KU Players Leaving/Staying Tracker
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Me, too. Your perspective on this is interesting. I can’t say I can recall enough of last year to compare. It would help to look at old video.
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I don’t understand why Trevon is pausing IF he is all Dook and they are pulling away in the “crystal ball,” then just commit already. However, unlike the other highly touted pg in the nation we missed, think Trevon has a set of different circumstances. I think if the kid is all Dook, he would’ve committed already. Something is causing him to pause and don’t think he’s 100% sold on Dook. He may go to Dook at this point, but hopefully KU is giving him fits. I also think Billy Preston may be our best recruiter at this point too.
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I’m sure if everything happens the way he’s talking maybe he decides in April. I wouldn’t hold my breathe for Duval, he’s an expert at what to say. Nike wants him at Duke, UA wants him to skip College so that UA doesn’t have competition for him after his 1 year. This is much more then just Colleges trying to convince him to go to school
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@truehawk93 I read somewhere…maybe posted here…that he said, among other things, he was waiting to see what DG does…some interpreted that it might be to play with DG…I think one of the things…maybe many things…he is considering is that if DG leaves…Trevon would be the man…doesn’t totally make sense given Self’s system, but I could see where a kid could look at us as having a full backcourt if everyone returns.
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I think you interpreted that correctly, he’s most interested in what happens at Duke, then Kansas and Arizona as far as roster movements go.
Duke has told him he can have the keys and I’m sure that both KU & Zona have had similar pitches. The problem for KU & Zona is they currently have PG’s so predictably his answer is going to be "waiting to see what Devonte Graham or a Kobi Simmons does at Arizona.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
I’m sure if everything happens the way he’s talking maybe he decides in April. I wouldn’t hold my breathe for Duval, he’s an expert at what to say. Nike wants him at Duke, UA wants him to skip College so that UA doesn’t have competition for him after his 1 year. This is much more then just Colleges trying to convince him to go to school
How are conversations like this happening? How does this not affect amateur status?
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@truehawk93 said:
think if the kid is all Dook, he would’ve committed already.
Maybe he wants to wait until after the final 4 so he can have the media attention all to himself.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
The problem for KU & Zona is they currently have PG’s so predictably his answer is going to be "waiting to see what Devonte Graham or a Kobi Simmons does at Arizona.
Frank just won national player of the year next to Devonte. I dont see how Devonte’s status affects a point guard. Devonte plays a role like Chalmers did and is better as the secondary ball handler.
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Honestly I don’t know how its happening but it does. Its the hush hush side of recruiting
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I believe its more difficult then that but if you think Duval is not affected by what Graham does that is your opinion to have. The Mason/Graham situation was unique especially because they were close friends and had such great chemistry on the court.
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@BeddieKU23 very true, I hear what your saying. I will say that during his interview at the McDonalds the question was brought up about the whol over sea’s scenario - -he seemed pretty adamant saying NO he was not saying he had things to take care of here that over sea’s was not an option I dunno, but sounded pretty convincing that was not part of the equation. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Yes Duval wants to play in College. He’s also smart enough to deflect the question so that the schools recruiting him don’t start asking questions. Slater of 247 is in the know about this situation and he knows for a fact that UA has tried to convince Duval to skip College and take a deal now. They are scared that if he ends up at Duke (a premier Nike school) that this could affect their future endorsement deal with him. Crazy times!
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@BeddieKU23 Ya I hear ya, You know for me anyways these shoe company getting this involved which in turn has an effect on how a recruitment may turn out. - - I think there has gotten to be so many factors anymore with the recruitments of these guys Seems to many outside factors playing into recruitment anymore - -it’s all about money in one sort or another. - 100% correct Totally Crazy times. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BigBad What you said is so logical…doesn’t mean the kids these days think that way. Even though he and Graham are the only true point guards…kids these days see: Graham, Svi, Newman, Vick and see an already crowded backcourt.
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@nuleafjhawk said:
If they had his jersey hanging up there …tomorrow it would not be soon enough. And somebody needs to get to work on a statue - put him right out there next to Phog Allen with a plaque.
“Welcome to the Mecca of College Basketball. Stay four years and you might have a jersey hanging in the rafters and a statue on the lawn too”.
He should get his jersey in the rafters, get a statue and we should call the playing surface “#BIFM & Son Court”
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Definitely. The top kids have too much behind the scenes around them and it starts at a young age. We have landed top kids in the past where shoe affiliation didn’t matter like Wiggins & Jackson but those kids were just different. They also had parents that were involved and kept a tight ship on things. It’s the families that invite the “other stuff” like Duval and his father that bring on a whole new ballgame when it comes to recruiting. Too many kids have handlers as well and most of them are not involved for the right reasons other then personal gain.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Too many kids have handlers as well and most of them are not involved for the right reasons other then personal gain.
