just my take
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OK, we have had this discussion before BUT - - - here we are AGAIN approaching the fall signing period in Basketball and things for the fall period not looking good. Ya I know we all have heard before - - -Well these kids a lot are waiting to see who is coming back and who is returning and such before they sign. Well sounds good. BUT my counter point to that is - - If that is truly the case then WHY are these same quote - -unquote players going ahead and committing to other schools? - - I’m not necessarily talking about just OAD’S
Just seems to me that we are starting to settle into a trend. For about the last 3 yrs now, and as I have said before and STILL will stick by, feel like that there are times we are just not closing the deal, and that falls on some of our recruiters. When your surposedly leading for a particular player or seem to be and you’ve been all over him for an extended time and then BAM he ends up committing elsewhere? - - -WHAT HAPPENED? - -Someone is not finishing. You have got to stay on these kids for real, I’ve just got this twisting gut feeling that some of our recruiters when they feel or think we have got a guy pretty well wrapped up - -they back off, periods of non contact with that recruit.
I’m gonna use Ayton as a prime example, we was the ONLY school recruiting him for the longest time, ya I know there were qualifying issues or that’s what we were told anyways, we had been in on him early, early, early, then finally a couple of others get in the mix, and we know the outcome. - - Question is seeing we were the perceived leader on him for the longest time- - - Did we back off of him, dead time - -OR did we stay on top of it and put our foot on his throat - -close it out?
Just becoming a trend with this - -every fall. Ya,Ya, Ya, I know I’ve heard it before oh well we ended up just fine, look who we got in the spring - -been there - -done that BUT I’m tellin ya one of these years and this could very well be the year where we go through yet another non eventful signing period and then spring rolls around and we are left scrambling thinking well we have got this stud that we’ve been waiting on and BAM nope - -then we really have to scramble - - lesser guys,- - -de-commits - -transfers not a good picture, with us having so many scholi’s available or possibly - -I think we have just got to really turn up the heat, get really aggressive, apply more pressure on these guys. Maybe some of our guys are losing their recruiting edge. Something is not right, because you lay everything on the table and there isn’t any single college with the obvious exception of maybe Duke, Kentucky that has squat over our School. - - Tradition- - -Exposure- - -Development for the N.B.A 15 players on opening day rosters, - -2nd winningest program in the history of the game - - The atmosphere, - -Great education opportunity - - just not getting it. - - Where we going wrong? A lot and I mean A lot of these kids just starving for the attention of the media. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 some want to stay home. There’s also always room at the oad schools. Some don’t want to wait to play, example Alabama and Miami. Others just want to get thru a year, miss. State, Lsu. on the way to NBA. Well grounded kids that want to work, enjoy college, have a parent that’s smart enough to figure that KU is the best choice, believe in the phog, come here. I would also include play w/other players that believe strongly in a team concept! No choice, is there?
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If you want some more the “sky is falling material” Carte’Are Gordon a top 20 2018 PF considered to have been a KU lock will announce for Saint Louis today at 2:30. Can’t make this up
Correction he already committed. lol the check cleared for Travis Ford!
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@Crimsonorblue22 All I’m saying this is becoming a trend and unless we can get this turned around one of these years we are going to be screwed - - I am 1000000% convinced that someone on this staff is not closing the deal. I realize that we have took on another challenge in the past few years like 4-5 yrs now of being in the race for the bigger fish. BUT I was just as fine with the 3-4 yr player. To many of these kids are media starved attention getting types - -thriving ,starving for the media- -playing to the media - -playing a guessing game
I’m to the point where ok, let’s go back to the solid 3-4 yr player, we have done fine in the past with such type players. A kid that wants to commit, and really considers it a privelage an honor to have an offer from a school such as ours, puts there whole heart and soul into the school NOT one that is there just because he has to be.
If you have player " A - -big time stud - -top 10 player we are recruiting but wants to drag this dam process out play inny minny minny mo makes you wait it out till spring & then in the end run ends up committing to another school If you have that situation but yet have a really good but yet 3-4 yr player who wants to come and is willing to commit in the fall, then I’m at a point I say screw the drama take the other kid, we have been fine in the past, we would do fine in the present, - - the future.
