Dayton Game Thread
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@KirkIsMyHinrich I’m really not even mad at the players.
Bill biffed this one. He’s got a friggen Lamborghini parked in the garage with Remy and we fed our ogre of a C like he shoots 75% from the field on our last possession.
Play out of a timeout before that we set a double screen for a guy scared to shoot the ball.
We played at least 7 minutes today without at least 2 of Braun, Och and Remy on the court for some god forsaken reason.
Didn’t make any sense.
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It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
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@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:
@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 he can put the right guys on the floor.
You got it. Bad substitutions, not sitting Dave and Wilson. Wilson hasn’t played, but what is Dave’s excuse (again)?
Dave was the only one giving any fucking effort the second half. But sure, ignore the players who couldn’t make a damn free throw or gave no damn effort on defense. Yes, we know Dave is limited in ability, but your hatred of him is blinding you to the fact nobody but Dave was actually giving any effort. 5 steals doesn’t happen by accident.
How about all the missed bunnies by Ochai and Braun, Remy jacking up bad shots, missing FT’s. All shit that did not involve Dave that played a bigger role in KU losing.
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The difference between out upper classmen and their youth was crazy. BUT we sure the fuck didn’t show any game experience in this - -the guys ought to be really proud of their play today - -great job
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@Kcmatt7 I was not super happy with Bill’s rotations today. I would agree with that.
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@Kubie against non-P5 talent… he should be dominating these games. But he still has the legs of a baby deer and the coordination of a toddler.
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Dave was our best big today* but you still shouldn’t be forcing it to him when he has the yips.
*Which really says something about our lack of post options.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it for 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
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@BShark serious question, why do we need a post scorer? There is plenty of offense elsewhere. Just tell Dave to set screens and catch lobs.
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I’m sorry I’m just not impressed by Dave’s effort when more then half the time he ends up on the floor. Its truly remarkable to see someone flail to the ground from “effort”. It’s more then that
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it foe 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
Agree with this. Hopefully they are engaged for all 40 minutes on Sunday.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BShark serious question, why do we need a post scorer? There is plenty of offense elsewhere. Just tell Dave to set screens and catch lobs.
Also agree with this but Bill is Bill.
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Borderline I think the best fit for this team is to play KJ 15 mpg and run. At least he has athleticism to match.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:
Borderline I think the best fit for this team is to play KJ 15 mpg and run. At least he has athleticism to match.
Maybe they should. Dave isn’t getting it done, not scoring just looks lost right now something not right – hell KJ can rebound - -may not score but neither is day KJ by far more athletic
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@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
I’m sorry I’m just not impressed by Dave’s effort when more then half the time he ends up on the floor. Its truly remarkable to see someone flail to the ground from “effort”. It’s more then that
Effort and ability are two different things. We know Dave is limited in ability, but Dave was the only player ending up on the floor because he was the only one trying the second half.
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The effort in the 2nd half was bad for that stretch.
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@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it foe 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
Agree with this. Hopefully they are engaged for all 40 minutes on Sunday.
Bill ducked around in the first half with the Harris/Bobby/JCL/Wilson/Mitch lineup too though. Could have put them away earlier… had every opportunity to be up 15 at half
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@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it foe 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
Agree with this. Hopefully they are engaged for all 40 minutes on Sunday.
Bill ducked around in the first half with the Harris/Bobby/JCL/Wilson/Mitch lineup too though. Could have put them away earlier… had every opportunity to be up 15 at half
Sorry, but KU had a double digit half time lead and blew it in 5 minutes. That was a lack of effort, not because Bill was trying a line up combination with a big lead in the first half.
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We’re a fragile (it’s Italian!) fan base.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it foe 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
Agree with this. Hopefully they are engaged for all 40 minutes on Sunday.
Bill ducked around in the first half with the Harris/Bobby/JCL/Wilson/Mitch lineup too though. Could have put them away earlier… had every opportunity to be up 15 at half
Do think this is a valid point. Seems like he sometimes intentionally will break a teams momentum in the first half so as NOT to get a huge lead. That lineup definitely took the foot off the gas after an explosive start to the game with a lineup that included both Harris and Dave.
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Way too many people bitching about the lack of effort in the 2nd half and then not blaming the players when their lack of effort was the biggest reason they lost today.
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@wissox idk high expectations.
Look at the football team. We’re willing to endure.
Not all of us have a 2nd college team to follow.
