Other games
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@BeddieKU23 said in Other games:
If there is anything that would make Gradey think twice (and its a longshot at best), it’s the fact the 2024 draft class could be a historically bad one. A lot will change in 12 months from now but its already being talked about in this way.
Still not worth it because 2023 is very weak as well beyond the top 3.
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You are right… and I am projecting my concepts onto his decision. But it is a general issue he has to address… what his college experience is worth to him. Obviously, my concepts are unique to me.
Your comment about basketball being business is spot on. It is definitely a business decision. But it is a life decision, too, which does involve lifestyle. For example… I have an investment adviser. He helps me with investment decisions… but he does it within my lifestyle desires. I picked him because he told me from the beginning he wanted to know me as a person before helping me make business decisions. I know I stepped out on a ledge here with this topic. I did so to emphasize his decisions now are quality of life, too. You were wise to emphasize the business aspect because that is a huge part of this decision, too. Oh and… business/$$$ is obviously piercing into lifestyle, too!
I don’t think Christian was in the same boat. First… he was able to get multiple seasons under his belt to get more of the “Jayhawk experience.” He tested the waters first and knew what he had to work on and he did. He wasn’t near at this level of marketability in the NBA during his freshman year. And… he left after we won a title! He did get the full Jayhawk experience and left while probably peaking his marketability. I definitely think he should have gone when he did!
Which gets to… let’s say Gradey wants to have the full Jayhawk experience. I think we can all agree if we win it again this year, that will be accomplished. But what if we only make it to the Elite 8? What if we fizzle out after the Sweet 16? Does he leave with a stale taste in his mouth? So the guy that grew up wearing crimson/blue now leaves on a sad note and leaves no real legacy at KU? Someone mentioned JoJo… JoJo really didn’t leave a legacy at KU. But he was an African man we stole out of Florida who also probably had more financial needs and possibly immigration needs. Even though he left KU banged up and with a failed March, I didn’t lose a blink of sleep with him leaving because he didn’t have crimson/blue in his blood.
Guess the question with Gradey is… how much does he value his KU legacy?
Second question… what is the anticipated difference in his bottom financial line if he leaves this year versus next year? I think that can only be properly assessed by a good agent who puts players’ interests above their own.
Is it possible he comes out better financially by waiting another year? I agree the draft will be more competitive next year. Does that mean Gradey doesn’t keep up by improving enough to match the higher competition in next year’s draft? This is an area I feel very strongly about. From what I have seen him do this year and improve I see him making monster leaps next year. I’m not concerned with him keeping up with a better draft.
Concerning injury risks… I see it being higher if he goes early. He will be thrown into long seasons against tougher players playing more aggressively. I don’t see it being so different from the NFL and college players leaving early. Gradey’s body is developing… not only from working out. His core strength is also determined by his age. I’d like to see stats on how many rookies get hurt during their first year in the league.
BTW: I appreciate developing depth in this discussion. Thank you for keeping it challenging!
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@drgnslayr Braun did test the waters after his sophomore year and the feedback he got was that he wasn’t good enough to be drafted by the NBA at that point which is why he came back. As soon as Braun received the feedback that he would be drafted, even if he wasn’t a lock to be a 1st round pick, he still left despite knowing 2023 would be a weaker draft than 2022 and having a chance to become a lottery pick. It’s the same reason Jalen Wilson is still here, his feedback the last 2 years was that he wasn’t good enough for the NBA. Gradey won’t get that feedback. He’s going to get the feedback that he will be a lottery pick and most likely a top 10 pick.
There’s a non zero chance Gradey hurts his draft stock by coming back next season due to injury, lack of further development, the NCAA dropping a hammer on KU, KU being significantly worse team next season.
Even if Dick gets injured in the NBA next season due to the length of the season, that’s an adjustment that every college to NBA player goes through when they they transition from playing 2 games a week for 5 months to playing 3-4 games per week for close to 7 months. The NBA also has better full time health care and trainers than college programs do that will help Gradey make that adjustment. I’d personally rather make that transition and adjustment knowing I have a guaranteed $20-30 million coming my way.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Other games:
@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Even without my selfish thoughts about getting him back…
Maybe I’m just really KU and most of the players just see it as an opportunity to go pro.
When I was at KU I had access to the floor at AFH most mornings and I took it. There wasn’t enough NBA money worth what I would have experienced wearing the uniform and having that experience.
