whats up with Vick?
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There is such a thing as a “Run off” waiver that could be used.
This would allow a player to be eligible for immediate transfer providing the head coach admits that he cut the player from the team without any misconduct. The player would also have to be in good academic standing.
The reason most coaches don’t do it is because they have to admit they kicked a player off of the team for essentially no reason and that looks very bad when recruiting.
But, I believe this would allow someone like Hunter or one of the bigs who wants to leave to actually transfer schools and not have to sit out a year. It could easily be a mutual benefit for us and a guy like Hunter.
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@HighEliteMajor Thanks - I wondered if a guy could actually get 2 RS’s. Also consider that Greene is coming off a surgery & Vick may be an absolute necessity regarding such a possible RS for him.
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@jayballer54 I don’t know definitively, but my best guess on why Vick hasn’t announced his reclassification yet is that there’s a hold up in the process beyond Vick’s control. Whether it’s a Clearinghouse or Bill Self related delay, I don’t know at this point, but that’s the most logical explanation at this point.
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he will enroll at ku
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Lost in all of this a little bit is that Self is REALLY working hard to construct this roster for success here. If he’s juggling things, and if he has to make a tough decision on a kid, that’s what he has to do.
I mentioned this a few seasons ago … We want him on that wall, we need him on that wall.
He made a very tough call on a soon to be senior last season (Tharpe). He made a very tough call on a relatively popular kid (White). It would be much easier for him to let things play out on good kids. Agree or disagree with his decisions – the constant activity to try and make Kansas better is exactly what we should want in a coach.
It is a harsh world, and decisions have to be made in many cases coldly, and based on the reality of CBB – winning.
I don’t think that we have any doubt that Self’s decisions are geared toward winning. Good stuff.
Give me Chukwu, or give me death!
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@blackmild33 Right on … Vick reclassifies to 2015. Done deal.
Now, does Chukwu visit tomorrow? Is there another shoe to drop? Or are we done?
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@HighEliteMajor ku is out of scholarships unless somebody transfers
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guess we don’t have to worry now, since he announced. but good question on Chukwu, someone stated. walkon would give up scholi, ummmmmmmmmmmmm am I that blind? don’t really think a walk on can give up a scholarship can they? that’s why they are walk on- - - -they don’t have a scholarship t give up, I now think we ARE DONE. don’t really see Paschal coming now for sure.
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When Michigan men’s basketball Austin Hatch took a medical red shirt it opened up a scholarship to recruit a top 10 OAD. If Brannen Greene takes a medical red shirt does it open up a scholarship for KU?
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@Statmachine Exceptional circumstances approved by NCAA. Hip surgery vs. plane crash and prolonged recovery. Not a consideration here, but good point.
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Is Michelson related to the pro golfer?
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So I am counting out everything to make sure I have the roster situation for next year (not WUG) figured out.
I count the following:
Seniors (3) - Ellis, Mickelson (redshirt), Traylor
Juniors (4) - Greene, Lucas (redshirt), Mason, Selden
Soph (2) - Graham, Mykhailiuk
Fresh (3) - Bragg, Diallo, Vick
That’s all of the scholarship guys that I am counting, unless I have missed someone. That means that KU still has one more scholarship for this year. Chukwu and Coleby would both be eligible for the 2016-17 season after sitting out this upcoming year. With Mickelson, Traylor and Ellis all leaving after the 2015-2016 year, I don’t see any reason that we can’t accommodate both players.
Am I missing something? Is my math wrong?
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@Statmachine Austin Hatch is no longer on Michigan’s basketball roster. The exemption they got was a medical hardship so that he could stay on scholarship to complete his degree at Michigan, but his playing career is over and that’s how they cleared that scholarship spot.
@justanotherfan You’re missing Coleby who makes it 13.
