Border War to start back up??
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mayjay said:
@JayHawkFanToo @Crimsonorblue22
@HighEliteMajor and I have previously disagreed on the issue of playing them, but not this time. I am surprised at the amount of resistance, because I always thought the best argument against playing was that there was no really good reason to. Now there is.
People also need to realize how much the kids might want to do this. They may have seen the fundraising efforts of UK. Many come from highly disadvantaged backgrounds and want to do something to help the many people who have been left virtually destitute by the storms. A game that brings enemies together for a good cause is a no-brainer. And pretty welcome as an example, actually, as our culture keeps careening toward deep rifts that threaten to become permanent.
As to all the worry about injury possibilities, if the coaches are willing to risk it, I don’t think they need our oversight on what is wise. If the game were to be forced on the coaches, I would feel different, but why trust HCBS on everything about running his team except this?
HEM and I have used the divorcing spouses analogy before. In this case, it is like two spouses who hate each other working together to provide desperately needed emergency care to their kid.
There is a time to set aside grievances in service of a greater good. And consider the headlines if petulance rules the day: “KU Won’t Play Mizzou Even To Raise Money For Hurricane Victims: Angry Fanbase Says It Isn’t Worth It” with a sidebar on the UK total and other fundraising efforts.
Doesn’t the level of resistance to this game give you pause? Are you right and well over 90% of fans wrong (according to most threads I have seen in several sports sites and social media)?
What makes you think the players want this? Most of the players have little knowledge of what happened in the past and how Missouri’s actions seriously jeopardized KU sports viability. Had the conference dissolved, there was a good chance KU ends up in the Mountain West conference as many predicted.
In sports, I do not consider Missouri “the enemy,” just a neighbor I with whom I prefer not to associate.
According to many studies, a good deal of sports injuries happen during practice before the season starts because athletes have not yet reached peak condition. This is why teams are brought along slowly and exhibition games scheduled before competition starts. Playing what could be a highly competitive game would not seem advisable hence my opinion that it might not be played at full speed.
Maybe the headline should be Kansas teams (KU-WSU-KSU) raise money for hurricane victims, challenge Missouri teams to do the same. BTW, I did not see UK playing anyone to raise money, right?
Last and more important, in your divorce from HEM, who is the husband and who is the wife? Inquiring minds want to know.
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We live in a weird world. Just a couple years ago I was putting the idea up that we should restart the border war because real rivals can’t be manufactured by shoeco marketeers. I stated a level of envy at the UK vs UL rivalry. Didn’t take them many years of playing again to label it “the greatest rivalry in college basketball.”
Look how everything seems to be flipping. The UK vs UL rivalry is under threat because of UL’s troubles. Meanwhile… suddenly Kansas has a reason to play Missouri again. I wondered how long it would take for this rivalry to return. When people fall in love, it is really tough to keep them apart. The same can be said for people who hate each other. Throw in all the publicity… and money… and now we have…
“AMERICA’S RIVALRY!” Yes… the new marketing slogan for this. And it does fit. It’s about hate, money and fame! Ha… Bring it on! lol
But seriously, you all know that if we lose this game we will be pushed right back into the rivalry again. You think we will sleep good at night with a smackdown hanging over us?
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@dylans You may have missed it or just jumped in halfway through without reading the thread, but I already stated that I have donated. And I did not need to donate for anything in return either.
Does it matter that a lot of money could be donated to Hurricane Aid? Why do we care if it is a cover-up? As long as money does get donated to people who very much need it, does it matter?
I don’t even think it is a cover personally. It takes a little more logistics than just calling up the Sprint Center and Mizzou and asking them if they are free next Sunday. The timing was purely coincidental. That story the UDK published was trash and a great big nothingburger. It hasn’t even been picked up by a major network because I’m sure that they file FOIA requests all the time and literally get the same response.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I didn’t refer to you in that scenario. I will be glad to agree to disagree with you, on the basis that I feel like you did absolutely no research or math or anything to further your argument other than rely on your stubbornness, emotions and assumptions.
…and yet you are still getting personal. SMH.
