2021-22 PER's & Stats



  • @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco because we need him to get better!

    I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?

    Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.

    I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.

    I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?

    His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.

    So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco because we need him to get better!

    I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?

    Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.

    I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.

    I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?

    His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.

    So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.

    Ya really poor numbers for sure , but even worse this year. - He was a good rebounds for us last year but just seems to be really pressing. We need him always a need for another scorer, cause you know and I know there WILL come a time CB and Oach both or one is just gonna be off , that’s where we need him and Remy both to pick it up. You have mention in other threads/posts that after this yr you think Jalen is gone no matter what - I beleive that also. Let’s just hope he gets his act together.



  • @jayballer67

    Hopefully he has a breakout game coming up that gets him back on track.

    Personally I think Jalen should stick around another year. With the roster the way its shaping up we are going to need him.

    But the tea leaves certainly paint a different picture.



  • Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to “get him going”?

    I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen’s talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn’t reward him with a starter’s role just because he “should” be playing better or because he’s supposedly better when he starts. Don’t mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don’t just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent … do you?

    Glad I’m not a coach.



  • @drgnslayr he needs to figure that out, and fast. He lulls behind the 3 point line far too much.



  • @tis4tim said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to “get him going”?

    I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen’s talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn’t reward him with a starter’s role just because he “should” be playing better or because he’s supposedly better when he starts. Don’t mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don’t just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent … do you?

    Glad I’m not a coach.

    That’s where I’m coming from…



  • @tis4tim

    It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes. He’s coming off the bench so it’s a bit different then if he was starting. It is an adjustment when your used to being out there starting and being relied on. He was a volume scorer last year with below avg shooting numbers and so far this year that hasn’t changed, if anything his role has decreased his ability to make an impact. I was hoping we’d see an increase in efficiency from him especially in FG% and at the FT line. Hopefully he’s getting up extra shots



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes.

    Thanks for the reply @BeddieKU23. I guess the deal for me is that he’s been unable to get his mojo back so far even in low leverage situations against lesser talent. We all know the road to a conference title is going to be very difficult this season and do we really want to risk a “W” short term for some long-term benefit that may or may not arrive?

    Aside from the Remy/Self battle of wills, the Jalen storyline is becoming an intriguing “problem” to watch. I only hope Jalen figures it out quick to make moot the question of whether or not to play him.



  • Last year, Jalen created his own offense. We had a team that lacked enough scoring. His numbers were okay considering he just made it all happen on his own. He needs to be integrated better into the offense. I don’t see him at all integrated now.



  • @drgnslayr

    Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.



  • Jalen should be the back-up 5. Would solve so many issues. Play JCL over Mitch. Line-ups with Jalen and another big have been bad.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @drgnslayr

    Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.

    And living only out on the 3 pt line.



  • @BeddieKU23

    We are seeing none of the Jalen from last year… where he would drive hard in the paint. He just looks lost out there. And… he isn’t hitting his shots. Sign of confidence issues.

    Kind of wondering if he is in Self’s “suffering box?” I have this feeling like there will come a day this year where he busts free and it will bring this team to a higher level.

    Hope I’m right!



  • Jalens a guy who can be so valuable to this team without scoring the ball especially the way Och and CB are playing. I hope he starts concentrating the other aspects of the game and stops pressing so much offensively. Play his role and I believe things will turn around for him. He’s just too good to be this irrelevant



  • @drgnslayr

    Confidence kills (at both ends of the spectrum). He’s a kid still figuring it out. Year 3 and its still an issue.

    Jalen’s had some obstacles. Remember KU wasn’t his first choice and he came here after Beilein B-lined to the NBA momentarily. Then he missed a whole year with the injury. Came back motivated (after rumors were he considered leaving) and surprised most of this fan-base how prepared he was to contribute. We don’t beat some ranked teams last year without Jalen’s outstanding play. The 2nd half of the season was a bit of a letdown for him and I don’t think he’s shaken it yet. I really thought we’d see a more mature Jalen on the court and so far that just hasn’t happened. As I mentioned before and you did, if he has a game where the lid comes off the basket I think you see him turn it up a few notches. Saturday is a perfect day to get that rolling.



  • Maybe Self is grooming him to be that valuable “6th man” this year? Not sure Jalen is psyched for that role.

    Think about what kind of weapon he could be at 6th man? Coming in around the 14 minute mark in the first half… both teams settled into a tone of play and then here comes this guy with high energy, grabbing every available rebound and then pushing the tempo up the court… then physically taking it to the hole.