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At this point, I hope Chukwu cancels his visit (either he cancels himself of Self cancels for him) now that Vick is officially in the class of 2015. Nothing against him personally as I would’ve preferred him over Coleby, but what’s done is done and now we’re talking about removing a piece of title contender this year to make room for someone who’s nothing but potential at this point in 2016-17.
Why are we trying to find a way to fit Chukwu into the mix now? KU will not be a serious national title contender in 2016-17, they are however a legitimate national title contender in 2015-16 (4th favorite in Vegas). Let come what may in 2016 recruiting, but Bill Self needs to leave this roster alone now and focus on winning the 2015-16 national title starting with the opening of the WUG practices next week. Use Nic Moore to make Mason and Graham better PG’s, use the WUG to develop Ellis and Bragg’s perimeter games because they will see some minutes at the 3 in the WUG because of Greene and Svi being out.
KU is a serious threat to win a national title in 2015-16 and they have been given an opportunity to get an extra month of unlimited practice and some games against top flight competition at this age range. Bill Self needs to take full advantage of this head start he is getting courtesy of USA Basketball.
Paschall Chukwu, you had your opportunity to become a Kansas Jayhawk, you didn’t act quickly enough on it, sorry but it’s time to find another place to play besides Kansas. The road to Houston starts next week with the opening of practice for the WUG.
ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 “KU will not be a serious national title contender in 2016-17.”
Uh, why not? Mason a senior, Graham a junior, Svi a junior, Selden a senior (or maybe Josh Jackson in his place)?
Bragg a sophomore, plus two guys (Chukwu and Coleby) in our system for a full year (assuming we land Chukwu)? Plus recruits, like Bolden? Add in senior Lucas.
Good God man, have you been smokin’ weed?
2016-17 is definitely a potential title year.
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@HighEliteMajor Don’t forget about the over seas trip next summer. Another head start opportunity next summer also.
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@HighEliteMajor Did you order the code red?
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Paschall Chukwu -What does Coach know that we don’t? What happens when a footer visits a campus that has no scholarships available?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 it has already been announced that he’s going to be in 2015
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@HighEliteMajor No, I’m not smoking weed, but I’m wondering about you right now. There’s two things about your rationale right now that don’t line up with how I’ve known you to think.
You were very critical of Bill Self forcing Andrew White III out last year (for who turned out to be Svi) , and now you’re advocating that Bill Self do exactly that (I’m guessing to Greene based on your 2016-17 roster) this offseason. Why the 180, is it personal bias for White and personal bias against Greene?
You yourself called 2016-17 a POTENTIAL title contending team. 2015-16 IS a title contending team. You proposed a lot of what if’s to make KU a title contender in 2016-17 compared to the reality that Mason, Graham, Selden, Greene, Bragg, Lucas, Coleby, and Vick. Svi is currently a projected mid 1st round pick on multiple credible projection sites so he’s not a guarantee for 2016-17. Using what if’s to justify kicking a player off team that is currently a title contender to bring in someone to help a team that might be a title contender is very flawed logic, especially for someone like you.
I get you’re a big fan of Chukwu, I was a big fan of Williams, but Williams isn’t coming to KU and nobody on this team should be sacrificed to make room for Chukwu no matter how big your man crush on him is because nobody in the frontcourt is eligible to transfer and KU doesn’t have the depth in the backcourt to sacrifice someone for a player who won’t help KU on game nights in 2015-16.
@blackmild33 I know Vick has announced for 2015, that was my point in my post. People are still trying to justify kicking someone off the team and bringing in Chukwu now that KU’s scholarships are filled and I think it’s a stupid at this point to do that.
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This Chukwu visit puzzles me, now that Vick has committed. I am happy with our current 13 scholarship players. It seems to me that Mickelson got short changed on playing minutes last season, but I feel good about his senior season. I don’t see Brannen Greene as a good fit for Bill Self Basketball, but I can’t envision Self nudging him out the door. Now that the 13 slots are filled, why would Chukwu waste an official visit to take a looksee in Lawrence? Or is that term “official visit” and subsequent NCAA ruling a moot point for transfer players?