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I have nothing against raising money for hurricane relief, but I don’t get why suddenly THIS is this “cause” to play an exhibition game. If it was to help after a catastrophe in Missouri/Kansas (like the Joplin tornado), it would make more sense to shake hands and entertain the fans for a regional cause. The motivation smells fishy to me.
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And by fishy, I mean that I wouldn’t be surprised if people at Mizzou came up with the idea.
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@JayHawkFanToo Factual. Not personal.
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@DanR Bingo. Of course it smells fishy. It is fishy. It is cover in my opinion. The reality is that this is a first step where we can save face and get back to playing our real rival. We can then all say we liked it so much, the fans loved it, blah, blah, blah, and then we’ll be back playing again. Where we should have been after a year post-MU leaving. But when you’re so rigid out of the box, backing off is very difficult. Look, as I’ve pointed out here many, many times, the hypocrisy of not playing MU while playing all the other defectors, is undeniable at this point. This allows us to grow up … er, move forward. And allows Self an out. But that’s all just speculation here.
And I do apologize for the jabs at the “don’t play MU ever, ever again because they betrayed us and hurt our feelings and cheated on us and we don’t gain anything from playing them because it’s better to play Davidson or Utah or Omaha and, Chase Daniel picked his nose on TV and, well, they’re just bad people” crowd. It’s not right for me to poke a little fun on this topic. Again, my apologies.
Everyone, please smile … we’ll kick their a**.
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@JayHawkFanToo If @HighEliteMajor and I can actually agree on an end resolution to something, if not the cause of the problem, then yes, we are probably right and you are wrong. That actually cannot be true of an opinion about “should we play?” but since you asked I think the path of helping people, even if playing against a school you despise, is the correct one and, given the choice, the moral one.
And I think fundraising efforts like this are designed to generate donations as well as ticket sales. In which case, to be tax deductible, there will likely be major auditing to ensure funds collected get donated as intended.
Finally, to anyone saying they would be happy instead to attend a charity game for local causes instead of this–Wow. Just right altruistic of you. Puerto Rico or the VI just don’t rank up there in deserving your help? (Texas and Florida were hit hard but have vastly more resources to draw on, and are geographically located to obtain resources, so my focus is the islands.)
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Bill Self hoping to raise over $1m with this. I think it is safe to say ticket sales will not be an issue.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 That isn’t the scenario we are in.
A game vs. KSU makes no sense for either team strategically. UMKC wouldn’t sell out. Wichita St. might have sold out. Maybe. Nebraska wouldn’t sell out. There isn’t anyone within driving distance who could play this game next Sunday and sell out the Sprint Center.
This is a guaranteed sell out and it will sell out in a day once tickets go up for sale. At outrageous prices I would assume.
Who else could make that work? Logistically. Who could get their team to KC to play a sold out game? Pull their players out of class for the time needed to play that game? Who would be willing to give up practices even if they flew in Saturday and left Sunday after the game? Nope.
I’m sorry, but this makes sense. Both economically and logistically.
Who would of thought the 24 year old on the forum would be the rational one in this discussion…
Do you need help with your broken arm? The one you are patting yourself on the back with? You’ll swallow any explanation given, won’t you?
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Bill Self? It’s kinda like some political clown recently said about the U.S. Secretary of State: I like him alright; I just wish he was a little tougher! This bullet he bit probably chipped a couple of incisors.
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Do you think the decision was made by people above his pay grade? figuratively speaking, of course…
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Not going to be televised or streamed anywhere - -just going to be on each school’s network. 200.00 courtside seats. - This is crazy but since it’s happening kick their dam ass back to Columbia.
You would of NEVER EVER seen or heard ANYTHING out of Mizzery if it wasn’t for Porter. - -Time for Class. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Heck, I’m not sure that anyone at KU sits above Bill’s pay grade. But I do imagine that he was moved by some political clout; maybe something by way of future funding for the university…or bigtime donor advice. Perhaps BigShoe made the decision?
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Since Coach Self is the highest paid KU employee, I used the term “figuratively;” many other decision makers above Coach Self.
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It’s been announced: we play Misery October 22nd:
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jaybate 1.0 said:
I would rather play North Korea than Fizzou!