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For those of you complaining about the short bench today, what happened at the end of the first half when Self had a lot of the bench guys in? Did KU’s lead get bigger or smaller? That’s why Self went 7 deep down the stretch.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think anyone was hoping Remy would play 25 min or that he and ochai would come out at the same time
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This combination IS NOT gonna win you very many games: - -Out shot from the field . Out shot from the 3 pt line ,- – Out shot at the free throw line , and just got our ass handed to us on the boards 36-25 - -the is NO EXCUSE for that,- - - -those kind of stats not gonna win you very many games.
CB is the only one who really had a god game - -all around game - 8-12 from the floor 17 points - -9 rebounds - - 4 steals - -& ZERO turnovers - to bad he couldn’t get any help
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@Kubie play our walk-on guard Teahan over him at this point, whoever.
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@BShark we shouldn’t be forcing it inside period, let alone start Dave. He is not a match with the players and skillsets that we have.
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think anyone was hoping Remy would play 25 min or that he and ochai would come out at the same time
@approxinfinity thank you. @Texas-Hawk-10 question. Do you think that Dave meshes well with the players and skillsets that we have on this team? Hell, unless it be a plodding, undeep and unathletic one would he mesh well with any team? The team that we have this year is not the same as last.
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@tis4tim said in Dayton Game Thread:
@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Dayton Game Thread:
As frustrated as everyone is right now, remember that these guys are college kids and no one is perfect.
I hear what you’re saying, but we didn’t have to be perfect. 9-21 from FT and 4-19 from 3-point line is not going to win you many games.
You’re right. All that we needed was to play those who deserved to play period, and we would have won.
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well crap. that sucks. that game was looking like it had potential for a large marge win early on. Agreed with some that Bill hasn’t worked out his rotations/lineups yet. or maybe i’m agreeing with myself. i saw a few suspect (to me) lineups on the floor. Hate it when he has like 1 or 0 shooters on the floor, which he did today (JCL was the only dude on the floor who could shoot at one point). I don’t recall if we were losing momentum though, so can say that was the issue. Crap!
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Harris’ contribution today = 0 Dude needs way less PT. Insert somebody who at least is a threat offensively and can come close defensively.
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@rockchalkjayhawk like @BShark said, two of three players need to be on the floor for us at all times. I want Braun to play 40 mpg! Lol
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@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk like @BShark said, two of three players need to be on the floor for us at all times. I want Braun to play 40 mpg! Lol
Didn’t see that BShark mention @Marco well, i couldn’t agree more! depending on who the three guys are…
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
It will. That was a designed play to get Dave a look at the hoop, everyone knows he doesn’t pass. That’s after the game he’s had while Och Remy and CB had provided all the offense. It’s bad coaching on that play. Regardless of the bad call it was designed to get him the ball because at no point in the game had we pinned Dave in the lane to go get a bucket
If KU actually shown any effort the second half, it doesn’t come down to the final possession. That’s why this game is on the players and not Self. Bill Self was not the one on the floor saying fuck it for 15 minutes and not giving any effort.
This post is a good one! Add the horrific free throw shooting and you get the result of today’s game. Too bad a loss is a learning experience.
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@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:
@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think anyone was hoping Remy would play 25 min or that he and ochai would come out at the same time
@approxinfinity thank you. @Texas-Hawk-10 question. Do you think that Dave meshes well with the players and skillsets that we have on this team? Hell, unless it be a plodding, undeep and unathletic one would he mesh well with any team? The team that we have this year is not the same as last.
Is Dave perfect for the current system, no, but Self also doesn’t have a better option at the 5 at this point. Mitch is even more limited than Dave in his skill set, KJ Adams is Jamari Traylor at this point. Jalen Wilson is a crap shoot about what he’ll provide, today was jack shit on both ends. Zach Clemence is the best chance at some point, but not yet. When he’s gotten extended looks, it’s clear why Clemence doesn’t play more yet because he gets lost on both ends of the floor. He can’t operate in the paint yet and can’t guard anyone yet. Clemence’s best comparison is a more athletic Perry Ellis and Ellis was never a good defender.
Dave is the current best fit at the 5 for KU and he is good a setting screens and operating in a pick and roll or screen and roll situation.
And this team isn’t as different from last season as you think. Remy and Coleman-Lands are the only two high minutes players that are different from last year. If Wilson does replace Harris in the starting line up, it’ll be the 4/5 starters from last year with Harris still being one of the first off the bench like last season, Mitch still being the main big off the bench, and Coleman-Lands basically replacing Bryce Thompson in the rotation.
