RIP Jalen Wilson
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Honestly I think the risk of Wilson going pro early is overblown. Check out guys ranked 40-55 in the 247 composite from 15-17. Most are still in school, and many of those that did declare had extenuating circumstances.
Pretty much my belief. A 50ish ranked recruit in a very weak recruiting class that would be in the 60-75 range in normal years isn’t very likely to leave early for professional basketball. Wilson also doesn’t have an NBA skill set even if he reached his ceiling at KU. He’s about 80% Perry Ellis and 20% Svi mixture. Wilson is a better shooter than Ellis was, but he’s a poor rebounder for his size, isn’t very athletic, and plays below the rim.
There’s very little about Jalen Wilson’s game and skill set that says he’ll be an NBA player at any point in his career.
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dylans said:
Ben McLemore
I thought he had to sit out for academic reasons. But he was pretty dang good after that year off, regardless.
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@DanR correct. He would have played right away if he was eligible.
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Same deal with Jamari. I don’t know if he got any better with the off year, but he was about as raw as possible to start with.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Morningstar redshirted the title year and was a major factor for the next 3 years primarily as a starter.
How could I forget about Brady!
Mario Little sat out a year also after his JuCo stint.
All right, I’m starting to get on board with the redshirt for Jalen if it’s possible.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It’s not.
The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won’t get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can’t recoup when he leaves early. It’s not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).
But, you know, just creating a narrative.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It’s not.
The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won’t get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can’t recoup when he leaves early. It’s not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).
But, you know, just creating a narrative.
You try tracking. There is no official deadline to apply for a medical redshirt until 2023 for Wilson because that’s when it become necessary. If he plays this year and left early, the redshirt decision doesn’t matter. If Jalen sits this year and eventually leaves early, the redshirt decision doesn’t matter. That’s why it’s a moot point if Jalen leaves early.
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BShark said:
@DanR correct. He would have played right away if he was eligible.
A technicality, but I do think it was a redshirt year.
@Kcmatt7 Landen Lucas may have had a bigger impact due to 4 years played, but I think some may argue that impact was akin to being championship blocked.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Try tracking here. You claim the redshirt decision is moot if he leaves early. It’s not.
The medical redshirt decision DOES matter IF he turns pro before his eligibility expires. Why? Because if we chooses the redshirt, then he won’t get to play this season and loses his PT this season (and we lose his services for that time). That is lost playing time that he/we can’t recoup when he leaves early. It’s not moot at all if he ends up leaving early. Where it is moot is if we get the redshirt AND he stays for his entire eligibility. Taht way we get the full amount of his services and he gets a full amount of college PT (four seasons of PT).
But, you know, just creating a narrative.
You try tracking. There is no official deadline to apply for a medical redshirt until 2023 for Wilson because that’s when it become necessary. If he plays this year and left early, the redshirt decision doesn’t matter. If Jalen sits this year and eventually leaves early, the redshirt decision doesn’t matter. That’s why it’s a moot point if Jalen leaves early.
Now you look like a fool. If he does not play this season, taking the redshirt, AND he ends up leaving early, he lost the playing time for THIS season. And we lost his services for THIS season. We can’t get that back. He can’t get that back. **His games played are lower.**That makes the decision clearly NOT moot and the decision DOES matter.
Example 1 - He comes back Feb 1 and Self plays him in 13 more games this season. Next season he plays 38 games. The following season he plays 36 games. Turns pro. Total games 87 games played .
Example 2 - He does not play anymore this season (redshirt). Next season he plays 38 games. The following season he plays 36 games. Turns pro. Total games 74 games played.
Not moot. The decision DOES matter even if he turns pro early. He/we lose games. Comprehend?
How hard is this?
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Always fun to see people arguing with each other over conjecture.
HEM, you misunderstood his initial use of “moot”. TexHawk used the term in discussing how Wilson’s potential 5th year impact at KU would change for the team if he left early due to going pro or by transferring out. He suggested if Wilson transferred out then he was likely not going to have a big role on the team that year anyway. Thus, “moot” was limited to the context of whether KU would benefit from Wilson’s 5th year.
