• Nic is an all conference player in a non power conference. He is a mature player. He is a winner that doesn’t always look so good, but always seems to be on the winner at the playground. He is a dwarf that forces every one on a team to say there is no opponent too tall to guard, because Nic guards guy 4-6 inches taller than him all the time.

    Devonte plays older than his age, but he is a soph and has still not been a starter… He is normal height: 6-2. Despite the baby face, he plays tough. He can match Nic shooting and passing, but can he defend and attack with as much uncanny edginess and timing? Can he take other players out of their comfort zones, like Nic can? Can he own the x-axis game in and game out? Can he make teammates look in the mirror and say, “If he can, I can!” That is the essence of what Devonte is replacing–even assuming he fully recovers his pop after injury.

    Nic was such a strong personality he could step into a team and let Frank stay the PG leader–his usual role, yet also become the psychological cornerstone of the team–the alpha with the street smart swag to let Frank, and Wayne and even Hunter be who they were.

    I believe it was Nic and his 'tude that made our guys quit looking to the bench after misses and mistakes, like whipped currs. They played like confident players, mistakes and all.

    This is what Devonte has to replace.

    Or maybe it’s what he can now become.

    Like the old war movies in which a tough sergeant that has molded a bunch of boys into men is killed and is succeeded by one of the least likely guys. You know. The Sands of Iwo Jima that every one makes fun of, but that everyone that has ever played on a champion knows is the real model of transference that has to happen for great things to happen. The leader must eventually be absorbed by the lead. The leader so desperately needed must become unnecessary.

    Hell yes Devonte and the KU team can replace their diminuitive Sergeant Stryker!

    Now each knows what each must become on his own.

    This is the real hero myth.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    Devonte will step right in provided he’s healthy. He’s taller so he’s not the liability that Moore was sometimes when matched up against taller guards.

    Devonte is more a true point which is the perfect compliment to Frank. His defense will be good, he can shoot and get into the lane. He might not have the attitude that Moore has but I imagine Nic didn’t have that as a Soph. either. Who knows we may see him become a vocal leader now that he’s got a year under his belt.

  • I think (if he’s healthy) Devonte will step right in to the hole left by Nic. He may be younger, but has more height and talent. Yes… he is younger, but he has also had almost a complete year more of Self ball than Nic had. He is also known more by his teammates.

    He is not only an adequate replacement for Nic, he is only beginning to touch his real potential, so we get several more years of his upside being developed in Lawrence.

    Nic was great because he filled the emergency hole left by Devonte. Hopefully, Devonte will be healthy and can now replace the hole left by Nic.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    Yes he can! And Devonte made the trip and got to witness Nic play and interact both on and off the court.

    Hopefully HCBS had dialog w Devonte about this very subject. Or maybe that is Snacks’ role?

  • @VailHawk et al,

    I kind of doubt Devonte alone can replace Nic.

    It will take all of the team taking on some of Nic’s qualities.

    Nic is a special human being in the same way Russ Rob was.

    Self once said that RussRob didn’t always look that good, but the longer you were around him the more you noticed he tended to be on the winning side of the scrimmage, or something to that effect.

    There are just some guys that have this peculiar kind of genius that is not always appreciated, or highly compensated in our society, because it is not easily isolated and measured. But there are always one or two of them on a championship team.

    Until one works with any kind of genius, it is hard to know what a great mind is capable of. It is hard even to recognize real genius. But once you have been around one, you realize how much more you are capable of, and that a significant part of genius is simply hard work. It is actually liberating to see real genius be stymied, shift gears, scale problems up and scale them down in search of a fitting solution. There is much of genius that “ordinary” persons can emulate and so become much, much more productive in their work. Genius is not worth near as much in one off solutions, as it is in rubbing off on a group to up its collective effectiveness.

    Nic has some team dynamic genius.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Graham has to scrimmage against Mason in practice every day. If you have to guard Mason on a regular basis then I would put my money on Graham being better. Who better to go head to head with on a daily basis than Mason?