It’s all about the $$$ now. That is all you can say. An extra year to possibly make more. Puke!
You are projecting your priorities onto Gradey when you’re not in his position. It’s easy for all of us who are alums and weren’t high level athletes with pro sports level potential to tell someone to hang around and enjoy the college experience because none of us were HS POY’s, none of us were McDonald’s All-Americans, none of us were 5 star recruits, none of were projected lottery picks.
Basketball is a business and these players make business decisions about their futures. So Gradey Dick is going to make a business decision after this season that getting a guaranteed $20-30 million on a rookie contract is life changing money, even for someone who comes from a financially stable background.
Christian Braun grew up a die hard Jayhawk fan too and that still wasn’t enough to get him to come back for his senior season once he was developed enough to be an NBA prospect, and he was never a potential lottery pick. I use Braun as the example because he grew up a die hard KU fan like Gradey and came from a financially stable background like Gradey amd still made a business decision.
Just to be clear, you are ALSO projecting your priorities onto Gradey when you are not in his position. You don’t know if the business and money are graders priorities any more than @drgnslayr knows his commitment to having a legacy as a jayhawk. If anything, @drgnslayr has more of an idea based on everything we’ve heard Gradey himself say. He’s talked about wanting to win a championship, wanting to leave his mark on the program. We’ve never heard him talk about finances or business as a motivating factor in any of his decision making.
You naught be right about making a business decision at the end of the year but he could just as easily make a decision based on other factors.
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Happy we are going this deep into something… it’s been tough to go deep when we have such a good team that responds well to coaching, has a great attitude, and for most of the year has good energy on the court. Self nailed it by calling this team overachievers.
Think back on years when we had so much to complain about and discuss deeply!
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I’m strictly stating some ideas only. Not trying to say “my way or the highway.” I usually agree with @Texas-Hawk-10 and do so in most of above.
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@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Happy we are going this deep into something… it’s been tough to go deep when we have such a good team that responds well to coaching, has a great attitude, and for most of the year has good energy on the court. Self nailed it by calling this team overachievers.
Think back on years when we had so much to complain about and discuss deeply!
Good point. And honestly I think Gradey and Kevin are the biggest reasons for this. They are the newcomers. They are the ones supposed to be having adjustment issues. Supposed to be struggling to figure out what exactly it takes to be successful within a bill self coached team. But they seemed to just “get it” right away.
Our only real gripe early was the 5 position vacancy. But KJ stepped up SO big rattling of a dozen straight double digit scoring games that it was hard to complain about that anymore.
The bench has been suspect, but Ernest seems to have figured it out enough to give us 10-15 a game.
I thought Rice would be a talking point all year but he’s never really showed enough for anyone to think he needs to be getting big minutes.
Every issue that pops up seems to be solved relatively quickly. Seems like a good group of coachable guys. Credit to all of them but big props to Wilson and Harris for leading this team down the right path. They’ve walked it before so maybe it’s just easier this time…
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@benshawks08 said in Other games:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Other games:
@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Even without my selfish thoughts about getting him back…
Maybe I’m just really KU and most of the players just see it as an opportunity to go pro.
When I was at KU I had access to the floor at AFH most mornings and I took it. There wasn’t enough NBA money worth what I would have experienced wearing the uniform and having that experience.
It’s all about the $$$ now. That is all you can say. An extra year to possibly make more. Puke!
You are projecting your priorities onto Gradey when you’re not in his position. It’s easy for all of us who are alums and weren’t high level athletes with pro sports level potential to tell someone to hang around and enjoy the college experience because none of us were HS POY’s, none of us were McDonald’s All-Americans, none of us were 5 star recruits, none of were projected lottery picks.
Basketball is a business and these players make business decisions about their futures. So Gradey Dick is going to make a business decision after this season that getting a guaranteed $20-30 million on a rookie contract is life changing money, even for someone who comes from a financially stable background.
Christian Braun grew up a die hard Jayhawk fan too and that still wasn’t enough to get him to come back for his senior season once he was developed enough to be an NBA prospect, and he was never a potential lottery pick. I use Braun as the example because he grew up a die hard KU fan like Gradey and came from a financially stable background like Gradey amd still made a business decision.
