Remy to Kansas
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Dave was playing good ball by the end of the season. The start was BAD. But he had a great conference season and I think he will have a good 2021-2022 campaign.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Remy to Kansas:
Dave was playing good ball by the end of the season. The start was BAD. But he had a great conference season and I think he will have a good 2021-2022 campaign.
I didn’t say he wouldn’t.
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@Marco I didn’t say you said he wouldn’t.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Remy to Kansas:
You’re contradicting yourself with your own statements saying Dave isn’t aggressive, yet has a high motor.
I don’t think having a high motor necessarily implies aggressiveness. How many times last year did we pan Dave for his middling rebound numbers or his proclivity to shoot a 12-15 ft. jumper instead of driving to the bucket or his inability to schedule a “block party” ala Doke?
That said, I think there are reasons Dave may not have been as aggressive as he could have been. As you said, last year’s team didn’t have the personnel to carve out space for Dave to operate as well as he may be able to do with next year’s squad, which I agree is being assembled to help unclog the lane.
I think too that Dave was obscured by the shadow of Doke for the early part of last year, trying to hold himself up to unrealistic expectations and trying to be what he isn’t. Towards the latter part of the season you could almost see him emerging from Doke’s massive shadow and playing to his strengths. He also became pretty competent at quickly recognizing double teams and passing out of them. Next year, I think we’ll make people pay big time for using that tactic, which should allow Dave’s more aggressive side to shine.
I think the jury is still out on how aggressive Dave can be, but I wouldn’t conflate a high motor with being aggressive.
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I can concur with everyone on the Dave topic… just maybe worded differently.
Dave has a big motor in some areas… not all areas. He applied his motor to where he knew he could be effective. He limited himself a bit with this for two reasons: first… he was needed to play a lot of minutes and had to try to keep some energy in reserve. Second… to prevent more foul trouble. I feel certain he was coached into “energy management”… and wisely so!
I read Marco’s statement different. Dave will stick out different from the rest on this squad because he is a specialist. He doesn’t have a broad range of “game.” He’s specialized as a low post, sometimes mid-range, scorer. He has no business putting the ball on the floor often, or doing about anything on the perimeter except set screens. Compare to Cam, who has a soft touch from the perimeter, is tough on the drive and with good handles, and has a range of shots to draw from. I think Dave’s brand of basketball will stick out a bit when matched around the other players.
Texas-Hawk gives a good perspective on how this team may be able to do more on offense, including making Dave more effective by using him better on high ball screens, and getting post feeds from different situations instead of last year, which was just a perimeter, structured and stiff, feed to the post. This year Dave should receive a lot more feeds from people on the move, on the dribble.
We can converse all we want but none of us know how this will play out until they lace up and start playing. It blows my mind still from last year how we largely wasted away offensive potential by becoming a team just based on standing on the trey line feeding Dave. As much as I adore Marcus… he was no point guard. I remain firm with my position that the PG is the most important position on any team, even when you have someone like Doke in the paint. Doke was nothing without Dot! Let’s hope we get a version of Remy - Dave going like we did Dot - Doke!
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@drgnslayr said in Remy to Kansas:
He has no business putting the ball on the floor often, or doing about anything on the perimeter except set screens.
100% shooting from beyond the arc last season!
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We should be able to give the laugh emoji in this forum!
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@drgnslayr and that, in a nutshell, is what I was trying to say before before being told that I was full of shit
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@drgnslayr and that, in a nutshell, is what I was trying to say before before being told that I was full of shit
Wait ? -Whaaa ? lmao you being told your full of Shit ? - -Oh that’s not good - -oh ya and umm buddy - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer67 wouldn’t be the first time, right?
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One thing that I am almost certain about (almost), is that it will be a Remy-centric and Wilson/Yesufu dominated offense with alot more dribble drives and kickout 3s.
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Remy to Kansas:
@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@Texas-Hawk-10 it’s not about his style. He is not skilled or aggressive enough to be called a true 5, yet due to his too high a motor, almost mechanical style nor can her play anywhere else. I am saying, he just doesn’t fit with the current line-up.