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I believe Chukwu’s proposed visit was for this coming weekend. It’s only Tuesday - i suspect we will hear something by tomorrow or thursday whether he’s changing his plans. We’ve all hashed this out over and over. ! There are no more scholarships.
Can someone, let’s say Mickelson for,example stay in school and on the team but give up his scholarship ? And would Self ever ask a player to consider that ( okay im grasping like everyone else)
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@Texas-Hawk-10 You know I was kidding about the weed comment I hope. Just a little levity.
I do not like the fact that White got run. But at the same time, I like having a coach that is going to make the tough call to create the roster he wants. I may not agree with the decision, but I agree with the approach. No pleasant task. If the coach does not think the player will play (White), or his negatives outweigh the positives (Tharpe), and he clogs a scholarship for what Self perceives to be a better player, then Self is doing the right thing in my opinion.
I think your logic fails here on Chukwu. If we lost either Mickelson, Traylor, or Greene, would you lose any sleep for the coming year? I wouldn’t. I love Greene, but not in Self’s system. Greene’s terrific, but my humble opinion is that Self doesn’t use him the right way. I’ve wasted a number of posts on that topic. I do think we’d be better if we lost Traylor. And with Mickelson, he’s just one big expectancy sitting on the end of the bench – and we got zero from his last season. Our season would have turned out the exact same way without Mickelson. So yes, I’d trade either big guy right now for Chukwu. And because we signed Vick, I’d part with Greene.
But I do respect your position – sticking with “our guys” has a lot of merit. I generally agree with that. It’s just when a guy is scholarship clogger that I might depart.
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@HighEliteMajor I personally wouldn’t be in favor of dumping Traylor or Greene for Chukwu, but if Mickelson were a realistic option, I wouldn’t be opposed to that.
We’re never going to see eye to eye about Traylor value and skill so I’m not going to get into that again. One other aspect is that Jamari hasn’t graduated yet and has already redshirted so forcing him out ends his college career without a degree, that’s a very negative PR hit that would be all over the major sports websites painting Self as a terrible person (and deservedly so IMO) and would have a negative impact on recruiting.
There’s two reasons I’m opposed to forcing Greene out. He’s too good of a shooter to leave alone and he was making strides in his defense before his injury. The other reason is KU doesn’t have the depth on the perimeter to afford dumping a perimeter player. If Greene is forced out, KU would be down to 5 perimeter players (Mason, Graham, Selden, Svi, and Vick) and would struggle to withstand an injury. Also throw in Svi is a projected mid 1st round pick next year on multiple sites and KU’s depth issues on the perimeter could be magnified and landing a quality 2016 becomes the top priority in 2016 recruiting over a big instead of the other way around.
Hunter is the one guy I wouldn’t be opposed to trading out, but there’s not a way to do so without looking bad unless Hunter can fast track an August graduation, but that doesn’t sound like a viable option. Also the same negative PR I mentioned about Jamari applies here in forcing out a senior who’s already redshirted and hasn’t graduated yet.
Of the 3 players you named, the 2 would be seniors aren’t going to graduate before August and therefore can’t transfer unless it’s to a D2 school without ending their careers. And KU doesn’t have the depth to logically send off a guard this offseason. I’m not opposed to making room for Chukwu in theory, but looking at the logistics of how it would have to happen combined with expectations this, that’s where I become opposed to the idea.
Actually, one option I hadn’t thought of and I don’t know if you’ve mentioned is moving a player from scholarship to walk on if the parents have the means. I don’t know the financial status of players parents, but Perry or Landen could be a viable option for this route.
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I might be wrong here but I don’t think we can just have a player pay their way to solve the problem. I thought you could only suit up so many players and if one scholarship player does take one for the team so we can add Chuckwu, then who doesn’t suit up? The obvious answer is a walk-on but man that seems like a tough pill to swallow, and not likely to be a coaches kid.