Just to be clear, you are ALSO projecting your priorities onto Gradey when you are not in his position. You don’t know if the business and money are graders priorities any more than @drgnslayr knows his commitment to having a legacy as a jayhawk. If anything, @drgnslayr has more of an idea based on everything we’ve heard Gradey himself say. He’s talked about wanting to win a championship, wanting to leave his mark on the program. We’ve never heard him talk about finances or business as a motivating factor in any of his decision making.
You naught be right about making a business decision at the end of the year but he could just as easily make a decision based on other factors.
I’m actually not projecting my priorities onto Gradey. I’m looking at the trends of what history says based on what hundreds of other people in Gradey’s position have done in the past. People in Gradey’s position who are already projected lottery picks rarely maintain, let alone improve their draft stock by returning to school for another year which is why it’s very rare for a player in that position to return to school.
Being a lottery pick means whatever team drafts or trades for Dick will have a significant financial incentive in helping Gradey continue his development as a player. If he returns and slips to the second round, that financial incentive is gone because a team no longer has to give Gradey a guaranteed contract and doesn’t have the same financial incentive to maximize the chances of development.
My personal opinion is that I’d love to see Gradey back because his scoring abilities would be a huge asset to a team that’s going to enter the off season with major question marks in that area next season, even more than this past off season. And Gradey is someone that could conceivably average 20+ next season because he’d have to carry the scoring load next season. If he succeeded in that, he very well could be a top 5 pick. But history says that’s not likely what would end happening though.
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Lots of discussion in here about the lack of bench minutes in games. I think @Texas-Hawk-10 believed/believes our bench needs more PT. So do I. But I also understood why Self pushed his main 5 so hard… so they would gel into something special.
Hard to blame bench when they don’t get minutes to grow into roles.
I feel like we are peaking at the right time… Still some games to lift up even higher.
Still wish we would get more out of our bench. Not sure about Rice. I know injuries hampered him this year. He shows very short sparks of hope. He definitely has some strength behind him which has been shown when he fights opponents for the ball on rebounds and loose balls. But he still seems out of rhythm out there and I think he just needs more PT to establish his game.
Ernest is becoming a beast! His arms are long and his hands are quick and strong… and his mind sees things and anticipates. It wouldn’t surprise me if he saved us from a loss moving forward this year! Love how he changes the game when replacing KJ.
I think our guys now realize the way to change a game positively is to focus hardest on defense and then our defense will help our offense… specifically on run outs. Rebounding is important, too, and I just lump that into our defense because we don’t have defensive success without getting stops.
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@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Foolish to come back? Come on… all about the $$$ only? So it sucks to have the college experience and more important to buy a house next year in a city somewhere you’ve never been and blend into a pro team on the bench?
All because you may (or may not) enrich your bank account a bit more in the long run? You’ll bank $320 mil over your life instead of only $310 mil?
It’s such a childish, frightening way to consider your life choices.
I learned my lesson with Embiid. Braun was another superfan of the program I just knew would come back. My batting avg not too good on these. It wouldn’t be unheard of for Gradey to come back, but passing on a lottery selection would be too tall an order, me thinks. I would like to pleasantly surprised if he did, but I seriously doubt he does return.
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I’m not sure my batting average on guessing who comes back is .500.
But heck, in the majors, anything over .300 makes you an all-star! lol
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It wouldn’t surprise me if Gradey has the toughest decision on whether to go than any player we have ever had.
I feel like he wants “legacy status” but because of his performance, the league will make it really tough to come back.
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@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Lots of discussion in here about the lack of bench minutes in games. I think @Texas-Hawk-10 believed/believes our bench needs more PT. So do I. But I also understood why Self pushed his main 5 so hard… so they would gel into something special.
Hard to blame bench when they don’t get minutes to grow into roles.
I feel like we are peaking at the right time… Still some games to lift up even higher.
Still wish we would get more out of our bench. Not sure about Rice. I know injuries hampered him this year. He shows very short sparks of hope. He definitely has some strength behind him which has been shown when he fights opponents for the ball on rebounds and loose balls. But he still seems out of rhythm out there and I think he just needs more PT to establish his game.
Ernest is becoming a beast! His arms are long and his hands are quick and strong… and his mind sees things and anticipates. It wouldn’t surprise me if he saved us from a loss moving forward this year! Love how he changes the game when replacing KJ.