  • Yes. He can and he will. The starting back court of Mason and Graham will be one of the best in the country due to two guys who can handle the ball with ease, can shoot well enough to keep their defender honest and above all have grit and will to win. I can’t wait to see the lineup of Mason/Graham/Selden on the perimeter with Perry/Diallo in the post. That is a Final 4 starting 5.

  • Imagine scrimmages with

    Mason vs Graham

    Svi vs Green

    Selden vs Vick

    Ellsi vs Bragg

    Mickelson vs Diallo

    Use any order you want but it would be a battle non the less during practice each and every day!

  • Might have to switch Vick and Svi?

  • @Statmachine

    Count me among the skeptical minority.

    I still think this team in a best case scenario will wind up like UW the last two seasons.

    They don’t have enough OAD and 5 star talent to finish against a stack with a good coach.

    They could upset a Johnny Jones, or Cuonzo, stack, because Jones and Cuonzo are untested in the finals and .560 coaches.

    They could upset a completely green stack, because of their experience.

    But if they run into a stack with a nice mix of OADs and TADs, it will be very tough for them to compete effectively.

    The stacks will have footers plural.

    Diallo has never had to stop footers twice in three days AND rebound AND score AND hedge defend with a wide lane, which he will have to do, if this team were to go all the way.

    Going all the way with this team just seems wildly optimistic at this point.

    We are talking about a team with a total of one projected OAD center (Diallo), a 5 star senior (Ellis), a 4-star Frosh (Bragg), and a ThreeAD wing (Selden). Among these, Diallo and Selden and Ellis seem likely draft choices, but none of them are every game MUAs, except maybe for Selden. Among the rest of the team there appears not a single draft choice next season and only Vick and Bragg appear likely draft choices out in the future.

    There will probably be 6-8 teams with sharply more talent than KU next season. Probably 4 of them will be stacks.

    KU has huge question marks around the healing of Graham and Greene.

    KU’s great WUG team loses its only proven all-conference level player–Nic Moore.

    I am glad you are juiced.

    And I am not dismissing your optimism out of hand, because you and others were bullish on the team’s chances before the WUGs, when I was also pessimistic, and you all were vindictated.

    But in the age of stacks, and biased seeding, and biased whistling, which we are still in, it takes a lot of talent to getter done.

    But damn I hope you are right.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Name the 4 stacks? There are not 4 teams with stacks of 5 star talent in the NCAA.

  • Huge congrats to KU players and coaches: GOLD!

    Realistic expectations for KU 2015-16:

    1. another Big 12 championship (plan B is a tie)
    2. a 30 win season (plan B is 29 wins, including the tourneys)
    3. an Final Four (plan B is Elite Eight)

    As we discussed at the end of last season, it all depends on injuries/eligibilities, match ups and the maturation/development of a few players. But I really like the depth and the moxy, the mix of newbies and the vets, the evolution of our style and our HCBS.

    I like this quote: italicised textitalicised text* I believe it was Nic and his 'tude that made our guys quit looking to the bench after misses and mistakes, like whipped currs. They played like confident players, mistakes and all.

    We will be an elite defensive team, with toughness and depth right out of the gate. We will defend, get the 50-50 balls and rebound with more energy and determination than the last two years.

    Will the offense loosen up? We will be afraid to shoot the three early in the shot clock? Will we look to the bench for approval / approbation / permission…will we play a little less system offense, a little less high-lo pass and pass and pass some more? Will we run and gun and dribble-drive to shoot or pass? Let 'em play a little freer on O this year coach!

    We have got enough shooters and play makers and my prediction is that Coach will encourage a more aggressive offensive “make a play” individual style, and three point shooting than over the past two years.

    This will certainly make a few board rats happy!


  • From a pure basketball skills perspective, Devonte can and will replace Nic. From a leadership performance? Not at this time; he does not have nearly the experience Nic has, but in time, I am hopeful Devonte will develop into a true leader

  • KU BB leaders:

    Devonte, Frank and Wayne, all strong and capable of leading by example and leading by body language and words.