Your points are well-taken about all the other possible ways both KU and Wilson could benefit starting this year by not redshirting. But whether he benefits KU 4 years from now would indeed AT THAT POINT be moot if he leaves after 3 no matter the cause.
As always, trying to find understanding rather than leaping to snippiness and name-calling might help.
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@mayjay Thank you for your ability to comprehend my initial post.
@HighEliteMajor if Jalen Wilson never plays year 5 whether at KU or elsewhere because he developed enough to turn pro before then, the redshirt issue is moot because it wouldn’t be necessary regardless of whether he played at any point this season or not. But again, thank you for creating a narrative that wasn’t there by changing the context of a post. Have a nice day.
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@mayjay - Nope, sorry. He said, “If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.”
My example holds. It’s not moot because if he leaves early then a if he sits out this season he loses games. You’re not following and you make the same mistake he did. You ignore the fact that Wilson loses games of the decision is made to sit him out this season (which is the redshirt decision). If we play him he can’t redshirt.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t change the context of your post.
Tell me, then, if the decision is made to sit him now and not play him (thus the redshirt approach), how is it moot if he loses those games he could have played this season?
The decision has to be made now. Because if you don’t sit him now, you can’t have a redshirt. See … it’s not moot then or now.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@mayjay - Nope, sorry. He said, “If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.”
My example holds. It’s not moot because if he leaves early then a if he sits out this season he loses games. You’re not following and you make the same mistake he did. You ignore the fact that Wilson loses games of the decision is made to sit him out this season (which is the redshirt decision). If we play him he can’t redshirt.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t change the context of your post.
Tell me, then, if the decision is made to sit him now and not play him (thus the redshirt approach), how is it moot if he loses those games he could have played this season?
The decision has to be made now. Because if you don’t sit him now, you can’t have a redshirt. See … it’s not moot then or now.
Thanks for proving my point that you take people’s comments out of context to create your own narrative. My narrative this entire time has been that if Jalen Wilson left KU early to turn pro, it doesn’t matter if he played this year or not because the redshirt issue would never come up for debate. There would be no “what if’s” about Jalen in 2023-24 because he would already be gone from KU.
If Jalen plays this year and gets to 2023-24, there will always be “what if’s” about sitting Jalen this year.
Been my point the entire time, but keep claiming I’m making some other point when my statements have been the same this entire debate.
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The decision has to be made NOW, not later. By holding him out. That decision costs games. That is the decision. Regardless of when the technical redshirt is granted.
If he leaves early, the decision to redshirt … by not playing him … is not moot.
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Good thing it’s jalens w/his parents and coach’s decision. I’m sure the dr/trainer is helpful too
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One thing I might say , I’m not so sure Jalen will be leaving early. Might very well be that 4 year player. Something that will have to play it’self out I know - -I’m just not really that sure , think he gonna have to have some really good yrs ahead. - -So that’s yet to be determined
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I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.
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Glad we solved that!
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benshawks08 said:
I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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jayballer73 said:
benshawks08 said:
I think this whole debate is moo. It’s like a cows opinion. It doesn’t matter.
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Oink
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@benshawks08
I have no beef with that. You are right–this is a bunch of bull, udder nonsense in fact. Can you steer us somewhere better? Just steak out a position and let us know.Sorry for milking this so much. I herd that people hate puns but I won’t be cowed.
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@Crimsonorblue22 just take it by the horns
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Just one big cow pattie!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Hay–how ya doin’? Getting far afield, aren’t we?
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@Crimsonorblue22 You can run but not hide!
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@mayjay time to pen this up and hit the hay!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Hope nobody pulls a calf before it’s over!
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@FarmerJayhawk ewww me either, seen it before, close enough.
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You guys are milking this for all its worth.
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Well, I guess I throw out too much bull-sh**. I seem to have butchered this one. No one was amoosed. My apologies. Time to hide for a while.
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The only reason for Wilson to redshirt would be if he is still not ready to go come mid-February. If able to go I think that he will contribute in a variety of ways, like at the 4 rebounding the ball and getting put backs, even stepping out for the occasional three. If able to play coach will play him.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
@Crimsonorblue22 Hope nobody pulls a calf before it’s over!
