ISU Game Thread
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@FarmerJayhawk how about auburn?
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@FarmerJayhawk how about us for the last two years?
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@kuballin10 they’re good. Do you want me to say they suck?
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@kuballin10 Yes. I’m serious. Very Serious. You’ve been wrong about everything, so I feel pretty good about my position. I’ll catch up with you after we beat ISU by 20 in Ames. In the meantime, enjoy your SEC games
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@kuballin10 we’re 30 spots higher on defense in KenPom. Also please point to where I said we were playing good defense. Everyone knows Bama can’t guard anybody. Ffs they lost to Missouri
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@kuballin10 12 pts tonight
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Night all. Stay safe
RCJH
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Rock Chalk!
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@FarmerJayhawk once we’ve finished the big 12 tourney we can talk about Kenpom.
In the tourney though it’s irrelevant only thing that matters is winning.
I just pointed out the differences in play and you said their D sucks that was it so responded with what you thought about our teams D.
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@DanR been wrong about what feel free to add more to the conversation? I like talking ball feel free to discuss your thoughts and how you view things.
20 huh? Now you just sound like an arrogant head in the sand ku fan.
Auburn would run us out of the gym if we played them tonight. I hate pearl he cheats everywhere he goes (granted its allowed now) but his teams always can play.
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@kuballin10 you sound just the opposite!
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@kuballin10 KenPom is a good measure right now. If that doesn’t do it for you they gave up over 90 to Memphis and Missouri. They flat suck on defense. There’s no evidence to say otherwise. Or much of anything that says they’re better than us.
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@Crimsonorblue22 no arguments here! I am not a homer you have to see the team for who they are and their potential.
Ochai would have to go Danny and the Miracles for us to make any noise this year unfortunately.
When you favor the system over better potential with players and it’s been noted since the HEM days the frustration level with every lack of a title grows louder (I know dok’s year we got robbed but honestly zero guarantees there. We’d start off throwing it in the post in another final four while some team plays modern ball and lights us up from deep. I don’t think that team gets it done but feel awful Dok was completely robbed of it).
When coach sits down and says we aren’t athletic enough and big changes are made then proceeds to not change the lineup and plays less athletic players over more athletic guys it’s frustrating and there’s zero accountability.
When guys transfer play with freer minds and long leashes and their coaches instill confidence in them while riding them go figure they play better. William doesn’t do that.
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@FarmerJayhawk when half the games are cream puffs it’s irrelevant. Bama and us would be a good game today. They can’t guard but with only two scorers, zero low post threat - we are easily guardable and then don’t guard on the other end
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@DanR tell me you are watching this “sec” game
Pg just came down and dunked it on the Auburn big. We got a guard on our squad who can do that he just doesn’t play
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Having fun with the
I see.
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@kuballin10 sure, with Remy and Zach out. KenPom adjusts for who you play. A common statistical technique to get unbiased results.
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@BShark solid - now tell me what you think
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@kuballin10 who’s that?
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“Some people would rather lose 91-90 than win 60-59.”
-famous board rat
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@FarmerJayhawk what’s Kenpom weight remy’s effect on the team to win versus his actual output (stats in games played)
If you’re going to go all analyst on me that’s fine appreciate the conversation at least. Haven’t been on the board in years because guys can’t handle a conflicting viewpoint if you don’t bow at the alter of Self. When I tried to pontificate on how the games played or really talk ball others just call names because they haven’t played a day in their life and literally besides name calling or grammar analysis they can’t keep up.
I appreciated HEM because he’d call people out begging for other viewpoints to discuss instead of
“Trust self” “He can do no wrong” “You don’t see practice”
We come to this board to discuss if people can’t do that because they have nothing to add then what is the point here?
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@rockchalkwyo whether 2-0 or 155-153 just win…however since those aren’t legitimate options let’s look at what maximizes wins.
The better the team the more possessions helps them as they can score and other teams can’t keep up.
The opposite of this is Tony Bennett who I know the majority on this board want nothing to do with because he has his 1 lucky title and then some of the worst losses imaginable.
When you slow the game down and limit possessions you literally play into what an lesser team wants.
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@Crimsonorblue22 assumed the clown reference is me. Again just throwing jabs not talking ball. Just proves my point.
I’m throwing out reasons on why the team has struggled not just this year but last year as well (you all never miss a game I’m sure like myself). The way we play, defensively and offensively along with what’s been said, adjustments that haven’t been made and then results again aren’t acceptable.
For the “we are a top 10-15 team and right there to win big 12 and elite 8 ceiling” crowd then if that is the new goal yearly for blue bloods let me know we can all adjust our standards.
