KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread
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@Crimsonorblue22 covid year? Neither is out of eligibility
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4 yrs, one redshirt, j will
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@Crimsonorblue22 Jwil could stay for 2 more years if I’m not mistaken. He broke his leg and could get a medical redshirt for it and add in a Covid year(listed as a junior). Kevin could have a extra year with Covid.
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@Crimsonorblue22 read your mind huh
Bill with their talent (not this year) would have 3-5 titles heck he should have that here.
We should get the best players these next 4-7 years if Bill is here and yet Duke and uk and unc still load up…it’s pathetic
We’ve played them in champions classic and only once have we had the better athletes
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@kuballin10 if BS had UKs, Baylor’s or Texas’ rosters he’s cutting down the nets this season.
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@cragarhawk I’d assume they will make say $2-3m overseas versus say $150k-$300k here?
I may be off on numbers but I’d guess go make pro money now is more important
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@kjayhawks exactly that’s my point so get out and recruit those type of athletes
Bill changed to 4 out now needs to change who he recruits
Can’t remember who said it whether here or 247 but Self was watching some high schools studs and honed in on Tyus Jones and how he controls the game. Give me the best player and make him great not some solid guy who isn’t the best.
Juan was great today but man we lacked big shots from a remy like last year to save us during droughts. Juan hit biggest one to get us to 54 but missing free throws and boarding defensively is why we lost
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Relying on OAD talent is a recipe for Tournament disaster. In the portal era it’s better to get guys with experience. Maybe the they aren’t NBA guys exactly but they’ll win you a gazillion games. Even Cal’s title team had experience. Look at the last 15 years, not a lot of freshmen led teams won. You need veterans who know how to play together and have won.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@cragarhawk I’d assume they will make say $2-3m overseas versus say $150k-$300k here?
I may be off on numbers but I’d guess go make pro money now is more important
$2 million would be a top 6 salary in Europe. $3 million would be top 3 in Europe. Unless you’re a star player, Americans playing European basketball are making 6 figures if they’re in a top league (Spain, Turkey, France, Italy, Israel) and 5 figures if you’re in a smaller league or second division in a higher paying country.
There’s a reason players hang around in G-League as long as possible because that’s better paying than Europe is for at least 95% of players where that’s an option.
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@FarmerJayhawk yeah my post is in reference to any talent whether via portal or high school
Mccullar was good I’d rather had Council and Kendric heck or any big that was halfway capable of catching a pass and making a post move (no offense to Ernest he just is a year away)
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@Texas-Hawk-10 so by that thought process Kevin should come back….
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@cragarhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
Why are JWil and Kev definitively gone is my question? Neither has to go. Neither is ready to go. Both will play most likely overseas. I guess this part I just don’t understand other than they’ve said they are going. But… why
Wilson is a projected late 1st/early 2nd round pick. This is the highest his stock will likely. If he does sneak into the 1st round, a 1st round contract is guaranteed money for at least 2 years. Even if Wilson is pick number 30, that’s about $4.5 million guaranteed which is more than he would make in Europe in several years.
McCullar might be looking at how offensively challenged KU could be next year and thinking that would hurt his chances of landing a two-way contract with someone.
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@kuballin10 mine was too. All the champs from the last decade+ had experienced guys that knew how to play together. Fit and chemistry are super important. The pattern isn’t hard to deduce there. The team with the most raw talent almost never wins it all.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 that actually provides some insight. I didn’t realize a late first round/early second round guy was guaranteed that much $$ . Is that something new? I don’t think JWil goes 1st round at all. But maybe early to mid 2nd. But still if it pays like that, no question. Go get the dollars while he can cause he’s most likely a euro league within a couple years. As much as i admire him that just seems like the ceiling
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 so by that thought process Kevin should come back….
Depends on his though process. He’s generally ranked in the 65-75 range on a lot of mock drafts sites for a possible late pick depending on need and combine performance. Even if he’s not drafted, players in the ranger usually end up signing two-way contracts in the G-League. A two-way contract is half the rookie minimum salary which would mean a little over $500k if McCullar signed a two-way deal.
