RIP Jalen Wilson
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@BeddieKU23 yeah, I don’t think he was ready this year anyway.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 yeah, I don’t think he was ready this year anyway.
Looked that way to start the year. I think he would have been a guy that would have come on in Jan/February when things slowed down. Sucks he loses the year but he may have sat and been discouraged as well so it could be a blessing
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https://twitter.com/mctait/status/1212853607978151941
#KUbball freshman Jalen Wilson is on the court but going at what KU coach Bill Self described as “a snail’s pace” Still a couple of weeks away from being cleared fully. Self said no decision has been made about red-shirting him. All depends on health & how he fits in when back…
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BShark said:
https://twitter.com/mctait/status/1212853607978151941
#KUbball freshman Jalen Wilson is on the court but going at what KU coach Bill Self described as “a snail’s pace” Still a couple of weeks away from being cleared fully. Self said no decision has been made about red-shirting him. All depends on health & how he fits in when back…
hmmm well that’s interesting. - -Hell I thought that had already made that decision about him red-shirting.
So the question becomes - -do we want him to come back for the remainder of this season? - - OR just redshirt him and know for sure 100 % healed - might help us yet this year - - BUT I just dunno. - -What we think ? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I think we need shooting badly and he might actually fit at the 4. I felt like Wilson possibly returning was less important when it looked like Enaruna might develop into a nice piece this year. However Braun is coming along rather nicely. I trust Bill to make a good decision on it either way.
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Self said he would be able to go full in two weeks, and then lets say 2 weeks of practice after that he could be ready to go Feb 1. Will be very interesting to see what he does. Obviously a lot will depend on what Braun and Tristan do the next 3-4 weeks.
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@jayballer73 My opinion is that he should redshirt…unless someone someone gets injured…then we might need him if available.
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Woodrow said:
Self said he would be able to go full in two weeks, and then lets say 2 weeks of practice after that he could be ready to go Feb 1. Will be very interesting to see what he does. Obviously a lot will depend on what Braun and Tristan do the next 3-4 weeks.
Braun has been what I would call solid for the last three games. Though honestly UMKC hardly counts.
WVU is always a toughness test.
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Hawk8086 said:
@jayballer73 My opinion is that he should redshirt…unless someone someone gets injured…then we might need him if available.
just don’t know. - -I mean I agree with you , think by the time he is fully recovered someone mentioned by Feb 1 - - -makes it pretty late by the time you work him back in get some PT - just not sure how much he could fully help us at the point in the year.
Like you say seems almost like a wasted year for him - - unless Tristian or Braun one or the other get hurt - I truly just don’t know
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In a perfect world he redshirts and plays 4 full years for Kansas. I just hope he does whatever gives him/the team the best outcome. (i.e. if he’s leaving early he just as well play)
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Unless he just comes back naturally ready to contribute why waste the yr?
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He’s so far behind, can’t imagine him contributing, especially on D
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We’ll see how he and the team are playing a month from now, but I don’t see the fit. I think Enaruna and Braun would be ahead of him, so that makes him the 10th man. Get him healthy and ready to compete next year. Going to need him.
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I can see the fit if he’s knocking down 3’s.
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@FarmerJayhawk bet
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@BShark Seriously. Who can’t see a spot for a guy who can play a stretch 4 and shoot 3’s on this team? That’s some lack of vision.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@BShark Seriously. Who can’t see a spot for a guy who can play a stretch 4 and shoot 3’s on this team? That’s some lack of vision.
Yep I’m sure a guy who’s played 2 minutes all season and hasn’t practiced in months will come in, play 15-20 minutes per night and shoot a better % from 3 than he’s ever shot in his entire life. But seriously, who’s he passing to get into the rotation when he wasn’t in the rotation to start the year?