    @BeddieKU23 … you may be on to something with that last post. He may be a very temperamental player that also may be a challenge to coach. I thought he would become a volume scorer… but true volume scorers all have bad memories on their last performances, especially the bad ones… even can’t remember what they did earlier in the same game.

    At this point, it seems his issue is more than missing the first few games. One thing… he definitely seems to be lacking confidence.

    Gosh… imagine we have 3 players averaging around 20 ppg?! That would be nuts and also would take even more pressure off Big Dave needing to put up numbers in the paint!



  • @drgnslayr

    The maturation process for some just takes longer. Look at the transformation of Ochai and Christian this season. Like so many before them when they become upperclassmen and lock in. I was really hoping Jalen was going to be in that group. We’ll see what happens. He’s got to embrace the role he’s in and keep grinding. That 6th man role is always a valuable one at KU.



  • Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?



  • @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?

    CB and Och took huge leaps, Jalen seems to have become worse somehow (though I think there is a mental aspect).



  • @BShark seriously can’t figure it out. He hit a down slide last yr, before the covid. He knows there’s no spot in the starting lineup. That’s mental. Bust your butt outside of practice.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BShark Bust your butt outside of practice.

    Instead his butt got busted! Sorry, sorry I’ll show myself out



  • @BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?

    CB and Och took huge leaps, Jalen seems to have become worse somehow (though I think there is a mental aspect).

    I think he’s uncomfortable, realizing that they’re both more talented than he is. He’s going to have to come off the bench as a sub 5 or 4, about 15 minutes per game tops. Zach deserves and needs some pt this season while getting ready for next.



  • @rockchalkwyo

    Pity we don’t have laugh emojis!



  • I’m definitely not checking Jalen off my list. I still have faith he will come on big this year. Partially, I hold on to Self’s statement about how much quicker the team is with him in the lineup. However… I do think the team has been speeding up some without him on the floor.

    Jalen is like any of these guys… regardless of athleticism… if you want to be effective on offense, watch the Zags and how those guys cut to the rim when off-ball. He could be a total beast at this!



  • @drgnslayr said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    I’m definitely not checking Jalen off my list. I still have faith he will come on big this year. Partially, I hold on to Self’s statement about how much quicker the team is with him in the lineup. However… I do think the team has been speeding up some without him on the floor.

    Jalen is like any of these guys… regardless of athleticism… if you want to be effective on offense, watch the Zags and how those guys cut to the rim when off-ball. He could be a total beast at this!

    I get you, and he pushes the ball up the court, but is living (and not very well) out at the three point line.

    With Dave at the 5, Braun and Ochai doing what they do and they both need to keep doing it, and Remy and JCL starting to come on and others also contributing where does that leave Jalen? For real? Can he out rebound Braun or Dave? Where will he position himself?

    I am onboard with what @BShark said, he needs to be Dave’s backup. Why? Because he needs to play inside, only occassionally drifting out. He cannot play alongside Dave, it hurts the flow of the team.



  • @Marco

    I don’t think he’s a legit 5 defender unless we convert to an X-axis team… (not gonna happen).

    Mitch is our 5 backup.

    Jalen is our best rebounder.

    If we flip to Self’s new version of “hi-lo” then Jalen works fine… sort of like the Memphis team we beat in '08. Motion offense… dribble drive… feed the paint when it works. Starting to look like Self is figuring this out anyways. We don’t win on a traditional hi-lo. Teams aren’t really taking Dave as the ultimate threat and he can sometimes do more to clog the paint then be our best option in the paint. I don’t want to trash Dave… he has received plenty of unwarranted heat already. Dave is good as long as we use him properly.

    Having 4 perimeter players all capable of driving the paint sounds like a winning strategy to me. I guarantee you Mark Few would LOVEEEE to have our options!

    Jalen can handle the 4 spot and have him basically opposite (along the baseline) with Och… and use Och for the backdoor alleyoops… both guys slashing towards the paint… both guys popping out anywhere on the trey line… both guys cutting to the rim to take a feed (Zags style). Unlimited options.

    We just can’t have that offense where we put 4 guys on the perimeter and try to out-speed pass the defense. That’s when we know we are flat (as has always been the case and probably half my rants on here throughout the years).

    This has to be one of Bill’s more entertaining teams to scheme offense around! Has to be!



  • Updated post SFA

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  • Updated post Oklahoma St win.

    Points

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    PER

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    Kenpom

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  • Some interesting stats

    KU had 49 dunks last year, they already have 51 in 13 games.

    McCormack only makes 55% of his close 2’s. Remy & Harris are also under 60% but they are also 6’0 tall.

    Ochai should stop shooting long 2’s, only hitting 30% clip. Remy shooting 57% on them so its a good shot for him.

