Muck Fizzou
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We knew it was going to take time for this team to gel with the new faces. Seemed like they had it together until this week for some reason. Both crowds impacted them negatively, both defensive game plans impacted them. Creighton and Missouri had known ways of how they wanted to attack KU and had no resistance especially in the first half in doing so. It does seem like a lot of these guys need to make shots to be engaged/play well. Defensively this group is a mess and does not really have a stopper to depend on so defense isn’t going to be this teams calling card. We’ve seen KJ, Griffen and Harris “D Up” for games but rarely do we get those games as a collective. There’s a lot more to work on then the ranking they had would suggest.
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Man, this thread…
People bashing Self and somehow it’s all on him?? These fn players get PAID NOW. How about STFU, quit pouting, and do what the coach says? You know the coach who knows what it takes to win.
I made my third trip to Kansas for the UNC game from my home in Ohio this season, mostly because my son who’s 14 enjoys it. The Fieldhouse and Coach Self are the main draws now because the players change yearly in the NIL era so it’s not for them anymore. Seeing Mayo, the local kid, have a great game that night was refreshing. I’ve loved college basketball for a long time, but all of this is getting toxic and tiring. Once Self retires I’ll probably lose interest.
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@BeddieKU23 Well be our luck now because ranking enough lower they won’t think they need to work as hard - - Ranked 10th, actually they are not as low as I thought they might be. – I’m not real sure they are a top 10 team at this point.
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@BigBad Well said. I’ve tried to say before, if it was acceptable by the NCAA regulation, after performances like this last week if he could get away with it Coach Self would make sure these guys had an understanding about the game of basketball
Thing is a Coach can only do so much, he can grill these kids , keep running the same things , basic things and such but at the end of the day it’s the players responsibility to handle business, He can’t go out on the floor , bring the ball up the floor , make the right passes , make the right decisions , get the rebounds , set the screens , defend the ball , play the pick and roll on defense , That falls on the players
Coach doesn’t have time to baby sit some of these guys - -guys that think they should start - -play 30/33/35 minutes a game without proving their case and showing they deserve those things.- -There is not a single person in this chat room that doesn’t know that if you don’t play defense or at least try to play defense then your not going to play. There are some players that think there is only one end the court - -the offensive end, but even then you would think there was some deadly formula on the back boards that will be fatal if they should by accident try and get after a offensive rebound.
You have certain players that just don’t want to try and defend, they just want to play the offensive end, and don’t do a very good job of that either , by making bad decisions with very bad shot selection , forced shots and errant dum passes.
I’ll give Flory & Passmore a little bit of a pass with this right now- -they are Freshmen still learning , but when you have fifth , sixth yr players- -experienced portal players that’s play college ball when your having them play like they are and some it shows as long as they are getting that NIL - it’s like eh, I’m not playing defense , I’m not worried about effort, they don’t give a dam about who they are representing as long as they have their NIL they are good to go. IF there are players that are wishing they were back at Alabama , or Wisconsin or where the frick ever I’d be the first one showing them the door. You want out?- -then get the hell out and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. We want kids here at KU that WANT TO BE HERE because of our rich Basketball history, not just NIL
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@BeddieKU23 So, just posing the question - why wouldn’t it take even much more time to gel at UK, with both portal additions and a new coach???
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@BigBad I think the majority of the blame is squarely on Selfs shoulders. The team that he constructed wasn’t ready to play. He is basically in the role of coach and GM of this program. He hand picked these players, so yes it is on him he has to have accountability for this. As I’ve stated and others 2022 likely saved his job. Not to go full blown Kensucky fan on here but he’s has the talent to win a national title every other year on average.
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@SlimShaddy54 probably not. Top 10 teams don’t lose back to back games to unranked teams. We shouldn’t be top 25.
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Self took a bunch of 3 stars and 3 and 4 yr players to win a National Championship. They played as a team and played for each other. Self played Big Dave when I listened to most people on here cussing coach! AJ came w/attitude problems, he knew how Self coached, he knows he could be a star if he’d let him coach him up. J Will, Young Och, CB all are doing great! I think coach knows more than anyone on here. Let’s hope those 3 transfers get their sh1! together.