All of that is a load of bullshit. You’re contradicting yourself with your own statements saying Dave isn’t aggressive, yet has a high motor. You’re letting personal bias against Dave cloud your judgement on how good Dave is. Dave isn’t the most athletic guy out there and guess what lesser athletic basketball players have to be to succeed in basketball? Fundamentally sound which looks a whole helluva lot like being mechanical.
You also clearly don’t realize that Self has built next season’s team around Dave to play to his strengths. Dave and Remy have very complementary skills to execute a lot of pick and roll this season or to just iso Remy opposite of Dave and have easy dishes to Dave of the defense helps off of Dave to cover Remy. Then you got Yesufu, JCL, and Braun all more than capable of lighting it up from deep. Then you’ll end up with Wilson, Clemence, or Cam sitting in the corner on the same side as Remy waiting for a kick out if their man helps on a Remy drive.
This team will not be anywhere near as offensively challenged as last year’s team was. McCormack will be a 15 and 8 guy and the second leading scorer for KU behind Remy Martin next season.
For a guy who seems to think that he knows everything, you tend to overreach and be wrong quite a bit. I know that they won’t be as offensively challenged, which is one of the reasos why I stand by everything that I said. He was important to our team this past season, and I said so. And he will be an important piece this season too, and will undoubtedly play and should. I just don’t want him to play more than about 20 mpg, tops - and I don’t think he will.
The team has morphed is what I’m saying, completely different personnel for a different style. It is not going to nor it should it be a forcefeed Dave in the post offense anymore. I imagine he’ll average about 9 or 10 ppg, which would put him about 4th on the team in scoring. Wilson - if he comes back - will average more than that and probably even Yesufu, Remy the leader ofcourse. And I haven’t even mentioned Braun, Long, C. Martin or any of the others, but you did and while doing so seemed to think that it validated your point while not even coming close.
Got to differ on Dave’s Minutes - he will still average around 15-18 minutes per, true won’t have to be force feed - the floor going to be a lot bigger this Season - -more spread then even before- But Dave will still be to vital of a piece for this team for only 9-10 minutes -
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@jayballer67 wouldn’t be the first time, right?
No not at all lmao - -and tell you what people just don’t realize what that does for me when they talk like that – makes me feel soooo special - makes me tingle all over lmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer67 I’ll take that in a heartbeat, 15 to 18 minutes sounds even better. And yes, he’ll still be an important piece.
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@jayballer67 I’ll take that in a heartbeat, 15 to 18 minutes. And yes, he’ll still be an important piece.
Dam dude I thought you were saying Dave would be getting only 9-10 minutes per game - -instead you were talking points per - still have to disagree a little. I think we probably looking like still Dave getting around 12 - -maybe even possibly 13 a game this Season with the floor even more spread. - -thing is teams won’t be able to clog things up as much as they are going to be forced to guard the outside the wings and such with our new additions - One thing is Dave is a pretty dam good free throw shooter and with Remy being able to distribute I think Dave will get even more opportunities at the line and be a part of the reason for the 12-13 per
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@jayballer67 which is why Dave needs to go to the rack more, because he is a good free throw shooter.
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@BShark said in Remy to Kansas:
Dave can and should get all the minutes he can handle.
No Doubt buddy - - no doubt at all I agree 100 %. As hard as it may be hard to believe , I think Dave is to vital to big of a piece on this upcoming team not to. - -We still going to be 4 around 1 and Dave has to be that 1. - I just myself I think Dave is going to be the one taking the most minutes and then spelled by Mitch & Martin - -the only time I could possibly see an all 5 out type of Scenario would be when Martin is on the floor. Again I will bring up the thing is with Martin is - - IF he can defend at all then when he is on the floor you will see him out stretching the floor which could be a very good thing - Still think Dave IS the one who needs to be on the floor the most
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@jayballer67 which is why Dave needs to go to the rack more, because he is a good free throw shooter.
