Marshall to the Big 12?
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@HighEliteMajor I agree we shouldn’t be bashing other coaches that are over achieving. But I also think it’s unfair to think that Self couldn’t have done that with inferior talent at a smaller school. He did overachieve at other schools with lower ranked talent. For some reason it seems like at Kansas we are just unable to develop that chip on the shoulder that Self teams of earlier years had. Maybe they are just too afraid to lose and Self hasn’t been able to properly motivate them. It will be interesting to see what Marshall would do when he has the top talent and is expected to win every year.
And P.S ND deserved to win. They got robbed. Was so hoping that desperation three would have gone in.
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@nuleafjhawk Well, he kicked our talented and competitive butts.
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@HighEliteMajor I try not to bash the other coaches. But, I think Marshall did bring some of it on with his chickenhawks comment. Bashing in response to that, is, my view, warranted to a point. Also, some people just see it as fun…their right I guess… Now, come on, Weber has left himself wide open with some of the things he has said and done…
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@HighEliteMajor Those are all good point, but I have been thinking…Is the talent level gap all that great? Certainly, WSUs experience level is part of the equation. I think our talent level is greater…but maybe not as much as we might think. During WSUs little run in the last 3 years they have had Early, who is an NBA talent. Will Baker and VanVleet play in the league? Probably. Of course, if their talent level is closer to ours than people think that also is a complement to Marshall…if he identified and developed talent that others didn’t identify.
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@FarSideHawk @JRyman Ah, and those are really good points. What will he do with better talent, different dynamics, bigger expectations, more pressure? Waht will he do on a bigger stage? Has he ever had to deal with a player that knows, before he sets foot on campus, that he will eventually make more money than his coach does? You can slay the giants in one game settings here and there (though Marshall’s #1 seed in 2014 got bounced early), but how do you do day in, day out. Thus the good McDermott example. Self has proven that he can win at every level. ORU, Tulsa, Illinois, Kansas. You mentioned the smaller schools – Self’s Elite Eight with Tulsa.
@Hawk8086 You’re hitting on the point of raw talent and developed talent. The Cliff Alexander vs. Thomas Robinson. The Kelly Oubre vs. Travis Releford. The Andrew Wiggins vs. Andrew White. The Stephen Zimmerman vs. Tyler Davis. Yes, I’ll take make chances with developed talent.
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Marshall for all intents and purposes has recruited pretty well since he got there. VanVleet top 100 guy. Same class got Cleanthony Early who turned into a 1st round pick. Same class got Andrew’s brother which had influence in KU ever gettting Andrew. The year before that he pulled in Cotton and Hall, those guys turned into good players. This year he pulled maybe his best recruit yet in Markis McDuffie top 100 kid who can flat our shoot the ball at 6’8. Marshall raised the bar in the MVC, you see how good Northern Iowa was all year.
I think if he does land at Texas he will do fine, maybe even do better which from most people’s opinions won’t be that hard to do. Fertile recruiting area, he inherits a team he can win with from day 1 if the pieces stay and if he can get the 2 top 50 kids to still go there. What’s the worst that can happen? That he turns Texas into the perennial contender against KU that we expect every year. He’s got tourney success, he can help the Big 12 get out of this rut of tournament success in the last few years. I think that his track record sets him up for success if he jumps. The biggest advantage is whoever gets the gig doesn’t have to start from scratch at all. He could help develop Isiah Taylor further just like he helped VanVleet…
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Pitino, Calipari, Izzo, and Coach K in the Elite 8. Coach Self needs to establish himself a regular to make a deep run in the tournament. This year the bracket didn’t help. I would have rather drawn UCLA’s position, they had an easier run to the Sweet 16 than we did. That being said what can be done to improve our team when the lights become the brightest? Is it recruiting? Is it the offense we run? Is it the intensity we play with or don’t play with in the tournament? What does Coach Self need to do to get the Jayhawks consistently in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8?
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“You want to believe Marcus Lee doesn’t want to be apart of a 40-0 season instead of playing at another school where he’s probably already in the off-season. And his exposure playing for UK is higher than anywhere in the country. He’s probably on NBA radar’s for that alone, not including his limited actual game.”
I think the question is… does he develop enough just practicing with a bunch of studs and then getting only a few minutes in games compared to being an integral part of a team where he is counted on for production?
