Oh how I hate Kansas State.
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@kjayhawks said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Valid points on the initial investigation hurting recruiting but after winning the title in 2022 and being able to pay players with NIL, I don’t think it Is valid at this point. To me we went to hard after the portal guys and other than Zeke none of them have produced. Shak, Diggy, Rylen and AJ haven’t panned out IMO I’d rather spent some money on a highschooler or picked differently in the portal.
It wasn’t until the summer of 2023 that the NCAA case was resolved. Hunter was the only high dollar NIL transfer during that time and we all know he came to KU because KU was the highest bidder for him. Transfers that cared about winning more were likely still leery of the NCAA hammer coming down on KU so this past transfer class was the first without the NCAA investigation influencing potential transfers and the 2025 class is the first high school class without the investigation influencing it.
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@wissox said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wow thanks, do you just have all this in your mind? I didn’t ask my question that long ago and you produced an article!
I know some of the dates, but had to check 247 to double check who all was in which class. Not really any deep research.
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Watching dudes fly by AJ Storr today was a joy. I heard this guy was an athlete!
That of course left Hunter to blissfully watch the ball float in the air and forget to play defense of any kind. What an embarrassment of effort today.
Zeke really makes my head spin at times. For one, he simply could not get a decent shot off today. The sheep lovers made sure of that. Shouldn’t that mean somebody else (Hunter) should be open??? OH, and Zeke is NOT a point guard.
Miserable feeling losing to that team. aaargh.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
@kjayhawks said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Valid points on the initial investigation hurting recruiting but after winning the title in 2022 and being able to pay players with NIL, I don’t think it Is valid at this point. To me we went to hard after the portal guys and other than Zeke none of them have produced. Shak, Diggy, Rylen and AJ haven’t panned out IMO I’d rather spent some money on a highschooler or picked differently in the portal.
It wasn’t until the summer of 2023 that the NCAA case was resolved. Hunter was the only high dollar NIL transfer during that time and we all know he came to KU because KU was the highest bidder for him. Transfers that cared about winning more were likely still leery of the NCAA hammer coming down on KU so this past transfer class was the first without the NCAA investigation influencing potential transfers and the 2025 class is the first high school class without the investigation influencing it.
Which means Self took a big swing and a miss, Self was thinking about building this team towards the end of last year, which I thought was a good thing but it turned out quite the opposite.
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Anyone else just looking forward to next season at this point? Baring a Danny and Miracles type of run next month we are just pissing in the wind at this point.
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Speaking of Tiller, does anyone know whether Tiller practices with team already? I don’t see any improvement watching the bigs play. I’m afraid BS is preparing Tiller for next season, instead. LOL… High-low v22.0.
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@jay4ever said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Speaking of Tiller, does anyone know whether Tiller practices with team already? I don’t see any improvement watching the bigs play. I’m afraid BS is preparing Tiller for next season, instead. LOL… High-low v22.0.
From a few weeks ago:
KU coach Bill Self said on Monday on his “Hawk Talk” radio show that Tiller has only been working in individual drills so far, but he’s just a few days away now from getting checked out by physicians and having a chance to become a full member of KU’s scout team.
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I would expect minimal impact from Tiller year 1. Kid has missed a lot of time
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@kjayhawks said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Anyone else just looking forward to next season at this point? Baring a Danny and Miracles type of run next month we are just pissing in the wind at this point.
This I agree with. I’m looking forward to a new look at PG next season. I do think Juan has always been a liability. I don’t really think a Bill Self team can win a Natty without someone dynamic at PG. The 2022 run Remy really got us out of the 1st round, and then obviously the Natty game he saved us.
Mason. Graham. Dotson. Collins. Tyshawn. All of the best Bill Self teams had a PG putting up like 15ppg and at the end of the game were the type of guy who could just take his man off the dribble and get a bucket.
That is what we need from that spot with this coach. It is part of why I’m not worried about the future. When Juan is gone we can get back to looking for a PG that can really fill up the bucket.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
@kjayhawks said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Anyone else just looking forward to next season at this point? Baring a Danny and Miracles type of run next month we are just pissing in the wind at this point.
This I agree with. I’m looking forward to a new look at PG next season. I do think Juan has always been a liability. I don’t really think a Bill Self team can win a Natty without someone dynamic at PG. The 2022 run Remy really got us out of the 1st round, and then obviously the Natty game he saved us.
