Putting things in context
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@Zabudda From what I’ve heard, he’s going to play.
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@approxinfinity Now that you’ve noticed, you’ll see it a lot. Pb gets used as a past tense verb all the time.
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@drgnslayr Since moving north of the border I’ve become bilingual. I can now speak both Canadian and American.
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@tundrahok Alors on peut parler avec le joual mon chum!
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@Jhawk69 Sorry, not that kind of Canadian.
Merely anglophone
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@tundrahok eh?
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“Flory and Shak didn’t score today. And at least the other two at least the lid was off the basket a little bit. So yeah, that wasn’t a real difficult decision.”
We are doomed. KJ had 6 points but the lid was off lol.
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Bill has lost his mind.
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For someone who has hung his hat on having elite defenses through the years he has a pretty myopic interpretation of impact on the game.
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If Bill Self loses to KSU next weekend he should fired immediately. 3-3 vs Tang should be the last straw
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@kjayhawks said in Putting things in context:
If Bill Slef loses to KSU next weekend he should fired immediately. 3-3 vs Tang should be the last straw
lol okay stahp. It’s one season
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@Kcmatt7 definitely isn’t one season it’s been 3 we have underperformed. Self just doesn’t have it anymore
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@kjayhawks I feel like the grace period after a natty is 5 years minimum.
Two Nattys may honestly have earned you a lifetime hand it up when you’re done.
When you become the winningest coach in KUBB history, I feel like maybe you’ve earned going out on your own terms.
Jmo
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Been hearing a lot lately that at one point or another this Season that Every single rotational player,- --guys who play-- not walk on’s but rest oWell guess it’s been one of those days.
other teams should be embarrasses , not letting KU off the hook but other examples just ABOUT AS BAD.
The # 3 ranked team in the Nation Iowa State just manhandled by K/State on their home floor where they had the Nations 2nd longest homecourt winning streak and K/State pretty much controlled that game from start to finish winning by 19. K/STATE a bottom dweller with the win 4-6 in Conf and now 11-11 on the year- kicks ISU ass
Coach Cal brings his Arkansas team into Rupp- - Arkansas 12-8 on the yr 1-6 in the SEC and beats the hell out of Kentucky by like 14 I think Kentucky ranked 12 in the Nation and 15-5 on the year and 4-2 in SEC and Arkansas whips their ass in Rupp.
And to a much lesser degree but still a costly loss losing on your home floor with the Nations longest home court winning streak Houston going down to Tech
By far not an excuse but just saying there were some embarrassing loses today Kentucky, & Iowas St on their home floors
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@Kcmatt7 I wish I felt the same way I’m just absolutely disgusted in Selfs decision making the last few years. This program headed down in a bad way. I’m hearing Peterson is now having second thoughts about coming and for the record I don’t blame him one bit. I would steer clear of this place if I was him. I’m just scratching my head as to why you would build a 20 point lead with Flory and Rylen then set them down for most of the next half. At this point KJ is the worst multiple year starter in the Self era and Juan is the worst PG.
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@Kcmatt7 sadly it’s an easy fix…. Play your best players not the ones that you have a better personal relationship with. It’s just not good coaching period
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Valid points, Self has earned a lot of patience.
One thing that stings is the statement made about not repeating last year. That’s looking like something that he didn’t actually fix.
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The crux of the problem…
KJ’s stats the past 3 years:
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 18 28.6 49.6 0.0 78.6 4.7 2.2 0.9 0.8 2.4 1.1 8.3 34 33.4 60.1 0.0 60.0 4.6 3.1 0.6 1.1 2.4 1.8 12.6 36 27.3 62.2 0.0 60.7 4.3 1.9 0.8 0.8 2.9 1.5 10.6
What leaps out? Consistency, but zero progression. Actually, his numbers are down this year - scoring and shooting percentage (precipitously). Braun, Ogbaji, Wilson and McCullar all stepped up their junior or senior seasons and took on the leadership, alpha role. KJ is he who he is - a solid role player, but only that. Arguably a dependable bench player rather than 30+ minute starter. Tough to win with a 4 as a starter who can’t average 5 RBs, is shooting 40%, can’t make a shot from outside the paint, and averages just two FTAs per game.
DaJuan’s stats the past 4 years:
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 20 32.0 44.1 31.6 65.9 2.8 5.9 0.4 1.5 1.1 1.8 9.8 34 35.7 42.4 38.4 80.4 2.0 6.5 0.4 1.5 1.6 2.4 8.5 36 34.2 47.1 40.5 59.6 2.5 6.2 0.4 2.2 1.6 2.0 8.9 40 29.0 42.7 32.3 79.2 1.4 4.2 0.3 1.5 2.0 1.5 5.4
What leaps out? Consistency, but no progression. Juan is who is he is. A solid game manager and decent defender, but he needs to have better players around him. Tough to win with a PG who can’t create his own shot, can’t beat his defender off the dribble, can’t finish drives, averages only 2 FTAs per game and doesn’t make them consistently when he does get to the line. Yes, was PG on a national championship team, but there were 3 NBA players on that team, and it was the “back-up” PG who was often on the floor at critical times, because he could create his own shot and score.