    Leadership is not an issue this year. Devonte is a leader already (he was chosen by a neutral third party during military training last year as the leader of the group…as a freshman!

    Here is the most intriguing question: can we play tough, tight and very physical D but loose, free-flowing O at the same time? How does our main man Coach Self and his staff teach the players to be totally committed to the team concept but not to overpass and overthink on O?

  • @jaybate-1.0 Ellis was All Conference wasn’t he?

  • @jaybate-1.0 Solid!

  • @Statmachine

    Stacking appears an evolving approach to achieve feasible target benefits of asymmetric talent distribution, if my hypothesis were to approximate reality accurately.


    LSU UK UNC Duke Cal UA MSU

    Notice we are not just talking 5 star talent for Perry was a five star and he is going 4 seasons without major injury as a driver. We are talking about “projected” OAD/TAD talent.

    KU has only two players that were “projected” as OAD/TAD players: Diallo and Selden. Injuries derailed Selden into a 3AD, but healed he now seems ready to fulfill his OAD/TAD projection. But this count is not about fulfillment of projection. It’s about projected OAD/TADs.

    Hypothesis: There appears a move away from three long stacks of 8-9 OAD/TADs to 6 or 8 short stacks of greater than 3 OAD/TADs that appears geared to put two short stacks in each tournament region, perhaps as a less conspicuous, more sustainable, and more effective means of dominating all four brackets.

    Three apparent long stacks last season–UK, Duke and UA–and an apparent favorable whistle netted only two of four slots in the FF; that’s only a 50/50 probability of a title without the refs and with a lot of uncomfortable appearances and top talent sitting on benches. Very heavy handed.

    6 to 8 short stacks seems more an odds maker’s approach, doesn’t it?

    The ideal would be 2 short stacks in each power five conference feeding into 2-3 short stacks in each tournament region.

    The short stack approach hinges on channeling more talent away from the challenger brand and spreading talent a little more thinly to get more coverage of the top and bottom of the bracket; i.e., the 1 and 2 seeds of each bracket.

    The hypothetical object would be to rely less on refs to shape outcomes, which could be an embarrassing and sometimes hard to conceal corruption of the process that could discourage betting over time.

    Let probability and the seeding structure do the heavy lifting.

    The asymmetric whistle should be used sparingly.

    But it’s all hypothetical, of course.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    Since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are now consider to be racists can calling players a “stack,” as in pancakes, also be considered racist?

    I am just kidding, of course…although many wacko liberals might actually take offense with the term…just sayin’

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    An interesting question for which, alas, I have no pithy, insightful answer.

    But as I am always able to strike new phrases, and in fact enjoy doing so, if someone wishes me to quit using stacking on grounds it disrespects someone’s race, color, creed, etc., I will of course oblige them.

    I have never felt it a burden to call any persons struggling to escape oppression by what ever names and modifiers they prefer. Anything to help another human being get free always rubs me the right way. If it helps them get beyond their predicaments inflicted on them by society’s less virtuous aspects, and it costs me nothing but changing a word, or turn of phrase, I would feel like a really uncivilized alias were I not to oblige.

    Rock Chalk!

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    P.S.: I can’t recall where I heard this, but I find the sentiment increasingly prescient: “Instead of Wacko-Liberals, substitute ’ Wacko-Conservatives and Wacko-Liberals Carefully Funded by the Same Private Oligarchy Advocating Deindustrialization of America and De-institutiing of American Civil Liberties Using as Justification Whatever Crises Real or Contrived Are Available at any Given Moment Followed Eventually by a Coup d’Gras of Massive Currency Devaluation and Theft of America’s Publicly Owned Resources and Infrastructures’” Its a little wordy, but some how captures things memorably despite itself. 🙂

  • jaybate I would debate you about this topic but I am in a foul mood and would come off looking like an ass. Marital Bliss is all I got to say about that!