If Coach Self is as good of a Coach as we all think - -and know he is he will STILL be able to develop these type of kids and compete quite nicely. How many OAD’S or other super studs has Wisconsin had? - but yet at least for the last few years they have done fine - -Xavier? Gonzaga? – And Gonzaga is not loaded with OAD’S so before it starts up squelch that. There is a lot of other quality programs that do fine with 3-4 yr players because of development of the system.
I’ just really at a point where this drama OA’D not all but a lot of them are just media, media, media, - -like little soap opera’s everybody and their brother holds press conferences at a table with hats anymore that’s just bullshit. - - did Wilt hold a press Conference when he turned pro? - - Did JO-Jo Hell no. tired of their games.
So it’s either someone not closing out finishing up OR they just no matter how hard you do try to close are not ready to give up the media attention, so if I have ONE scholi left and it comes down to it then it’s who ever wants to commit first PERIOD OAD or not. I’m tellin you one of these years and not to far in the future, like the upcoming when we could be losing a lot - -we could land up flat on our faces and be screwed. Have to settle for transfers, juco, de-commit - how that working for ya? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 that’s just crazy!
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More mind-boggling is a Top-10 recruit thinking Travis Ford is going to further your career. He’s a guard coach, nothing else
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@Crimsonorblue22 ya your right it IS that’s what I’ve been saying thanks - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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In an alternate world, where one assumes there are no shoe contracts with schools and coaches, the power teams of the summer games sponsored by the big shoe brands have built up no apparent brand lean in players, where there are no agents, and where there are just drivers of proximity to home, coaching skill, school basketball program quality, and a head coaches’ abilities to sell and close, RECRUITING OUTCOMES OFTEN DON’T MAKE MUCH SENSE IMHO.
But in this world, where there are shoe contracts with schools and coaches, where power teams of the summer game sponsored by the big shoe brands do appear to build up some brand lean in players, and where there are reputedly not only agents but agent runners mentioned by coaches and sports media influencing things, RECRUITING OUTCOMES DON’T APPEAR SO SENSELESS IMHO.
I wonder when some investigative journalist will write the next book about recruiting that is quickly marginalized?
There seem to be fewer and fewer of them.
I wonder if that means if basketball is so squeaky clean now that there is nothing to write about?
Or if…
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@jayballer54 Ayton could care less about college, which is why he chose to stay at home. We can’t overcome not caring where you go. He might not even unpack his bags. I am not sad about him not cakewalking his year here.
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@BeddieKU23 I love others can’t accept another person’s view or points of interest, like you wanna portray me as being the forever pessimist lol, tell you what you keep on thinking your way and I’ll keep thinking mine. If you only want to hear a rosy peachy colored out look, callin others crazy, knock yourself out. Bottom line is, it is what it is. Keep gambling with a stacked deck and then get back to me. All I’m doing and stating is that there IS A TREND going on with our recruiting and how one of these days it can jump up and bite us in the ass ,Some one best be taking a different approach to things- -cause this isn’t working. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Gordon is a Saint Louis kid. There was a time when SLU got lots of local kids to stay in town, which is what made that program as strong as it was. For city programs like that (SLU, DePaul, Houston, St. John’s, Memphis, etc.) they are dependent on local talent staying close to home.
For Gordon, the only non-midwest schools he was even considering were UNLV and USC. The rest of his list was Cincinnati, Illinois, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Notre Dame, Oklahoma State, Purdue and Texas. That’s pretty clearly a kid interested in staying closer to home. No Kentucky. No UNC or Duke. Not even a Michigan State or Ohio State.
Not sure KU could have pried him away from Mizzou even had he decided not to go to SLU.
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Well you totally took that out of context, I was joking so as you said believe what you want. If anything I was feeding into what you were saying. KU just lost a Top 18 recruit to Saint Louis!
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Yeah reading his comments he was high on staying home.