And I oppose playing North Korea!
I’d support that if it raised money. One huge caveat: Little Rocket Man does NOT get Big Dennis Rodman on his team.
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m not happy about it. Now I’m the dirty rotten cuss that cares more about hating those egg sucking dogs than I do helping hurricane victims. So, I get to feel guilty while my team plays the low life Misery Tiggers. The end could be near …hell might just freeze over.
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@REHawk This game doesn’t happen without Self’s consent. He may not be the final word, but if he didn’t want this to happen, this game doesn’t happen.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 “With that in mind, I contacted Coach Martin and discussed the possibility of us playing an exhibition game for the benefit of so many affected by the catastrophic storms. We both felt that this would be a great opportunity to impact others.”
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@KUSTEVE I am with you. I am not against raising money for anyone that has had to go thru what all these people have endured. Here is my selfish side. Has anyone considered that we only have 8 players (9 after first semester) to run thru 30 some odd games this season? While playing this good deed game, what if Udoka were to injure his hand again, or Devonte were to suffer an ankle or knee injury? Or God forbid, any injury to any of our very thin roster. Our season is over!!! Yes, that could happen in any game, or even practice, but this is a game that is being added to our schedule that we had not counted on playing. I would hope that the powers that be could come up with other ways to raise money without putting our players at risk. Yes I am very much against this game, be it Fizzou or anyone. Guess we had better hope and pray for the best.
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I am perplexed with Bill’s change of heart.
I never threw away my old deer antler rack I used to stick in my grill when visiting Columbia. Guess I can dust that off.
Question for everyone… how long before the regular season rivalry is restored?
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@jaybate-1-0 I hate dontating money too. THE worst. God forbid our university be associated with it in any way. I hope our current students and future alumni follow our current alumni’s lead and make sure that we never donate money to a good cause ever again. WHAT A PR NIGHTMARE! Self should probably be fired for this complete F-up. Absolutely embarrassing. If he ever even thinks about raising over a million dollars for charity again, he might as well pack up his office for good. Because I, for one, can’t stand when people can put aside their differences for a good cause. Just like the government, if it is bipartisan and good for the country, we probably shouldn’t do it.
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drgnslayr said:
I am perplexed with Bill’s change of heart.
I never threw away my old deer antler rack I used to stick in my grill when visiting Columbia. Guess I can dust that off.
Question for everyone… how long before the regular season rivalry is restored?
Self says this will have no impact on that and he still doesn’t want to play them in a game that counts.
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I suspect the actual gameplay will feel more like the NBA all-star game than a competitive game because that’s how you minimize the injury risks and still entertain the crowd.
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KUSTEVE said:
It’s been announced: we play Misery October 22nd:
What a farse. Bill could raise more money just by asking. Wish I was wealthy enough to buy all the seats and make sure that sucker looks like a typical Missouri game. I’d hate for them to get spoiled by our crowd.
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Loyal fans supporting the team.
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mayjay said:
I’d support that if it raised money. One huge caveat: Little Rocket Man does NOT get Big Dennis Rodman on his team.
Not buying this “if it raises money” argument for following reasons:
a.) not a big enough share will go to charity (too much will get pocketed before it reaches those in need), so they’ve got to come forward with the percentage of dollars raised that will get to those in need first;
b.) we can all pass the hat without playing Fizzou, and then the money won’t be tainted with historical slavery and recent racism;
c.) already gave money without having to say the word Fizzou; and
d.) will never consider doing anything with Fizzou unless Missourah Governor promises to donate all proceeds from Missourah meth production until Missourah stops all meth production.
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Best thing to happen to mizzou basketball since…
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@jaybate-1.0 Who will be pocketing money?
What does Meth have to do with donating money and why would that be a caveat of yours in this scenario?
Please pass the hat around and see if you can raise $1m+ to donate. Let me know how much you get.
How would this game be tainted with slavery and recent racism?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Looks like a picture of Memorial Stadium…
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@Kcmatt7 but it isnt
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@Kcmatt7 We will end up taking our medicine, but we don’t have to like it. This feels like Quantrill’s Raiders all over again.
