Eligibility
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@Kip_McSmithers I think that is where u will find coach Beaty too, in his own garage!
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“The Tea Leaves say they are in an appeal. Why else would Self have to be in meetings all day on a game-day. This has nothing to do with Bill Self other than him being the coach of Diallo.”
Good chance we are in appeals because Self was asked that question and couldn’t answer. If we weren’t in an appeal, he would have said so because he knows fans would feel better about everything.
My guess (pure guess) is that we are in the appeal process now. Not because it has taken this long, but from that reaction. So I’ve got my bet down on a Riverboat pot with the master player himself.
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@jayballer54 Respectfully, what does speaking four languages have to do with meeting the core requirements for eligibility?
It’s nice the kid can speak four languages. I’m sure that will help him in life, I guess. But does that mean that he took his core mathematics, science, English ,etc. classes from bona fide instructors taught at the correct level of instruction, with appropriate text books and curriculum?
Remember, the minute you compromise the rules, then the rules will begin to collapse. There are some, like Jay Bilas, that want that to occur. On one hand, they say they love college basketball. On the other hand, they take ever effort to destroy it.
Cheick Diallo and our personal desires to have him declared eligible for one Kansas basketball season is not important enough to compromise the structure of the game, in the larger scope of maintaining the game we love, which is college basketball.
When we start worrying about whether a player is paid his supposed fair market value, or when we want to water down core standards for participation, such an outcome will eventually destroy the game.
If folks want professional basketball, there is the NBA. I don’t.
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One could liken the Diallo case to Cam Newtons. Now it’s not Apples to Apples but Cam’s defense was he didn’t know his dad was shopping him. So if Diallo is ruled ineligible are we to assume that CD knew his Algebra classes weren’t up to par?
We were all 14 and 15 at one time. And I know some 14-15 year olds are the exception, like jfan, but can we say for certain that Diallo knew which core classes were legit when he was a frosh and soph in school? For most of us, again we know jfan you are one of the exceptions, we wouldn’t have the slightest clue. And we aren’t talking about some bogus underwater basket weaving class or paper class that we all know is bogus. This was a core class offered by his school. Did I know which teachers were easier? Well yes. But did I know if my curriculum was NCAA worthy? No.
And jfan, you asked for examples of ineptness. I gave some. Do you think they handled those cases correctly??
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“Remember, the minute you compromise the rules, then the rules will begin to collapse. There are some, like Jay Bilas, that want that to occur. On one hand, they say they love college basketball. On the other hand, they take ever effort to destroy it.”
Right on the money!
“We were all 14 and 15 at one time. And I know some 14-15 year olds are the exception, like jfan, but can we say for certain that Diallo knew which core classes were legit when he was a frosh and soph in school?”
Cheick may have been 14 or 15 when he took an inferior Algebra class or didn’t take one at all… but he was 18 or so when he finished HS and had time to correct this while in HS.
Yes… he was (and is) young, but the rules for entering college or playing D1 ball can’t be compromised. Should we let anyone into med school, without the grades and classes, etc., because they are young and didn’t know better?
We wouldn’t be having this discussion if it was for Cheick to enter med school. I think we all lower our academic standards for the minimum bar into playing D1 basketball. I’m not pointing fingers because I’m as guilty as anyone in here!
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@HighEliteMajor I respect your opinion but I definitely do not think that Jay Bilas is trying to destroy college basketball in the least bit. I think his intent is to improve it. The way I look at is that rules are great when they serve a purpose. The purpose for the NCAA’s rules should be to eliminate players that exploit systems to skip through high school (I.e. basketball factory) and disallow players that violate their armature status. For Diallo, most indications are that there is a hangup on an entry level type of course that isn’t NCAA approved. So for example, he could have taken a simple high school algebra course, done well, understood it, but there was something missing from the curriculum that the NCAA says its not a valid course. Now in this same hypothetical example, he could be taking college calculus right now, doing well and passing the course, but the NCAA may deny him eligibility to play NCAA sports because of this high school algebra course.
I look at the NCAA’s set of rules like a fish net. When this net has holes so big where players like Skal (who’s situation is so far in left field) get through and players like Diallo get hung up, the net is no longer serves its intended purpose and something needs to change.
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If Diallo were entering Med school that means he already has a college degree or 100 plus college hours so no we wouldn’t be talking about this.
Is there evidence that CD knew his Algebra classes were bogus prior to his final semester at OSNA?
Is there evidence that KU lowered the admission standards for CD?
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Diallo eligible or not, if Mick and Bragg stay healthy we are in very good shape, inside 15 feet. Hunter looks hungry and Carlton possesses talent to win Big 12 Frosh of Year honors. A month ago I viewed this squad as Elite 8 w/o Diallo, Final 4 with him. Now I tend to envision a title run with or without him. Huge factor: team health, esp. current top 6 players. (Clearance by NCAA might go up in smoke if Big 12 takes a firmer stance.)
