Grade The New Kansas Recruiting Class
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I think you are right. I hope you are wrong.
Self has too often leaned on experience over talent. As others have said, I hope that he has learned from that. Lucas and Traylor are not as good at basketball as Diallo and Bragg. That doesn’t mean that they should never play, but it does mean that if someone has to play a minimal amount of minutes between Ellis, Diallo, Lucas, Bragg and Traylor, it should be Lucas or Traylor because they are the least talented among that group.
My worry with Svi is that his ballhandling was not good last year due to his lack of strength. He seems to have corrected the lack of strength issue, but has that had an unintended consequence (lost shot fluidity, loss of quickness). Sometimes putting on muscle is great. Other times it just puts tank armor on a Ferrari. Doesn’t accelerate anymore and can’t corner worth a darn. Not saying this happened to Svi. We don’t know. I’m just monitoring that as closely as I am monitoring the Greene hip situation.
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@justanotherfan Here’s why Self has always preferred experience over talent at least early in the season. His explanation for why Cliff didn’t start sooner was basically because Cliff was foul prone and he rather have Cliff pick up 2 fouls later in the half than 2 minutes into the game and sit for 18. It was the same deal with Embiid as well. He didn’t start until he could prove he could play more than a couple of minutes without picking up 2 quick fouls. It’ll likely be the same deal with Lucas and Diallo this year. Landen knows how to play defense without fouling immediately and Diallo likely doesn’t. We’ll probably see Diallo move into the starting line up sometime around the 10 game mark this season and hopefully sooner.
I also wouldn’t worry at all about the muscle Svi is putting on. He was listed at about 180 lbs. last year if I remember correctly, that’s just skinny for anyone his size. A player his height should be in the 205-210 range at his age and position. He’ll be stronger this year, but he’s still got another year or two to go before he reaches his ideal playing weight and he has one of the best in the business at identifying an ideal playing weight that doesn’t compromise ability. He’ll be just fine in that department.
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I agree in theory that Self doesn’t want his young guys getting into quick foul trouble, but the problem is that you aren’t getting any more time out of them either way.
Let’s say that a guy doesn’t start because you are worried that he will foul early in the game and end up on the bench. So you sit him until after the first TV timeout and he checks in with about 15 minutes to go in the half. He has already missed the first 5 minutes, but he has zero fouls. He picks up two fouls before the next TV timeout and has to come back to the bench. You got three minutes out of him.
A better solution is just to play the guy and let him adapt on the floor. If that means he fouls out against Northeastern State, that’s fine by me. I’d rather him learn against those guys so he’s available against Texas and Oklahoma than try and ease him in.
In college hoops, the easiest opponents are going to be at the beginning of the schedule, in the first 10-12 games. I’d rather Diallo foul out or miss the last 17 minutes of the first half against those guys than have him gone against Texas when we really need him. JMO.
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@justanotherfan The thought process on not starting a foul prone player right away is that if you wait, they can see how the game is being officiated first and then determine how they can play from there…
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@justanotherfan @Texas-Hawk-10
And it allows the player to get in a rhythm. If you were to get two early fouls and sit for 17 minutes then halftime you have no flow as to how the game is going anymore. But, if you wait and let them play the next 5 minutes, they can get a feel for the game and come out ready to go in the second half.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I agree with you on the 15 pounds of muscle-at 17 his body is just maturing and he was thin to start with. I am happy about it-that was the plan. I’d venture to say if he had a twin brother who wasn’t a jock the kid would naturally gain some weight (not 15
and muscle purely from increased testosterone kids experience at that age.
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Cliffs biggest problem was he didn’t want to take any responsibility for his actions and he was a mamas boy! I bet his mom interfered with his relationship with HCBS and held him back more than anything. I remember how much HCBS talked about the Morris twins mom and how she stayed in KS to help Robinson with his sister his last year at KU. I never heard Self talk about Cliffs mom once?
As a coach you don’t need any outside influences conflicting what you are trying to instill in the kids you are trying to make men out of! I believe the reason Cliffs minutes were minimal is because HCBS had more than he could stand from Cliff and his mom. She will be the reason he never makes in in the NBA. She has already done plenty of damage but I don’t think she is done! Moms that continually make excuses for their children produce piss poor adults that usually end up behind bars or dead!
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I think that may be a bit harsh unless you have some pretty significant evidence of something beyond the loan, etc. Saying that Cliff’s mom is “an outside influence” isn’t really fair. She’s his mother. She’s not an agent. She’s not a runner. She’s not some Johnny come lately or a hanger on. She’s his mother.
I know next to nothing about her other than this whole loan thing. Saying that she interfered with Self and will be the reason he doesn’t make the NBA is a huge leap given the limited facts we have, unless you know more than what has been in the public view. Not saying that you need to divulge if you do, because I believe everyone is entitled to privacy, even great athletes. But making a blanket statement like that really isn’t fair to Cliff or his family.