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@CaptnMo There is no total roster limit, only a scholarship limit of 13. Moving someone off scholarship doesn’t prevent them from dressing up. KU moving someone off scholarship to clear room for Chukwu would put them at 17 total players and 15 players eligible to play in 2015-16, the same number of players KU dressed last season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 as far as parents paying, one reason that came up when Perry was checking out the draft was that his parents were struggling financially. There was a nice piece on the Ellis’s and their work at the children’s home in wichita, on kwch.
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Perry Ellis
http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/how-the-wichita-childrens-home-shaped-perry-ellis/33321852
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Teams require puzzle pieces.
To play for rings they need all the pieces for matchups they are likely to meet in a final four full of footers.
Thus one or more to footers are necessary pieces.
Chukwu, a footer, is a must get.
Self can’t sign 5 star footers in the stack era, because of the embargo by asymmetric stacking.
No one can win a ring moving forward without a footer, because 2 and often three of the Final Four will be footer stacks, and so they will beat you unless Self can match up with at least one footer of his own to go with Self’s counter punching reliance on stretch 4s.
Chukwu has to be signed now because Self might not get another good chance at a footer for a few years. It’s ugly, but Self has to run whomever that he can best do without this season.
Without a footer, with green bigs like Diallo and Bragg, with Coleby just another 4, with BG in rehab limbo, and with weak returning bigs, KU can win another B12, but has slim chance of a ring. Period.
With Chukwu and what Self will return the following season, and the two Adidas 4-5 stars that conveyor brings, KU can play for a ring for one and maybe two seasons.
Vick only matters this season. If he can’t play this season, the Adidas conveyor can bring some one better than him next season. It is harder to embargo perimeter players, because there are so many.
Failing to sign Chukwu now means not only not having all the pieces this season, but likely for three seasons. Three seasons is an eternity in D1.
Coleby was just stop gap insurance for this season and next for Nike reaching out and touching Chukwu.
The only logical reasons for Chukwu and Vick delaying are if: a) sanctions for Cliff are brewing; or b) Fratello/Hill have a foreign footer that is newly thinking about coming to KU to play this season.
Otherwise, this is HITCHCOCK’S LIFEBOAT and one or more get life jackets and put overboard.
Guys get cut in highschool try-outs.
Guys get run in D1.
Always have.
Always will
Self has done better than most at helping place the displaced.
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I’m glad Vick re-classified and I’m excited to see how quickly he picks up on the system. This kid could push Selden to become the player we have been waiting for. Selden finally has some credible competition, just what he needed.
This Chukwu situation will work itself out. I figure he’s still visiting because he’s in the area after visiting Nebraska the past few days. If a scholarship pops up before he decides then KU may have a good chance. At the moment we shouldn’t speculate or count on him being in a KU uniform.
Greene’s not going anywhere, his GF goes to KU and there’s much fanfare on her alone that would make any College kid stick around. Greene has NBA potential and Self will continue to push him to that goal. We are not getting rid of the 1 3-point threat we have.
I have to say Self finished the recruiting season strong and shot down any fears we may have had just a month ago. Bragg & Diallo are studs. Vick could be anything & Coleby has a bunch of upside still so I’d say we did good for both this year and the future.
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In all this talk of who theoretically would Self " run out" to open a spot for Chukwu, we’ve heard Greene, Traylor and mickelson mentioned a lot … But hardly a mention of Lucas … The one guy who cant score a basket if his life depended on it… yes his defense is better and he can rebound some, but…
And i’ll repeat for the third time - if Self and staff REALLY wanted Chukwu and thought he was the key for the next 3 years, they would have kept a spot open til he visited and made Coleby wait (Coleby would have waited by the way - he has expressly said that KU was his dream destination) … didn’t happen did it ? What does that tell you ?
