Post Tournament Thoughts
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Only dropped to 7th and 8th in the Coaches and AP poll, respectively. I think we are probably worse than that right now.
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@AsadZ said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
Nice post and analysis.
Regarding Team D, could this be attributed to this year’s having several new players including transfers who are still trying to figure out Self’s D style and philosophy?
No, because the Dayton game showed Self has a core 7 man rotation right now. 5 of those 7 were here last year. The difference is Remy instead of Garrett which is a huge downgrade and JCL instead of Thompson which is an upgrade. Yesufu can help of he cracks the rotation because he is a good defender, but his biggest issue is consistency.
This was a bad defensive team last year and it’s mostly the same pieces again this year.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 - Watching Yesufu, I was impressed with his energy. He may not know what’s expected (he’s learning), but he’s trying hard! Seemed to look for rebounds around the boards and hustled!
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I don’t see a Top 10 team after the tourney… though I expect to see a much better team after Christmas. We usually make a leap after the holidays and as league play gets under way.
Curious… will this be a typical Self team that gets out of the blocks early in league play this year? We have a lot of talent but haven’t always showed it because so many new guys adjusting.
I see so much potential in this team, but also this group is perhaps the hardest to predict from past teams because who knows how some of these guys will play in a few months. I said early on, watch out for someone springing off the bench and becoming a major contributor by the end of the season. For that to happen, it might also mean one of our projected successes falls… or worse… suffers an injury.
This is definitely a “time will tell” team!
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Clemence, Adams and Yesufu will all see increased minutes. Newsflash
- Coach is not all that happy with Dave, having Agbaji go opening tip? I loved the move, but that’s how disgusted coach is with Dave.
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Och has quick ups
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I thought putting Chai dog jumping was a brilliant HOF move. Not only does it put a spur under Dave’s shorts it also gives us a shot at winning jump! And it makes a statement that we need to value every single possession!
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“And it makes a statement that we need to value every single possession!” Now if we only would do so.
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Is there really any value to winning the tip?
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Post tournament thoughts? We’re not horrible, we just expect perfection because we’ve been spoiled. I mean, look at our coaching tree and the coaches that we have spun out - Adolf Rupp, Dean Smith, even Coach Self who was a grad assistant under Larry Brown… That being said, here goes.
Dave doesn’t fit with the players on this team. He is mechanical, not fluid and slows them down. He cost us the Dayton game.
Ochai is a star and MVP of our team. Love me some Och, glad he came back.
Braun is a player. Been a Christian fan from the get go, he just knows the game and knows how to play. When we need a play whatever the type might be, he’s always there it seems.
Remy needs to play, period.
Wilson is struggle city, so far. All due to him sitting out four games? We shall see.
Bench - Clemence and Adams deserve to have some playing time, ditto Yesufu and JCL. Harris isn’t impressive thus far and I like him as a player, but the makeup of our team isn’t the same as last.
Mitch has had some good moments and Pettiford.
Now, break out the firing squad, but as I see it Dave’s minutes need to drastically decrease, Harris’ too as well as those of Wilson.
I would not start Dave. For now, I’d go with Wilson, Braun, Agbaji, Remy and Yesufu. Bench - Clemence and Adams, JCL, Mitch and Pettiford. Dave mixed in here and there, if and or when needed.
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@Marco said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
Post tournament thoughts? We’re not horrible, we just expect perfection because we’ve been spoiled. I mean, look at our coaching tree and the coaches that our program has spun out, my god… That being said, here goes.
Dave doesn’t fit with the players on this team. He is mechanical, not fluid and slows them down. He cost us the Dayton game.
Ochai is a star and MVP of our team. Love me some Och, glad he came back.
Braun is a player. Been a Christian fan from the get go, he just knows the game and knows how to play. When we need a play whatever the type might be, he’s always there it seems.
Remy needs to play, period.
Wilson is struggle city, so far. All due to him sitting out four games? We shall see.