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I am not sure what your point is. KU follows a lot of players but actively pursues maybe a dozen each class; there is really no room or resources to recruit more players. Let’s face it, much like most other elite programs, only the better, say top 50, players will get a decent chance to play unless you are a go-getter, like Mari who worked his butt of and got playing time. If you are not in the top 50 and do not have the confidence or desire to come and earn playing time, you are not going to get it at KU. BTW, you better be ready to play defense. This is the primary reason why we lose some of the so called prospects
Many OADs are just biding their time to get to the NBA and have no desire to even attend classes and some programs will allow them to do this but I am afraid KU will not . I remember hearing that Michael Beasley did not even bother to attend classes the second semester at KSU and was seen driving a Hummer around Manhattan, and as soon as the Tournament was over, he was gone…this is just not happening at KU under Coach Self. As you can see, this limit the talent available even more so. The squid, on the other hand, has made it clear that his job is to prepare players for the NBA and to get them there as soon as possible, you can see why this makes UK a more desirable destination for many players.
Last, I do not believe for a minute that KU will not continue to do well regardless of who signs. Coach Self has had to deal with complete turnover several times and he has manged to continue winning with classes ranging from average to outstanding. After 12 straight Conference titles, I don’t know why you would even worry about this. Yes, someday the streak will end but he will still finish in the top 3 in the conference. Lay back, relax and enjoy watching Coach Self do what he does best…WIN!
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We got Frank after we missed on the big names. We got Devonte after we missed on the big names. We got Landen after we …that’s right…missed. He’s got a full two years more with Vick, two with Udoka, at least one with an experienced Newman (makes methink of Seinfield), one or two with Svi, one or two more with Bragg, at least two or more with Lightfoot, two with Coleby, along with Marcus Garrett. We don’t have to sign every 5 star to be real good next year. I figure the plan is to get a top guard, and a top big to go along with our experience. If we don’t. then he’ll find the next Frank or Devonte out there. That’s why he’s won the conference 12 straight years. I don’t want to have a situation where we’re starting 3 or 4 freshmen like 2013. I don’t think Bill does, either. That’s why he doesn’t go around promising minutes like Calipari.
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My advice is don’t fret or worry over who’s coming. Since I’ve been at KU, we’ve made the dance every year except 89. We always get the players. If we’re in the dance anything can happen, especially for a program like ours. I try to shy away from criticizing a kid who is now younger than my own children for choosing to go to college somewhere other than KU. Heck, even if they want to go to Kentucky, then great, happy for the kid! @BeddieKU23 points out there’s other reasons for a kid to choose someplace like St. Louis.
And this isn’t something we don’t talk about often, but, someday this team will not hear its’ name called in March. We’ve been extremely fortunate to have players and coaches without major scandal, injuries, health problems which led to Dukes missing the dance, to bad coaching hires, see UNC, Daugherty, to Kentucky missing because they just recruited kids who didn’t have the swag to get them to the dance after winning the NC the year before.
It’s gonna happen to KU some year. Sure doesn’t look like this year, but we just don’t know what lies ahead. We’ve got to be ready!
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@jayballer54 said:
did Wilt hold a press Conference when he turned pro?
He didn’t have to hold one. He was the first nationally recruited player with over 200 schools trying to get him. It was major news everywhere when he decided to go to KU.
Lew Alcindor did have a press conference a few years later. 80 reporters showed up.
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@KUSTEVE So now we want to settle for continued conference championships? let’s see which would you prefer Conference championships - -OR NCAA Titles? NCAA titles are a lot more difficult to win then conference championships. The point is IF we keep getting or losing out on the better players then ya, you can continue to milk those conference championships - -I myself am ready for more NCAA titles. Nobody say I want to be Calipari U. - But there is some other reason we are losing out other then staying closer to home. Hell if that’s the case screw the recruitment - -why doesn’t the player come right out and say no need to recruit I’m staying close to home, do us all a favor why don’t they do that? - -I’ll tell ya why they love the attention. So what ya say let’s just say screw the upper crust and get the middle tier 3-4 yr player heard that around here a lot that way we can win 20 conference championships in a row and call it good
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@jayballer54 Your distress is created by your outlook, not by my expectations. I fully expect us to win the national championship this year. If I am wrong, then I could be rightly accused of being a pollyanna content with conference championships. Until then, we’re on a mission from God…bigger than Elvis…bigger than the Beatles…we ARE the KU JAYHAWKS, and we will win the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, BABY!