The guys you wanted to see in the second half was mostly the same group that began giving up the lead in the 1st half so I’m not sure why you think they would’ve done any differently in the second half.
As to @approxinfinity about Remy and Ochai not playing as much as possible, Remy was taking a lot of really bad shots early in the shot clock instead of running offense so that’s why he got yanked a bit in the second half. Same with Ochai, who was playing pretty poorly during that stretch in the 2nd half as well missing a bunch FT’s and 3’s so he wasn’t helping much either.
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Can’t believe we couldn’t find a 6’10+ guy that could rebound, contest shots, and wanted to come to Kansas this year.
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
Can’t believe we couldn’t find a 6’10+ guy that could rebound, contest shots, and wanted to come to Kansas this year.
Did anybody, including Self, think Dave was going to regress as much as he has from the end of last season? If Dave was doing what he did once conference play started last year, we’d all be bitching about him coming off the floor.
KU actually did get a 6-9 guy who can do all of those things you said to come to Kansas, but it was a guy with no athleticism whatsoever.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 which one, Curry?
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 which one, Curry?
Cam Martin, Sydney Curry was basically what KJ Adams is, except with two less years of eligibility.
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I mean it’s not about whether we expect him to regress, it’s whether we have a backup plan. We clearly are not deep enough in the paint for a coach that always says he plays inside out.
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
Can’t believe we couldn’t find a 6’10+ guy that could rebound, contest shots, and wanted to come to Kansas this year.
Imagine Cofi Cockburn in a KU uniform.
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It’s yet to be seen whether Cam Martin is able to rebound at a D-1 level against athletic players. Add athleticism to my list of desired attributes. That’s still not a polished skill. Surely there’s some raw talent giant that wants to come to Kansas every year
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And I mean maybe this never happens again. Next year we have bigs coming. But it seems like we Want to get a guard a wing and a big in basically each class ideally
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
It’s yet to be seen whether Cam Martin is able to rebound at a D-1 level against athletic players. Add athleticism to my list of desired attributes. That’s still not a polished skill. Surely there’s some raw talent giant that wants to come to Kansas every year
That happened last year with Gethro Muscadin. Raw talent doesn’t work in Self’s system though because Self doesn’t run a basic system, he runs a fairly complex system that takes time to learn which is why we still see Harris running point over Remy most of the time right now.
You’re not going to find the type of big you want on the transfer market very often because a big with the skill set you want typically ends up in the NBA pretty quickly. Those that are available usually have a major flaw in their game that keeps them from the NBA. Kofi Cockburn for example since he was name dropped is similar to Doke in that he’s basically useless more than 7-8 from the basket.
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As far as raw talent, that’s KJ Adams this season. He’s high energy, but low skilled which means he doesn’t bring much to the table against quality teams.
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@Kcmatt7 I was mainly referring to the folk who give up on our team in a game in which we were one relatively lucky bounce away from winning the game.
Sure it was disappointing, but not the end of the world!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 good comp of muscadin. Dave and Jalen played 48 minutes today, Zach and KJ played 4. If that shifts 10 minutes I think this is a win. Think KJ might be able to get a few of those boards/bunnies that Dave did not, and played only 1 minute.
Regardless of complexity, when protecting a lead we can’t lack basic proficiency.
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@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 good comp of muscadin. Dave and Jalen played 48 minutes today, Zach and KJ played 4. If that shifts 10 minutes I think this is a win. Think KJ might be able to get a few of those boards/bunnies that Dave did not, and played only 1 minute.
Regardless of complexity, when protecting a lead we can’t lack basic proficiency.
I don’t think KJ changes the outcome of the game because he’s not someone you really have to guard on offense at this point. Zach Clemence may have been the better option because of his shooting to me, but he was also part of the group that started giving up the lead in the first half.
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Maybe an early loss for a wake up call for everyone to work harder?
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@StLJhawk said in Dayton Game Thread:
Maybe an early loss for a wake up call for everyone to work harder?
Work harder or just execute better? No way to sugar coat this - this was a bad loss. Dayton had a losing record coming in. Has a dozen freshmen. They turned the ball over 20 times. This should have been a blowout. At this point, Baylor rules the roost in the B12 (just beat down MSU), and KU needs to prove otherwise. And, unless the Hawks do dominate the conference, a high seed isn’t in the offing - the non-conference schedule is the weakest in memory. Other than UK?, really no other opportunities for quality wins.