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@FarmerJayhawk Braun. Enaruna. Moss. Any KU guard who is struggling. People are high on Braun right now and low on Enaruna. A while ago people were high on Enaruna and low on Braun. A guy like Jalen Wilson who can play at the 4 and knock down 3’s is going to find minutes on a team where freshman struggle or heaven forbid players get injured. I never said it would be 15-20 minutes per game.
What are you going to say when it happens?
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@FarmerJayhawk Braun. Enaruna. Moss. Any KU guard who is struggling. People are high on Braun right now and low on Enaruna. A while ago people were high on Enaruna and low on Braun. A guy like Jalen Wilson who can play at the 4 and knock down 3’s is going to find minutes on a team where freshman struggle or heaven forbid players get injured. I never said it would be 15-20 minutes per game.
What are you going to say when it happens?
If it happens, Bill Self will once again prove he’s better at coaching basketball than me. If someone gets hurt that’s an entirely different question.
And to reiterate my point. Not saying Wilson can’t play or be a contributor. I’m just skeptical of him coming in after a pretty nasty injury and being a significant piece of the puzzle and if it were me I’d redshirt him.
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@FarmerJayhawk And by the way I said people who can’t see Jalen fitting with this team lack vision. Somehow that became Jalen would play 15-20 minutes per game and shoot a better % from 3 than he ever has.
And he doesn’t need to pass anyone in the rotation to get minutes. Braun and Enaruna are behind Dotson, Garrett, Ochai, and probably Moss in the rotation and they still get minutes.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@FarmerJayhawk And by the way I said people who can’t see Jalen fitting with this team lack vision. Somehow that became Jalen would play 15-20 minutes per game and shoot a better % from 3 than he ever has.
And he doesn’t need to pass anyone in the rotation to get minutes. Braun and Enaruna are behind Dotson, Garrett, Ochai, and probably Moss in the rotation and they still get minutes.
I can read. You said if he’s knocking down 3’s. Well here’s the deal: he’s not a great 3 point shooter, low-mid 30’s at best behind the college line and is coming off a severe leg injury. Not ideal for shooting.
By definition for Wilson to get minutes he has to take them from someone. How many minutes has Self played the 10th man historically? Like 3?
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@FarmerJayhawk Even small puzzle pieces can fit with the team. I think there’s a role for Jalen to play on this year’s KU team and I think we have a good shot at making a deep run in the tournament. If there’s one game in March where Jalen’s shooting is the difference between winning and losing then I want him to play this season.
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@FarmerJayhawk You aren’t the coach. You don’t decide whether or not Jalen is the 10th man. You don’t decide how many minutes he does play if he is the 10th man.
Dotson, Marcus, Ochai, Doke are getting minutes. After that? If anyone else isn’t having a great game I could easily see Jalen taking that player’s minutes for that particular game.
We’ll see. I don’t think Self has a definite rotation beyond maybe 4 or 5 players at this point.
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There’s more than shooting w/coach. I saw a lil of jalen and he didn’t look good at all on D. Lost his man, came right out. I think we’d all be fine if he’s the player u think!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Did he? We should probably never play him then. Freshman rarely improve.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich oh smart guy.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich not like he has time to really work on improving, I did just say I hope he works out like u want. Jeez
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I think there’s a role for him on this year’s team if he plays. That’s it.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@FarmerJayhawk You aren’t the coach. You don’t decide whether or not Jalen is the 10th man. You don’t decide how many minutes he does play if he is the 10th man.
Dotson, Marcus, Ochai, Doke are getting minutes. After that? If anyone else isn’t having a great game I could easily see Jalen taking that player’s minutes for that particular game.
We’ll see. I don’t think Self has a definite rotation beyond maybe 4 or 5 players at this point.
Ummm… no s#!+ I’m not the coach. Not sure where you were going with that. I just asked how many minutes Self (who is the coach) has played the 10th guy historically.
Well, Wilson could improve but it’ll be hard to come back and meet Self’s standards on defense when A) he’s never been a particularly good defender and B ) he wouldn’t have played real minutes in 3+ months by the time he’s back.