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@jayballer54 Gordon told ESPN.com that his desire to inspire the best players in and around St. Louis to “stay home” played a big role in his decision.
“I’m hoping this starts a trend,” he said.
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just my opinion here, but I don’t think we should ever apologize or devalue the conference championships. Conference championships are championships. It’s that simple.
Regional Championships are fantastic and National Championships are special.
I want KU to win those just like every other fan.
But statistically, teams that win Conference are more likely to win Regional and National Championships. So that’s reason enough to care for Conference Titles.
We’re overdue.
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Who said anyone is settling for Conference Championships? Conference Championships are nothing but a stepping stone to the NCAA Title and a sign of a consistently superior program. You have to admit that winning a Conference puts you in a better position (better seed) to contend for the title, right? Keep in mind that only one team has won more conference titles in a row than KU, UCLA which did it in 3 different conferences and with 3 different coaches, unlike KU that is doing it in just one conference and with just one coach. It is indeed an amazing accomplishment that hopefully KU will own all by itself and a record that might never be broken.
Do you really think that #7 Seed UConn in 2014 was the best team or had the better players? or even Villanova last year? Look at Kentucky and all its top recruiting classes; it has won just 1 Title in this Century, same as KU.
Relax, enjoy the ride and watch Coach Self do his magic…like he does every year.
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@jayballer54 your overreaction in your original post is almost laughable.
We land plenty of recruits. Sure we lost out on a couple of guys. Sucks. But when you want to go somewhere that you can play for 4 years instead of sit the bench for 2 or 3, makes sense.
When someone stays home to play where their family can go to every home game easily, I have nothing but respect for that.
And, honestly, we are due for a down year at some point. Bill has kept the ball from dropping by being able to pull rabbits out of hats and find diamonds in a pile of crap.
Quit reading into the crystal ball so much. It’s a bunch of guys guessing that have talked to these players like twice ever and they think they have a hunch. Crystal ball is a cool tool to see a huge change in trends.That is usually when it means something. But it means nothing in the whole scheme of things.
I expect us to get some commits after the season starts and we see where Bragg, Devonte and Svi will be next season.
If you don’t like the drama of it, don’t pay attention to it. Recruiting 18 year old kids is ALWAYS going to be a hard thing to do. Whether you recruit 3 or 4 year guys or not. We are looking at a Florida decommit that was ranked in the 50s. Graham and Mason both left for other schools. You just can’t force kids to come to your school. We want players that WANT to play at a place where they appreciate the tradition and will continue to be great ambassadors for the program down the road. The chips will fall where they may, our coaches are working hard each and every day to get players to come here and to make players that are here better. Relax a little bit jayballer.
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@BeddieKU23 plenty of time to see Ford struggle all season and decomit. Even if he doesn’t, at least he gave us plenty of time to get in on other bigs.
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Do you think SLU will now have a designated flopper? Maybe this what did it for Gordon…LOL.
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@Kcmatt7 well buddy wish I could say I was in the minority - - maybe in here could be, but multitude of other KU sites that tend to agree with me. I’d be glad to say I was in the minority but ummmm, NO, no I’m not. Now if you wanna take in here where you want to wear the Crimson and Blue shades then GREAT you do that, BUT like you said so quite nicely one of these days Coach gonna reach for the rabbit and pull out a stick of dynomite. and it’s going to be ALOT MORE then a pile of crap as you say.
I guess as long as people here post things that don’t want to rock the boat or cause waves it’s good, BUT GOD for bid you see things different then people seem to think like was said to me " the sky is falling" thing is no matter how you want to twist it around, sugar coat all you want bottom line is - -If we can’t start doing better closing things out on perceived leaders to commit for us - -umm ya THAT down year is coming & coming soon.- - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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We can cross off Sexton if this quote is correct.
“I will base my decision off of the best fit for me to come in and get stronger, faster and develop as an all-around player and person,” he told MADEHoops. “I want to be able to make mistakes without looking over my shoulder to see if I’m going to get taken out the game. I want to play my game on the court. I also would like for my family to be able to go to the games and support me.”
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The first part, he could do no better then working with Hudy.