I think our guys now realize the way to change a game positively is to focus hardest on defense and then our defense will help our offense… specifically on run outs. Rebounding is important, too, and I just lump that into our defense because we don’t have defensive success without getting stops.
Agree on the defense. My favorite nugget was hearing that Jalen has taken to telling the guys “THEY DONT SCORE AGAIN” in pivotal moments.
Listening to the Mitch and teahan podcast where they brought on ochai was cool. Ochai talked about how that team would get into the mindset that “not even God could score on us” for a few key possessions.
With Kev, Juan and KJ, this team could still get there.
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Your last post is spot on.
I just don’t think Gradey fits the typical mold. I’ve never seen a guy adjust his game like he has in his first year.
Next year should be perfect for him to be counted on for points and to have teams hit him with challenges like double-teams and weakside help.
His next leap will mean he becomes super efficient at hitting shots while being grill guarded. When he makes that step in college it isn’t much of a leap in the pros to do the same thing.
He’s starting to get it as in almost every game now he shows sweet moves to create scoring space. His moves look almost as slick, effortless, and smooth as his shot. His moves now are strictly finesse… put some strength behind him and WATCH OUT!
It was great to hear Self compliment him on his shot and put him into his own category for a freshman. He can soon extend that compliment to include any past player he has ever coached!
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It’s easy to compare Gradey’s game with several pro players. I like the Klay comparison.
Strangely… as a college player… I keep connecting his game to Larry Bird, even though their games so differed. I’m still trying to figure out why my tuition is thinking this way. I caught 10-15 of Larry’s college games live and courtside.
Maybe it’s when we are seeing Gradey pull off a quick, effortless move on a defender and score. Bird used to do that. He made it look like he wasn’t even trying. The ease in which Gradey step-hooks around a defender to get shooting space… or follows his shot for a putback… or comes in on a rebound and tips out to other guys… even some of his drive finishes at the rim where the ball leaves his hands before the defender jumps.
I’m figuring this thought out while I write… maybe the connection to Bird is… the game has slowed down for him and he’s seeing moves ahead of defenders.
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@drgnslayr Shot form is probably a big reason for the Bird comp. Dick has that high overhead release on his shot that Bird had so that might be where it comes from.
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I’m figuring it out right now.
I think I have it figured out.
Bird used to make defenders look dumb and incapable.
Gradey is starting to do that to defenders.
lol
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@drgnslayr said in Other games:
Lots of discussion in here about the lack of bench minutes in games. I think @Texas-Hawk-10 believed/believes our bench needs more PT. So do I. But I also understood why Self pushed his main 5 so hard… so they would gel into something special.
Hard to blame bench when they don’t get minutes to grow into roles.
I feel like we are peaking at the right time… Still some games to lift up even higher.
Still wish we would get more out of our bench. Not sure about Rice. I know injuries hampered him this year. He shows very short sparks of hope. He definitely has some strength behind him which has been shown when he fights opponents for the ball on rebounds and loose balls. But he still seems out of rhythm out there and I think he just needs more PT to establish his game.
Ernest is becoming a beast! His arms are long and his hands are quick and strong… and his mind sees things and anticipates. It wouldn’t surprise me if he saved us from a loss moving forward this year! Love how he changes the game when replacing KJ.
I think our guys now realize the way to change a game positively is to focus hardest on defense and then our defense will help our offense… specifically on run outs. Rebounding is important, too, and I just lump that into our defense because we don’t have defensive success without getting stops.
Heard some stats on Udeh - - - - in the 22 games Udeh has play he has 14 blocks ( which when you consider the first few games he played in wasn’t very many minutes ) - - -so 14 blocks is pretty good. - -Think about this I’ve heard both - -Heard Udeh has a 7’4 wingspan - -then I heard that he has a 7’2 wispan either way that’s monster wing span. They put in perspective today saying look at it this way Shaq is 7’2 - so his wingspan is as wide aas Suaq tall ---- crazy. - Then the other stat that is pretty dam good for a big man in his 22 games he has 17 steals is what they said - -crazy good
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Even if Dick is not a lottery pick he will in all likelihood be a 1st rd selection. That=guaranteed contract.