  • @jaybate-1.0 To some degree, I think one could easily argue that Svi and Bragg should be considered TAD players. That would put KU at 4.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Kentucky isnt a footer stack this season. Wisconsin lost their best big man. UNC is going to be uber talented and experienced but not a footer on that team. Duke? I dont think so either, although they will be tough again. LSU should challenge UK for the SEC crown with their class.
    What we do know is that the trio of Lucas, Mickelson and Ellis were able to beat two teams with plural footers. Plural 7+ footers at that. So any team that has a footer this year, should be old hat to KU by then. They can handle it. They have proven that they can handle a grueling 8 games in 10 days and wont give in even while running on fumes.
    I say bring it. Im sure KU says bring it. They can and will beat teams with footers again next season.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I consider myself very socially liberal, yet open minded enough to ask why is a PBnJ considered racist? Dont all kids like PBnJ? Its not racist at all!! What it is though is un American! Who bashes PBnJ?

  • @Lulufulu Some dumb B in Portland that’s superintendent of a schools claims it’s racist because not all cultures eat bread and therefore being forced to eat PB&J on bread at a publicly funded school is considered white privilege. It’s just beyond ridiculous what’s considered racist now.

    There’s probably somebody out there who considers it racist of me to eat fried chicken or watermelon because I’m white ignoring that I’ve lived in the south basically my entire life except for while I attended KU.



    Sorry for shouting. I get excited about Devonte this year.

  • @JayHawkFanToo As a Liberal, even I find the PB&J comments made by that Principal quite moronic, and suspect most other liberals would shake their heads in disbelief too. And I won’t take offense to your “wacko liberals” comments because 1. I get your humor, 2. you are a Jayhawk brother,and 3. free speech is paramount to this site and our country. However, “extremism” exists among Liberals and Conservatives, and they can be quite scary to those who fall more “centralist” in their politics and practices. That said, your link to Alex Jones’ Infowars makes me shake my head in pity because this guy is the King of Conspiracies (most unsupported by facts,) and is quite the “wacko conservative” that many other conservatives find just as appalling. Just sayin’.

    Rock Chalk!

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Politically, I’m an independent. Can’t really see eye-to-eye with either Reps or Dems.

    I’m not black and I’m not white. On a census form I’m considered “other.” I grew up facing some racism. I call it racism because it involved name calling and sometimes getting picked on. But I noticed other kids were also facing similar antics and they were white. So… guess I’ll never know if I “suffered” because of my ethnicity. When kids got hateful towards me, I beat the crap out of them! After that, they figured it was better to be my friend!

    I know I’m not the only non-white person who is sick and tired of the race card being pulled out on everything. Attacking peanut butter and jelly with a race card makes me consider the source as racists. Overplaying the race card, in my books, makes you a racist. Someone trying to chisel their own gain off of the real issue of race.

    I’m glad I’m not white. Because white people can’t challenge anything around race without being called racists. I can call out anyone on racial topics without getting called racist. It is truly unfair today.

    Most people can only see issues from one side… their side. Things get quickly stirred because of that. When I say “most people” I mean people of all colors. Often today we are seeing white people angry because they simply can’t express anything about color or race without the fear of being tagged “racist.” That anger is sometimes showing itself now and that angers non-white people because "hey, we are the ones being held down, so why are you pissed off?’ It just continues to stir the pot on both sides. And it is all because people refuse to take off their blinders and open their minds to people of a different color, whether it be black, white, tan…

    We may end up going back in time to the 60s and 70s… back to race riots and huge tensions and struggle. And why? Race relations have improved drastically from back then to now. But it isn’t perfect nor will ever be. But the problem is people closing their minds. It is just as bad on the democrat side as it is the republican side. Liberal or conservative. Seems that many of my friends totally break the stereotypes laid down in media.

    Funny (actually not) how today every idea has to be tagged as liberal or conservative. Why? For example, why is medical/social funding to our troops returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan… why is that liberal or conservative? I’m so sick of both reps and dems I can’t stand it. Guess that is why I’m an independent.

