Thoughts on the Game?
BeddieKU23 last edited by BeddieKU23
First off great to have basketball back. It’s been too long. It’s nice to see Allen Fieldhouse rocking again.
Without being too critical this was by far one of the worst exhibition games Kansas has ever played. I know a few years ago we had some struggles so it’s not surprising. But there was some very alarming habits noticed already.
The lack of rebounding:
I think at one point our "big"s had 4 total rebounds late in the 2nd half. Frank Mason led the team I believe and Lightfoot was 2nd? Little effort was made to rebound last night.
Didn’t exist, we know Self will be on them this week.
Devonte Graham who I thought would be by far our best defender was dogging it last night.
We were noticeably slower then Washburn. Self talked playing fast, we didn’t do much of that.
Hard to be excited about what we saw from anyone in the post against an over-matched, undersized team.
Mason looks improved, this is his team and his smart play + aggressiveness will be key all year long.
Vick can score with the best of them. I commented in the game chat that I think Vick was born and immediately was making baskets. Natural scorer, the rest of his game needs a lot of work though.
Lightfoot was tough and fought for rebounds. Struggled shooting the ball. The 1 three point attempt looked solid although he missed.
Svi plays his role really well, can really shoot it from outside when he has confidence and see’s the ball go in.
Jackson’s aggressiveness in the 2nd half. After the jitters went away he was much better going to the hoop. FT shooting needs work, has to be smarter with the ball as well.
We should see a different product on Sunday, I’m sure practices will see a big change.
HawkInMizery last edited by
The lack of rebounding especially to a smaller weaker team is slightly alarming but I think we’ll be ok. HCBS is going to get in their asses this week about that and it won’t be an issue again I don’t think.
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@Crimsonorblue22 - The Voice was good last night! Hehe
RockChalkinTexas last edited by
Bragg got the quick pull after failing to get a rebound AND hold onto the ball after it came back to him on the same play. And Josh learned 23 seconds into the second half that HCBS holds power over even the freshman phenom. Lucas’ quick fouls can’t happen that fast ever. We need him and his experience in there. Liked Svi’s threes but he did miss some bunnies.
The officiating was absurd in this game. Very little rhythm could be achieved when every 5 seconds there was a stoppage. It was over a 2 hour game for an exhibition. I hope we don’t see that crew again
When’s the next game?
BTW, my pirate link to the game was 100 times better than ESPN3’s stream.
jayballer54 last edited by
I agree with all comments. Last night WAS one of our not so good exhibitions that I can remember for some time. Like has been said when talking to Coach Self in the post game, He said the 2 Starting big’s had 3 rebounds, and that’s unacceptable, where as Frank had 10.
I think the excessive fouls had to do with the slowness that has been mentioned, being out of position, ALTHOUGH also like has been mentioned I think the Officials found something new to play with last night - - a whistle., I mean come on, how you going to get any kind of flow when they are like that? I would be willing to bet you won’t see a lot of those calls during the regular season.
Josh had typical freshman jitters in the 1st half, trying to think to much, to mechanical instead of just playing, which he settled some in the 2nd half
The Ugly - - – 18 – 34 free throw shooting - - -like 24 turnovers against Washburn unacceptable, the excessive fouls, and not doing a better job in the rebounding.
Bottom line - - -Hey it WAS the 1st game, exhibition, that’s why we play these exhibitions right? so the staff can see where the guys are at, and where or what they have to work on? - - Well we have plenty to work on - -but I got a feeling it’s gonna be just fine - -these next couple days not going to be pretty for the players . I think we will see a lot better Sunday. Sure can’t play this way next week against Indiana.
When asked what positives Coach could take away from the game - - His response? - That nobody got hurt. - -We’ll be all right, glad the season is here. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
It was a sloppy game. Other teams will be taking note of what Washburn did in transition. I mean really - there was no urgency in getting back and Washburn, an NAIA team, made them pay. Devonte looked like it was play time, and Carlton+Landon were uncharacteristic also.
I think they thought it would be an easy, no effort blowout. I hope their mindset changes real soon. They are a lot better than they showed last night
mayjay last edited by
@KUSTEVE Must differ by location or wifi hookup. My ESPN3 was perfect, no audio skips, all in HD w/o having to wait for any buffering.
mayjay last edited by mayjay
@jayballer54 I bet the coaches wanted the refs to call it very tight to reinforce what they are trying to teach these kids. Especially the part about “Move your feet on defense, don’t just reach!”, which was violated by KU many times…
Edit: Just read the game chat and saw that a couple people made this point.
stoptheflop last edited by stoptheflop
Yes, this wasn’t our best game; lots of room for improvement. But, what was Mason doing in the game with 2 minutes left to play and a lead of 18+? Coach Self is doing the same thing as last year: leaving Mason on the court after the game has been decided. For Mason’s own sake and the future benefit of the team, Mason’s minutes need to be limited. I know Frank wants to be out there. I know we play much better with Frank in the game. But, please have the coaching discipline to limit Frank’s minutes. We will desperately need Frank at full speed and health in March. This was an exhibition game against Washburn. Where are we if Frank gets injured in a meaningless game? Twelve to fourteen minutes would have been enough for Frank to be ready for Indiana and Duke.