Dickinson’s stats the past 4 years:
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 21 29.9 52.6 22.2 79.7 9.7 2.2 1.4 1.1 2.1 1.8 16.4 33 32.2 54.8 35.4 62.4 10.9 2.3 1.4 0.9 2.2 1.8 17.9 34 32.7 56.0 42.1 72.7 9.0 1.5 1.8 0.5 1.9 2.0 18.5 32 32.3 56.3 32.8 80.2 8.6 2.3 1.5 0.5 2.7 2.0 18.6
What leaps out? Consistency, but no progression. Slight regression scoring and shooting % this year. He is who he is. A skilled low post scorer and solid rebounder, but who isn’t a rim protector and is a defensive liability against stretch 5s and pick and rolls. As I noted in another thread, his strengths don’t seem to be enough to overcome his weaknesses. His teams will have had double digit losses each of the past 4 years (assuming we will lose at least 4 more this year).
With those 3 as starters, you have to have guys at the 2 and 3 who can make up for their limitations - who can light it up from outside, regularly attack the rim and finish or get to the FT line, and who can defend the perimeter and keep their opponent from getting into the paint - not just one of those attributes (Griffen from 3 or Storr to attack, for example), but all three. And, we don’t have any close to that. McCullar gave us close to that last year, which is why we were better than we are now until he got hurt.
The issue is and has been roster construction - over-reliance on solid role players who aren’t close to having NBA level talent, and completely whiffing on transfers the past two years. To compete for a national championship, you have to have multiple NBA level players on the roster - we do not…
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Sorry - the stats formatting was correct in the post - not sure how to correct…
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Nailed it.
To format i think put two carriage returns between each row
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Look at UCLA, Nova, Syracuse Louisville, UNC and Indiana. It is not easy to replace your superstar coach. People definitely take Bill for granted.
Duke hasn’t won a Natty in a decade. Kentucky hasn’t won one in 13 years.
In Bill’s time here he has won with two bigs, playing 4 guards, playing a modern stretch 4, etc.
Honestly it is kind of asinine to think the game has passed him by. I think he genuinely plays the 8 guys he thinks are the best. Does he play them the rotation fans would prefer? No. But usually he correctly identifies the best 8.
I won’t be sad to see this senior class leave, no doubt. But I would never write off a guy who has won a Natty playing high low and the 4 out as a guy who has let the game pass him by.
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@Kcmatt7 I agree, but what I wonder is if his reliance on his seniors is an indication that he plans to leave anyway whether conscious decision or not.
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@approxinfinity said in Putting things in context:
@Kcmatt7 I agree, but what I wonder is if his reliance on his seniors is an indication that he plans to leave anyway whether conscious decision or not.
He is going to coach Peterson before he hangs it up imo. You don’t get to coach talent like that too often.
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No doubt it’s difficult to replace legends. My criticism of Bill this year is not a reflection of his past accomplishments. He has adapted plenty over the years, most impressive on the fly at times.
There is a negative trend the past 2-3 years though and I do think a bunch of it centers around the 3 seniors who’ve been here multiple seasons. Not one of them got better from last year to this year and statistically just about all 3 of them have regressed. So what’s the issue there. Bill has had countless guys hit their senior year and that was their best year. We are not seeing it, so what’s changed?
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@approxinfinity said in Putting things in context:
@Kcmatt7 I agree, but what I wonder is if his reliance on his seniors is an indication that he plans to leave anyway whether conscious decision or not.
I don’t see it happening after this season unless it’s something health related forcing him into retirement. I do think NIL politics will be what drives him out because we’ve seen it happen at Villanova, Virginia, and Miami now with some of the other top coaches in the game.
I do think Self is around next year because next year’s team will be a legit title contender with Flory, Peterson, and Jackson running the show. I hope Rylan comes back next season because I believe he’d be a great fit with the roster next season. Tiller I think will be a solid player, but he’s mostly a below the rim player and misses a lot of bunnies, even in his highlight film and would be better served as Flory’s back up next season. He also has limited range so playing him amd Flory together would create spacing issues on offense.
I think a true stretch 4 should be top priority along with a wing if Rylan leaves and a PG if Elmarko has a setback.
We’ll see with the 5×5 rule what happens with Zeke, but he’s a player that struggles against top level competition. KU has played 5 games against currently ranked teams (Michigan St., Duke, Missouri, ISU, and Houston) and Mayo has struggled with shooting in all of those games. I know he was the only KU player in double figures in Ames, but he was still 7-19 from the field and 3-9 from 3.
I said at the beginning of the season that this team lacks NBA ready talent as there’s nobody, including Flory, that will be on an NBA roster opening night next October. 2025-26 is a different story as KU should have at least 2 players (Peterson and Flory) that will be on NBA rosters on opening night in October of 2026.