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@kjayhawks You get my gripe and it is very simple
Self throws papers down and throws a tantrum with some of the newbies shot selection or defense but “his guys” make the same mistakes and are allowed to play through it
Rylan is a starter from a final 4 team and already “proven it” elsewhere.
Either Self is that stupid to not see his bias (very possible like the majority of parents who say they don’t have a favorite kid but respond favorably/patient to 1 but not the others) or he just doesn’t care. That paired with his staff not pointing out his shortcomings or he’s too prideful to even consider it….not sure which but it is 100% on Self
He recruited and brought these guys in after watching all sorts of film and knowing their games
If he can’t get them to gel because “he’s in their heads” his words not mine - that’s the literal proof he’s eff’d it up
When 90% of the Joe smoes behind a keyboard can see the drastic favoritism……u don’t think this veteran transfers are not seeing it??? They are experiencing it and pissed!
Self’s old school- trust seniors give them a long leash and ride hard the freshman. Dude can’t grasp how to properly orient his teams which is evident by all the talent and a ton of early flame outs
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@Crimsonorblue22 With the transfer portal we don’t have 3-4 years for Self to finally trust guys and let them play through mistakes
Those 3 and 4 stars worked on their game and became nba players. They’d done the same thing no matter what blue blood they went to.
Self and his system didn’t win that title those guys actually saved his arse on it giving him his second lucky title
The 2008 was full of what….oh no kidding jrs and srs
Self ain’t built for this portal era and we should have seen it coming.
He said after the heart stuff we were gonna level up and instead we’ve leveled down….what a crap show
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@BigBad keep polishing that turd big guy and telling yourself with those rose colored glasses it will be alright
Circle back in March
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SLOW DOWN… people! Is it the end of our season already?
I stayed up last night and watched the game on tape. It was bad… no question. Is it the end? Hell no?
Is it possible we were too optimistic about our incoming transfers’ play in the fall? Hell yes! I’m not going to flip out yet. I know we all have some PTSD from last year, but this is not that team and give it time.
It is normal for players to come in and start cold on a new team. They are unsettled. Doesn’t matter that they are experienced D1 players. I am definitely willing to take some bad losses now instead of later. I keep flashing back to 2022 and how bad Kentucky smoked us in AFH. We played like p*sses in that game… just like now.
The KUSports article calls it right in that this team has no identity yet. But also, individual players have no identity, too.
All I care about is how we are trending later in the year. Sure worked in 2022!
Right now we need only ONE PLAYER to step up and fight like it’s Meso ball! I still say the #1 underachiever on this team is the guy who is also famous on this team for hustling… KJ! With a body like his and athleticism to go with it, to see him averaging 3 or 4 rebounds a game is pathetic. And it gives the entire team an excuse to slack off on some duties. If he would just focus on what it takes to own the boards… he should be averaging near double-digit numbers in rebounds, even playing beside a guy like Hunter.
I think the trey shooting will come around. I’m really not worried about it. The guys will go work their butts off over Christmas to develop some flow and watch those numbers climb.
Our confidence has been punched in the gut. But we will come off the canvas and fight back. These guys will find they have enough pride to get up and fight. Even Hunter will take on the challenge once the team trends in the right direction. He’s a unique guy, not really a leader, yet he will fight when the team fights.
Self will figure this out. He’ll review tape and see how the guys got out of their rhythm then will address it with them to right the ship.
So glad we are no longer #1. That never bodes well for us to be ranked at the top!
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@DCHawker said in Muck Fizzou:
@BeddieKU23 So, just posing the question - why wouldn’t it take even much more time to gel at UK, with both portal additions and a new coach???
Well, that question could be answered several ways. Sometimes coaches have that initial success at a new stop bringing in guys and then struggle to sustain. The Missouri coach is a good example from a few years back, basically a new team through the portal with success but then couldn’t win a game in the SEC last year. Again, I think the Portal is something this staff needs to continue to figure out what is the best approach. It’s still early, we’ve seen a mixed bag from the transfers so far.
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Where is the “Fire Dan Hurley” thread? Lol
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@approxinfinity Hurley is more likely to fire himself.