Bench - Clemence and Adams deserve to have some playing time, ditto Yesufu and JCL. Harris isn’t impressive thus far and I like him as a player, but the makeup of our team isn’t the same as last.
Mitch has had some good moments and Pettiford.
Now, break out the firing squad, but as I see it Dave’s minutes need to drastically decrease, Harris’ too as well as those of Wilson.
I would not start Dave. For now, I’d go with Wilson, Braun, Agbaji, Remy and Yesufu. Bench - Clemence and Adams, JCL, Mitch and Pettiford. Dave mixed in here and there, if and or when needed.
Man just seems you got a hard on for Dave. - -To save he cost us the Dayton game is probably the furtherst thing from being right that can be. THE WHOLE FRICKEN TEAM COST US THE DAYTON GAME not just McCormack. Very True Dave is off to a slow start agree , BUT WISLON right now holy crap he is crap at this point - -exactly what the hell has he done? - - go ahead I’ll wait. - - Ya I’ll agree wo know’s Dave might do better coming off the Bench for now , BUT inserting Wilson at the 5 which has been tossed about - - is not the answer - I’m not sure what it is - - -Zach is pretty Mobile can stretch but on the defensive side he is at this point a huge liability - -maybe we play KJ he is athletic but his offensive skills right now are zelch, might be able to cover and others score let him rebound - I dunno , think ya need to back off Dave a bit. We have many many other problems then just Dave at this point
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We better figure out the 5 spot quick. I can see the Kentucky game being an ugly one.
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@rockchalkwyo said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
We better figure out the 5 spot quick. I can see the Kentucky game being an ugly one.
ya Kentucky is improved quite a bit
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@jayballer67 said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
@Marco said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
Post tournament thoughts? We’re not horrible, we just expect perfection because we’ve been spoiled. I mean, look at our coaching tree and the coaches that our program has spun out, my god… That being said, here goes.
Dave doesn’t fit with the players on this team. He is mechanical, not fluid and slows them down. He cost us the Dayton game.
Ochai is a star and MVP of our team. Love me some Och, glad he came back.
Braun is a player. Been a Christian fan from the get go, he just knows the game and knows how to play. When we need a play whatever the type might be, he’s always there it seems.
Remy needs to play, period.
Wilson is struggle city, so far. All due to him sitting out four games? We shall see.
Bench - Clemence and Adams deserve to have some playing time, ditto Yesufu and JCL. Harris isn’t impressive thus far and I like him as a player, but the makeup of our team isn’t the same as last.
Mitch has had some good moments and Pettiford.
Now, break out the firing squad, but as I see it Dave’s minutes need to drastically decrease, Harris’ too as well as those of Wilson.
I would not start Dave. For now, I’d go with Wilson, Braun, Agbaji, Remy and Yesufu. Bench - Clemence and Adams, JCL, Mitch and Pettiford. Dave mixed in here and there, if and or when needed.
Man just seems you got a hard on for Dave. - -To save he cost us the Dayton game is probably the furtherst thing from being right that can be. THE WHOLE FRICKEN TEAM COST US THE DAYTON GAME not just McCormack. Very True Dave is off to a slow start agree , BUT WISLON right now holy crap he is crap at this point - -exactly what the hell has he done? - - go ahead I’ll wait. - - Ya I’ll agree wo know’s Dave might do better coming off the Bench for now , BUT inserting Wilson at the 5 which has been tossed about - - is not the answer - I’m not sure what it is - - -Zach is pretty Mobile can stretch but on the defensive side he is at this point a huge liability - -maybe we play KJ he is athletic but his offensive skills right now are zelch, might be able to cover and others score let him rebound - I dunno , think ya need to back off Dave a bit. We have many many other problems then just Dave at this point
That’s just my opinion. I don’t think that Dave’s abilities match the skilksets and makeup of our team. I think in many ways he hurts the team when he is in the lineup. It is not the same team as last year. You cannot ask four players to change the way that they play to benefit one player while at the same time hurting the team. If Dave had played much against Iona we probably would have lost.