For self that shouldn’t be the goal but based on how he’s handled things these last two years the buck stops with him.
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@kuballin10 all you do is complain, never anything positive. I’d guess you were Remys dad. That seems to be your priority. All of us want him to do good and Self was talking how bad we need him in post game.
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It’s a little hard to tell where this team will end up. I think some here see a great ending, some are bearish on our future. This team has been an enigma most of the season. We’ve got brilliant Ochai, much improved Braun, role player Harris, improving Wilson, enigmatic Big Dave whom I think is to blame for the last two games, Mitch is who we know he is, disappointing Remy, really the season hinges on him, and newcomers who are still trying to break into the rotation. I really don’t know how this is going to end up.
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Idk what is to be upset with as far as recent performance.
4 years ago we made a FF. 3 years ago Doke got hurt which sucked. 2 years ago we were the favorites to win it all. Last year we sucked (nobody is winning with that group). This year Bill is pulling strings and working this team.
Dave only played 10 minutes tonight. KJ started. And JCL probably plays 20 minutes if he doesn’t catch an elbow. He played Bobby even though he’s practiced almost none.
The best part about this season so far is that it doesn’t feel like we’ve hit our stride. Seems clear to me this team has another gear they just haven’t hit yet. But it isn’t from Bill not trying
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@Crimsonorblue22 if that was the case with Self why didn’t Remy play more minutes and why was his hook so quick?
What I don’t get is why self trusts lesser talented players instead of riding the guys who can get him to a title.
Remy came here having been the man at asu I get gunning it like crazy. He didn’t do that his freshman year he wasn’t the guy but he was a stud as we witnessed at AFH.
Where did that player go? The guy who could beat his man and make other guys better?
Akinjo went 1-7 from deep tonight Baylor lost but drew trusted him and he’s been letting him shoot all year.
We did the same with graham and mason self trusted them. Why does self not trust remy? Because he had a couple loose shots in fall practice? He’s gonna carry you to a title and Bill treated him like a freshman he needed to “break”.
The issue is self. If he likes you then you hardly ever take a bad shot and no quick hook. If he doesn’t like you any shot that he deems quick or not within the offense is bad. Mason and graham, akinjo and whoever come down on breaks jack wide open 3’s. Majority of the time they go in we win and move on. Self in his mind to break remy of bad shots stripped him of his aggression in scoring what we desperately need right now.
Not remy’s Dad by any means but I’m connected with some asu alumn’s who are pretty in touch with the situation (Hurley’s a joke everyone knows that).
Had remy went to duke, uk, unc you think he’d shoot this little?
Can you fathom graham or mason not shooting at all for an entire half? Thst was remy against msu. Unfathomable.
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@wissox great analysis. I agree and think had Bill loosened the leash early on in the non-con these guys he’s now stuck playing because those who he thought would lead are so bad…we’d then be better off and more prepared.
Same thing this board, TOS and countless fans have said about him for years. It’s catching up to him his lack of adapting.
Transfer rules, one and done, it’s no surprise it hurts him because he wants to make you buy in to his system and you have to earn his trust otherwise it’s quick leash in games and zero learning experience.
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@Kcmatt7 appreciate the input.
Should have tried this earlier but that’s been said plenty.
The proof I’d have is guys are leaving our program and bring more successful elsewhere. They have longer leashes, play with confidence ect. You’ll get the rebuttal of they weren’t KU material well they are at other D1 schools excelling. The goal as a coach is to have guys play their absolute best and when they do that elsewhere and not here that’s something that needs to be examined.
Nobody likes the teachers pet imagine how that feels being a player on the team watching the coach have 1-2 when you aren’t the favored one yet more talented and a way higher ceiling. I’d transfer too.
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@kuballin10 said in ISU Game Thread:
@Kcmatt7 appreciate the input.
Should have tried this earlier but that’s been said plenty.
The proof I’d have is guys are leaving our program and bring more successful elsewhere. They have longer leashes, play with confidence ect. You’ll get the rebuttal of they weren’t KU material well they are at other D1 schools excelling. The goal as a coach is to have guys play their absolute best and when they do that elsewhere and not here that’s something that needs to be examined.
Nobody likes the teachers pet imagine how that feels being a player on the team watching the coach have 1-2 when you aren’t the favored one yet more talented and a way higher ceiling. I’d transfer too.
Remy came in with a me first attitude and got called on it. He bought in and started having fun winning then he got hurt. End of that story. When he’s healthy he will play big minutes. He and Dave are unfortunately what this season hinges on because they are the unknowns.