Mason. Graham. Dotson. Collins. Tyshawn. All of the best Bill Self teams had a PG putting up like 15ppg and at the end of the game were the type of guy who could just take his man off the dribble and get a bucket.
That is what we need from that spot with this coach. It is part of why I’m not worried about the future. When Juan is gone we can get back to looking for a PG that can really fill up the bucket.
At the end of the day, none of those PG’s won a title as the starting PG at KU though. Sherron was a back up to Robinson. The formula for winning a title at PG for Self seems to be a pass first, defensive oriented starter with a scorer coming off the bench.
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Found some pretty interesting conversation off the KU podcast yesterday after this debacle. Side show ( could be wrong ) is the name , and before some say here that these guys are idiots and know nothing, maybe you need to listen to them before you bsrk to loud they are just as if not more knowledgeable about some of thus as you are. They are pretty pissed but brought up some really valid points. They are and these are just some :
They fully believe Bill doesn’t have this team , This team has no chemistry, this team has no leadership They were saying that when this tok place that anybody in h Basketball industry that knows anything knew that the AJ Storr transfer was not going to work That this with Storr was a complete failure from Coach Self on down
Last two years Bill has completely whiffed in the porta Aj Storr is a total COMPLETE WHIFF , – Griffen is a Complete whiff- – -Timberlake is a complete whiff.
They were sayig about people who were trying Hell Storr a lot of times is like some raging bull in a China Closet, charging the basket and throwing up some wild ass jock shot that hits the bottom side of the back board to defend Storr & Griffen – -example of their play they were 5-17 from the field do you REALLY think we need to see more minutes of these guys so they can go another 2-3 of 19 from the filed? They have been given chances Hell how many times have we seen Griffen come down the floor bumbling tumblin stumblin having a hard enough time standing up on his feet,
The guys were talking about there is so much dis-content on this team, how the Coach’s don’t have them ready to play , talking about how these kids don’t like one another , no chemistry.
They were saying people hollering about Flory’s minutes saying do you REALLY think that if Flory got more minutes yesterday we would of WON this game ?- NO , NO we wouldn’t - Flory like has been mentioned he ( Bshark ) said Flory was just bad yesterday, he wouldn’t of won this game for us yesterday, Doesn’t matter No line up combo is gonna make this team any better-- -we just good to face it , this team is just not good. – Avers age team , very Average
We should of won this game yesterday , but we got dog stomped by a 12-11 team. a team more hungry then these guys. Talking about we need to re-evaluate our NINE Assistants - needs to be a change
I think some people are taking some things to for granted with Diggy & Flory coming back,-- I 100 % feel Diggy is done and won’t be back, and Flory ? – Flory ?- -with the way things have played out this Season, his minuttes not there - chemisty ?- -dont be surprised , is he ready ?-- Hell no but don’t be surprised if he doesn’t come back
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Bro Sheron played more minutes than Russ and was a HUGE team player by not basically demanding he start.
Russ only played 20 minutes the Natty game including OT!
DG led a very short rotation to a FF. Tyshawn lead an even shorter bench to a Natty runner up. Dotson didn’t get his chance to do it.
You are blatantly wrong.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Bro Sheron played more minutes than Russ and was a HUGE team player by not basically demanding he start.
Russ only played 20 minutes the Natty game including OT!
DG led a very short rotation to a FF. Tyshawn lead an even shorter bench to a Natty runner up. Dotson didn’t get his chance to do it.
You are blatantly wrong.
Like semantics, sure they didn’t win a Natty (except Sherron). But they were all clearly Bill’s best teams here. Argue with a wall if you disagree.
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And like yea, ok, sure, we ALL feel like the shortcoming from the Frank Mason teams was Frank. The NPOY… And not that his starting C was Landen Fucking Lucas both those EE runs.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Bro Sheron played more minutes than Russ and was a HUGE team player by not basically demanding he start.
Russ only played 20 minutes the Natty game including OT!
DG led a very short rotation to a FF. Tyshawn lead an even shorter bench to a Natty runner up. Dotson didn’t get his chance to do it.
You are blatantly wrong.
Who were the starting PG’s that hung banners for Self? Non scoring PG’s with a scoring PG coming off the bench. You can claim whatever you want, but at the end of the day, none of those other teams won national title. Also, remind me what 17ppg scorer Perry Ellis did in the 2016 Villanova game?