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@FarmerJayhawk Were you actually looking for an answer to that question? I think you already know. Your post implied that he would be the 10th man in the rotation if he played. I’m saying that Self probably isn’t even sure who the 6th man in his rotation is yet, and that minutes for rotation players 6-10 are still up in the air.
Yes, he will have to get better defensively and improve in other areas as well. Will he? I don’t know. He’s a freshman. I certainly think he deserves the opportunity to try this season if he wants to.
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At this point Silvio is the last guy on the roster. Never would have guessed that going into the season.
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Wilson isn’t ready to contribute. You can dream, but him playing less than 5 minutes per game isn’t worth burning his redshirt. He isn’t a knockdown shooter. He is a cinderblock feet defender. He’s a below the rim player. I thought he was a project when he signed. Honestly, I pegged him as a transfer candidate because I thought he’d see no minutes come conference play, get pissed, and leave.
At this point, you might as well play 4 guards instead of Wilson because they’ll be better defensively and, in my opinion, better offensively. Wilson has a long ways to go before he should ever see the floor. He will have to develop a finesse game on offense and I’m not sure he’ll ever develop enough defensively that we won’t get frustrated by him.
The gain to playing him and burning his redshirt is minimal. Keeping him here 4 full years and him walking out with a Master’s Degree is the smart move. And I think Jalen and Self will come to that conclusion.
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BShark said:
At this point Silvio is the last guy on the roster. Never would have guessed that going into the season.
Unbelievable. Expected him to come in and be a monster. All mental. It’s like the game never slowed down for him.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@FarmerJayhawk Were you actually looking for an answer to that question? I think you already know. Your post implied that he would be the 10th man in the rotation if he played. I’m saying that Self probably isn’t even sure who the 6th man in his rotation is yet, and that minutes for rotation players 6-10 are still up in the air.
Yes, he will have to get better defensively and improve in other areas as well. Will he? I don’t know. He’s a freshman. I certainly think he deserves the opportunity to try this season if he wants to.
It was rhetorical. How has he earned an opportunity? If he comes in and lights it up in practice then I’d agree but barring that he hasn’t earned anything but a spot next to Mitch
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We have seen zilch of Wilson’s ability to defend, especially the 4.
I get your point about having another shooter available. Not sure it outweighs everything else
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I’m puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he’ll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.
But heading into the season I think most everyone thought he was more game ready than Enaruna, with Enaruna having more upside.
I understood that Wilson has decent three point shooting ability. To me, that’s 33-35%. Wiggins was in that range as I recall. But that doesn’t make the big impact it would take to shoot Wilson up the PT pecking order. 40% would. Don’t know about that from any freshman.
If he comes back say Feb. 1., we have a very busy February and early March of games. This could have him in decent position to help come tourney time. It is reasonable to the think that he could surpass Enaruna, but I don’t think anyone will expect that. I’d expect Enaruna to make the leap before I’d expect Wilson to. But Enaruna’s shooting was always considered an issue (switching dominant shooting hands, etc.)
There’s no answer here. But to foreclose it as a reasonable possibility doesn’t make much sense. Wilson has a lot to overcome – freshman, no real PT, guys that have that experience now, coming off a big injury, etc. It’s an uphill battle to be sure.
On redshirting (a practical consideration) the only way you redshirt a kid is IF he is a four year player. Here, he could play this season and still have three left. Odds are he’ll be gone then anyway to the pros. But if the pow-wow between player and coach says that he will like be a full term guy, then I guess we should redshirt. Another reason NOT to redshirt (from the KU perspective) is that he could graduate and leave the program when he reaches year five. So we’d only get him three full seasons anyway.
Personally, I would play him every minute Self thinks he deserves. All we lose is a possible 4th year. And in four years, heck, we might be bowing to an Ayatollah. Or CBB might have free agency. Play him what Self thinks is deserving.