    Jalen Wilson shooting 73% on close 2’s so maybe he should only shoot layups cause he can’t make anything else.



  • The metrics have not been kind to KU this week.

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    PER’s- Since conference play 9 of 12 players have seen their PER drop several points.

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    Och with over 300 points in 15 games. Heck of season for him so far.

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  • @BeddieKU23 Not really that surprising that PERs have dropped so much since conference play started. Our conference opponents, even OSU, are probably 3 of the 4 best teams we’ve played all season. Certainly the 3 best defensive teams. Our non-conference schedule revealed almost nothing meaningful about this team - other than we could lose to a 6 loss team comprised mostly of freshmen. Most years, we are near the top in Quad 1 wins. Not this year - I think we have just 2 or 3 at this point. Some teams have 10 or more.



  • @DCHawker

    Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

    Will be interesting to see if PER’s revert back up or this trend is something more concerning



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @DCHawker

    Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

    Will be interesting to see if PER’s revert back up or this trend is something more concerning

    If the current play continues with a healthy Remy I will be concerned.



  • @BShark

    Will he get healthy is certainly my question at this point.



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BShark

    Will he get healthy is certainly my question at this point.

    Bill sounds… not optimistic about him coming back super soon.





  • @BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @DCHawker

    Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

    Will be interesting to see if PER’s revert back up or this trend is something more concerning

    If the current play continues with a healthy Remy I will be concerned.

    I wouldn’t neccessarily be drooling about playing Kentucky this year. Night and Day from last year and we have No answer not even close for their inside guys this year



  • @jayballer67

    Yeah Oscar. He might break the rebound record against us



  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @jayballer67

    Yeah Oscar. He might break the rebound record against us

    very easily could nobody handle him



  • Shibway(lol) we need to pray🙏 He gets in foul trouble. He did a few times against us.



  • After a " Good for the Soul beatdown" here’s some updated stats.

    Ochai Agbaji is now #35th on the all-time scoring list halfway through his stellar senior season.

    At his current scoring rate (20.6ppg) Ochai would be in #19 place by the end of the regular season just passing Kenny Gregory and a few shy of Jeff Boschee. An extended run in both the Big-12 tournament and NCAA tournament could see him jump all the way to #14 just shy of Devonte Graham, at his current scoring rate.

    At any rate Agbaji has a good chance at cracking the Top 20 all-time. What an achievement that’s in his sights after coming to KU as an unheralded recruit and even being red-shirting his freshman year for half that season. Ochai your a stud!!

    Uptick in points for Wilson getting over 100 on the season.

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    KU got back to pre- Iowa St numbers

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  • Updated after K-ST.

    Och can score the rock!

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    Jalen’s PER has skyrocketed up lately. Och at an Elite level for a Guard

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    Kenpom did not like our dramatic win against K-St especially defensively. Obviously we know we sucked on that end for a large stretch.

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  • @BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Updated after K-ST.

    Och can score the rock!

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    Jalen’s PER has skyrocketed up lately. Och at an Elite level for a Guard

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    Kenpom did not like our dramatic win against K-St especially defensively. Obviously we know we sucked on that end for a large stretch.

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    Yeah 1.45 ppp for the first half is going to have an impact on overall defensive stats! Yikes. But I do think our defense is improving after that game believe it or not. That second half showed the team (and self) can get stops consistently when dialed in and with a sound game plan.

    I’m wondering if less switching might do this team good on d. Just to turn up the individual pressure won players to stay engaged.



  • @benshawks08 I definitely think it is weird we don’t do more things like have Harris deny their best player the ball like we did with Pack.



  • @Kcmatt7 Seems like maybe the team has struggled so much with the fundamentals Self values that perhaps there hasn’t been as much focus on game planning for individuals/teams. I think having an active Dave in the paint can really help this team defensively. At least there’d be a big body jumping and flailing at lay up attempts.

    I really do think they’ll get it worked out by the end of the season. Not to the point where they are an elite defensive team, but a solid one none the less.



  • Kenpom rankings a bit weird this year. Only 2 top 10 defenses in the top 10 teams. And they are 10th and 8th. The fewest of any year.

    3 would end up tying it, and there is a lot of season left. But it could be a sign of a wild tourney…



  • @Kcmatt7

    Interesting that 7 of the top 10 offenses are in the Top 10 rankings.

    Arizona sitting at #3 after getting completely clobbered last night by #10 UCLA. Really Zona didn’t even look competitive. So are the rankings way off?



  • Updated after the Tech Win. Och sits 16 pts away from tying Mario Chalmers for 30th all time on the scoring list

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    PER’s

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    Kenpom really hates our defense

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