    Ideas are good or bad or something in between…

  • Banned

    I don’t care what anybody says. I have many fond memories of eating PB&J sandwiches, and I still enjoy them today. Sometimes I grill them. If you’re offended then so be it, and get over it.

    That would be like telling me I can’t have fries with my cheeseburger. Not going to happen.

    Political correctness can only go so far, before a man or women says enough is enough.

    Let me try to put this in a basketball prospective. Whether it’s the Rebel flag, Fried chicken, Grilling over and open flame (oh yea barbequing is deemed a black thing and racist if white people do it), or eating a PB&J sandwich. They are just symbols, intents and really nobody cares. If they did the top talented Black kids would never step foot on the Kentucky Wildcats campus. As the Wildcats were one of the most racist Colleges in the history of the game. Yet we don’t see that do we?

    I rest my case.

  • Anyone see what’s happening in Greece? Hear about the Chinese stock market taking a bath? Now…that has my full attention. Other than KU basketball, that is. They’re trying to distract us, and get us to fight with each other over ridiculous issues …while our economic systems are the verge of complete collapse. Our national debt is so astronomically high, the fed office that releases that info hasn’t changed the debt clock in 4 MONTHS… and everyone is discussing Brucie Jenner and "racism. " Isn’t the first method of overthrowing a country to destroy its economic system? Gee, wonder what kind of despot will grab power in Greece when their financial systems are in ruins. I’m afraid we’re fixing to see things and times we have never seen in our lifetime.

    Ok, that was depressing. You guys started it. Lets talk who you think will start: I’m thinking Bulldog, Devonte, Wayne, Perry, Diallo ( by conference ).

  • Banned


    Yep, It’s called the grape fruit method. A ploy used by the government to distract the masses from paying attention to what’s really going on. I bet nobody knows our government just signed a treaty with Iran and yet they have 4 Americans hostages ???

    I concur with your lineup but I think Svi can be a wild card. Everything I’ve been reading says the kid is coming to play.

  • @KUSTEVE Agreed, and during the Non Conf…I think we see Mason,Devonte, Selden, Ellis aaannnnd! Big Mick! the Big Hunt! He starts until Diallo can handle it but still will get his minutes.

  • @Lulufulu

    My post had a link and it has been all over social media.

  • @hawkmoon2020 @drgnslayr

    I used to consider myself a solid Republican/conservative way back when, but over the years I have become more fiscally conservative and socially moderate.,although to the younger generation I am still an old fashion prude.

    While in the overall balance I am more conservative when it comes to parties I have grown disenchanted with both which I consider not too different and now I am beginning to lean Libertarian, particularly in view of the massive intrusion of the Federal Government in our private lives, a process that has increase dramatically in the last few years.

    Because of the work I do and access to information not readily available to the average person, I am frankly floored by how much the government intrudes in our lives and privacy is non-existent. If the citizens of this country knew how much information the government collects on all of us and how much control it has, I believe we would have a second Tea Party. What we have learned from Snowden is only the tip of the iceberg. If you want your digital information private, you need to keep it in a computer not connected to the outside world; once you connect to the internet and even when you don’t send the data out, you can be sure that sooner or later it will be compromised.

  • While discussing politically incorrect food, anyone that has or knows children that have tried the new school lunch know what an abysmal failure its has been. Kids now refuse to eat the food and the majority of it ends up in the trash; my own grand kids now bring their lunch to school instead of getting what is offered by the school cafeteria. Many School District are dropping out of the program and risk losing federal aid because participation has plummeted, waste has increased and more importantly, disadvantaged student for whom the school lunch was the main meal of the day stopped eating food that no one likes.

    I am personally curious as to why Michelle Obama has the authority to do this since she holds no government position that would giver the authority to do it and she was not elected to any public office either. If you think this was bad, get ready folks, it gets worse. Apparently Mrs. Obama now believes she has the authority to decide what our fighting men can or cannot eat and now the US Navy is under the dietary whims of the first lady…you really can’t make this stuff up… 😞

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I grew up as a fiscal conservative, and not much has changed there. I am socially moderate.