That’s more than he’d make in NIL next season and with KU potentially taking a step back next season and potentially being a team that struggles to score, this might be a case of McCullar leaving when his draft stock is at its highest, even if that highest isn’t being drafted. That’s essentially the situation Wayne Selden was in when he left after his junior year.
$500k for a two-way contract looks like the most probable outcome for McCullar at this point which is also most likely his highest paying option.
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@kuballin10 you really are a coach cal guy, no coaching just get the studs. No chemistry, every man for himself. I can tell u like those kind of players, me kinds of guys over team!
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@Crimsonorblue22 why is it one way or the other? Who is to say you can’t go get talent and coach them? We know we have a Coach. Why can’t talent be the missing ingredient? May not need the one and done types. But surely better talent provides better ceiling. Language often referred to by Self and staff.
And also. CAL can coach. Don’t be fooled
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Cause Self doesn’t want to be a one and done factory!
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@FarmerJayhawk gotta have both but the studs or horses gotta be the athletes
Look at Bama they would prove this wrong unless you count quinerly
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@Crimsonorblue22 all coaches want those type athletes. No ifs, ands, or butts
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@Crimsonorblue22 do you even bother to read the threads or just throw out obnoxious preconceived thoughts to my posts?
Farmer is literally replying as we go back and forth and you chime in adding nothing to the convo but taking a shot at me. Solid
To answer this you gotta have both especially Self. He needs upper class man with some young studs. You need the best players whether they are freshman (see Brandon miller or Houston’s Walker) or through portal or whatever. Most 3-4 year guys are there for a reason and not the best players versus the 1 and domes but a team of 1 and dones doesn’t always winbthe title like @FarmerJayhawk said. Dukes with tyus Jones, jahlil okafor, Grayson Allen and Justise Winslow do prove that wrong.
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@FarmerJayhawk The Duke team I mentioned challenges that, Nova was the most talented between them and unc a few years back but yes, the talent isn’t just all freshman it’s a mix of guys
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@cragarhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 that actually provides some insight. I didn’t realize a late first round/early second round guy was guaranteed that much $$ . Is that something new? I don’t think JWil goes 1st round at all. But maybe early to mid 2nd. But still if it pays like that, no question. Go get the dollars while he can cause he’s most likely a euro league within a couple years. As much as i admire him that just seems like the ceiling
All 1st round draft picks sign 4 year contracts. The first 2 years are fully guaranteed and years 3 and 4 are team options. Second round picks are not necessarily fully guaranteed and only have to be the rookie minimum which is a little over $1 million. Early second round picks usually get at least 1 year guaranteed, but not for $2+ million.
There are also quite a few reputable sites that have Jalen going in the 25-35 range. Combine showing and interviews will likely be the biggest determining factor in Jalen being able to sneak into the end of the 1st round.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 great for him if he can do it. He definitely should. The reward is certainly over the risk. His stock is not apt to improve alot, maybe just a lil but playing the “if” game on getting hurt, etc
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@FarmerJayhawk The Duke team I mentioned challenges that, Nova was the most talented between them and unc a few years back but yes, the talent isn’t just all freshman it’s a mix of guys
Duke in 2015 had Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Marshall Plumlee, and Matt Jones as rotation players. That’s half of the rotation after Rasheed Sulaimon left the team. Over half, if count him the first half of the season. Cook was a senior and Jefferson and Plumlee were juniors. That team had experience.
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@kuballin10 I’ll throw some more out there! Brandon miller and our crowd would love tripper Allen! R u serious? We go for dtae, Svi Josh Jackson, b rush, Wiggs, embiid, Grady Dick. Oubre! Cole Aldrich. Sherron. Guys that don’t need an armed guard and don’t trip people or need a therapist. KU fans aren’t big on Duke! Perfect for you though. They got to do their own research on the Zion debacle. Cleared themselves! Forgot Frank!