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Okay… made a bad example.
How about entry level into Harvard?
“Is there evidence that CD knew his Algebra classes were bogus prior to his final semester at OSNA?”
No… but do we let rules slide because he didn’t know? I’m not saying everything is fair in life, but then we open a big bag of bogile if exceptions are made. I’m sure exceptions are made often and we don’t know it. But why would one person receive an exception and another not? And what kind of message do we send to kids… goof up and don’t know about it, and you won’t pay the price.
“Is there evidence that KU lowered the admission standards for CD?”
Better not be! Or we will be in the same boat as UNC… maybe get our fingers slapped with losing a scholarship for a year or so (angry sarcasm at the UNC situation).
I want Cheick legal to play as soon as possible. But if he doesn’t pass the bar that everyone else has to pass… it will be tough luck for us. Hey, come on… we aren’t Duke! We can’t go to the magic bag of dirty tricks to pull a few strings to get this done! (more angry sarcasm pointed at Duke)
I think a lot of this should go past the NCAA and directly to our federal judicial system. These “handlers” are nothing more than pimps, and should be convicted like them. Pure exploitation.
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@RockkChalkk Thanks – think of the academics as a threshold. You are right. He could have taken the high school algebra course, done well, only to find out that it was not taught at the right level. And he would be out of luck. Some kids have to go to prep school to fix things. The alternative is to permit exceptions. I would respectfully suggest that the academic rules are not a fish net (I know you referred to the “rules” in total). But when we mix academic issues with other eligibility issues, like a Skal situation or Selby, it makes folks angry.
Regarding Bilas, he has advocated changing multiple aspects of the on-court game. He has cited the NBA example and the International example. He mocks those that love CBB as it is, calling them “Amish”, including directly to me – of which I take no offense. I’ve been called worse, and actually that is somewhat of a compliment.
His point is to change the game in the name of progress. But he wants to change the game to suit his preference of the way basketball should be played. That is largely, by his own words, the NBA and international examples.
That’s one aspect.
The next aspect is that nearly daily he describes the NCAA as “unfair”, “embarrassing”, a “joke”, “horrible”, or whatever because of its rules. Those rules are promulgated and given force by the member universities. Bilas feels any transfer restrictions are unreasonable, in that I have never seen him suggest one to be reasonable – I’ve only seen him express outrage anytime a university simple won’t roll over on a transfer, regardless of circumstances.
The final aspect is that he advocates for a free market for players free of NCAA restrictions. One where players market their skills to each university, the university could bid, and the player could sign with whomever he chooses.
To me, that – in total – is destroying college basketball as we know it.
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Here is a hypothetical thought: Bill Self hopes and contests that if Diallo is eventually cleared by the NCAA, the clearance reads differently from that of Ben Mac and Jamari, both of whom were, as I recall, axed by the league.
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The brightest minds need to be involved together (meeting of the minds) in order for rules to change in college basketball. That is the intent of these committees. And, to a large part, they at least weigh concepts in deeper levels of consciousness over Jay Bilas. He is just a carnival barker, pitching his own agenda. He has a respectable knowledge of the game, but still limited…and also extremely biased… and it shows on some issues while other in-game situations he can be okay on. That is what really rubs me about him. He buys stature by being decent in front of the mic on some games, then turns around and spends his stature in areas like college rules, where he just thinks he knows what he is talking about. A big part of it is his desire to erase all contact from basketball… that relates to his own personal bias because he couldn’t cut it in the league because he had zero physicality. Very weak player. So… bring the game down to his old playing standard. Physical contact should always be a major part of basketball… but it should be regulated to a level where the gifted will overcome being touched while playing.
WARNING: Be prepared for a horrible year of basketball officiating! They are opening the door for major, major controversies! Since they are broadening the scope of what a foul is, that just opens up the potential for further discrepancies… that means unfair calls (both real and perceived) that will determine the outcome of games. And they wanted to speed up the game… yeah… right.
At least they have added in a penalty for guys flopping. But… I’m sure that will create controversy, too. I remember WUG and one of our guys gets a call for just having a slight jerk back in his neck. Hardly a big time flop.
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Although different in nature my comparison of the Cam Newton scandal in which Cam’s father and another gentleman tried to get Miss St to pay up for Cam’s commitment all unbeknownst to Cam left him suspended for only one day. And it wasn’t a game day. They ruled since Cam had no knowledge he should not be punished. The difference here, at the time all of this came to light Cam and Auburn were fattening the wallets of the NCAA, the SEC, ESPN, so on… Can’t punish stars when they’re lining your pockets!! Much like the tOSU tats scandal.
So yes there is a precedent regarding punishment for a student athlete when they weren’t aware of the wrongdoing. But like I said above. Cam was leading the Auburn Tigers to the NC and the NCAA doesn’t want to jeopardize the product they have on the shelf. Because who the hell wants to watch Cam Newtons back up play for an SEC title??
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I hear what you are saying.
