KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread
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@Crimsonorblue22 why is it one way or the other? Who is to say you can’t go get talent and coach them? We know we have a Coach. Why can’t talent be the missing ingredient? May not need the one and done types. But surely better talent provides better ceiling. Language often referred to by Self and staff.
And also. CAL can coach. Don’t be fooled
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Cause Self doesn’t want to be a one and done factory!
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@FarmerJayhawk gotta have both but the studs or horses gotta be the athletes
Look at Bama they would prove this wrong unless you count quinerly
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@Crimsonorblue22 all coaches want those type athletes. No ifs, ands, or butts
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@Crimsonorblue22 do you even bother to read the threads or just throw out obnoxious preconceived thoughts to my posts?
Farmer is literally replying as we go back and forth and you chime in adding nothing to the convo but taking a shot at me. Solid
To answer this you gotta have both especially Self. He needs upper class man with some young studs. You need the best players whether they are freshman (see Brandon miller or Houston’s Walker) or through portal or whatever. Most 3-4 year guys are there for a reason and not the best players versus the 1 and domes but a team of 1 and dones doesn’t always winbthe title like @FarmerJayhawk said. Dukes with tyus Jones, jahlil okafor, Grayson Allen and Justise Winslow do prove that wrong.
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@FarmerJayhawk The Duke team I mentioned challenges that, Nova was the most talented between them and unc a few years back but yes, the talent isn’t just all freshman it’s a mix of guys
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@cragarhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 that actually provides some insight. I didn’t realize a late first round/early second round guy was guaranteed that much $$ . Is that something new? I don’t think JWil goes 1st round at all. But maybe early to mid 2nd. But still if it pays like that, no question. Go get the dollars while he can cause he’s most likely a euro league within a couple years. As much as i admire him that just seems like the ceiling
All 1st round draft picks sign 4 year contracts. The first 2 years are fully guaranteed and years 3 and 4 are team options. Second round picks are not necessarily fully guaranteed and only have to be the rookie minimum which is a little over $1 million. Early second round picks usually get at least 1 year guaranteed, but not for $2+ million.
There are also quite a few reputable sites that have Jalen going in the 25-35 range. Combine showing and interviews will likely be the biggest determining factor in Jalen being able to sneak into the end of the 1st round.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 great for him if he can do it. He definitely should. The reward is certainly over the risk. His stock is not apt to improve alot, maybe just a lil but playing the “if” game on getting hurt, etc
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@FarmerJayhawk The Duke team I mentioned challenges that, Nova was the most talented between them and unc a few years back but yes, the talent isn’t just all freshman it’s a mix of guys
Duke in 2015 had Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Marshall Plumlee, and Matt Jones as rotation players. That’s half of the rotation after Rasheed Sulaimon left the team. Over half, if count him the first half of the season. Cook was a senior and Jefferson and Plumlee were juniors. That team had experience.
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@kuballin10 I’ll throw some more out there! Brandon miller and our crowd would love tripper Allen! R u serious? We go for dtae, Svi Josh Jackson, b rush, Wiggs, embiid, Grady Dick. Oubre! Cole Aldrich. Sherron. Guys that don’t need an armed guard and don’t trip people or need a therapist. KU fans aren’t big on Duke! Perfect for you though. They got to do their own research on the Zion debacle. Cleared themselves! Forgot Frank!
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@kuballin10 it’s one example in the almost 20 years of the OAD era.
Nova had some talented dudes but they all stayed multiple years and played together. That’s how you build it. Jay didn’t really shoot for the can’t miss 5* guys. He got players with traits he could develop. He redshirted a lot of guys too. So I think that makes my point.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 I’ll throw some more out there! Brandon miller and our crowd would love tripper Allen! R u serious? We go for dtae, Svi Josh Jackson, b rush, Wiggs, embiid, Grady Dick. Oubre! Cole Aldrich. Sherron. Guys that don’t need an armed guard and don’t trip people or need a therapist. KU fans aren’t big on Duke! Perfect for you though. They got to do their own research on the Zion debacle. Cleared themselves!