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@kuballin10 Ok man. I for one NEVER bought into the #1 ranking. I also understand you don’t win titles year after year, hence I don’t get upset like you do.
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@approxinfinity Oh GOD forbid - - KUballin 10 - - help us ol wise one where is the fire Dany Hurley thread help us please oh mighty one
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We may not win another game.
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@BigBad " I also understand you don’t win titles year after year "
Unless your name is UCONN
Or Kansas City Chiefs
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After both Creighton and the slavers I think panic is reasonable. We now know this team does not win on the road
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@nuleafjhawk I’m a chargers fan so I can tell you it’s becoming obvious chiefs fandom arrogance and rediculous expectations are leaking over into Kansas basketball.
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@BigBad Nope. KU has been exceedingly more prosperous, more Conference Championships, more National Championships, more overall success by a landslide than the Chiefs ever have.
Since you’re not a Chiefs fan, you have the same attitude towards them that every other team not named Kansas has towards us - you hate them because they’re highly successful.
There is an answer to that - be better.
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From TOS which sums up Self. Self is 1 & 2. If anyone wants to debate it bring your proof and feel free……
- A mediocre coach can have a good system but recruits players who do not fit his system and then try to force them to fit his system.
- A good coach has a good system and recruits players who fit his system.
- A great coach recruits great players, forgets whatever system he has had, and develops a new scheme that would maximize the potentials of the players and forma a great team.
Unfortunately, the performance of the coach in these last two seasons belongs to the first category.
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It’s evil to keep shoving us in at preseason #1 every year. First, we don’t deserve it and just builds the hate against us because we get judged as privileged. I’ve heard us mentioned in the same foul wind as Puke! Second, I believe it thwarts our development.
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Wait, are we calling Self a “mediocre” coach now? FFS
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@drgnslayr a ranking from some media heads has nothing to do with how the team plays
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@Woodrow straw man arguments out to play today
State your case on what I posted about the 3 options or heck create a new one idc but something besides over exaggerating what was posted
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@kuballin10 What exactly did I over exaggerate? I used your word, did I not?
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Also, for the record myself or anyone else with a functioning brain doesn’t have to state a case for Bill Self. His records speak for themselves. People acting like he forgot to coach, is “mediocre”, etc… are just telling on themselves. It makes them sound dumb and uneducated when it comes to basketball.
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@Woodrow Fair enough
Last 5 years and this year he’s had 1 title and a bunch of mediocre by KU standards
This year, last year and the year before will be 2nd round bounces with blowouts
Do you ever remember a KU team getting blown out this much on the road???
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@kuballin10 First of all we have no idea what is going to happen this year.
Road performances are an issue, but I am not going to freak out about this year 9 games in.
Also, lets not forget about the COVID tournament being cancelled. That team was elite. It is not HCBS fault a pandemic hurt.
Let’s see what happens over the next month.
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I saw Rylan Griffen report to the scorers table enter the game and chuck up a clanker from 30 feet and looked bad doing it. Self pulled him and replaced him with a guy who had been tearing it up by going 1 for 7 on corner threes and Juan thought I’ll shoot 21 times because what have we got to lose? I think that Juan could reasonably make 50% of his threes and drives if he did it every game. Mayo might also when he actually has an idea of where he is going before he drives or receives a pass and quits the cute pocket passes because no one has been ready even once. Hunter might as well keep chucking pull up threes because as slow as he is on the fast break he will have plenty of opportunities and might get in a rhythm. Can we learn team defense and relieve Hunter and Flory from ball switching duties and leaving the lane completely empty? I really don’t know how good this team made up of talented ballers can get but it better get going in a hurry because our stats are mid to lower tier in comparison to the conference teams. I have been watching teams play hard on both ends of the floor and show team togetherness and it’s enjoyable to see. If a player dogs it and doesn’t big time hustle on every play you see them sitting on the bench where they can hurt the team there also by denying the display of their real talents. No one but Coit seems to get it from off the bench. Quit subbing in bewildered looking guys. Give Zach more of Flory’s minutes and see who wants it the most. Come on Zeke, AJ and Rylan you are scorers and not a waddle of penguins outside the three point line. Run into people, get your shots blocked and you might end up in a place called offensive rebound land. Foul out getting charges instead of making lousy passes. Show the scouts you are not a possible pouting head case. NIL donors please make these guys do embarrassing ads for goodness sakes.