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@kjayhawks said in Putting things in context:
@Kcmatt7 I wish I felt the same way I’m just absolutely disgusted in Selfs decision making the last few years. This program headed down in a bad way. I’m hearing Peterson is now having second thoughts about coming and for the record I don’t blame him one bit. I would steer clear of this place if I was him. I’m just scratching my head as to why you would build a 20 point lead with Flory and Rylen then set them down for most of the next half. At this point KJ is the worst multiple year starter in the Self era and Juan is the worst PG.
LOL… You aren’t hearing shit on Peterson. So dramatic.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Putting things in context:
No doubt it’s difficult to replace legends. My criticism of Bill this year is not a reflection of his past accomplishments. He has adapted plenty over the years, most impressive on the fly at times.
There is a negative trend the past 2-3 years though and I do think a bunch of it centers around the 3 seniors who’ve been here multiple seasons. Not one of them got better from last year to this year and statistically just about all 3 of them have regressed. So what’s the issue there. Bill has had countless guys hit their senior year and that was their best year. We are not seeing it, so what’s changed?
They’re not NBA talent, that’s the difference. Most of the players you’re referring to are players that had the talent, declared for the draft after their junior years, went through the predraft process to get NBA feedback, and came back for their senior years as expected and worked on those skills and became NBA draft picks, even if it was a second round pick.
I don’t think many actually understand just how much the FBI/NCAA investigations killed KU’s recruiting. KU only brought in 3 players from the time the NCAA investigation was announced in the summer of 2020 that became NBA draft picks. KJ and Zach Clemence are still here from the 2021 class that saw Self bring in 8 players (including transfers) and will produce 0 NBA players (only 2 players are still here). The 2022 class included 5 players and included 2 of the 3 NBA picks in Dick and McCullar (nobody from that class is still at KU). 2023 saw Self bring in 9 new players. 1 has been drafted (Furphy), and 1 could be drafted down the line (Elmarko), but only 3 of those players are even still on the roster (Dickinson, Jackson, McDowell), and only one is playing this season (Dickinson). The 2024 class featured 9 new players again with only one looking like a future NBA player (Flory) now. If Griffen learns how to play defense, he could become a draft picks.
That’s why KU is in the boat they’re in right now. The portal has killed the the 4-5 year players at programs since they don’t have to sit out a season anymore. KJ may very well be the last 4 year guy for Self at KU that’s a rotation player for 3+ seasons.
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Good points. It’s also showing Self hasn’t figured out how to build a roster in the NIL/portal heavy era. We have decades of history built upon 4-year guys building up to the top, having a mix of top end HS talent spending 1-3 years here to fill the gaps. This new era has turned a lot of things upside down on roster building. The FBI issue with recruiting sucked and it impacted us bigtime. The limbo that the program ended up in for years was more damaging than the end penalties. That still falls on the Coach and the University regardless of the details, which they matter heavily, but it’s something that cannot be excused easily.
The evals of players the staff focuses on and end up landing has led to high expectations but well below expected output (Timberlake/Storr) from the last two cycles. These two guys in particular were players that this staff prioritized to help fill specific roles and neither has/had thrived here. Bill has a type of player that usually fits well in the system and neither at face value looked like great fits from our fanbase observations, so I’d like to understand why they felt both players were going to become something different here. We seem to be trying to make players something they aren’t and that’s causing issues. This issue isn’t only impacting KU but I’m generally concerned we are not getting the right guys from the portal that will have an easier time thriving here. It’s one thing to take a shot on a younger transfer prospect but when you take guys like Timberlake, Storr that established habits at other schools that you know are problematic for Self it makes you wonder what is going on. I think player scouting and determining what guys fit here is something that must improve for the future.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Alright honest question because I don’t get it.
Self wins when he has players in his system right? Kj and Juan have been here for 4-5 years so we should be dominating right? If so - why not?
Bill gets the top of the list in the portal which are always already proven stud players from other schools
Sprinkle in Dick and other good freshman like flory and I don’t see your defense of the rosters we’ve rolled out
He’s had top 5 rosters over and over and dude is blowing it cause he can’t make the pieces fit and he coaches guys differently than others (straight up favoritism as I’ve alluded to and constantly proven heck zeke out in these streets liking posts for flory)
Pair that with the kj/juan pnr 3 straight times down the court it is clear Self has no idea the skill set of his favorite dudes because no coach worth a crap has those two offensive juggernauts getting plays drawn up for them late second half
He’s literally the blinded parent to them who could never see it even with film and we got a hell of a lot of film on how bad they are (heck analytics too)
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I feel like everyone here WANTS me to be KU’S head coach. I would make each player sign a contract saying they will play 4 years at Kansas. They will get ZERO NIL dollars. If they’re good enough, they can make their millions in the NBA (in four years) And if they don’t sweat blood at every practice and game then they will think Bob Knight (like any of them know who he is…) was the sweetest little thing they ever heard of. I can start this Saturday.
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@nuleafjhawk ….so youre saying we should appreciate what we have got with Self, because it could be much worse?
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@approxinfinity LOL. If I was the coach, it would be a heck of a lot more interesting. And everyone would BEG Self to come back.