And lastly - of course Self does have to make tough calls on guys, some more tough than others, because his job at a blue-chip program is ultimately is to win … But his job is also to mentor and build up young men and make them better in many ways and prepare them for the future. He has more money than he knows what to do with , and he can get a job in d1 or the nba easily. He cares for his guys and has perspective. His career does not hinge on getting a footer (has anybody done their homework on Chukwu - is he that amazing? ) at the cost of casiering one of his guys.
Btw he LOVES jamari … Not going to happen there fellas
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@Bosthawk Interesting you point out Lucas.
You mention that he (Lucas) is the "one guy who can’t score at the basket if his life depended on it … "
However, the stats tell a bit of a different story regarding him being the “one guy”. Field goal percentages at the rim – Traylor (of course) 54.8%; Ellis 58.1 %; and Lucas 59.3%.
Now, you had said the “one guy” – that’s all I’m refuting. Ellis and Lucas are not good at the rim, and Traylor is really bad for a post player. Thus our issues last season. Thus the constant commentary on why our system didn’t seem to fit our personnel skills last season.
Of course, there were two guys who could actually score at the rim at respectable rates – Cliff - 68.7% and Mickelson 70.7%. By comparison, for what it’s worth, Dwight Coleby was 67.5%.
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@HighEliteMajor Thanks for the helpful stats My impression of lucas was based on perceived playing time vs total points - he just seemed that he could not score very much whe he was on the floor, and when he would get the ball in close he would miss bunnies on a frequent basis. He appeared to me to have almost zero shooting ability. Mickelson also appeared to have more offensive shot skills, but is kinda slow and got pushed around. Traylor seemed to score more total points (again i dont have hard stats to back this up) but of course he was on the floor a LOT more than Lucas and Mickelson. And I suppose too that Lucas is a more effective rebounder and defender than mickelson and traylor stat-wise.
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Chukwu is 7.
By definition he is necessary.
That he runs the floor, jumps and looks like he gets the game means he brings something KU lacks.
Coleby had to be signed too. Coleby covers not signing a footer that can play now. And he creates so many 4s filling at 5 that if Chukwu will commit, Self can flush someone, or med red BG and leave the toilet spring alone. Coleby is zero threat to Chukwu. Coleby was a no brainer.
And LaGerrie isn’t strong enough to impact, or guard much, once the B12 starts. LaGerrie is just back up insurance in an emergency.
Frankly, Self has crapped out recruiting the team’s two immediate needs: a footer and a 3 that can replace Oubre.
He signed what he could get, because he couldn’t sign what was needed.
Lots of pieces are not the same as the needed pieces.
But if he can still sign Chukwu, at least he’ll have the pieces the next year.
Diallo/Bragg with a year’s experience would complement Chukwu/Coleby/Lucas well.
There is no way around the need for a footer.
Self may not get Chukwu, but he is no dummy. He knows he needs him badly and he is hanging in to the bitter end.
And unless Diallo learns to shoot, he is a 2 year guy on skills and height, despite the hype.
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One way Chukwu could come to KU is with an academic scholarship from almost any source. He could become a red-shirt walk-on for this season and then be awarded a scholarship for '16-'17.
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so we are going to run our backup center (maybe starter to begin season) who’s already red-shirted to make way for what??? what is so special about Chukwu that we are contemplating every what if situation besides running Bill Self out of town to give him a scholly. pretty funny stuff around here
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@BeddieKU23 No i agree with you believe me - i was just speculating on why Lucas’s name was not mentioned as possible guys that could be theoretically “run out” when Traylor and Mickelson and greene were mentioned frequently. HEM helpfully pointed out that lucas’s stats are not as i perceived, and Jaybate set me straight on the fact that it’s not an either/or situation with Coleby and Chukwu- we still need a footer 5 guy regardless.
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There are just 8 reasons: the eight teams in the top ten at the end of the season with footers and good perimeter players.
And three of them ruled to the Final Four.
