ways to raise money without putting our players at risk. Yes I am very much against this game, be it Fizzou or anyone. Guess we had better hope and pray for the best.
-
I am perplexed with Bill’s change of heart.
I never threw away my old deer antler rack I used to stick in my grill when visiting Columbia. Guess I can dust that off.
Question for everyone… how long before the regular season rivalry is restored?
-
@jaybate-1-0 I hate dontating money too. THE worst. God forbid our university be associated with it in any way. I hope our current students and future alumni follow our current alumni’s lead and make sure that we never donate money to a good cause ever again. WHAT A PR NIGHTMARE! Self should probably be fired for this complete F-up. Absolutely embarrassing. If he ever even thinks about raising over a million dollars for charity again, he might as well pack up his office for good. Because I, for one, can’t stand when people can put aside their differences for a good cause. Just like the government, if it is bipartisan and good for the country, we probably shouldn’t do it.
-
drgnslayr said:
I am perplexed with Bill’s change of heart.
I never threw away my old deer antler rack I used to stick in my grill when visiting Columbia. Guess I can dust that off.
Question for everyone… how long before the regular season rivalry is restored?
Self says this will have no impact on that and he still doesn’t want to play them in a game that counts.
-
I suspect the actual gameplay will feel more like the NBA all-star game than a competitive game because that’s how you minimize the injury risks and still entertain the crowd.
-
KUSTEVE said:
It’s been announced: we play Misery October 22nd:
What a farse. Bill could raise more money just by asking. Wish I was wealthy enough to buy all the seats and make sure that sucker looks like a typical Missouri game. I’d hate for them to get spoiled by our crowd.
-