Josh Jackson was a head case and so were the Morris twins early on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Josh was shaky, didn’t mention the twins.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@wissox Gradey and Kevin are 100% gone. Cuffe and Cam also out the door. TBD on the others but my guess is Zach and Yesufu are gone as well.
This is a very good guess. MJ and Joe have decisions to make. Could see Joe wanting to go to a level where he gets to shine a bit more.
If 4 leave it lets you bring in two starter level guys. Then boom, contender again.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Josh Jackson had legal issues here… Brannen Green. LeGerald Vick. Carlton Bragg.
Morris Twins nearly beat a guy to death.
KU has their own issues with players.
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We could argue raw talent vs experience vs whatever all day.
What KU lacked this year was any semblance of depth. Period.
KU needs to have 7 or 8 guys who can play basketball at this level. Idc if they are freshman or seniors. But this year was honestly unacceptable. The transfer portal and NIL should almost guarantee KU has 7 dudes who can play. We didn’t this year, and I felt like it cost us big time.
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@Kcmatt7 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
We could argue raw talent vs experience vs whatever all day.
What KU lacked this year was any semblance of depth. Period.
KU needs to have 7 or 8 guys who can play basketball at this level. Idc if they are freshman or seniors. But this year was honestly unacceptable. The transfer portal and NIL should almost guarantee KU has 7 dudes who can play. We didn’t this year, and I felt like it cost us big time.
Really unfortunate. Part of it is on Bill. He kept Cam and Cuffe around after last year. If you replace them with two other guys that might contribute, it just increases the chance of having some decent guys on the bench. This ended up being important because Zach and Bob did not develop like the staff would have hoped. Zach was expected to start. It’s fairly rare that the staff misses that badly, to be quite honest.
So I think they definitely expected to have a more playable bench this year. It didn’t work out. Hopefully Bill is ready to cut loose the dead weight. It’s a business and “contracts” with players are year to year more than ever now.
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@BShark It almost seems like you’d be better off recruiting college players than high schoolers. Take 5-6 transfers and 1-2 quality freshmen. No time for disappearing acts on the big stage. Let some other team develop the players, then poach what you want with offers of glory and NIL money that the little schools can’t touch. It’s the Wild West of the free agency period in college basketball. The ncaa has no idea what unregulated payments will do. Hint it’s not spread the wealth. The current big boys will only get more exclusive and the bottom feeders will get markedly worse.
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@dylans We are already seeing a bit of a shift to this with big programs. Bill has filled in the gaps as needed. Got his main guy in Kevin to fill a starting spot this year. Big class the year before with two real contributors on the title team. I’m counting JCL, who could have played more but was serviceable when he did. As 8th guys go, he was good. This year I feel like we need two starters, and that Self gets it done.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
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@Crimsonorblue22 Id rather win with high character guys but you can’t always pick that
Every guy you listed I love way more than miller and allen
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@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
That was also the last time it happened. More importantly KU doesn’t have the resources to pull that kind of class (3 top 10 type guys) plus you need the class to actually be good which is no guarantee as we saw this year. Outside of a few guys this year was devoid of elite play from FR.
KU tried very hard to get Jones and Okafor. Off the record, Jones may have been Bill’s most wanted PG recruit ever. Duke gonna Duke though.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
Maybe you should actually go look at the numbers for that team and get back to me. That team had an 8 man rotation after Rasheed Sulaimon left. I don’t know about you, but starting 2/3 of the games and averaging 21 minutes per game doesn’t sound like hardly playing, which is what Amile Jefferson played. I don’t know what your threshold for hardly playing is, but if being a starter and playing over half a game isn’t big minutes, then you have a very different standard than anyone else.