And with the make up of this upcoming roster that is exactly what I believe you will see happen. - Like people have said Marcus and I love Marcus mainly defensively but anyways Marcus was not a true point guard. - -With Remy being that true point guard I think you will be able to see Dave establish position more often then not and Remy be able to get him the ball with him being in THAT better position and thus more time at the line. - -We missed hm many many times when he had established last year - -would end up throwing around outside instead of going in when he was posed up. - -Thats not going to be the case this year.
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@jayballer67 I don’t advocate for five out, just think that Cam, Clemence and Adams and even Curry will play, drastically cutting into Dave’s minutes. And I don’t that will be a bad thing, different looks and styles. It will be interesting to see who willingly accepts a redshirt this year, because it is a very deep team. If ever there were a year to use an almost two platoon system this would be it. But as we should all know by now, Bill isn’t too down with that idea.
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@jayballer67 I don’t advocate for five out, just think that Cam, Clemence and Adams and even Curry will play, drastically cutting into Dave’s minutes. And I don’t that will be a bad thing, different looks and styles. It will be interesting to see who willingly accepts a redshirt this year, because it is a very deep team. If ever there were a year to use an almost two platoon system this would be it. But as we all should know by now, Bill isn’t too down with that idea.
Adams isn’t close to being ready to play very meaningful minutes - - Clemence probably have a hard time seeing many minutes. - -I think Adams is a serious contender for a red shirt year Like I said I think Dave is your biggest most important of the 5’s - it will be split between Dave , Martin and Mitch if anything
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Reading over CJ Moore’s article on the Athletic about Remy and JCL. It seems to me that Bobby Hurley miiiight not be the best coach.
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@BShark his brother is better than him, and was a much lesser player. I’ve always found that interesting - because Hurley was a great college player, and before his injury even working on a more than solid NBA career - how most great players don’t translate well to being good coaches. I’m not saying all, Howard has already shown that he can coach but most don’t. I have never been able to understand that.
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@drgnslayr and that, in a nutshell, is what I was trying to say before before being told that I was full of shit
Didn’t say you were full of shit, I said you claiming Dave isn’t a 5 or a good fit with this roster is bullshit. If you want to claim I said you’re full of shit, then go right ahead.
@FarmerJayhawk I still stand by my opinion on Mitch that he’d have been better off at the 4 spot last year. I also said as soon as Silvio left the program that Mitch at the 4 was no longer a good option because KU no longer had a game ready 5 to back up Dave other than Mitch. Is Mitch a better offensive player than Jalen? No, but Mitch is a better defender than Wilson is and even if he can’t keep all 4’s in front of him, Mitch is great at altering and blocking shots at the rim which is something that was pretty non-existent out of Wilson last season.
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In CJ Moore’s recent article an unnamed assistant coach talked about how both Dave and Remy will really help each other and how they fit well together.
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I think we can all agree that Remy was a huge get for us and should help take this team to a different level! I know I was really hopeful we would find a plug-n-play PG who already was proven. Bingo! Landing Lands told us this team roster isn’t done changing yet as we go over the allotment. I keep hearing Ochai is gone.
I think we are still recruiting for the coming year… and it won’t surprise me at all if another player is signed soon.
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@drgnslayr said in Remy to Kansas:
I think we can all agree that Remy was a huge get for us and should help take this team to a different level! I know I was really hopeful we would find a plug-n-play PG who already was proven.
I think we are still recruiting for the coming year… and it won’t surprise me at all if another player is signed soon.
Yes! I really couldn’t even have dreamed of such a good addition this late in the game until I heard it was really likely on the 11th.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t say either, not as you are stating them. Said that the roster has kind of evolved away from his skillset, and that his minutes would and should diminish for the team that we have. There’s a reason why Coach brought in the bigs that can shoot, right? I didn’t say that he had no role, which is what you are implying.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 And I say that’s a load of shit. While it’s cool that he’s coming back for team unity and whatnot he will - and for good reason - hardly see the court this year.
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@BShark Probably the biggest pickup in how long? What, three years going on four?