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@justanotherfan She might as well be his agent or runner. She is already cashing in on his earnings. He had a full ride, food, stipends, housing, clothes, etc. Who benefited most from the loan that was taken out on his future earnings? AND if I posted the things he has on FB, twitter, and conducted myself during interviews the way he has my mom would kick my butt! Its just my view on the situation harsh or not.
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@Statmachine you see cliffs new “baby”?
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Embiid did have a future NBA player in front of him when he came in so his situation is different from Diallo’s. Diallo doesn’t have a future NBA Center in his way.
I think with Self this year, he’s going to role with his most talented team. No question Diallo will have to adjust as all freshman do, but if we all agree that Diallo is an upgrade to Lucas why would you sit him. Conventional wisdom from Self says he sits early, I’m hunching he plays Diallo because he knows how talented this kid could be. No reason to baby him.
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I think your “mom comments” concerning Cliff’s mom sound harsh… but that doesn’t mean what you said is not true!
I think a lot of parents have totally screwed over their kids by getting too involved in their activities.
If I can think of parents I would consider correct in how they remained supportive of their athletic children I would look at Andrew Wiggins’ parents. They seemed to be there for him and offer him advice from their experience, but in the end, they instilled responsibilities in Andrew to make his own decisions and they weren’t fiddling around with Self too much to try to influence to meet their desires… an often very selfish attitude parents can have!
I don’t know if Cliff is a “momma’s boy” but if he is and he lets her continue to influence his future, he is in trouble. This is HIS future and he is supposed to be entering manhood and taking some responsibility for himself.
The more I write about this, the more your comments sound less harsh about Cliff’s mom. I like to remain respectful about anyone’s parents because it feels like prying… so my statement isn’t about Cliff’s mom as much as it is about parents of athletic children.
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@Crimsonorblue22 No I haven’t seen the new baby, but I bet that wasn’t his fault either? Sorry guys I just think Cliff’s attitude and behavior is pretty poor for someone that has been blessed like he has.
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@drgnslayr Cliffs moma moved close to KU to be with her son. Now I don’t know if she had a 9to5 but If I were a betting man I would bet she did not have a JOB during her short stay. Who do you think paid for that?
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I don’t know… maybe borrowed money?
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That “baby” seems to be parked in a nice residential area. Is there more to the “baby” story? Like a sweet-azz crib?
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How many in here see Cliff’s future as being financially sound?
I’m not trying to address this with any racial tone. There are great examples of financially sound athletes in all races. But there seems to be a push in Cliff’s life to buy goodies as fast as possible… and perhaps it is more than just Cliff wanting goodies…
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I know they have 7 kids so where are they if she’s in Lawrence? I wondered about that house too. Even thought he might be joking. How dumb can one be?
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Many agents will “advance” money to clients and will get paid when the contract goes through. However, considering that Cliff does not have a contract as of yet, it looks like a risky proposition. As far as the ca,r and as cars go for pro-athletes, this is not really not that extravagant.
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@Statmachine You are assuming a laundry list of characteristics about Mom that I’m not convinced of. I personally think if the truth were known, Mom was an accomplice to Cliff’s plan to cash in sooner than later. I simply refuse to believe any lending organization would loan a nickel on somebody else’s money w/o getting some form of commitment from the bread winner. I doubt Cliff’s mom had the wherewithal to put something like that together w/o help from her son, who obviously knew a lot more than he’s letting on…imho. The villain here isn’t Mom…it’s Cliff. Mom helped with the money laundering, for sure, but I think this is 100% Cliff’s baby. Just my opinion, fwiw.
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@KUSTEVE You’re probably right but my mom would have NEVER let something like this jeopardize my extremely bright future.
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It is extravagant if he doesn’t get a contract. And I wonder if there is a house involved, too. The car is parked in front of what appears to be a pretty nice house. It is unlikely he gets a contract going in the second round. He’ll be headed to Dead-League where players go to die and get paid essentially the same wage McDonald’s employees make. This is likely the scenario for Cliff. I hope he breaks through…but he shouldn’t be buying anything yet on future earnings that are a total 50/50 shot of coming through.
Cliff already made a huge error in judgment that is going to cost him a fortune (most likely) regarding getting a hold of some quick cash. That is the basis of why I think he is in for hardship ahead. We can blame his mom… but I’m not going to do that. Cliff is the one that had to step up and be responsible.
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Cliff and family have shown in spades that they don’t have the judgment to make decisions that will pay in the future and are mostly thinking on the here and now. A really bad combination for player whose future status is pretty much in limbo.
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@Statmachine No doubt. This was obviously a lottery ticket moment for the whole family.
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All I know this is a sad, sad story!