Say what you want about Harris but he makes plays in crunch time. Game winner tonight, diving steal the other day. He’s a gamer. Nothing flashy but all heart. I see why self loves him. Sad you don’t. Basketball is fun. Watching basketball is fun. Makes me sad for you that you can’t enjoy an exciting win over a top 15 team.
No one is going to accuse this team of peaking too early in the conference season. That’s for sure! But it will be interesting to see how they turn out in late February, March, and hopefully April.
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After 3 frustrating years with Dave and 25 years with Mitch, Self is adjusting and not playing the teacher’s pet at Self’s beloved 5 position. KJ got to start both halves and finish the last 30 seconds, as a freshman. That should show you who he currently trusts.
Remy is a different story. He needs to learn the system first / be 100% healthy, then be unleashed. And I would bet anyone that he will be unleashed.
I do get where you’re going with this, and appreciate the bigger picture perspective.
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Remy came in with a me first attitude and got called on it. He bought in and started having fun winning then he got hurt. End of that story.
- feel free to share where on earth you got that story from as it couldn’t be further from the truth. Remy came here because he loved KU (always wanted to play here we turned him down) and wanted to be coached by the best (Hurley sucks), to improve his overall game. The thought process that he must completely forget about scoring and only distribute and defend like he’s Harris is where this coaching staff went very wrong. Kids so good he can buy in and be above it all even when he can see it ain’t what he signed up for. He is unselfish as they come can play with multiple stars just because he didn’t at asu because they were awful… people have no clue about his attitude that is claimed. Self wanted Remy to do it his way…Self got what he wanted and now is realizing what he wanted and asked was dead wrong and why he didn’t utilize Remy like the last three stud lead guards (Dotson, graham and mason) no one will ever know but self.
Say what you want about Harris but he makes plays in crunch time. Game winner tonight, diving steal the other day. He’s a gamer. Nothing flashy but all heart. I see why self loves him. Sad you don’t. Basketball is fun. Watching basketball is fun. Makes me sad for you that you can’t enjoy an exciting win over a top 15 team.
- He made one clutch play yes, let’s not go overboard. If you think we can win it all with him you are going to be sadly mistaken. This is Kansas the expectations are supposed to be different.
No one is going to accuse this team of peaking too early in the conference season. That’s for sure! But it will be interesting to see how they turn out in late February, March, and hopefully April.
- I agree we definitely aren’t peaking too early.
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@kuballin10 he’s also dominated the ACC. I think defense wins you ballgames, it’s just harder to get red hot for 6 games when you hang your hat on D.
Do you ever wonder if guys like Self would have won more titles staying at a program like Illinois where he wasnt expected to land top 50 guys? Where he might have same level talent for a year sometimes 2 longer?
Do you think he wins a title earlier with Luther Head, Deron Williams and Dee Brown? Does he have less of a challenge recruiting undervalued talent to the Big 10?
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@rockchalkwyo great post.
Yes, Self has no choice because Dave’s been that bad. The issue is we need good Dave to even remotely have a chance for the big 12 and ncaa title. I thought after Dave’s showing in stilly we’d see him start any ideas why Self didn’t give him the go after the good performance?
It’d been the perfect atta boy based on him winning his job back. Dave when we aren’t required to post feed him is better than Mitch. When we play UK Oscar is going to eat Mitch and kj alive. Dave is our only hope.
If you want to hit on big transfers they system can’t be so complex they can’t pick it up easily. Remy’s played plenty of ball it shouldn’t take over half the season for him to go back to bring aggressive remy. That’s poor coaching.
Same issue though with recruiting and stud freshman staying. Self is extremely likeable but other coaches can sell against him easily with his track record and loyalty to his way and his system.
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Remy was late getting here too.
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@approxinfinity said in ISU Game Thread:
@kuballin10 he’s also dominated the ACC. I think defense wins you ballgames, it’s just harder to get red hot for 6 games when you hang your hat on D.
Defense wins ballgames but it’s harder to do for 6 games??? Somehow defense helps you win just not enough?..so you’re saying being a better offense team will mean you win more? That I can agree it’s the age old adage of basketball give me 5 gifted offensive players and I’ll teach them to be dogs and play D. If you give me 5 defense players they won’t get it done because I can’t create in them offensive skill set. I can draw up plays for easy buckets but if you can’t “go get yours” as the best for KU have done then we aren’t winning crap.
Do you ever wonder if guys like Self would have won more titles staying at a program like Illinois where you aren’t expected to land top 50 guys? Where you might have same level talent for a year sometimes 2 longer?