The 2nd part, not worrying about coming out of the game, typical today’s response from these kids. I’m sure Avery said you’ll play 40 minutes, we don’t have a backup PG. Playing in front of family, well Bama lot closer then Lawrence for his folks…
A lot of wasted recruiting efforts to be runner-ups…
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@BeddieKU23 Agree, I’m afraid he is out. Maybe somehow we can pull Trae other then that I think we are out of options - - very unlikely Duvall comes, Can Garrett or is he a point? - - We Shall see, guess I need to go to the Alabama site an see whz up. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 This site is full of smart and realistic basketball fans. Fans that don’t overreact when we don’t land a recruit. History is in my favor, being the level-headed fan that I am. That whole 27 straight NCAA appearances (soon to be 28 and the longest streak ever) along with that whole 12 straight titles thing we have going on has me pretty sure that we will land plenty of recruits every year.
You aren’t rocking the boat, I’m just telling you that you are looking at false information (CB) that is 100% based on speculation and treating it like gospel.
You know who else hasn’t landed a Top 25 prospect so far this year??? Duke or Kentucky.
In fact, only 5 teams HAVE. Arizona, WASHINGTON, WESTERN KENTUCKY, AUBURN, and UNC.
Recruiting is going fine.
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Well Kentucky and Duke are about to see a lot of their targets start making decisions. 12 recruits could pick either program between now and the spring.
Kentucky is in on 9 of the remaining unsigned. They will sign PJ Washington #16, Nick Richards #11. Petty just canceled his UK visit so it looks likely he’ll go to Bama with Sexton. Trae Young, Bamba, Diallo & Vanderbilt could all end up in Lexington as well.
Duke has Knox & Trent in the bag. I think they will get Carter as well. Coleman is a Duke/Texas battle. Bamba is a toss up battle between UK/Duke.
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@BeddieKU23 They also have room on their roster and guaranteed playing time coming available.
We have exactly 3 guys that are guarantees to leave. And to back those guys up next season? 3 potential 1st round NBA picks. Talk about recruiting problems…
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@BeddieKU23 Just read comments from Rupp’s rafters. Was Talking about Trae’s trip to Lexington. He gave it the perfect 10. - - Kind of funny though comments from fans saying things like v- - -Well he also gave KU a 10 - - then another saying that Trae had given all his recruiting visits a 10 - - -Another sayin well if he gave us a 10 then why not commit lol. Then another saying well maybe he needed to re-evaluate his recruiting process pretty funny stuff. Is Garrett they we got the commit from a point guard? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@KUSTEVE @bskeet @Kcmatt7 Great posts. Let’s face it, the Dance is a crapshoot. No second or third chance if you have an off nite or the opponent nails 3’s from every spot on the court. No hoping if you lose somebody else can help you out by winning their game. Conf championship in the psuedo Big 12 usually gets you a 1 seed in the Dance. None of us want to settle for a conf championship, but we realize the importance of it. But I guess for some the doom and gloom of not signing a recruit is what makes the world go round. Me, I trust in HCBS and only wish for kids that want to come here and are willing to fight, scratch and claw for pt. And willing to come back another year if they don’t get it the first year.
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@brooksmd Sounds Good - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I am afraid you have not presented a good case and your are definitely in the minority when it comes to sites with members with a decent basketball knowledge; The basketball IQ in this forum is considerably higher than that in most other forums where all the do is fight. Look at the “old” site for example, some posts are downright embarrassing.
I am not sure why you think KU has a problem with recruiting. Having the #1 class guarantees you nothing. Look at Kentucky with all its #1 ranked classes since Calipari got there…in this century, they have as many National titles as KU, 1. You seem to forget that in the last 4 classes, KU has gotten the #1 pick twice with Wiggins and Jackson and several other highly ranked players…that left 350 other programs wishing they were KU. Coach Self seems to do best, not with the OADs, but with players in the 10-30 range and even lower. Frankly, you are imagining a problem where there is none and you expect posters to agree with you; good luck with that.
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Yes, Garrett is a PG and he’s big for the position. “Combo Guard” would probably be a more appropriate title for him. He could potentially guard positions 1-3 in college because of his size. Exciting prospect, could be underrated. If he continues to develop his shooting, he’s got a similar development arc as Devonte.