College is where players develop… not the d league. His chance at development is passing him up.
How many alpha dogs are on that team? Towns?
Here is the box score:
Name POS MIN FG 3P FT OREB REB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
Dakari Johnson C 8 0-0 0-0 0-2 0 2 0 0 3 0 2 0
K.A. Towns F 25 10-13 0-0 5-6 1 5 4 2 1 3 4 25
Trey Lyles F 25 4-10 0-0 1-2 3 5 0 1 2 5 2 9
W. Cauley-Stein F 33 3-5 0-0 0-0 2 4 0 0 2 0 1 6
Marcus Lee F 2 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 2
Aaron Harrison G 27 2-7 1-3 1-2 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 6
Devin Booker G 27 4-6 2-3 0-0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 10
And. Harrison G 29 0-2 0-1 7-8 1 3 2 1 0 2 2 7
Tyler Ulis G 24 1-3 1-1 0-0 0 1 2 0 0 0 1 3
How many McDs AAs did basically nothing in that game? Marcus Lee, 2 pts in 2 minutes of game action? Do you think that helped his draft position? Do you think he is seasoning for the NBA? I have seen no improvement in his game this year… but then… he stopped getting his half-minutes down the stretch.
I believe most of these guys are coming back, whether they win it or not, because they have no draft position. Towns is gone… maybe Lyles and Cauley-Stein. Dakari Johnson? Booker is a guy who most likely would be gone this year… but he doesn’t have enough of a stat sheet to go too high in the draft. And what about Ulis? The Harrison brothers? I think the Harrison brothers and Cauley-Stein were smart to come back and they went through some pretty major development in the off season. They may not be at the top of the draft, but they are definitely ticking upward.
There are only so many quality minutes to be played in a game by one team. There are only so many players that can really be counted on for production. The dilution of talent at Kentucky has made it messy and there is only pressure to produce on a few players. The rest just coast and by coasting they are giving up their precious development and opportunity for the bright lights. Yes… every NBA scout watches their games… but they don’t know how to judge a player that gets only 2 minutes of action. If a guy can only get 2 minutes of action on the D1 level, how much action will he get in the NBA? Right… none!
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I think Marshall could be competitive at Texas relatively quickly. He has all the resources he could ever need. He’s a good coach. The only thing that may stop him is ego. He wants to be the number one coach on campus, and at Texas (or Bama) that will never be the case. But that’s his dilemma. I think he would make Texas very good very quickly, unless his ego kept him from recruiting the top players.
As for Calipari, I think he convinces guys that his practices are better prep for the NBA than most college games. Towns gains more from facing Dakari Johnson in practice than he did last night torching Notre Dame’s undersized front line. That matters to NBA scouts because they know guys coming out of Kentucky know how to bring it in practice because they go against legitimate talent every day.
Calipari deserves credit for getting a team full of potential stars to play the right way. They share the ball. They defend. They don’t care who gets credit. They play for each other. They play with poise. Seriously, if it didn’t say Kentucky on the jerseys, I think most people on this site would enjoy this team for being a really good team that plays great team basketball on both ends.
Watching that game last night, I was waiting on UK to panic down the stretch. They never did. I kind of hope they do go undefeated at this point. This is a great team - the kind of team you will tell people about 30 years from now. That’s why I rooted against WSU going undefeated last year. That WSU team wasn’t the kind of team you remember 30 years from now. They weren’t great. People years from now would have looked at them and said they weren’t as good as probably any of the last 10 or 12 NCAA champions. This Kentucky team is historically great enough to stand up over time.
I can’t hate on the Cats at this point. I like good basketball and they play good basketball.
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I put a question mark on Marshall succeeding at Texas because he won’t have his underdog chip to play. But… if I had to guess, I’d say he would be a vast improvement over Barnes.
He might also have some cultural issues in Texas. Barnes is part of the “good ol’ boy” network, and I would never underestimate the value of that. Marshall seems a bit elusive and can come across a bit elitist in his attitude. Maybe he isn’t that way, but perceptions are what counts. I’m not sure that attitude will fly at Texas.
What counts in Texas is being able to rub elbows with donors. Marshall does a great job coaching players… but can he rub elbows successfully with some of the cattlemen and oilmen down south? I’m not sure about that…
Dem sum purdy lade back boyz in Austin!