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@SlimShaddy54 I doubt Diggy has what it takes to be a solid PG aka BIFM - I’m fine if he’s gone. Moore has bigger balls than anybody in the team. Flory or any kind of slim athletic power fwd/center players out of HS, should not join KU when BS is still at the throne. He doesn’t have the right formula to use them. Period. That’s very unfortunate. These days, players like that will be recruited by NBA and will thrive for years. Guys like HD, Lawson, Ellis, Landen, will never survive in NBA. Flory seems to be smarter, better defensively, has more upsides than Udeh. We’ll miss FB, sadly. I’m excited Peterson joined next season. The Brazillian dude has shown potentials, but will present challenges to BS & his staff again and again. Will he force those slim athletic centers to play high-low? We know this won’t work. We won natty with David because Remy was just a natural. BS has yet to show his worth as an HOF with unlimited term, IMHO.
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@jay4ever Check out my thread about help being on the way— deals with Darryn, MY GOD that kid is a beast and absolute 100 % real. As far a Flory I think there is at least a 50/50 now him trying NBA next year, probably not, but god chance he hits portal, think frustrating for him not playing as much right now.- -Read in another article saying looks like he has stepped back and on cruise control since KJ being back- - and ya Diggy have no doubt he is - GONE his minutes would be so scarce next year, because El Marko going to run the point and when he is not-- Darryn will slide over to run. - -There had ben a lot of talk Darryn wanted to play point at one time, so no surprise if he doesn’t slide over when El Marko is out.
Yet with the expanding roster to 15 right next year ? – I guess never say neve , but he would be option number three
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You are such a literal person you can’t even evaluate things beyond the stat sheet.
Who finished both NC games at PG? National Championship on the line, who is in the game? Russ? Nope. Juan? Nope.
Remy played the final 9 minutes. Sherron played the final 15. Mario’s miracle, was Sherron or Russ in??? But hang the banner Russ! He did it! Juan won that Natty!
If you could add Remy Martin to this team and you’d have to drop Juan for the rest of the season you telling me you wouldn’t?
If you could add Russ or Sherron to this years team in place of Juan, who are you adding?
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Tyshawn or Juan?
DG or Juan?
Frank or Juan?
Is Juan the only problem with this year’s team? Obviously not. But I would agree with a lot of other posters that think this team’s ceiling/margin for error is very limited by their PG who has a limited skill set himself.
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@Kcmatt7 For me Frank hands down , followed up by Devonte
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@Kcmatt7 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Tyshawn or Juan?
DG or Juan?
Frank or Juan?
Is Juan the only problem with this year’s team? Obviously not. But I would agree with a lot of other posters that think this team’s ceiling/margin for error is very limited by their PG who has a limited skill set himself.
Mic drop….cant believe you are actually having to argue this lol
Self does best with a stud pg. Dee brown/Deron Williams, Mario/Sherron, Tyshawn/Ej, Frank/Devonte, Dotson, Remy
This team is on the worst two year run and people are still head so far up selfs arse to defend d2 and kj - comically bad analysis and explains why they coach jr high ball
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The issue next year will be diggy/Elmarko playing over a pg transfer and under performing
Us not getting DP involved enough in the offense
Us in crucial situations trying to play through bigs for low block buckets versus giving dp the ball in pnr or letting him go 1 v 1
Self’s brain doesn’t compute basketball that way and never will. He’s getting more stubborn as we go. Defending guys, arguing with the media, calling out the fanbase and just blatant lack of accountability for the trash he’s putting out there. The W-L has been brutal and he’s taken zero accountability
Sawwffftttt
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@Kcmatt7 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
You are such a literal person you can’t even evaluate things beyond the stat sheet.
Who finished both NC games at PG? National Championship on the line, who is in the game? Russ? Nope. Juan? Nope.
Remy played the final 9 minutes. Sherron played the final 15. Mario’s miracle, was Sherron or Russ in??? But hang the banner Russ! He did it! Juan won that Natty!
If you could add Remy Martin to this team and you’d have to drop Juan for the rest of the season you telling me you wouldn’t?
If you could add Russ or Sherron to this years team in place of Juan, who are you adding?