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@kuballin10 it’s one example in the almost 20 years of the OAD era.
Nova had some talented dudes but they all stayed multiple years and played together. That’s how you build it. Jay didn’t really shoot for the can’t miss 5* guys. He got players with traits he could develop. He redshirted a lot of guys too. So I think that makes my point.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 I’ll throw some more out there! Brandon miller and our crowd would love tripper Allen! R u serious? We go for dtae, Svi Josh Jackson, b rush, Wiggs, embiid, Grady Dick. Oubre! Cole Aldrich. Sherron. Guys that don’t need an armed guard and don’t trip people or need a therapist. KU fans aren’t big on Duke! Perfect for you though. They got to do their own research on the Zion debacle. Cleared themselves!
Josh Jackson was a head case and so were the Morris twins early on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Josh was shaky, didn’t mention the twins.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@wissox Gradey and Kevin are 100% gone. Cuffe and Cam also out the door. TBD on the others but my guess is Zach and Yesufu are gone as well.
This is a very good guess. MJ and Joe have decisions to make. Could see Joe wanting to go to a level where he gets to shine a bit more.
If 4 leave it lets you bring in two starter level guys. Then boom, contender again.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Josh Jackson had legal issues here… Brannen Green. LeGerald Vick. Carlton Bragg.
Morris Twins nearly beat a guy to death.
KU has their own issues with players.
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We could argue raw talent vs experience vs whatever all day.
What KU lacked this year was any semblance of depth. Period.
KU needs to have 7 or 8 guys who can play basketball at this level. Idc if they are freshman or seniors. But this year was honestly unacceptable. The transfer portal and NIL should almost guarantee KU has 7 dudes who can play. We didn’t this year, and I felt like it cost us big time.
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@Kcmatt7 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
We could argue raw talent vs experience vs whatever all day.
What KU lacked this year was any semblance of depth. Period.
KU needs to have 7 or 8 guys who can play basketball at this level. Idc if they are freshman or seniors. But this year was honestly unacceptable. The transfer portal and NIL should almost guarantee KU has 7 dudes who can play. We didn’t this year, and I felt like it cost us big time.
Really unfortunate. Part of it is on Bill. He kept Cam and Cuffe around after last year. If you replace them with two other guys that might contribute, it just increases the chance of having some decent guys on the bench. This ended up being important because Zach and Bob did not develop like the staff would have hoped. Zach was expected to start. It’s fairly rare that the staff misses that badly, to be quite honest.
So I think they definitely expected to have a more playable bench this year. It didn’t work out. Hopefully Bill is ready to cut loose the dead weight. It’s a business and “contracts” with players are year to year more than ever now.
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@BShark It almost seems like you’d be better off recruiting college players than high schoolers. Take 5-6 transfers and 1-2 quality freshmen. No time for disappearing acts on the big stage. Let some other team develop the players, then poach what you want with offers of glory and NIL money that the little schools can’t touch. It’s the Wild West of the free agency period in college basketball. The ncaa has no idea what unregulated payments will do. Hint it’s not spread the wealth. The current big boys will only get more exclusive and the bottom feeders will get markedly worse.
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@dylans We are already seeing a bit of a shift to this with big programs. Bill has filled in the gaps as needed. Got his main guy in Kevin to fill a starting spot this year. Big class the year before with two real contributors on the title team. I’m counting JCL, who could have played more but was serviceable when he did. As 8th guys go, he was good. This year I feel like we need two starters, and that Self gets it done.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
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@Crimsonorblue22 Id rather win with high character guys but you can’t always pick that
Every guy you listed I love way more than miller and allen
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@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
That was also the last time it happened. More importantly KU doesn’t have the resources to pull that kind of class (3 top 10 type guys) plus you need the class to actually be good which is no guarantee as we saw this year. Outside of a few guys this year was devoid of elite play from FR.