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HighEliteMajor said:
I’m puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he’ll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.
When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn’t played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn’t red shirt he is completely wasting a year.
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Here’s my take: He doesn’t redshirt because–like most top 50 ranked freshmen basketball players–he’s not planning to be here for 4 years anyway.
Personally, I hope he does not redshirt. He’ll be better next year if he sees the floor just a little bit this year even if he doesn’t contribute meaningful minutes.
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I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio’s involuntary year didn’t seem to do him any good. I’m worried Mitch will regress with an off year.
Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)
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DanR said:
I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio’s involuntary year didn’t seem to do him any good. I’m worried Mitch will regress with an off year.
Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)
Morningstar redshirted the title year and was a major factor for the next 3 years primarily as a starter.
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My question on Wilson is he even eligible for a traditional redshirt this season or would KU have to apply for a medical redshirt for this season down the line since Wilson played 2 minutes against Duke?
If he’s eligibile for a traditional redshirt, I would be in favor of that because there’s very little about Wilson’s game that makes me think he won’t be a 4 year player.
If Wilson isn’t eligible for a traditional redshirt and would have to go the medical route, I would hold him out until he would still be eligible to obtain a medical redshirt then stash him on the bench as depth.
Of the 3 freshmen this season, Enaruna is still the one I’m highest on long term because of his size, skill, and athleticism and the one with the best chance to leave early.
Braun is playing better than Enaruna at the moment, but he’s also already closer to what his ceiling is so I don’t see him developing significantly more going forward and will be a fan favorite because of his effort. He’s going to replace Garrett as the glue guy that does a lot of little things to make his team better.
Wilson looks like someone who will be in college until he exhausts his eligibility whether that’s after 2022-23 or 2023-24. His game reminds me a lot of Perry Ellis with a little bit of Svi mixed in. Like Ellis, Wilson is primarily a below the rim player who prefers playing face up and doesn’t have much, if any back to the basket game. He was a good shooter in high school so I think he could develop into a Svi like shooter by the end of his career. I also don’t see him ever developing into a good defender. His footwork is just too slow to guard wings on the perimeter and he’s too much of a finesse guy to deal with physical post players that he’ll have to deal with at times.
Jalen Wilson is a good complimentary piece to have, but if he’s the focal point of the offense like Ellis was his senior season, it’ll be the same result at the end of the year.
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I’m not sure it’s a benefit, it just doesn’t waste a year. If coach is sure he’s going pro before 4 yrs? Silvios was a waste for him, was almost for 2. He only has 1 yr left to play. Pretty sure jalen doesn’t think he’ll be here 4 yrs.
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@DanR Travis
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
My question on Wilson is he even eligible for a traditional redshirt this season or would KU have to apply for a medical redshirt for this season down the line since Wilson played 2 minutes against Duke?
If he’s eligibile for a traditional redshirt, I would be in favor of that because there’s very little about Wilson’s game that makes me think he won’t be a 4 year player.
If Wilson isn’t eligible for a traditional redshirt and would have to go the medical route, I would hold him out until he would still be eligible to obtain a medical redshirt then stash him on the bench as depth.
Of the 3 freshmen this season, Enaruna is still the one I’m highest on long term because of his size, skill, and athleticism and the one with the best chance to leave early.
Braun is playing better than Enaruna at the moment, but he’s also already closer to what his ceiling is so I don’t see him developing significantly more going forward and will be a fan favorite because of his effort. He’s going to replace Garrett as the glue guy that does a lot of little things to make his team better.
Wilson looks like someone who will be in college until he exhausts his eligibility whether that’s after 2022-23 or 2023-24. His game reminds me a lot of Perry Ellis with a little bit of Svi mixed in. Like Ellis, Wilson is primarily a below the rim player who prefers playing face up and doesn’t have much, if any back to the basket game. He was a good shooter in high school so I think he could develop into a Svi like shooter by the end of his career. I also don’t see him ever developing into a good defender. His footwork is just too slow to guard wings on the perimeter and he’s too much of a finesse guy to deal with physical post players that he’ll have to deal with at times.