You’re so zeroed in on one specific moment from each of those seasons that you’re missing the point. Sherron amd Remy may have been on the floor towards the end of those games, but KU doesn’t get to those moments without Russell Robinson and Dejuan Harris. It was never a one or the other argument that you’re trying to claim, KU needed both PG’s each year to win those titles. KU doesn’t win in 2008 with only Sherron, KU doesn’t win in 2022 with only Remy. Sherron needed Robinson in 2008 and Remy needed Harris in 2022.
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What if… I said again What if, BS completely adopts runner & gunner team or at least try one season. Just one season, when he won’t need to rely so much on a PG or two. Draft only those who’s got length, athleticism, ball handling skills - don’t have to be prolific 3pt shooters, but the prior skill set is a must. We’ve got Marko, DP, Calderon, Kease, Rylo with those characteristics plus benchers like Storr, Tiller. If FB stays, great. I think we’ve got ourselves a run-gun A team next season. Plus, God forbid, BS’ recruiting staff doesn’t screw up, we can get 1-2 like DeVries or Ballo that’d be heaven. I imagined FB would be molded by BS turning to someone like Ballo, but boy… reality bites.
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On a wonderful little side note, I read where Beasley was arrested this morning when trying to board a plane for possession of pot. not an awful lot - - 6 grams but still typical roflmao
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@jay4ever this would be awesome but it is an alternate universe
The most stubborn coach who loves to win ugly is after decades just switch his philosophy….wont happen but man would it be fun with the athletes we might have next year
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Both of those teams could have won without those two guys easily.
Any average pg especially in 2022 could have done it
You can’t say the same about not having Sherron or remy - without those guys especially remy then d2 would be bounced by creighton in rd32 yet again - shocker
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Dude you’re the one zeroed in on a specific moment. You’re the one focused on NCs and not seasons.
I’m using your argument that a single game, the NC, was won because we had a scorer who ran the show.
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@Kcmatt7 Yes, I’m focused on the national title seasons because that’s the goal each season, not a Final Four and not an Elite 8. And in each of those two seasons, the two greatest seasons under Self, it was pass first PG starting with a scoring PG coming off the bench.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I have to agree with you on winning the Title for sure, there are so many who worry about where their team is ranked during the year, how many Conference championships --things of that Nature.
I’ve had other discussions with some where you have to point out , sure winning Conference Championships are nice BUT the bottom line is if you were to ask a player – a Coach , team who the F - - - ever what the Ultimate goal of the Season would be ? – to the man it’s the NCAA Championship , for some their light just doesn’t come on , not understanding lol.
Bottom line of it too is there are times even when the Best team and the body of work they have done over the course of the Season doesn’t scheive the Championship , so many things go into that ride, how your seeded - -who you draw- – -your regions bracket— who is hot/on a roll at the time- -There can only be ONE winner in the end and everyone else ends their season with an L
Look at KU 1988- -we sure the hell wasn’t the best team over the Season-- -NC States miracle run. But anyways bottom line is you are absolutely 100 % right on a teams goal-- it’s A National Title, and nothing else
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Dang , little surprised after losing to the kittens we only dropped ONE spot in the AP - -dropped THREE in the Coach’s , - went from 16/17th in Ap-- surprises me a bit, thought we would probably be like 23rd.-- -U Conn dropped out of AP- - & like 24th in the Coach’s
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@SlimShaddy54 said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
Dang , little surprised after losing to the kittens we only dropped ONE spot in the AP - -dropped THREE in the Coach’s , - went from 16/17th in Ap-- surprises me a bit, thought we would probably be like 23rd.-- -U Conn dropped out of AP- - & like 24th in the Coach’s
We aren’t a Top 25 team IMO
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@kjayhawks I know that , that’s why I was surprised
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@SlimShaddy54 SOS wise, we look so much tougher even getting beat-up by #60. lol
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@jay4ever lol , you mean like tonight lmao
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My goodness no game chat
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@kjayhawks said in Oh how I hate Kansas State.:
My goodness no game chat
Probably a good thing since we are tied at the first TV timeout against a team that is 0-12 in conference…
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@DCHawker see what just needed one
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@SlimShaddy54 #100 and won ugly… but it’s a good confidence building for the team and HC. Team will win double digits again against the Yutees before getting drained by BYU’s 3s. I really want to see Flory deployed on the perimeter. That’s the only answer to guard those 3s.
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@kuballin10 You’ve got me there.