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@JayHawkFanToo Exactly. Look at what HCBS has done with less than stellar teams. We’ve all seen experts claim that a past year was the year that there would be a new look at the top of the psuedo-Big 12 standings. And yet when the dust settled that big silly looking bird as some call it is still standing proud atop the list of also rans.
@wissoxfan83 I’m not going back to look when the last time a KU bb team didn’t go to the dance that was attributed to the team itself and not because of a coaching screwup ala Larry Brown. If not for that Roy would’ve taken the team to the dance in '89 with an 11-3 conf/30-5 overall record. I doubt seriously KU will not get the call in my lifetime unless it’s a similar situation. Unlike the Sleazy coached Kensucky team that couldn’t make it past the 1st round of the NIT.
And BTW, can somebody point me in the direction to where I can get me a pair of them crimson/blue glasses. I mean if I’m looking at things that way I may as well be in style and wear the glasses.
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@brooksmd I have some!!
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@brooksmd Well, it’s gonna happen some day. What if Self bolts for the NBA? We should be able to hire someone competent, right? But UNC said the same thing I’m sure and they missed the dance because Doherty didn’t have any coaching chops. BTW, I think KU didn’t make the dance in the early 80’s. Not positive, I wasn’t around KU then.
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@wissoxfan83
KU missed the dance in '82 and '83 before missing in '89., so the streak would have had 6 more games.
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@JayHawkFanToo Ummm, exactly where in the hell did you see I was asking for a Nu 1 Class? - - -A # 2 class. A # 3 class? love how you read in between lines lol- -and ONCE AGAIN UMMM NO fraid not in a minority but thanks anyways lmao. Ya we got Jackson, that has proved nothing yet, Wiggins win us a National Title? - - -NOPE. Sp exactly where has that benefited us? Just read on another site from posters how they thought it was time for different recruiters, let me slow this down - c-we are NOT CLOSIG OUT ON THESE KIDS - - you can’t let that sink through then I’m sorry. This year AYTON MISS, GAK MISS, SEXTON GONNA MISS, YOUNG GONNA MISS. Chances not looking good For BROWN MISS. the kid that committed to UCLA MISS. Personally I could give a rat’s ass if you agree with me or not. - -your entitled to that just like I am mine we agree to disa agree I’m not changing your mind, your not changing mind, but you have a great day - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@brooksmd GOT a great idea if this site has a store - -I’m SURE you can find them here ROFLMMFAO. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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KIND of nice being able to get everybody riled by p - - - - - - in their Wheaties got to love it . such sensitive little tootsie’s lol pretty sweet, starting see how other people across the nation look at us and understand lol it’s great mercy, mercy, mercy but ummmm anyways ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 quit being a dick. I mean dude, you’re calling everyone else sensitive “tootsies” when you’re the one crying over an 18 year olds decision.
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Happens when you mix whiskey with your meds
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Again, what is exactly your point? You complain that we don’t get high ranked players and when I show you how top players alone don’t really make a difference and KU actually has gotten it share of high ranked players, now you change your tune…again.
KU has some of the better recruiters in college basketball and anyone that say otherwise does not know jack about college basketball. Many posters have tried to explain to you that with some recruits it does not make a difference who is the recruiter, they will go where they want to go anyways. Do you really think that KU’s “recruiters” twirl their thumbs and just don’t bother to follow up and close? If you believe this, then you probably need to hang around more on the forums you cited and less here; obviously listening to other well reasoned ex[explanations is not your forte and you are most likely wasting your time …and ours. Nothing personal but this is my last word on the subject.
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@JayHawkFanToo Well since he seems to be inclined with posters on other sites that it’s time to get new recruiters I guess we need to fire the entire coaching staff. Obviously HCBS isn’t getting the job done. I try my best to ignore and not comment on his posts but some times I just can’t help myself. Keep hoping he’ll go away and hang out with the doom and gloom posters on other sites.
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@Ralph LMAO man then don’t mix whiskey and pills - -AND UMMM ROCK CHALK ALL DAY BABY