If you want to argue that Mason Plumlee didn’t play big minutes, that’s fine, but he was a rotation player playing just under 10 minutes per game. That also means you can’t claim Grayson Allen played and dominated when he averaged less minutes than Plumlee and only averaged 4 ppg.
But since you couldn’t be bothered to look up a kid’s name or what class he was in, Amile Jefferson was a junior that year by the way, that just hurt your own credibility.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Jefferson started yet only played 21 mpg. He contributed but they could have ran you and me out there and won.
Check what Allen did in the tourney because it was 4 ppg. I vividly remember either the final 4 game or title game where he had double digits and stepped up (he’s a turd)
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@BShark Bill gettin soft? Lol
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@BShark said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
Not enough tbh
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Jefferson started yet only played 21 mpg. He contributed but they could have ran you and me out there and won.
Check what Allen did in the tourney because it was 4 ppg. I vividly remember either the final 4 game or title game where he had double digits and stepped up (he’s a turd)
Now you’re changing the argument because the facts didn’t match up with your original point so now you have to move the goalposts. Freshmen absolutely helped Duke win, but they also don’t win that title without their upperclassmen so no, they couldn’t put you or me out there and still win.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Bill gettin soft? Lol
I think coming off the title he was definitely a bit soft in terms of axing non-KU level players.
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@BeddieKU23 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
Not enough tbh
Hard to expect too much more than that. I think it gets you to where we are accustom to with a decent bench.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@cragarhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread: McCullar might be looking at how offensively challenged KU could be next year and thinking that would hurt his chances of landing a two-way contract with someone.
I hadnt thought about it this way. Figured he is next up with Jalen and Gradey gone, and still has Juan to facilitate.
Was asking exact same q in other thread. You guys are on top of it already.
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I guess it will depend on the departures and who they can get.
KU has 2 1/2 starters coming back with Udeh the 1/2 since he is playing behind KJ.
Elmarko will be exciting but I also wonder about growing pains since he is ball dominant and will have to learn to play off Juan. I see it working since he will have the ball in his hands plenty even with Juan but it’s going to take time.
Zuby has promise as your 3rd big. That’s 4 guys I have trust in. You need 3 to 4 more.
The rest will never start here. Yikes
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@BeddieKU23 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
I guess it will depend on the departures and who they can get.
KU has 2 1/2 starters coming back with Udeh the 1/2 since he is playing behind KJ.
Elmarko will be exciting but I also wonder about growing pains since he is ball dominant and will have to learn to play off Juan. I see it working since he will have the ball in his hands plenty even with Juan but it’s going to take time.
Zuby has promise as your 3rd big. That’s 4 guys I have trust in. You need 3 to 4 more.
The rest will never start here. Yikes
So you don’t think top 40 recruit Chris Johnson ever starts for KU? As a freshman, I don’t see him starting, but after Harris leaves and Elmarko slides over to the 1, Chris Johnson is the guy who moves in the 2 spot. At least I assume that’s what the multi-year plan is for him.
I’m also not going to completely rule out Jamari McDowell starting eventually either as we’ve all seen several players with his profile and ranking start later on in their careers at KU under Self.
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When is the annul banquet?
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Sorry I meant Bobby, Joe, MJ.
I really think McDowell will be good here at some point. Really interested to see how he does this offseason because I could see him getting minutes but it’s too early to tell.
I’m not sold Chris will be mature enough to handle the coaching and his emotions on the court. It’s a huge concern. I’ll hope for the best. He didn’t exactly have a banner year at Montverde, playing PG on a stacked team. He didn’t start if I recall either. Probably a 2 guard here that can handle the ball like Self likes. He’s turnover prone as well. Thinking he’s going to be a bit of a project but if he puts it together I’ll be excited to see what happens.
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@BeddieKU23 If MJ comes back, I wouldn’t completely rule him out as a possible starter with his talent ceiling being very high.