I just looked at the box score and see that Frank logged 32 minutes. The most of any player on either team.
@mayjay I live near Tampa, and it has been horrid for years. My internet speed is ridiculously high, yet ESPN 3 looks like a Keystone Cops film …
The surprising thing is this stuff went on all game with no adjustments. Washburn dominated in transition and on the glass the whole 40 minutes and everybody but Frank seemed fine with it. I agree with other posters about the difference in physical size from practice to last night, but you have to adjust to the game and not just hoping refs are going to change.
@stoptheflop yeah that was unnecessary. He looks like he has the Perry Ellis senior urgency. Hopefully that will be contagious because no one else has it
My honest opinion - we looked terrible. DG was going through the motions, LL did nothing on the boards, Frank looked good after he lollygagged through the first half, CB looked like he has half there, JJ stressed himself out, and was dealing with confidence issues the first half, Vick looked good, although he let his man blow by him on defense numerous times, Kudunka looked promising for the few minutes he wasn’t fouling, Svi’s jumper was nice, although I think him and JJ were having a contest who could have the most turnovers. Other than that, we looked GREAT! LOL. My opinion? Throw it out, and hopefully look better on Sunday.
Kcmatt7 last edited by
Personally, I have several thoughts.
We looked awful. But what did we expect playing our first game ever in a 4 guard rotation? All of these guys except Josh have had it pounded in their heads to play inside out. All of a sudden they are given freedom? They don’t know what to do with it. It reminded me of my dog when I taker her to the park. She runs off a little ways and then freaks out because she gets too far away and can’t see me so she comes running back.
Coleby looks bad. Clearly not over his injury. Buke looked better than I had anticipated. Lightfoot will be good down the road, but right now he just isn’t going to cut it. We essentially have 3 bigs to rotate this year.
Our guards did turn it over a lot. But, they did shoot well. And I am confident our passing will get better. I thought after the first few turnovers in our 4 guard look Bill would scrap it for the rest of the season. But he just let them keep going. It seems like he is actually committed to it. So it will improve. Passing will get even better.
Defense was bad. But again, new style of play is going to take some getting used to. We need to realize we can just switch everything in that lineup for the most part and so we should be able to take risks and have the quickest and best help defense we can have.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
I honestly don’t remember a Washburn exhibition when we come away all giddy with excitement about the forthcoming season. I don’t put too much stock in them at all as a predictor of success or lack thereof this season.
I was joking on the game thread that JJ might need a Red Shirt thus becoming the first OAD to get a red shirt. But Bill let him sit a while in the first half and think about it, and then when he realized how much better than the opposition he was, he got a spring in his step and made a bunch of really easy baskets. They won’t be that easy in two weeks, but at least he knows he can score in a college basketball game.
Udunka was active early on, but he was pretty gassed by games end, a minor concern at this point.
Mason played like Mason, but Graham? Between the KU game on my laptop, the Cubs game on the TV and grading a pile of papers I may have been a little distracted, but I literally don’t remember him making one play last night except missing a three. I assume he did something good.
Agree with observations above. But after 1 game, hard to chalk anything into the “bad habits” category…since we know the coach wont allow any bad habits. He just wont tolerate it, so its really not a question of trend.
As usual, lets see how this team develops by end-Dec. Judge trends then, and their “correction”.
Devonte absolutely stripped the fr-enemy guard at midcourt. Later had a nice 3 (or long 2), and also had the tightend-seam-route assist of the night to Bragg for the dunk. But I agree he picked his moments. If he goes all out vs real competition (ask Buddy H.), I got no problems.
Regarding Frank Mason’s mpg. Maybe Frank wanted to be in the game?.. And we know Self loves his upperclassmen, especially the bulldog, hard-headed variety. We also know Frank desperately wants to play at the next level–> well, Self will surely allow him to pad his stats, in a manner that Sherron really wasnt able to do his senior year, due to the groin strain in late-January of his senior season. Frank Mason is the most reliable and highest % practitioner of all things our mid-major-philosophy requires–> maybe he kept Frank out there to pad his stats and teach by example. Is there any better playing example of Selfian philosophy on the entire roster? (nope).
Side angle: Dont many of the KU players literally work for hire ($$) for Bob Chipman’s summer camps? They may know many of the WashU players personally, and I’m sure there’s respect both ways. NEVER once did I see any chippiness or tempers flared. Hard to beat up on little-brother fellow-Kansas teams…this was not a real game. (It’s not like KSU, when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their coach and fans, and perhaps some players just hate everything KU, then that becomes a real game.)
Final angle: Worried about Indiana and Duke? Why. Doesnt Indiana have to face the #2 ranked team in the nation (KU) with only 1-2 games prior to the mtg? (So they in the same boat).
Duke? 2 star players OUT with injuries, one possibly for months, and the other for at least 3-4 weeks. Sure, I’d like to beat them at 100%, as I dont want an asterisk’d-W. But, Duke will only be the #1 team on paper for sure when they face us. Paper devil. They ALSO will be early on the learning curve for the season. (Same boat, but notably worsened by injury situation).