For Self 1000% agree he’s better off having guys stay 3-4 years so he can feel like he trusts them in his system and quits his short leash/quick hook deal. So yes, he’d be better off at a place like Illinois especially with the chitown connection.
I should add his 1 title was with upper classman. How often do stud freshman arrive only not to play how we expected them to come in or the minutes or a senior less athletic/potential gets minutes over them? That’s happened time and time again here so your logic is dead on.
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@Crimsonorblue22 agreed no doubt about that. For him to be coached to change his game this drastically was a mistake.
Self wants guys to play with a free mind and just go play but system takes precedent over freedom to play. Similar to what I’ve pointed out in the game thread. If och comes down goes 1 on 5 and shoots Self isn’t mad or yanking him. Go watch any early games and tell me what happened with Remy. Remy plays less minutes than Harris and they took the ball out of his hands. I guess going undefeated in open gyms means more to a HOF coach than actual D1 games that were played. Never knew summer league practice would carry more weight than a years of games and resume’ a guy like remy had built up.
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That has nothing to do with anything. Harris is not about Harris. He’s about moving the ball and setting up his teammates. The ball doesn’t stick w/him. He penetrates and dishes. He does the dirty work. He had to play a lot of mins today without remy to help. He does have a nice shot, look at his throws. He lacks confidence, I think we can all see that. That will get better. He needed another guard to help bring up the ball against the press. Hence more to’s than usual. Remy will get healthier and Bobby will get more practice reps.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in ISU Game Thread:
That has nothing to do with anything. Harris is not about Harris. He’s about moving the ball and setting up his teammates. The ball doesn’t stick w/him. He penetrates and dishes. He does the dirty work. He had to play a lot of mins today without remy to help. He does have a nice shot, look at his throws. He lacks confidence, I think we can all see that. That will get better. He needed another guard to help bring up the ball against the press. Hence more to’s than usual. Remy will get healthier and Bobby will get more practice reps.
Not sure Bobby is all the way healthy either.
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@benshawks08 agree. That injury may make him skiddish too.
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I heard in the post game Ochai say he learned to speak French during the pandemic.
Pleurage!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I agree. KU needed Harris and he scored the ball when KU needed it. I can’t understand why Braun and Ochai were so ineffective the last 8 minutes of the game. KU really missed Remy’s scoring last night; KU desperatley needed a third scorer last night and Harris was just enough to get the win.
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I’m happy we won. I thought we looked like last year w/o Remy. Glad to see KJ get some minutes. It’s nice to know we can play some defense when we have to.
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@kuballin10 who specifically is leaving and thriving?
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I think it was great to see the team react, execute to that late game situation with the game on the line. That really hasn’t been something the team has dealt with much so far. I think that win does a lot of good for guys mental state. They know they didn’t play great but got a hard fought win despite that and injuries etc.
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@Kcmatt7 said in ISU Game Thread:
@kuballin10 who specifically is leaving and thriving?
It’s not a list that exists. Guys that did okay statistically via volume (ie Andrew White) weren’t winning.
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Well, we won! I had a long winded post ready last night, but my internet crapped out before pushing send. So, this one will probably have fewer cuss words! I was surprised at how pesky Iowa State’s defense was. That made for an u-g-l-y first half. Extremely surprised to see KJ starting!!! He was a little bit lost at times, but I think with more PT he’ll be less lost and hopefully less stiff.
Semi shocked that Self is still trying to sort out who plays at this point in the season.
This is a weird season for Self. For some reason it really stands out how he’s trying to “herd” his players into whatever mold he sees fit. I’m not really getting it this year.
I think both teams were hurt and helped by poor officiating last night. KU for sure caught a lucky break on that non goal tending call. Game changer.
That Brockenwhatever dude has an amazing pull up midrange game. Did he miss in that range? His shooting form is perfect. Straight up, straight lines, release high.
Great second half for KU.
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@rockchalkwyo I was intrigued when KJ subbed in for Mitch at the end of such a tight game. Indeed, that shows KJ has earned Self’s trust. It doesn’t matter who starts the game (according to Self), but when the game is on the line, it sure matters who ends it.
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KJ started and barely played. Seemed like a message for both Mitch/Dave to get it together. Don’t think it worked but perhaps Self should stick with it
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The reason he’s still messing with the lineup is due to all the injuries and failures of the upperclass men. Wilson should be better, even if he can’t shoot he should be able to help out in the other phases. I watched the isu/tt game, it was as ugly as ours.