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I see Harris at the pg, Adam’s at center. Elmarko starting sg…. I think we land 2 transfer guards. Both high level guys that start at the 3 and 4. Small potential our 2024 guy reclassifies and battles for the 4 spot…… udeh and zuby back up bigs……. Chris J and hopefully another transfer guard off the bench. Reality self will probably still have Bobby or yesfu back but they should both be gone… I’m pretty confident zach, cuffe will be gone. I don’t see mj rice upside. He’s strong but he’s not very laterally quick, he’s not fluid with the ball and seems awkward. Shot doesn’t look elite. I rather him transfer…… this team lost really bc of no depth at the guard. Bobby yesfu and mj rice were awful this year. One good bench guard would have changed KUs chances
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@dylans said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark It almost seems like you’d be better off recruiting college players than high schoolers. Take 5-6 transfers and 1-2 quality freshmen. No time for disappearing acts on the big stage. Let some other team develop the players, then poach what you want with offers of glory and NIL money that the little schools can’t touch. It’s the Wild West of the free agency period in college basketball. The ncaa has no idea what unregulated payments will do. Hint it’s not spread the wealth. The current big boys will only get more exclusive and the bottom feeders will get markedly worse.
I saw this somewhere, and find it to be true.
“There aren’t any pros in the transfer portal.”
That’s why you add HS guys. You aren’t poaching many guys with NBA potential. You can win without those guys, but it’s significantly harder… I also think you can add better bench guys through HS. Plus good transfer portal guys are twice as hard to get. The line is longer and the NIL more expensive.
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Do NOT rule out Udeh starting at the 5 next year and KJ coming off the bench. All I will say on the matter.
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@BShark said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
Do NOT rule out Udeh starting at the 5 next year and KJ coming off the bench. All I will say on the matter.
This would be the ideal development. But would be fine with KJ starting and Udeh off the bench. Ultimately I think that gets split 50-50. And you’ll see a few minutes a game with them on the floor together.
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Marcus Adams officially reclassing to 23.
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@BShark wow on Udeh
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To quote Clark Kellogg, they want more linth and strinth at the 5
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@Kcmatt7 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@dylans said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark It almost seems like you’d be better off recruiting college players than high schoolers. Take 5-6 transfers and 1-2 quality freshmen. No time for disappearing acts on the big stage. Let some other team develop the players, then poach what you want with offers of glory and NIL money that the little schools can’t touch. It’s the Wild West of the free agency period in college basketball. The ncaa has no idea what unregulated payments will do. Hint it’s not spread the wealth. The current big boys will only get more exclusive and the bottom feeders will get markedly worse.
I saw this somewhere, and find it to be true.
“There aren’t any pros in the transfer portal.”
That’s why you add HS guys. You aren’t poaching many guys with NBA potential. You can win without those guys, but it’s significantly harder… I also think you can add better bench guys through HS. Plus good transfer portal guys are twice as hard to get. The line is longer and the NIL more expensive.
Yes and no on that quote. There’s absolutely NBA potential in the portal. It’s usually guys like Jalen Wilson (obviously I know he’s not a transfer), Kevin McCullar, or a Quentin Grimes that have some defects in their game that by spending another year in school, whether their original school or elsewhere, can absolutely make them draftable players. You also have players moving up from low and mid majors to boost their visibility and get on NBA radars.
I’m not going to say those players are plentiful each year because they’re not, but there’s usually a few players like that each season in the portal.
If that quote is supposed to mean nobody with NBA potential in that specific draft is going to be in the portal, then I’ll agree with that.
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Can’t see this full time, Udeh is a walking foul
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@FarmerJayhawk lol
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@BeddieKU23 moving foul
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@BeddieKU23 I think as long as Zuby stays, the 5 spot has the depth to handle Udeh starting and getting as many minutes as his 5 fouls will allow.
Also fully expect both of those guys to make massive strides this off-season.
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Like whatever strides the staff expected from Zach I expect to actually happen from Udeh and Zuby