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@kuballin10 ya believe Villanova did yrs back, just curb stomped KU
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@Woodrow This team is the same 3 dudes plus a little better bench
Winning on the road is the best predictor for neutral site success. Our Duke win was niicceee no argument there but if we get not just beat but beat bad on the road again that will speak volumes
That Covid team was nasty defensively but I think they’d ran into an offensive buzzsaw similar to those 16-19 Nova teams and gotten got in the final 4. They labored to score with Marcus Garrett at the 2 spot…it was throw it in to Doke and let him carry us.
We saw that final 4 script against nova a few years before which resulted in yet another blowout
Bill’s system of valuing 2’s over 3’s isn’t backed by data or analytics. NBA the highest level of ball has figured it out but Self and his Sutton ways are still stop easy buckets and go get them. This isn’t the 1980’s when the game in college wasn’t as physical or athletic as it is now. Go watch the 88 title game and then pull up us against missery and it’s night and day different on hand checking and shoving dudes
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@Woodrow I copied that post
Bill is not mediocre by any means but he isn’t as great as his record shows….kinda like Brady having 7 rings in a team sport but winning a Super Bowl scoring 13 points or winning another 1 where the entire playoffs he threw 1 td pass
There aren’t in my opinion many excellent coaches
Roy had his flaws here
Coach K had plenty of 1st round exits as Duke as well
That’s why what UConn did last year was so crazy just steam rolling the ncaa tourney TWICE
Boy is Hurley a turd though….im sawwffttt cause I wouldn’t want titles if it meant he was our coach….keep that immature, terrible arrogant man away from our precious/historic progrum
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From Matt Tait quoting the man himself….he’s 1&2 but not 3 based on his own words
Self said they don’t really recruit to an identity when they’re putting a team together. They recruit potential & hope that it can play the #KUbball way, with a premium on defense, toughness, winning 50/50 balls, etc.
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Some direct , very honest , strong , solid statements from Coach: – - It used to be you threw the ball inside to draw fouls and get free throws, that’s not the case anymore. You drive the ball, attack the rim – -we don’t have guys that drive the ball.
Guys not being comfortable, and until they get comfortable instead of thinking, they have to get to the point of reacting instead of thinking.
Did mention AJ , someone ask about AJ & Coach said he isn’t doing either , said Aj is not driving the ball, attacking the rim. He said AJ averaged like four free throw attempts last Season , he said this Season he is averaging a little over one - -maybe like one . two
Said we don’t have guys driving to the basket.
He mentioned something and just totally threw the biggest curve to me. He said and I am now totally lost cause Coach was ask about Shaq Moore- - Last I knew or heard Shaq was done at KU , would never step on the floor again, that he would transfe out at Semester - - So he was ask about Shaq , and said Shaq had practiced the last couple of days and was good, and they hoped thhey could get him on the floor. Whaaaaa ? - -what did I miss ? - -what changed ? He did say they wasn’t going to just throw him in the game just for him to get minutes, but said he was doing good.— I’m lost on Shaq’s role now, but sounds to me from what Coach making statement like that - -He isn’t going anywhere
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@SlimShaddy54 Seasoned guys from other legit D1 schools come here and immediately forget how to play? They quit attacking the rim, start thinking more than playing……
So did they forget or is this a coaching issue? I’d lament we have over a decades worth of proof it is the latter
For Bill claiming you drive it…we sure throw it inside a ton still and we don’t drive it. We also have a pass first pg who rarely drives it due to his athleticism and he’s pass first
Bill’s issues are roster construction and taking the dog out of transfers trying to completely overhaul their entire game. He’s in their head and adds the quick hook in games
He’s the reoccurring common denominator
Isu’s transfers aren’t having these issues, UK as well, Zags also…
Graham Ike >>>Hunter - wish Bill would have scouted the talent better
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@kuballin10 Good Night