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@Marco said in Remy to Kansas:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t say either, not as you are stating them. Said that the roster has kind of evolved away from his skillset, and that his minutes would and should diminish for the team that we have. There’s a reason why Coach brought in the bigs that can shoot, right? I didn’t say that he had no role, which is what you are implying.
This is where I flat out disagree with you and am saying you are going to be wrong about once the season gets going. Dave McCormack is going to be the second best player on this team behind Remy Martin assuming Martin eventually withdraws from the draft. You don’t make your team better by playing your best post player fewer minutes.
This roster was constructed around’s Dave’s skill set to enhance Dave’s abilities. Remy Martin is an aggressive PG who looks to drive and will open up the pick and roll and high ball screen offense that Dotson ran with Doke to perfection two years ago. This version won’t be that good, but it’ll be really damn effective. The biggest reason it’ll be effective this year is because all the other rotation level players except for Jalen Wilson should be above averge shooters this season which means their guys can’t sag off like last season to double and triple team Dave which was a common occurrence last season and took Dave time to adjust to. Dave will see a lot more one on one this year.
This team is not more athletic than last year, but it is much more skilled and built around players whose skill sets compliment one another.
As for Mitch, I never said anything about Mitch playing big minutes this upcoming season or even being a rotation level guy next season. I’ve already said what I thought rotation next season would look like and Mitch wasn’t there. I said the starters would be R. Martin, Yesufu, Agbaji, Wilson, and McCormack with Harris, Braun, C. Martin being the primary bench guys with Pettiford and Clemence also getting time. With the JCL signing, that’s a pretty strong indicator of Agbaji not returning so JCL can swapped into Agbaji’s role.
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The media sure seems to think Dave will have a big role.
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All I remember from last yr is that most people, fans on here, some experts,
were wanting to bench big dave early on. So, my point is, we should trust coach and let these guys develop. I’m pretty excited to see how the new guys work out. I think some of them might play more than some think. I’m wondering if Juan, remy and yesufu can play at the same? To small?
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@Crimsonorblue22 All three are 6’ or less, not really doable.
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This post is deleted!
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So assuming that Ochai is gone a starting 5 of Dave, Wilson, Lands, Yesufu and Remy?
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Guys , quick question – off topic BUT just Curious so why is it our cool little chat room here on Buckets why is it our comments fall off a lot on Fridays lol ? - -You know I HAVE to get my KU fix but on Fridays or most Fridays become so quiet you could almost hear a jellybean drop lol - Really miss all the interesting Conversation on here - - this is where I get my fix
Especially during the off Season , late Spring and horrible Summers - they just drag till we get back to the fall sports, Thank God there has been so much Basketball activity & the hiring of a new Football Coach has been good for conversation - -don’t go hide now lmao - - I’ll never make it through the Summer. Maybe we need to hold back some hot juicy talk till Fridays ya that’s what we need to do lmao
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My concern with this KU team is that Self, by default, likes a strong defensive team. Problem is, the best players (likely anyway) on this team are probably not defensive stalwarts. That means that Self will almost certainly over play a guy that is a lesser talent because they are an improvement on defense. We have seen that throughout his time at KU.
So how does this team fit together knowing that Self will want some better defensive players on the floor?
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@justanotherfan Who on the bench is a good defensive talent?
- Braun - Meh
- JCL - Meh
- Pettiford - Probably not as a freshman
- Cuffe - Redshirt
- Mitch - was a backup a year ago
- Martin - Doesn’t strike me as a top tier defender
- Clemence - looks like he will need to be in a college weight program first
- Adams - Might get some time, might be too raw
- Curry - Seems like a guy who would foul out in about 18 minutes
Not sure Self has another option than to play the presumed 5 starters as many minutes as they can handle.
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And that’s the problem. There’s the potential that someone will impress Self defensively in the preseason and get way too many minutes. That’s my biggest fear.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Remy to Kansas:
@justanotherfan Who on the bench is a good defensive talent?