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@BShark I read that. Mellinger is obsessed with trying to pressure KU into playing the egg sucking dogs every year. I think the exhibition takes the heat off Bill for not scheduling them from those that are caterwauling about us not playing them. smart strategic move on his part, although I would prefer we played UMKC. I think the draw would be about the same because our fanbase would buy up all the tickets. If we’re being made to pimp a program, I’d prefer UMKC.
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@KUSTEVE I actually agree with that. I would have preferred UMKC too.
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I had no idea there was such support for MU here, kinda makes me sick. Showing true colors??? Personally I’d rather see them burn (along with Nebraska, Colorado, and Tamu). Now how can KU say no when the SEC/Big12 challenge wants to pair them in the future? I know I rather see KU play Kentucky or Florida than Missouri.
How much money could this game raise? $200,000-500,000? $50/ ticket at 22,000 seats (price it any higher and it will be mostly empty) Gotta pay the staff and police for crowd control. It’s not fair to ask the tax payers of KC to pay for this charity event.
I still say Bill could raise over a $ million just by asking for donations and 100% of it would go to the charity.
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@KUSTEVE you just compared a basketball game to a massacre of 200 people.
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@dylans I had no idea there were so many people here that are against donating money to charity. Talk about showing true colors.
Posted this earlier. The City doesn’t run the Sprint Center. It is ran by another company. The City doesn’t pay for the Sprint Center using funds made at Sprint Center. Instead it uses funds from a hotel and rental car tax.
The deal the City has set up is this: AEG Worldwide operates the arena. They get the first 16% of whatever gets made. Then it is a 50-50 split on the remaining 84% at the end of the year. City gets no say on if AEG would like to donate this as a charity game or not.
And, the tickets will average closer to $100 a pop when it is all said and done. That is $1,800,000 before they pay anyone. Even if they have to pay police and staff, they are looking at $1M. And, Bill said that he thinks this will raise $1M.
How does this game effect KU in any way. How does this game prop up MU in any way? The game won’t even be televised Nationally. It is almost literally a pickup game that will be televised.
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Bill Self’s dad suggested they do this is what I read somewhere.
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@KUSTEVE UMKC wouldn’t have sold out in a weeks time. Can’t sell out Georgia at the Sprint Center with months and months of notice. And you couldn’t sell court side seats to it for $1,000ish a pop.
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Ok MUMatt.
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I don’t understand why you can’t grasp that this isn’t the only way to generate donations. I didn’t say don’t donate. I said don’t sell your soul. There is a major difference.
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dylans said:
Ok MUMatt.
A real clever one are we?
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@dylans But how can you raise as much money as possible?
“The opportunity to make an impact on those suffering as result of the hurricanes, through the game of basketball, is a great opportunity for our program,” Kansas coach Bill Self said. “How can we raise money to send to others? To me that trumped everything else that we could possibly do.”
Bill says exactly how I feel on this subject. And unless you can find me a way for a surefire $1M to be raised in a weeks time, maybe you should think about your own stance on it.
I just don’t understand how an untelevised practice game is selling our soul. I would like to be enlightened though, if you could help me with that? Maybe I just don’t see your side of it. I do in fact hate Mizzou. But, I do my best to not let emotion make my decisions in life. This game being played is logical from my viewpoint. I would like to understand yours if you could list out the reasons that you do not want this game played with an explanation. Feel free to write as long of a post as you need to be able to articulate your views, because I’ll be more than happy to read it.
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There are over 300 other Basketball teams that KU could play to accomplish the same goal. I feel KU could make MORE just by playing in Allen Fieldhouse and then they could control 100% of the costs to ensure the money gets where it is supposed to go. If it’s truly for charity wouldn’t UNC like some good pub about now? Or how about Kentucky/ Duke? Would they publicly pass on an opportunity to raise money for charity? How about playing Texas in Texas to raise money for Texans? I don’t see a good argument FOR missouri therefore I don’t see a need to further denounce them. (Game of throne’s reference here) It’s like the people who like the Lannisters. It doesn’t matter how dastardly they are the temptations are too great to stay away for the weak willed.