And MSU proved that STACKING has progressed to a point that UCONN’s ring was the end of something, not the start.
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@Bosthawk Lucas is not a good option to force out because the reason for wanting Chukwu is because KU is going to be thin in the front court in 2016-17.
@jaybate-1.0 There’s one flaw in you 7 footer theory, 2 of the last 3 national champs didn’t have a 7 footer on the roster, so it’s not a necessity.
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@Bosthawk You assume right. Yes, Lucas was the best rebounder … appx. .29 per minute. Mickelson .25 and Traylor .18 per minute. Right now, I value Lucas over the other two.
@BeddieKU23 Remember, what we’re talking about is real potential vs. pedestrian.
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It is not a flaw at all IMHO.
The two seasons you cite are irrelevant.
Things have changed.
There are tipping points in everything.
There is a tipping point for how many footers and other talent are required to overwhelm opponents with footers, just as there might be tipping points in how many 450 pound linemen it will take on how many NFL teams one day to turn all of the Super Bowl winners into teams with 450 pound lineman.
Stacking is a quantitative phenomenon occurring within a dynamic game space in which equilibrium strategy keeps altering based on the changing distribution of footers and complementary talent.
Stacking one team with only six great talents at UK did it in 2012.
But we are witnessing narrowing talent distributions that reduce the number of teams that can seriously compete to those with stacking currency, if you will, in this case footers.
Repeating the stack with Nerlen Noels didn’t get it done the next season, so the stacking was increased and focused on footer redundancy, because Nerlen Noels injury proved that complementary talent could not compensate for catastrophic injury. Embiid’s injury proved the same thing for KU.
The system learns. Its a feedback loop. And it has some facets of rational expectations theory; that is there is some inflation of expectation of what it takes to keep getting the same benefit stacking year after stacking year.
There will always be statistical anomalies under any equilibrium strategy, but you have to face the reality that eight of the top ten teams were multi-footer stacks last season and two of the Final Four teams were multi-footer stacks and one had the new Stretch Five Footer, while only one was footerless–MSU–and it got manhandled even though it had the only kind of a coach playing the only kind of style that might be able to be a multi footer stack, other than my idea of shooting 80-90 percent of one’s field goal attempts as treys, which with a 30 second shot clock will become even more feasible to do. But coaches are very slow to take risk. They are highly paid and so risk averse, and so prefer the rigged formula of skewed distribution of footers by Big Shoe-Agent conveyor systems than trying radical new offensive solutions. They know that even if they come up with a better offensive mouse trap, as Self did this past season with Bad Ball, that the refs will intervene and make sure it does not prevail. So the only rational move for coaches is to try to get in on the stacking process and the equilibrium strategy so far for stacking is no more than eight stacks. All these adidas coaches appear to be marking time trying to win conference titles, knowing they likely can’t win a ring anymore, in hopes of hanging around long enough for the powers that be to informally institute a more broadly distributed talent stacking array. Some of them get impatient and give up, like Donovan. Some of the decide its apparently time to switch sides, like Cuonzo. Some of them like Self try to augment the adidas talent with with off-shores and transfers and diamonds in the rough. Self is such a great coach he can keep eeking out conference titles that keep the fans content, while he looks secret passages and little harbors that the blockade hasn’t sealed off.
In the years you cite to try to make your case, you fail to point out that there were not 8 multi-footer stacks in those years, so those years are relevant only if you argue that the era of multi footer stacks of eight are the future.
What appears to be happening is that the system is still oscillating through equilibrium strategies looking for the optimal way to dominate the Final Four AND ensure sufficient talent at the right number of teams to create the statistically probable level of stack dominance to achieve optimum gambling revenues and optimum branding of players at stack programs, which designed Final Fours will enable.
We may see the model reequilibrate at ten stacks of 3 footer per stack, or we may see the model reequilibrate at 12 stacks at two footers per stack, or even three stacks of four footers and an OAD point guard.