- Braun - Meh
- JCL - Meh
- Pettiford - Probably not as a freshman
- Cuffe - Redshirt
- Mitch - was a backup a year ago
- Martin - Doesn’t strike me as a top tier defender
- Clemence - looks like he will need to be in a college weight program first
- Adams - Might get some time, might be too raw
- Curry - Seems like a guy who would foul out in about 18 minutes
Not sure Self has another option than to play the presumed 5 starters as many minutes as they can handle.
And that is the question, now that we pretty well know the roster, what is the starting 5 going to be? Long is a more than decent defender, and he can shoot, I pencil him in and obviously Remi and Dave (I didn’t say he shouldn’t start), Wilson and Yesufu - that’s just a guess. Or maybe Braun over Long?
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@justanotherfan Not seeing it with this bunch… I’d love for you to speculate who that could be, and who’s minutes they would take.
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@justanotherfan said in Remy to Kansas:
My concern with this KU team is that Self, by default, likes a strong defensive team. Problem is, the best players (likely anyway) on this team are probably not defensive stalwarts. That means that Self will almost certainly over play a guy that is a lesser talent because they are an improvement on defense. We have seen that throughout his time at KU. So how does this team fit together knowing that Self will want some better defensive players on the floor?
This is one of the more insightful questions posed in here for a while.
I’m wondering if Self has partially changed his vision. I know he will stand there all day and shout “defense” but in reality it’s not like he is out there in the recruiting world just searching out guys who can defend. And how can he? How can he go out there and recruit based on defensive potential at the D1 level? Recruits mostly focus on offense and selling sizzle.
I think Self just has to recruit with how players fit into the offense and a slight vision of if they can fit in the defense… but it really comes down to players buying in to defense and focusing energy on becoming a better defender. Talk is cheap during recruiting. I think most people think the salesmanship all comes from the coaches trying to win over players. Players also have to sell themselves, too. Like I said, talk is cheap. And Self isn’t going to know what these guys are going to do until they start playing.
I see everyone focusing on a starting lineup. It’s way too soon for that. Obviously, there are players like Dave who should get the nod. Just don’t be surprised if he’s benched through part of November because Self thinks he should produce more. We all know how Self is capable of benching someone for a while to help motivate.
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Great conversation. On a Friday nonetheless!
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@drgnslayr agreed. Self hasn’t had a good defensive team since 2011-12. He has had good defensive players, and often not one of the most talented 5 offensively, I’m with @justanotherfan along that line of thought. I’m not as worried about a big getting minutes even if he can’t shoot than I am a guard. The logical candidate for this honor of the guards is Dajuan, and I think he’s a very good passer, which Marcus was not, and so is still offensively gifted even if his shot needs work. I feel like Dajuan makes our offense better, as long as he has enough other players on the floor that can shoot the 3.
I am prepared to be wrong about not worrying about the bigs scoring or spreading the floor. Hopefully they are mobile defenders though (unlike Doke pre transformation against Villanova) and can guard the perimeter so nullify offensive inefficiencies.
To me the biggest questionmark is what we will get out of Jalen and Christian. I think they will defer to the alpha dogs Yesufu Martin and Dave. We need consistency from them. I have a feeling they might struggle a bit to contribute when their roles change to support roles, especially since they aren’t plus defenders. If that happens I could see someone taking their minutes.maybe one of them falling out of the rotation.
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@approxinfinity said in Remy to Kansas:
@drgnslayr agreed. Self hasn’t had a good defensive team since 2011-12.
https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2020
https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2016
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@BShark tHeY jUsT dIdNt FeEl GoOd
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OK 2020 doesn’t count, as unfair as that is to say. 2016 didn’t feel like a good defensive team.
Look at that roster and tell me you think “good defensive team”.
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@approxinfinity Well, I for one think you must not be giving Tucker Vang and Clay Young enough credit…
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@approxinfinity said in Remy to Kansas:
OK 2020 doesn’t count, as unfair as that is to say. 2016 didn’t feel like a good defensive team.
Look at that roster and tell me you think “good defensive team”.
Why doesn’t 2020 count? They played 31 games which seems likeore than enough to be able to claim that was an elite defensive team because that was an elite defensive team.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 yeah. We just didn’t get to see it play out in the post season, the ultimate testing ground.