KU tried very hard to get Jones and Okafor. Off the record, Jones may have been Bill’s most wanted PG recruit ever. Duke gonna Duke though.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 you can’t be serious when none of those guys played big minutes. Having experience with a senior connor Teahan or Amir Jefferson who hardly play is not “experience”
Can’t believe you even attempted to argue that as 4 true freshman for Duke dominated and won it all
Maybe you should actually go look at the numbers for that team and get back to me. That team had an 8 man rotation after Rasheed Sulaimon left. I don’t know about you, but starting 2/3 of the games and averaging 21 minutes per game doesn’t sound like hardly playing, which is what Amile Jefferson played. I don’t know what your threshold for hardly playing is, but if being a starter and playing over half a game isn’t big minutes, then you have a very different standard than anyone else.
If you want to argue that Mason Plumlee didn’t play big minutes, that’s fine, but he was a rotation player playing just under 10 minutes per game. That also means you can’t claim Grayson Allen played and dominated when he averaged less minutes than Plumlee and only averaged 4 ppg.
But since you couldn’t be bothered to look up a kid’s name or what class he was in, Amile Jefferson was a junior that year by the way, that just hurt your own credibility.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Jefferson started yet only played 21 mpg. He contributed but they could have ran you and me out there and won.
Check what Allen did in the tourney because it was 4 ppg. I vividly remember either the final 4 game or title game where he had double digits and stepped up (he’s a turd)
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@BShark Bill gettin soft? Lol
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@BShark said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
Not enough tbh
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Jefferson started yet only played 21 mpg. He contributed but they could have ran you and me out there and won.
Check what Allen did in the tourney because it was 4 ppg. I vividly remember either the final 4 game or title game where he had double digits and stepped up (he’s a turd)
Now you’re changing the argument because the facts didn’t match up with your original point so now you have to move the goalposts. Freshmen absolutely helped Duke win, but they also don’t win that title without their upperclassmen so no, they couldn’t put you or me out there and still win.
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@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Bill gettin soft? Lol
I think coming off the title he was definitely a bit soft in terms of axing non-KU level players.
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@BeddieKU23 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@kuballin10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@BShark Portal should be Bill’s favorite thing. Proven d1 experience that can come here right away and pick it up quick
Yeah I think we add two starter level guys this offseason.
Not enough tbh
Hard to expect too much more than that. I think it gets you to where we are accustom to with a decent bench.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
@cragarhawk said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread: McCullar might be looking at how offensively challenged KU could be next year and thinking that would hurt his chances of landing a two-way contract with someone.
I hadnt thought about it this way. Figured he is next up with Jalen and Gradey gone, and still has Juan to facilitate.
Was asking exact same q in other thread. You guys are on top of it already.
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I guess it will depend on the departures and who they can get.
KU has 2 1/2 starters coming back with Udeh the 1/2 since he is playing behind KJ.
Elmarko will be exciting but I also wonder about growing pains since he is ball dominant and will have to learn to play off Juan. I see it working since he will have the ball in his hands plenty even with Juan but it’s going to take time.
Zuby has promise as your 3rd big. That’s 4 guys I have trust in. You need 3 to 4 more.
The rest will never start here. Yikes
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@BeddieKU23 said in KU Offseason Chef Bill Cooking Thread:
I guess it will depend on the departures and who they can get.
KU has 2 1/2 starters coming back with Udeh the 1/2 since he is playing behind KJ.
Elmarko will be exciting but I also wonder about growing pains since he is ball dominant and will have to learn to play off Juan. I see it working since he will have the ball in his hands plenty even with Juan but it’s going to take time.
Zuby has promise as your 3rd big. That’s 4 guys I have trust in. You need 3 to 4 more.
The rest will never start here. Yikes
So you don’t think top 40 recruit Chris Johnson ever starts for KU? As a freshman, I don’t see him starting, but after Harris leaves and Elmarko slides over to the 1, Chris Johnson is the guy who moves in the 2 spot. At least I assume that’s what the multi-year plan is for him.
I’m also not going to completely rule out Jamari McDowell starting eventually either as we’ve all seen several players with his profile and ranking start later on in their careers at KU under Self.