Well I didn’t pull one, but I did have to warm a calf up on my floorboard this week. Little dude got to cruise the country side for 5 hours before finally coming g back to life. (Pretty neat when they live). No pun here sorry.
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@dylans You and Billy Crystal! Congrats! Did you name him Norman?
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@mayjay lol I named him after his momma - 417.
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@dylans Much more satisfying than trying to educate K State farmers, I would guess!
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@mayjay lol smarter subjects.
Gotta stay busy in the winter, I’d hate to have some time off.
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@dylans ahhhh! Maybe @HighEliteMajor could hide out there around your place? No inner city violence there either. He could pull some calves and milk some cows. Etc, farm chores.
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https://twitter.com/dodo/status/1213943253428404224?s=21
He wanted to go! At least we are not this bad! I’m not, well maybe w/my dog?🥴
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Self reports Wilson doing more but not a full practice participant.
They expect to make a decision within 2 weeks on his season.
Jalen says he wants to play if healthy, family supportive.
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It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.
Can he help this team at this point? I’m struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We’ll have to see where they go with this one…
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Jalen makes a nice quick-twitch cut and run to catch a pass in this video. Coach puts some zip on the ball, too!
Nice to see the team having some fun. Hopefully it will bring out some of that ‘personality’ Coach feels is lacking a bit on the court.
https://www.facebook.com/KansasBasketball/videos/785298881969182/
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BeddieKU23 said:
It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.
Can he help this team at this point? I’m struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We’ll have to see where they go with this one…
Well Enaruna has become unplayable for Bill and while Jalen didn’t look the best early if he is going to be played at the 4, guarding a wing or even a post player and can help space the floor that is at least intriguing.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
It would have been interesting to see where he might be in his development without the injury.
Can he help this team at this point? I’m struggling to see where both from a chemistry and performance standpoint. We’ll have to see where they go with this one…
Well Enaruna has become unplayable for Bill and while Jalen didn’t look the best early if he is going to be played at the 4, guarding a wing or even a post player and can help space the floor that is at least intriguing.
It sounds good, I really wish he was the type of talent you just rush in to try and see what he has but I dont think that’s the case with how Self runs his offense and his expectations on defense. I have always been extremely high on Wilson and I dont want to see him transfer away at any cost. If he could really add some meaningful minutes to perimeter scoring while also defending at a level like Moss I’m all for it.
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Lace your chucks young man. Your up
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BeddieKU23 said:
Lace your chucks young man. Your up
is he physically ready ?
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jayballer73 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Lace your chucks young man. Your up
is he physically ready ?
Nope but this changes everything now. KU may have 7 eligible players for the foreseeable future. There’s an opportunity if he can get healthy.
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Some talking about Marcus and suspension . What did I miss , did he throw a punch? - I’ve heard some say he was pushing BUT just trying to separate people. - -Anyone? what did anyone else see with Marcus.
Actually after watching other angles it actually looks like the juco point guard for K-State , is actually the guy that throws the 1st punch. - As far as Silvio several saying they think his days at KU are over. Some saying they would be surprised if he was on the KU roster at the end of the day.
The big thing here is even with what Bill thinks, this is now over his head. - Like has been stated this has now become an administration decision. - The AD decision - - the Conference decision , I think Long trying to save face for KU - -hell Chancellor may be involved saying face for KU. - This is where Silvio being told to pack it up comes into effect. - We got enough issues going on with the NCAA at this point , thinking maybe we don’t need any extra fire. - nothing will surprise me at this point.
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Marcus was in the corner doing something to I believe James Love. Dave was also in that corner. It wasn’t all on the up and up. If I was reviewing tape, I think it would be debatable on him getting a 1 game suspension.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Marcus was in the corner doing something to I believe James Love. Dave was also in that corner. It wasn’t all on the up and up. If I was reviewing tape, I think it would be debatable on him getting a 1 game suspension.
that’s just lovely. it was just a really ugly situation