I don’t have a hard on for Dave, his tits aren’t near big enough.
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@Marco said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
@jayballer67 said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
@Marco said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
Post tournament thoughts? We’re not horrible, we just expect perfection because we’ve been spoiled. I mean, look at our coaching tree and the coaches that our program has spun out, my god… That being said, here goes.
Dave doesn’t fit with the players on this team. He is mechanical, not fluid and slows them down. He cost us the Dayton game.
Ochai is a star and MVP of our team. Love me some Och, glad he came back.
Braun is a player. Been a Christian fan from the get go, he just knows the game and knows how to play. When we need a play whatever the type might be, he’s always there it seems.
Remy needs to play, period.
Wilson is struggle city, so far. All due to him sitting out four games? We shall see.
Bench - Clemence and Adams deserve to have some playing time, ditto Yesufu and JCL. Harris isn’t impressive thus far and I like him as a player, but the makeup of our team isn’t the same as last.
Mitch has had some good moments and Pettiford.
Now, break out the firing squad, but as I see it Dave’s minutes need to drastically decrease, Harris’ too as well as those of Wilson.
I would not start Dave. For now, I’d go with Wilson, Braun, Agbaji, Remy and Yesufu. Bench - Clemence and Adams, JCL, Mitch and Pettiford. Dave mixed in here and there, if and or when needed.
Man just seems you got a hard on for Dave. - -To save he cost us the Dayton game is probably the furtherst thing from being right that can be. THE WHOLE FRICKEN TEAM COST US THE DAYTON GAME not just McCormack. Very True Dave is off to a slow start agree , BUT WISLON right now holy crap he is crap at this point - -exactly what the hell has he done? - - go ahead I’ll wait. - - Ya I’ll agree wo know’s Dave might do better coming off the Bench for now , BUT inserting Wilson at the 5 which has been tossed about - - is not the answer - I’m not sure what it is - - -Zach is pretty Mobile can stretch but on the defensive side he is at this point a huge liability - -maybe we play KJ he is athletic but his offensive skills right now are zelch, might be able to cover and others score let him rebound - I dunno , think ya need to back off Dave a bit. We have many many other problems then just Dave at this point
That’s just my opinion. I don’t think that Dave’s abilities match the skilksets and makeup of our team. I think in many ways he hurts the team when he is in the lineup. It is not the same team as last year. You cannot ask four players to change the way that they play to benefit one player while at the same time hurting the team. If Dave had played much against Iona we probably would have lost.
I don’t have a hard on for Dave, his tits aren’t near big enough.
Ewwwwww , not a fan lmao
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@jayballer67 lol okay, maybe a bit much. My point being, he is soft. Wilson and Braun and Och would rebound. Even Yesufu and Clemence and Adams, Mitch too, and they wouldn’t miss chippies while being able to pass the ball and run.
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@BeddieKU23 if the possession arrow is pointed the oppositions way when the final buzzer buzzes then yes.
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@Marco Dave has been better than Wilson thus far. I’d start Dave on a short leash.
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@Marco said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
@jayballer67 lol okay, maybe a bit much. My point being, he is soft. Wilson and Braun and Och would rebound. Even Yesufu and Clemence and Adams, Mitch too, and they wouldn’t miss chippies while being able to pass the ball and run.
oh buddy no your not a bit much it’s fine just preference small and I know you know what I mean lol - as far as the other I have seen Mitch and I myself love Mitch but he has missed chippies - matter of fact airballed some.- Now one thing I will say no matter who it is – if your that close you should go up with authority everybody get the hell out of my way I’m flushing this baby stay down as Chocolate Thunder use to say - this is my time, it;s my play time. - -So far Wilson has been doing NONE of these things you mentioned going on his 4th game and hasn’t a of yet done squat - - has look pretty bad and forced.
Again even though he is not the Anseer but all in all might be the temporary answer - -Maybe we ought to just start KJ at the 5 let him rebound he is athletic, really raw offensively but maybe short term he should at least start
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I think the biggest positive for this year is that even in the games where Och seems to not be FULLY engaged, he’s providing scoring when the opportunities present themselves. Plus when he is turned all the way up, he can go for 30 and completely dominate a game.