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@drgnslayr If the Koch brothers are his heroes as someone stated here, he will fit in perfectly in Texas.
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@HighEliteMajor “I’ll take my chances with developed talent.” HEM, how about 3rd year player Brannen Greene? Knowing Bill Self’s system as we do, at this stage of his KU coaching tenure, will/should Bill take his chances with Greene, say an optimistic 20 minutes per game in 2015-16?
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I guess we agree to disagree on a few things. You took the box-score from 1 game. 1 game doesn’t prove anything about Alpha Dog’s they’ve all had their moments, Towns scored 1 point in the game before yesterday.
Towns is top 3 pick maybe even the top pick when it’s all said and done. Stein is top 10 can defensively alter any game. Lyles’s & Booker have done well enough to warrant themselves in the mid first round. I’d be really surprised if either came back. Not a lot of shooters in this draft class so Booker will be in demand. Johnson I believe will come back, it’s a real riches when you have a top 15 7 footer coming off the bench.
Not sure what you see in Lee, he’s a shot-blocking, put-back dunk, lob player. Nothing else about his game says he’d be the feature player in any offense. I do think he benefits from playing against NBA players everyday in practice. He comes back for a Jr. season and he’s got a chance to get minutes and production on a bigger than 2 minute spree. All these players have benefited from playing with each other.
Not sure what the Harrison twins do but we know it will be a group decision. Did they gain any fans from scouts this year that they didn’t get last year probably not. Neither is projected or hyped very high. They can come back again and start. Ulis is good enough to start for any team but his size will always limit his NBA potential. Likely he comes back to get stronger and develop his game further.
As far as scouts judging their players based on limited minutes that can work in either fashion. The more minutes you play the potential more video is available, the more your weaknesses are dissected. The Harrison Twins are perfect examples of that, they were hyped out of High School but their freshman years were inconsistent. They had to come back because they would’t have been drafted otherwise. Cliff Alexander is another where hype beat out production. Great High-School player, but developed slow so his stock tumbled. Then you add in his NCAA issue and you have a sinking ship.
Because a player like Lee has limited minutes he could conceivably go pro and get some GM that is intrigued by his “potential” and grab him. Conventional wisdom would say why would a GM gamble on a player like him, but in the same token that word “potential” seems to mean more than production.
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@justanotherfan I definitely do not like UK or Calipari, but I have to agree. They played smart, unselfish basketball, esp. down the stretch. They did not miss a shot - did not miss a FT. Tightened up D when they needed. No one forced shots. As for Calipari, give him credit as he did what we often want HCBS to do - took advantage of a mismatch. ND had no one who could stop Towns and they got him the ball in the right position every damn time down the court - and he put it in the hole every damn time.
Not generally a ND fan either, but was so hoping they would pull out the win. Also have to admire they way they pass, cut and share the ball - just as they did against WSU. Fun to watch…
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@BeddieKU23 Agree with most of what you wrote. However I can’t picture Stein as a top 10. He has no offensive game inside or out. UK didn’t need that from him with Towns. I can see him as a late first or second round as a defensive backup. But you never know what some NBA gm will do. Possibly someone thinks he will be another uni-brow.
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Stein is a higher pick than you think. Think of him as a Joakim Noah type PlAyer except more athletic. Being able to guard 5 positons at 7 feet is rare and that’s a commodity that nba teams want. His offense has definetly improved and something a team will continue to work with him on. ESPN has him top 10 doubt they are off on that projection stein won them a lot of games
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I’m more than happy to call Cal a slime ball, and I’ve always been a big believer where there is smoke there is a fire. Like my friend said to me this early this year. Why are all these OAD’s going to UK when they could go to another college and be the man instead of being a cog in the UK machine? Money.
However whether Coach Cal cheats at recruiting or not, the fact of the matter the Dude does quite well in the tournament. I’m not sure the guy has ever lost in the first weekend. (I’d have to check on that one).
Think about it like this. The experts said you could never win with that much young talent. He’s done it and is about to do it again. The experts say an undefeated team will never happen again too much competition. Well he’s on the cusp of doing that very thing, and you know what he’s getting even better. I’ve made claims this guy can’t coach, but I’m starting to think I’m wrong. I just hope the guy goes to the NBA, or he’s going to rule over College Basketball.