Yeah I read a comment the other day from Slater about Brandon McCoy and I was suddenly a lot more okay with him losing interest in KU…
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Yupp I saw that and felt the same
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Summary for people here that don’t want to go find it: McCoy has a handler that is very involved. Said handler has basically made it clear that McCoy (a very raw offensive player) will be OAD. And no doubt money will be required to secure his services.
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@mayjay I hate to say it, but if that’s the case…DON"T WANT HIM. KU is a team.
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I think DG stays, he’s very close to Newman.
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@kjayhawks didnt his mom say he was going to Italy? He should stay and be a part of a potentially dynamite team.
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@HawkChamp I don’t know what his mom has said. I follow him on Snapchat and he is with Newman all the time.
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@HawkChamp Yes she did, for what it’s worth.
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Will post in here since its not official or anything.
One of Svi’s best friends is saying he’ll be back next year. Who knows how true but that would be a great thing
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@BeddieKU23 I’d think they would at least go check it out and not hire an agent. No harm.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 I’d think they would at least go check it out and not hire an agent. No harm.
The thing about “checking it out” is that if you are told you are ready, you have to go - otherwise they think you (and your college coach) are jobbing the system.
If you have no intention of going pro, you can’t go to the combine just for the experience: they will hold it against you.
“Would you like to go the prom with me?”
“All right”
“Well you know, I was just wondering. Actually I’m out of town that weekend. No hard feelings?” Sure…
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I hope Svi returns. He made a huge leap this last year, and he is still so young. I think we can count on him making another big leap this year, too.
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@ParisHawk If players don’t sign with an agent after declaring for the NBA Draft, they have the opportunity to return to school if they aren’t satisfied with their draft status.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yes of course. What does that have to do with my post?
My point was if you go to the combine you have to be open to going pro. You can’t just go as a tourist. Was that not clear?
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@ParisHawk guess not. Did you read kusports?
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@ParisHawk If you aren’t satisfied with a rating of “likely second round” no one is going to hold it against someone who goes back to school to improve their position. Teams would rather have those guys come back the next year as more skilled players who get “1st round probable” ratings instead of staying in it and being undrafted. That is one reason they set up the combine and changed it last year so there is no limit to how many you can be invited to.
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I think @mayjay post makes sense, don’t you think?
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@kjayhawks said:
I think DG stays, he’s very close to Newman.
I saw Newman and Graham out shopping together. I als so Vick at the same mall. I wonder if they were all just trying to keep their minds off the tourney.
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@mayjay I agree with what your saying , and I am now leaning more to Devonte coming back, earlier I just thought he was gone, really didn’t have anything to base my thoughts on . now those feelings telling more then likely he comes back. I don’t think it has anything to do with being close to Newman , a lot of players can have a close bond with other players, but when it comes to your future you do what’s best for you - - not your friend.
Having said that I will be glad if Devonte comes back , no problem with any of the guys going to the combine and see where their at. -The one thing I feel differently about is I’ve thought this most of the year and I STILL feel this way, – I just really think that Devonte quite possibly has hit his ceiling - -I really do not think he is going to improve his stock that much, he is at where he will probably still be in the draft NEXT year. - - This is not a knock on Devonte I really like him but I just don’t think he will make a 1st round draft - - I just don’t. Now I’ve seen where some people said he was even listed anywhere in the projected draft - - and I’ve seen where he was middle of 2nd round. - -I’m just not seeing a guy going from where he is nowhere to be found on a projected draft , to middle of the 2nd round , to a 1st round draft pick.
I think at the very best Devonte would still be a 2nd round pick somewhere- -but 1st round pick , I’m just not seeing it, that’s why I say I think he has hit his ceiling, and that’s why I’ve said during the year as far as declaring then if that’s what he wanted to do might as well do it now, not getting much higher. Bottom line I hope he does come back, let the marbles roll , see what happens. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
I think @mayjay post makes sense, don’t you think?
Of course. Again, I think some are misreading my original thought.
I said “if you are told you are ready, you have to go- otherwise they think you (and your college coach) are jobbing the system.”
Being told “second round” is not “you are ready”.
And when I said “you have to go”, read the “otherwise”. They don’t “have to go” because those are the rules, but to avoid getting a bad rep.
Let me say it another way: going to the combine is not “testing the waters”; going to the combine is not “checking it out”. Rather, going to the combine is applying for a job as an NBA player.
Don’t apply if you don’t want the job.
How does that not make sense?
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I really want him to come back and continue to become an aggressive player. We saw some pretty good strides in his ability to get to the hoop this past season.
I look at the development of Justin Jackson of UNC and I see a lot of similarities in how Svi can take the next step. Jackson came to College with a lot of hype and a deadly midrange/close the basket game. He put in a ton of work to become a perimeter shooter, a true dual threat player.
Svi came to College known as a shooter and has started to take steps towards becoming a dual threat player. I can only imagine he’d be even better next season.