The system is a feed back loop that is reconciling the dynamics of shoe branding, gambling, and viewing audience; that is what is my hypothesis of what is going on and your argument is not refuting it. It is just selectively slicing time series data and leaving out shifting equilibrium distributions of talent and and strategy of the feed back loop with the incentive systems that are in place.
Of course, all of the above is hypothesis and speculation.
Rock Chalk!!!
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So what does this have to do with Vick?
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Nothing really. I am just addressing the portion of the thread relating to Chukwu. Vick doesn’t really matter much except for this season. Self failed to get an Oubre replacement and BG got a tough surgery, so Self needs a warm body and LB helped us out it appears. But the adidas conveyor will likely bring us someone better than Vick by next year, unless the adidas conveyor is truly broken.
You see there are always exceptions to rules.
Wiggins was an exception to the rule that long time Nike leans generally are not turned to adidas. And Jaylen Brown is an exception to the rule that adidas leans are not generally turned to Nike.
But the tendency weighs in over time. Next season, the adidas conveyor is likely to spit out a perimeter player better than Vick at 130 whatever that Vick is ranked. Vick could easily be a transfer next season, because of an OAD, and other returning players, or perhaps not if he improves mightily in weight, strength, and skill this coming season.
My argument here is that Vick and Chuckwu are basically independent of each other.
Chuckwu is basically independent of everyone on the team returning and coming in new.
He is the only footer we believe is available to us that could play not this season but next.
We have no reason to believe that KU is going to switch to Nike and so become a stack school. And we have no reason to think that adidas has a enough footers available for next year for Self to get one. If adidas has such a player lined up for Self, well that’s one and he really needs two or more, unless one is a Stretch 5 a la Kaminsky. But the point is that Self will try to sign Chuckwu even if adidas has a footer bun in the oven for him.
Footers are that necessary to winning 80 percent of your games.
Because teams have to have footers in the stack era, and because Chuckwu is available now, he has to be taken, if he wants to play for KU.
Self has fallen from stratospheric winning levels of 82% to human levels of 7os percent the last two years.
He can’t just go back to the type of talent he used to get his first eight years, because there weren’t footer stacks in those days.
Now he has to get himself some footers every year if he’s going to get back up to the sweet spot of 82 percent.
Or he’s got to drastically soften the schedule and accept never getting to the Final Four.
The man plays to win.
He’s going to find a way to get his footers.
It may take him a couple of years to find the crack in the door, but if its there, he will find it.
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@jaybate-1.0 Vick was ranked at 33 and a 5 star on rivals and 51 on espn’s top 100 this morning.
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@jaybate-1.0 Not buying the 7 footer theory because there simply isn’t the volume of 7 footers to do this.
Also, KU already has Oubre’s replacement on the roster, he was signed last year when Self dumped AW3. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk is Kelly Oubre’s replacement.
Also, LaGerald Vick did get bumped up to #33 before he signed with KU which is a similar jump to what Svi made in the rankings last year.
As I debated with HEM yesterday, I personally think it’s stupid to boot someone off of this team that is on the very short list of title contenders this year to prepare for 2016-17 where KU is not guaranteed to be on the short list of title contenders even with Chukwu.
As much as people are talking about building for 2016-17, you’d think KU wasn’t in any kind of position to make the NCAA tournament this year, let alone contend for a national title.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you are stretching the discussion just a bit to fit your narrative. Most everyone thinks KU is a national title contender this season. No doubt. I think that is the consensus, not the exception. However, my position is that if we lost Traylor or Mickelson, it wouldn’t matter one bit. And actually, I think if we lost Traylor we would be better. Addition by subtraction, the Naadir Tharpe way (but for other reasons). In principle, I agree that we should not ditch someone that, if we lost them, it would make us worse for 2015-16.