The chances of getting hurt in his rookie year are irrelevant. Getting hurt as a KU soph could destroy his career. I hate it, but leaving is a no-brainer, especially with the NCAA trying to figure out how to take over the NIL crap. (We know the NCAA changing anything is always with the goal of maximizing their own revenues. Players’ NIL could be severely reduced pending time-consuming judicial decisions otherwise.)
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@mayjay said in Other games:
Even if Dick is not a lottery pick he will in all likelihood be a 1st rd selection. That=guaranteed contract.
The chances of getting hurt in his rookie year are irrelevant. Getting hurt as a KU soph could destroy his career. I hate it, but leaving is a no-brainer, especially with the NCAA trying to figure out how to take over the NIL crap. (We know the NCAA changing anything is always with the goal of maximizing their own revenues. Players’ NIL could be severely reduced pending time-consuming judicial decisions otherwise.)
What I’ve been trying to say.he is for sure 1st round - -think 1st ten picks are lottery right ? - -If it is - he will for sure be lottery. - If not and still 1st round pick then he has a guaranteed contract.
He takes that chance comes back for another year - like you say he gets hurt it very easily could ruin his NBA career his future, Why would you take that chance when you know you have a guaranteed contract , no matter how much you like College life- - just a no brainer, If he is a lottery pick or 1st round - -would lay anything that Coach would tell him to go - just like JO , Jo - - Jo , jo wanted to come back but Coach said no - -your not doing any good here talking about his career. - Grady is gonna do well in the NBA
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@jayballer67 The lottery is every team that doesn’t make the playoffs so 14 teams are in the lottery.
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After reading this thread it has become obvious for all our best interests we need Tonya Harding to Brandon Rush Gradey for us this off-season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Other games:
@jayballer67 The lottery is every team that doesn’t make the playoffs so 14 teams are in the lottery.
oh , ok - - so then I feel he for sure is lottery pick
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Can’t believe that a league starting their Conference tourney this coming week. Sun Belt has their tourney next week - They talking they think Louisiana rajun Cajuns win their tourney
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I sure hope Baylor plays as well today as they did against KU last weekend. The Baylor guards didn’t have the same energy in Manhattan.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 spot on my friend. If you are a projected first rounder and/or lottery pick it’s too risky to come back. I think this years class is down on talent and think Gradey could go in the lottery. I will support Gradey regardless of his decision, I feel like that is our job as fans. We don’t know his situation or what he wants.
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Boy Texas Tech & TCU in a real good game - - back and forth. Texas Tech just went up by one with 1:49 to go
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Lampkin not playing
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been a great game. haymakers after haymakers…
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- Miles with the flush - - TCU up one with like 23 seconds to go - - - Tech steals ball Harom scores Tech up one with 12.1 on go - -TCU ball - – -Tech time out - -7.5 to go
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@Jethro said in Other games:
been a great game. haymakers after haymakers…
great game to watch - -Miles 24 points
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Dam foul. - - 4.5 - think TCu might of just won
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I almost think TCU looks better with Lampkin out. They seem quicker.
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@Jethro said in Other games:
I almost think TCU looks better with Lampkin out. They seem quicker.
welp that does it for any Tech chances
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Ou beats the Clones on the road. Looks like they and Tech are headed to the NIT.
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@Jethro said in Other games:
Ou beats the Clones on the road. Looks like they and Tech are headed to the NIT.
OU & TECH to NIT
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Anyone watching this Iowa vs MSU game. Iowa hit 5 straight 3s after trailing by 13 in the final 1:34 to send it to OT
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@kjayhawks said in Other games:
Anyone watching this Iowa vs MSU game. Iowa hit 5 straight 3s after trailing by 13 in the final 1:34 to send it to OT
ya they causing me to miss the baylor game
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Baylor sucks
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We apparently broke Baylor Wow we may have to win out to win this conference
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@kjayhawks said in Other games:
We apparently broke Baylor Wow we may have to win out to win this conference
ya just take care of business ourself. - -You want something done , do it yourself
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Boy Michigan State folded like a cheap suit
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Jesus is Baylor broken? We broke Baylor didn’t we?
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@cragarhawk said in Other games:
Jesus is Baylor broken? We broke Baylor didn’t we?
Hang on Baylor showing signs of life - - long ways to go
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It’s like Scott Drew invents ways for me to dislike him lol
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Texas starts out 18-4 run - now Baylor 17-5 run
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That’s a terrible call that was a flop
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Wow ref show
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