Also just because your the most hated team in the country doesn’t mean your doing things wrong. It’s means your winning. Look at the Yankees, hell even look at KU. We have our fair share of haters.
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@DoubleDD I believe he lost in the first round of the NIT.
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@sfbahawk Agree with Beddie…Cauley - Stein will be a high pick. Athletic big man that can play defense…the NBA values those guys… and they “experts” have him targeted as a lottery pick.
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Nice. LOL Nice. However does one bad year say scarp it? After all Kentucky is about to play in their third Championship in the last five years. Well unless the Badgers can do some damage man I’m hoping.
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The coaching carousel has begun -
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“Not sure what you see in Lee, he’s a shot-blocking, put-back dunk, lob player. Nothing else about his game says he’d be the feature player in any offense.”
Guess I focus in on Lee because I see potential in him and he’s not getting it. He was as a freshman like a senior Withey. I’d like to have Withey where he is now and 4 years of him!
Lee would have started this year for Kansas! We have a pretty good reputation for putting bigs in the league.
All those guys won’t be going in the draft. There are a lot of good players entering their hat this year and Kentucky won’t completely own the top picks. If guys go out in the second round, they really messed up and should have stayed in school.
It seems crazy… we can’t get a big to start and be “the man” in our hi/lo, even though we have a great reputation for putting bigs in the league, but Kentucky has plenty quality bigs to ride their pine and smile about it?
I still think Stein stays. He is still way too rough for the league. But maybe you are right and he is seen in a better light by the league.
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Interesting read… especially about Lucas. I posted on him as my dream hire as a Self assistant, but pay him big league money and people didn’t take me serious. I guess Lucas is interested in getting into college ball. Sure, it’s Texas and that may mean something. But money talks and BS walks. If Texas doesn’t grab him up, we should. He’ll also bring Maker with him… but then… he’ll basically bring any recruit we could ever want with him.
I would offer him Self-like money to come here with all kinds of extras to build camps in Lawrence. It would benefit him more by just being an assistant coach than a head coach. Lucas should be focused on the big picture… which for him is about being THE all-time best developing coach the game has ever experienced! We could give him that opportunity, and in doing so, we could put a virtual lock on the success of Kansas basketball for decades to come… long after Self retires.
We would OWN college basketball! OWN it! Kentucky would vanish off the screen. They have no reputation for developing players. In fact… of their current stock, many have been developed by Lucas. Of course, he will continue to develop other players besides Jayhawks… but we have his talents all through the college basketball season. And we have an easy avenue for Kansas players to all get special coaching every summer. Perhaps it means Lucas can’t directly instruct Jayhawk players… but he’ll have his own staff to handle that.
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@drgnslayr Schmoozing the alums is very important as you mentioned. I heard more than once that Billy Gillespie didn’t do enough during his short tenure at Kentucky.
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@drgnslayr Nice idea but the time with Lucas would come out of the 20 hours per week of countable athletically related activity.
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Marshall’s staying at WSU
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@VailHawk played his hand well, big fish in a lil pond. Interesting that Texas didn’t want him.
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Texas AD travelling to meet Shaka today.
##AP source: Texas to meet with VCU’s Smart to present offer
Posted: Apr 01, 2015 9:46 PM CDT Updated: Apr 01, 2015 9:46 PM CDT
By JIM VERTUNO AP Sports Writer AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Texas athletic director Steve Patterson is scheduled to travel Thursday to meet with Virginia Commonwealth coach Shaka Smart to make an offer to coach the Longhorns, a person with knowledge of the trip tells The Associated Press.
Texas hopes to introduce Smart as its new coach as early as Friday, according to the person who requested anonymity because the talks with Smart are considered private.
Patterson has zeroed in on Smart since firing Rick Barnes last weekend after 17 seasons. Smart, 37, has been among the hot candidates for several high-profile jobs since leading VCU to the 2011 Final Four.
Smart’s teams have won at least 26 games each of the past six seasons.
Barnes’ Texas teams won three Big 12 titles and made 16 NCAA Tournament appearances. But Texas hasn’t advanced past the first weekend of the tournament since 2008.
Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