Greene is an interesting discussion on that line of thought. I think Greene could be tremendous. But as the 5th perimeter guy, and the marginalizing of his one main skill … hitting the step in three pointer … I tend to think we could survive. Because of Vick, I’d part with Greene if it meant Chukwu. That might not be the wise decision, though, I admit.
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I guess this is not about Vick??
Just throwing my two cents out there. After watching the nightmare unfold last year. Two things came to my mind.
One is HCBS doesn’t change his system to the talent he puts on the floor. He expects those players to run his system without question.
Two when HCBS doesn’t have the players to run his system. KU becomes very beatable.
So what do we do? Do we get rid of HCBS? No of course not. However if we are going to keep him then he should recruit to his system, and us fans should let him. I would hate to see any current KU player let go for any reason, but HCBS system requires big men, and Chukwu is a big man.
I say sadly let the chips fall where they may, but sign Chukwu. Scholarships are giving on a yearly basis. Just because you dream of going to the moon, becoming the president of the Untied States or playing for the Kansas Jayhawks doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Especially in this day in age of the shoe wars, media contracts, and conference realignment.
The old days are gone. There is no more time allowed for rebuilding. To survive one must reload. Just look at how far UCLA has fallen. They’re not even the top dog of the West Coast anymore, and they were once a blue blood. The game has changed my friends.
If we keep HCBS then we get big men anyway we can. Even if it means clearing a spot on the roster.
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@HighEliteMajor We can go back and forth all day long about whether or not Traylor, Greene, and Mickelson make KU better, but that’s not a discussion that will ever bear any fruit because we simply have different opinions on Greene and Traylor’s value to Kansas basketball.
In regards to Brannen Greene, let’s say he’s on the court with Mason, Graham, Bragg, and Diallo and KU is in their high-low set. Diallo gets the ball and is double teamed by his man and a guard, KU at that point has three 40%+ 3 point shooters on the floor and one of them is wide open. The ability to discourage double teams in the post because of the 3 point ability of the guards is not something that cannot be overlooked when it comes to making the high-low more effective.
Let me ask you a question about this situation. We both know that Traylor and Mickelson haven’t graduated yet so that rules them out as graduate transfers. Neither player has the disciplinary history that Tharpe did to justify removal, so how does Bill Self remove a would be redshirt senior that hasn’t graduated yet and doesn’t have a history of disciplinary issues without damaging his ability to recruit 4 year players?
Aside from the on court issues, the off court PR damage from kicking a would be redshirt senior off the team for a project player, Chukwu may have a high ceiling but he is a project at this point, I would lose a significant amount of respect for Bill Self for pulling a move like that on a 22-23 year old kid who hasn’t graduated yet.
At this point, the only viable way to land Chukwu would for someone on scholarship to move to walk on status. There’s just not another option that doesn’t hurt KU either on the court or off the court.
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@DoubleDD Since 2001 Bill Self has had 14 players taller than 6’9" on his teams at Illinois and KU. Of those only Embiid and Withey were footers. At Illinois only 2 of them contributed, Cook and Augustine. At KU he has had Kaun, Giles, Niang, Aldrich, Withey, Markief Morris, Lucas, Embiid, and Mickelson. Of those Kaun, Aldrich, Withey, Morris, and Embiid. were important contributors. That means that since 2001 Self has had 7 contributing players over 6’9" with only 2 footers.
There were obviously other front court players who could score down low but they were 6’9" or less. Self needs players that can score down low; however, it is not clear that he needs footers. Would it be nice to have bigger studs. Of course. Is it absolutely necessary? NO. Of course we have won only one NC during that time. On the other hand, when we did cut down the nets the only player on the list, Kaun, came off of the bench.
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Well seems to be a strong opinion by many on this thread that chukwu is essential, and that we need to make room for him somehow. Self should get traylor, mickelson and lucas in a room ( hell, get all the players in the room just so they are PERFECTLY clear on what is the bottom line at KU apparently) and give them a speech like this -