I guess the question is… is there any way that Cheick COULD have known he was taking a bogus Algebra class? I think if there was NO WAY he could know this then he belongs more in the Cam comparison. If he couldn’t know, then he is pure victim.
If that be, then they could let him play but just make him take a no-credit algebra class to bring him up to snuff.
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@drgnslayr bogus might be the wrong word, maybe lower level?
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There has to be more too it than that. There must be a lot of issues with Diallo’s classes.
I’ve seen something posted somewhere else that Wilson (signed with Pitt) was asked for evidence & information about his homework for the classes he took. That would indicate to me that the NCAA is trying to discredit or prove the curriculum is not up to standard, maybe even the school entirely or at least certain classes (maybe even core classes) that they have took at Our Savior.
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Glad I always kept my homework for up to five years after completing the class… Some of the requests are a bit out there
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This is a complex subject and maybe sometimes we don’t know or just forget some details.
My understanding is, Cheick could be a “full qualifier” or a “partial qualifier”: full means you did OK in high school and you did OK on the ACT or SAT entrance exams. “Partial” means you did OK on one or the other.
BenMac and Jamari were “partial qualifiers”. At that point the decision to let them play or not was left to the Big 12. It was Big 12 rules that made them sit out a year.
Does Jay Bilas want to dissolve the Big 12 too?
I’m assuming the question is whether Cheick is “full” or “partial”. If he is partial,
- he is “free” to attend KU,
- “free” to keep his scholarship
- and “free” to practice with the team.
- He is also “free” to keep his full four years of eligibility.
He is not “free” to use his first year of eligility this season. That’s all.
This isn’t a “freedom” issue. It’s an “instant gratification” issue.
On the flip side, it’s pretty daring on the part of the NCAA to judge US and foreign high school transcripts in a country where public education is theoretically run by the states. What other national organization tries to do that?
One thing that does frustrate me, and I’m sure all of us, is this is taking so long. At this point I’ll bet it’s KU taking the NCAA to overtime.
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I met Jay Bilas at the Final Four this year. I came away from our conversation liking him quite a bit.
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“Glad I always kept my homework for up to five years after completing the class… Some of the requests are a bit out there”
Yeah… I was told to keep my old homework for 10 years with all my IRS filings…
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Perfect;y stated; your entire post is right on the money. I have been wandering what exactly speaking 4 languages has to do with the core requirements; Bilas argument is silly.
The Cam Newtons situation can be likened to the Labissiere case but they are not at all the same as the Diallo case. The Diallo case involves well defined rules and regulations that are well publicized and apply to every player wanting to play NCAA sponsored sports in college, The Newton/Labissiere cases involve a handful of cases where the rules are not nearly as well defined (since they are so few cases), are difficult to prove one way or another and there is a lot of room left for subjective interpretation. Textbook definition of apples and oranges wouldn’t you agree?
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Is it possible that a highly recruited athlete who is already projected to make the lottery-- but who is required to stay out of the draft one year and serve his time at a school – might decide that the best way to spend time is on the bench and not on the floor where there’s 1) a risk of injury and 2) a risk of losing value?
Is it possible that there’s very little motivation for some recruits to be eligible? The best scenario is sit with a good team and practice… get a free year of college… and enjoy the college experience while serving the mandatory 1 year between HS and NBA.
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@bskeet I sure hope not.
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From an ESPN article:
“The NCAA agreed with Auburn’s self-report from Nov. 30, 2010, that Cecil Newton and the owner of a scouting service, Kenny Rogers, shopped Cam Newton’s services to Mississippi State out of junior college, but that there was no evidence the player or Auburn knew about it.”
NCAA agreed with Auburn’s self-report that Cecil did shop Cam, just not to Auburn and with Cam’s knowledge.
Neither Auburn or Cam knew his dad was shopping him.
Neither Kansas nor Cheick knew his class or classes weren’t up to standards.
Both Auburn and Cam knew it would be against rules to give and take money for promise of a commitment.
Both Kansas and Cheick know there are NCAA admission standards.
I know one case is about pay for play and the other is about academics but both student athletes were/are in the dark on the issues that surrounded them. And that’s the similarity. So why do you think that Cheick should be punished for things unknown to him and out of his control while the NCAA chose not to punish Cam??
If, and honestly at this point I think it’s only a matter of when, Cheick is ruled completely ineligible or as a partial qualifier (because that’s the NCAA scapegoat in all of this) I’ll have no doubts the only true difference in the two cases is the wallets of the people that call the shots ($EC, E$PN, Nik€) and Cheick/Kansas/Self ain’t greasing 'em.
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Seeing as the college semester is 2/3rds of the way over why don’t they just look at his friggin current grades to see if he’s a worthy college student? Unless he’s taking Advanced Game Boy, Principals of Fast Food, Science of Worldstar Hiphop Fights, and Grammar of Instagram, it seems like this ought to be a good way to prove his merits as a one year rent a player.