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@ParisHawk Try Googling “nba combine test the waters”
Your notion that the phrase is not properly descriptive of the combine process seems to have been lost on all these players who are announcing they want to, gasp, “test the waters.” And the articles announcing the combine changes last year all seem to use that phrase for what it allows players not hiring agents to do.
But what do players using the system, or writers who deal with ncaa and nba personnel involved in managing it, know?
I also think there have been many nba players who were second round draft picks who would be shocked to find out that their draft status by no means would suggest that they were “ready” for the careers they enjoyed or are still enjoying.
Bottom line, as expressed in the post by @Crimsonorblue22 to which you have taken such exception, I also hope a few of our players test the waters if the nba invites them to. It will give them valuable information about their games and their propects for pro careers. If they decide to go pro, good for them. If they don’t, it will give them a chance to train and practice with specific goals to close gaps invtheir skills.
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@BShark Well, those guys certainly don’t see it as a rebuilding year!! In the immortal words of Raymond’s dad Frank, Holy Crap!
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Vegas doesn’t see it as a rebuilding year either.
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Vegas- Default Duke/Kentucky as title favorites 364 days away, bound to be right some year
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Makes sense for taking bets. I’m sure there are Duke/UK fans that bet on their team every year.
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@dylans Those are some good odds for Florida. I would consider them at 20-1. They’re consistently making very deep runs, have multiple Final Four’s in their recent history, they don’t lose a lot of talent, and they have a pretty good young coach.
Losing Hill is not even a big deal for Florida because they have Chiozza to fill in who is pretty good himself at PG.
They’re going to be a really good team next year and I hope that’s who we get in the Big 12/SEC challenge since we know it won’t be Kentucky.
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@mayjay One last time, I defend the idea that instead of disagreeing we are not talking about the same thing.
I never said a prospective second round pick was wrong to declare anyway. Anyone who can get a combine invite and afterwards decides to go pro goes with my best wishes.
I merely said that if a player has no intention of going pro then he shouldn’t go to the combine. The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don’t see any reply that addresses this point.
Do you really think the NBA personnel at the combine would be happy to hear that a player was just there for the experience and had no intention of going pro no matter what?
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@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over “testing the waters” because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out–regardless of how many team want them.
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The risk is that he would be highly rated and the refusal to stay in the draft would be held against him and his coach. I don’t see any reply that addresses this point.
I think this is where we disagree. Players go to the combine to see if they ARE highly rated so they can join the draft. If they are highly rated I would think they would go on the draft and not back to school. They would go back to school only if they ARE NOT highly rated…wouldn’t you agree?
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Maybe it depends on what highly rated means. Kids have been projected as 20 to 25 and not drafted until mid-2nd round. Or in the teens but falling into late first/early 2nd
If a kid rates at the mid-twenties, he would get a guaranteed contract if drafted that high. Clearly, “ready.” But if he projects as closer to lottery level the next year if he develops, say, a better driving ability, or improves his 3 pt shot both accuracy and range, he might well decide to wait and try to get a more certain first round draft status, and avoid the risk of falling to second round with no guaranteed contract.
@ParisHawk How “ready” does someone have to be before you think he has no option to go back to school? No one gets promised anything at the combine; at best, they are provided a critique of a range into which they might fall.
I agree with you that anyone projecting in the first half of round one should not opt out of the draft. Beyond that, I think it is an individual decision based on the player’s own risk/reward assessment, plus ego, plus financial need. And I think NBA GMs will respect any decision made.
Maybe our issue stems from part of your scenario that I thought was facetious but perhaps underlies your misgivings. I think no player will go and say, “Hey, just screwing around here–don’t intend to really go pro. So whaddya think?” I think they all declare planning on trying their damnedest to impress if they get invited, and to go pro if they get monster feedback. They all want that Willie Wonka ticket, but some know it isn’t yet very likely yet, so they describe it as testing the waters.
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@mayjay they have to be invited. If everyone read the coach Self article on kusports it explains how he helps the kids thru it.
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@mayjay said:
@ParisHawk Do you think teams that want a guy one year will decide not to take the same guy the next, or a teammate, because of a petty feeling of having been stood up?
In any event, the original dispute was over “testing the waters” because you said no one declaring should see it that way, but instead only declare if they intend to go pro if they are told they are ready. I leave it to you to convince the guys saying that how much they are damaging their future prospects. I think your real dispute here is with the rule change that gives early declarants that chance to back out–regardless of how many team want them.
I don’t dispute the rule change. Players have that new freedom and I don’t want to limit it, but I think like all freedoms it should be exercised reasonably.
The first time after the rule change, Calipari told all his players to declare for the draft. They were indeed “testing the waters”. Selden after his sophomore year said he knew he was coming back so he didn’t declare. I think Selden was wiser and more respectful of the process.