Unfortunately, scoring isn’t what this team needs most. We all of the sudden have an abundance of scorers. Braun and Remy can get 20+ if given the looks. And despite what we’ve seen of Dave so far, if he gets it together he’s shown in the past the ability to go for 15+ from time to time.
We’ve scored over 70 in EVERY game. Traditionally, if a Self team can win the race to 70 the defense has been strong enough to get the win. I still believe this team can get there and be DANGEROUS come March.
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I’m not really that worried about big Dave. Just trying to do too much right now. He was VERY effective last year in 25 minutes per game once he got in the groove… set screens and rolls, or gets fed in the post and then first looks to dump it off in the corner. If he’s not double teamed then shoot the 4 footer. Rinse and repeat. If he’s playing against a bigger dude, then bring him out to 6 feet. Other than that, he isn’t what he isn’t.
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Wilson still seems to have covid fog brain like he did against USC. No idea what’s going on with him, but if he eventually clicks and Dave clicks then this team will be pretty darn good.
Kind of sucks seeing a loss like that to Dayton though. Will always be in the back of our minds…
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Also… in defense of big Dave. Self’s offense goes through the post (like it or not), so he ends up with the ball in his hands every time one of the new guys screws up and busts a play and he has to force something up (which is not his strength).
LOL. Not sure why I’m pointing this out, except (after rewatching that game) I think Dave was unfairly blamed for the Dayton loss. /Signing off as the president of the Big Dave fan club.
(And KJ Adams fan club)
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@DanR said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
I think Dave was unfairly blamed for the Dayton loss
Absolutely. If you watch the video in the Jess Newell article carefully, you see that Dave had inside position with a free lane to the rim when Braun got the ball. But Remy took his guy through the paint under the basket, giving the Dayton guy time to move behind Dave. CB hesitated, then passed it in anyway, and Dave tried to back into the lane and received a very iffy charge call.
Newell wrote that Self was mad at Remy for an unscripted move that disrupted the called play.
With the time left, CB should have reversed the ball to the right side, or called a timeout rather than force it in to Dave.
Watch it about 10 times and you see how Remy f’d it up.
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No doubt Remy messed up the play.
Jesse also went on to say that Dave is too dependent on the seal in order to score, which is correct. Dave took himself out of a layup by moving to get open and giving up his inside leverage that he had on the smaller guy. You’ll see Dave do that a lot
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Hell, an argument could be made - and he played great! - that CB cost us the game when he flushed it, then taunted drawing the T. We were up by 15, then came the free throws and possession and they just chipped away. It changed the flow of the entire game, no doubt.
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@approxinfinity I’m not a big fan of grandstanding and or taunting, usually counter-productive.
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@Marco especially when the other team is young and in shambles. Something to rally around.
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@approxinfinity said in Post Tournament Thoughts:
@Marco especially when the other team is young and in shambles. Something to rally around.
I am not saying no… Yeah, it rallied their team, really did. They won the tournament. When they make the NCAA’s I hope that they atleast acknowledge CB lol.
I thought when it happened, “damn Christian, What are you doing!?” Then thought ‘oh well, we’re good.’ But we weren’t. Standing by my previous analysis though, Dave was just horrible.
P.S. - Anthony Grant can coach.
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Self seems confident in Jalen Wilson. Will be something to monitor
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Dave will have better days. Part of this is just mechanical. Getting him the ball with the right spacing and at the right time. But he needs to stop shying away from contact. He needs to know how to go towards the basket without fouling. I just don’t think we should be always going hi/lo. It’s too slow and rigid. We need to play at a faster pace because we have depth and speed. Running a faster offense also makes it easier to speed up our opposition, which is what we want to do. Having more possessions in a game should favor us. Relatively low TOs and a decent conversion rate on offense.
I do like how Self is throwing our guards out there in a mostly 3/4s press.