Jalen Wilson is a good complimentary piece to have, but if he’s the focal point of the offense like Ellis was his senior season, it’ll be the same result at the end of the year.
I believe eligibility for a medical is if he played in less than 1/3 of games due to injury.
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Gosh… receiving a RS should feel like a blessing for all players except the obvious OADs. It’s an opportunity to be in a system for an extra year, just minus game time. Perfect opportunity to level out your school work and then hammer down on your personal development. I’m always amazed to see players who get that year and only show marginal improvements. At KU, every scholarship player has the desire to make a living at basketball one day. You don’t get this time back later. No redo. And though the college experience is a very special time for youth it is something that must largely be sacrificed by those who really want to maximize their career after KU.
I’m still in a bit of shock on Silvio. He almost seems to have gone backwards. I know the pace of our game has picked up and he hasn’t made the adjustment… but a guy like that… with a body and strength like that… Was he just left on his own for a year? Man… if that was me I would have been in dance lessons, developing my footwork and I’d have walked out this past November and performed the most polished spin moves ever to show in AFH. Am I missing something here? Do these kids realize the opportunity in front of them? Not only NBA. Heck… play in Israel for 3 million a year…
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DanR said:
I hate seeing guys sit out at all. Silvio’s involuntary year didn’t seem to do him any good. I’m worried Mitch will regress with an off year.
Who would be the best redshirt success story at KU? Travis Releford? (second year redshirt)
Ben McLemore
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Arguably Landen Lucas. Just because of how much he developed from Year 1 to Year 5.
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BigBad said:
HighEliteMajor said:
I’m puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he’ll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.
When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn’t played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn’t red shirt he is completely wasting a year.
Hmmm. Quite a few times. Agbaji, Grimes, Garrett, Selden, Oubre, Graham, Mason, Wiggins – but you know, kind of a few. It’s happened “EVER.” Agbaji stepped on the court, low ranked freshman, no PT at all, and average over 20 minutes per game last January. Just a recent history lesson.
No one has said that Self will trust him early in conference play. The guy isn’t ready physcially now – which is “early” in conference play.
No one has said to throw him in at 15 min per game. Straw man argument. The idea, I think, would be to let him get his feet wet and ramp up if he deserves the ramp up OR of if we need it.
And you realize that redshirting him is also likely a waste? All it saves us his is his 5th year. If we get his 5th year, there is high risk that he either turns pro before then OR he leaves as a grad transfer.
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@HighEliteMajor well stated and pretty much where I am at with it.
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HighEliteMajor said:
BigBad said:
HighEliteMajor said:
I’m puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he’ll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.
When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn’t played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn’t red shirt he is completely wasting a year.
Hmmm. Quite a few times. Agbaji, Grimes, Garrett, Selden, Oubre, Graham, Mason, Wiggins – but you know, kind of a few. It’s happened “EVER.” Agbaji stepped on the court, low ranked freshman, no PT at all, and average over 20 minutes per game last January. Just a recent history lesson.
No one has said that Self will trust him early in conference play. The guy isn’t ready physcially now – which is “early” in conference play.
No one has said to throw him in at 15 min per game. Straw man argument. The idea, I think, would be to let him get his feet wet and ramp up if he deserves the ramp up OR of if we need it.
And you realize that redshirting him is also likely a waste? All it saves us his is his 5th year. If we get his 5th year, there is high risk that he either turns pro before then OR he leaves as a grad transfer.
Jalen would be a medical redshirt so it’s a bridge to cross if the situation arises. If Wilson is still playing college basketball in 2023-24 (what would be that 5th year) and is a grad transfer, that would mean that he’s majorly underachieved at KU and wouldn’t be looking at many minutes that season anyway at KU and therefore not a big loss to the success of that team.
If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.