That being said, I look fwd to facing Duke’s tried and proven “HS&B” playstyle. A proven/despised rat-brew of “Hack&Slap &Bitch”, a physically dirty playstyle, deftly counterbalanced by DerSchnauz bitching about the other team doing the same thing to his team, to get a foul. So I look fwd to mtg Duke people, to which I can very honestly tell them they usually field very “balanced” squads, giving all opposition great competition (hurdles to overcome). Tsk. Tsk. Ratface!
justanotherfan last edited by
It’s hard for KU to get pumped up to play Washburn, but easy for Washburn to get pumped up to play KU.
For Washburn players, this is their chance to be on the big stage at AFH. They are going to go all out to measure themselves against a team like KU. On the other hand, KU really doesn’t have much to gain against Washburn. You can’t learn much from playing a team that, even playing as well as Washburn did last night, simply cannot beat you.
I think @ralster makes a great point that there’s mutual respect between the Washburn players and the KU players from working camps and playing with/ against each other in summer pickup and camp games. The KU guys have no real desire to embarrass the Washburn guys. Not saying they took it easy, just that they didn’t go for the throat last night.
This game and the next exhibition are tune up games. Chances to run the offense against a live defense that is actually playing hard to see if guys are in shape and understand the basic offensive principles and the basic defensive schemes. Once the Indiana game rolls around, then it gets a lot more intense, but I think that game will have the type of intensity we are wanting.
I was using my cell phone as a hot spot and ESPN3 started in low res and a few minutes late rit got much better although it occasionally would lose sound or freeze for a few seconds. No complaints from me since i was able to get around the blackout in my area, although is cost me a chunk of Cell data, but with T-Mobile, you can stash unused high speed data and since most of the time I use my phone via Wi-Fi, I have a decent size war chest accumulated that should see me through the first 6 games that have been blacked out in my area.
I think some of those questionable fouls inside were due to the rule ‘tweaks’ to make the post play less physical. Every year it seems like there’s a new emphasis on officiating that gets thrown to the curb by league play.
It sounds like there’s a few ways to get the games that are on TW Sports. We had success using Betternet spoofer with watch espn app on the computer. There are no ads and the playback was overall good. Next time I’m going to add a cable to the tv to use as a monitor. Desperate times call for…
Mason was 1 assist away from triple double; I can see why he would want to get one since it not something that happens often. I believe Aldrich and Whitey were the last two players with triple doubles and both did it with blocks rather than assists.
kjayhawks last edited by kjayhawks
I agree with whta most of you are saying, my issue beyond anything else is why in F*** is Mason playing 32 minutes in this game, he needs to average less than his 36 from LY in my opinion.
betterfireE last edited by
Interesting about the new rules, we should probably have a separate post about them, but here is a link with a video explaining the rule changes. Some of these look like great changes, but I’m not sure if the post rules will help us or hurt us: http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketballs-5-biggest-rule-changes-this-season-things-to-know/
good discussion. I think we will see better Sunday, we better hope we see some improvement Sunday.
Things like rebounding and defense, those are not quick fixes. Those area’s of concern we saw are going to be lingering issues throughout non-conference play. I think the KU guys will rise up to play Indiana & Duke, Self will demand they do. Practices should be good leading up to next week.
stoptheflop last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo But, even a triple double wouldn’t have been an official record. Maybe just an asterick. I just see Coach Self and staff leaving Frank in longer than needed and due to his all-out style of play, placing him at risk in a decided and of no consequence game.
Yeah we gotta keep Mason fresh throughout the season. If they keep riding him like that his athleticism is bound to decline, and we’ll hear after the tournament about some “secret injury” the coaches weren’t telling us about…
The season has not even started and Coach Self is already being second guessed. SMH.
I would think Coach Self knows more than we do and has a hell of a lot more information to decide when and how long he plays any of the players, don’t you?
The team has 7 new players and he needs to figure out who will make the main rotation and actual game conditions are much better than practice, wouldn’t you agree? No question that Mason is and will be the engine that runs this team and Coach Self needs to know who are the players that mesh better with him under the different schemes, particularly the 4 guard line up, right? What better time to figure this out than during a non-consequential game designed precisely for that…experiment.
I personally will relax, enjoy the ride and let Coach do what he does better than anyone else…WIN!
stoptheflop last edited by
Second guessing is what we do here. I consider it commenting on the team I follow the closest. Watching Frank drive the lane and wind up on his back amongst the photographers is like watching my child play sports. I cringe until it appears everything is alright.
Surely you recall Self commenting last year that he played Mason too long in games and that he was banged up by the tournament. Like pitch counts in baseball, Mason should have a minute count-especially in meaningless games. Wasn’t Mason still in the game when Tyler was playing against Washburn? 32 minutes against Washburn. I don’t think Coach Self is paying attention to the actual minutes during each game. It would be pretty easy to assign an assistant to count the minutes if it’s really a concern like Coach Self said after several games last year.