    I became disenchanted with my Republican party during Reagan. He spent us into horrific record debt to build military. Because of his popularity, even though he brushed off fiscal conservatives, he was able to entice more social conservatives into the party. That was the beginning to the end for me and what was my party.

    BTW: fiscal conservatism doesn’t mean NOT spending money for needed programs or slashing funds or attempting to not pay for things on a government level. Fiscal conservatism is about spending money wisely, with prudence.

  • @JayHawkFanToo said:

    you really can’t make this stuff up…

    Are you kidding? Of course you can make this stuff up:

  • @DanR good to know!

  • @DanR

    While Michelle Obama was not “officially” responsible for the new diet, the directive to the Navy came from the White House.according to many sources, and I don’t believe the president, a known smoker, is necessarily into health eating, so guess who started the whole thing. The first lady has no authority over the school lunch program but there is absolutely zero doubt that she is the one behind that program implementation, right?

    Snopes is very good at debunking the simpler stories, but they depend uniquely in “available/official” information and of course…Google; they do not necessarily look farther than that and they have been proven wrong on many occasions. I have looked up Snopes in the past as well as many other sites that claim to debunk urban legends and I personally seldom depend on just one site. When in doubt Google it and look at different sources and form your own opinion Not big deal either way, we can all draw our own conclusions and I respect yours all the same; just because we have different “opinions” does not mean that either is right…or wrong, just different, right?

  • @hawkmoon2020 My question has always been…who is watching Snopes? Are they the next “Politifact” ( a democrat front group pretending to be an “unbiased” truth detector ). No answer is required - just curious… ;).

  • @JayHawkFanToo Totally agree that one should seek multiple sources for information in order to determine the real facts, quotes, circumstances or context. I certainly try to. Especially in this day and age of “media,” where there can be a lot of misinformation and out right lies on the internet . . . like this one: “The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy.” -Abraham Lincoln, 1864 LOL

    And yes, sometimes we can draw different conclusion given the same facts, so it’s all good. I have no problem agreeing to disagree, and am always open to info that may debunk what I thought I knew.

  • @hawkmoon2020

    …and on that, we agree. 🙂

  • @hawkmoon2020 “You can’t put anything on the internet that isn’t true.”

  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said: Some dumb B in Portland…

    Really? Dumb B? Perhaps you should get out of the south a little more.

    Also, read the original article again and try to find two brain cells to rub together to understand the point she was making. (hint: it’s not about the pb&j)

  • I sure am glad that we stuck to the topic on this board! CAN DEVONTE REPLACE NIC? Can we all move the stupid bickering about PBJ somewhere else? Maybe you can find a comment section on a Jiffy web site and talk all day about creamy or nutty?

  • @Statmachine well, to keep it on topic, it’s like this.

    Nic Moore grew up making a kick ass peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and Devonte Graham comes from some place where they don’t eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. He grew up making breakfast burritos. Bill Self has a choice to make about leadership… should he judge Devonte Graham’s leadership abilities by having him lead the team in peanut butter sandwich making or… (this will blow your mind!!!) find another way to judge his leadership skills based on what he knows? Keep in mind that this is an exercise in leadership (or writing capability in the original case), not actual peanut butter sandwich making.

    What’s really great about this assignment if you’re a teacher is… wait for it… both Nic and Devonte have a unique opportunity to learn about leadership by contributing their own life experiences and talents. Everyone wins.

    Except overly-sensitive people who got their fee fees hurt, thinking it’s about sandwiches. And neanderthals who refer to a woman as a “dumb B”.

    The end. See you in a few months.

  • @DanR When you try to please everyone, you please no one and that’s what that principal is trying to do. If I move to another country, it is a realistic expectation that I adapt to that culture and learn their ways, including learning styles, but it’s apparently not okay to have the same expectations of those who move here?

  • Ladies! You’re both pretty!

    Now to the real issue, I have a tough time buying into Graham will be great this year. I believe he will be solid, but to expect anything more than a Sophomore still learning to lead and become more consistent might get disappointed.

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