Combine Invites
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Not surprised Grimes was invited. The player everyone saw throughout high school and last year during the FIBA tournament flashed at times during his time at KU, but never showed up consistently. As @BShark said, pedigree matters. Grimes came to KU as a highly skilled player. The combine is to determine if he was simply playing out of position, if something else was wrong, or if he simply doesn’t have the skillset to succeed. But if you go back and watch the tape, what happened to him this past season is difficult to explain.
I see three potential outcomes.
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He goes to the combine and just gets overwhelmed. Doesn’t do well in athletic testing, plays poorly, shoots worse, looks lost on both ends and generally stinks up the joint. We all see that this season wasn’t really a fluke. I think this is the least likely outcome, but I’d say there’s a 20% chance it happens.
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He goes to the combine, does a decent job in the athletic testing, but shoots poorly. His play is unsteady. He flashes some skill at times, but disappears for long stretches at others. Has some moments where he looks like a lottery pick, but just as many where he looks like a G League project. Ultimately convinces a team to take him in the late first round or early second round because they have the infrastructure to get his game right. I’d put a 55% chance on this happening. It’s easily the most likely scenario given his inconsistency at KU.
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Grimes slides over to the point and is a revelation on the ball. Plays downhill, aggressive getting to the rim. Sees the floor well. Surprises people with his explosion and bounce. Basically, looks like the guy we were promised in the mixtapes. Getting on the ball helps his jump shot, which suddenly evens out as he looks like a big, athletic PG that will be a handful. Sews up a spot in the late lottery. This is slightly more likely than him playing very poorly, probably a 25% chance.
So overall, there’s probably an 80% chance Grimes makes it into the draft in some capacity, with a 20% chance that he’s a complete bust (and a chance that he’s a superstar in waiting). There are plenty of teams that missed the playoffs that will take those odds all day long.
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@justanotherfan nailed it
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@justanotherfan I would give option 1 a lot more weight. What if he was a man in high school and a boy in college? I’m talking only as it pertains to the game of basketball, NOT his character. He may just be in over his head until he develops more.
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Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer. With Grimes we simply saw nothing. Color me shocked if that gets turned around in a few months.
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@nuleafjhawk Grimes was a man among boys here in the Houston HS scene. For being as big as Houston is, we really don’t produce a lot of top tier HS basketball talent. Dallas has always been the superior HS basketball city.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@nuleafjhawk Grimes was a man among boys here in the Houston HS scene. For being as big as Houston is, we really don’t produce a lot of top tier HS basketball talent. Dallas has always been the superior HS basketball city.
You said that from the start … it is odd, but he really did appear overmatched. Which would support that theory. He should have stayed for another season or two.
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Did Zion get a G league invite? THAT would be funny!
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@wissox he’s not going
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I lived in Houston for almost 9 years (about 1,000 years ago…) and I noticed the same thing. Four million people to choose from and there’s hardly any D-1 talent that emerges. It’s weird. My brother in law and myself spent so much time in Herman Park, where they had unofficial 3 on 3 tournaments going seemingly around the clock and saw some phenomenal players, but none of them seemed to advance beyond the park league.
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It wasn’t too long ago that I wondered - you guys giving me the answer - about that, after Kelvin Sampson signed the contract extension at Houston. Whether or not the city of Houston had enough basketball talent to sustain the program?
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Well I guess going to KU still gives a kid the exposure to get these chances despite a poor season. If he’s at any other school not named Duke/UK/UNC he’s not invited.
Good luck to the kid. The success rate for these types is extremely low
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nuleafjhawk said:
@justanotherfan I would give option 1 a lot more weight. What if he was a man in high school and a boy in college? I’m talking only as it pertains to the game of basketball, NOT his character. He may just be in over his head until he develops more.
That’s a possibility. However, we saw Grimes play well against some of the better teams we faced last season.
21 points on 7-14 shooting in a win against Michigan State.
19 points on 7-14 shooting in a loss to Iowa State.
15 points on 5-11 shooting in a loss to Auburn.
13 points on 5-9 shooting in a loss to Kentucky.
That’s four of his best games, all against teams that feature very good guards.
Not only that, but it stands out to me that as the season progressed, Grimes’ role wasn’t really ever reduced long term. In 9 of his last 10 games he played more than 25 minutes, and played more than 30 minutes in 7 of those contests. If Self had determined he had better options, Grimes would have gotten the Bragg/Diallo treatment. Yet he logged pretty heavy minutes all season (averaged 27 mpg). That suggests to me that even though he struggled in games, Grimes was consistently one of our best guards in practice, otherwise Self would have flipped his rotation.
That’s why I leaned more towards a middling performance, with a breakout showing slightly more likely than a complete dud. We don’t have evidence that Grimes can’t handle this level. If we did, teams like UK and Michigan State would have forced him off the floor, rather than him playing some of his best basketball against those squads.
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@nuleafjhawk There’s talent here in the city, it’s just not top end HS talent for the most part. The best player to come from this city in the past 5 or so years is DeAaron Fox.
In the 2019 class, only 4 of the top 32 players from Texas are Houston area kids based on 24/7 rankings.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@nuleafjhawk There’s talent here in the city, it’s just not top end HS talent for the most part. The best player to come from this city in the past 5 or so years is DeAaron Fox.
In the 2019 class, only 4 of the top 32 players from Texas are Houston area kids based on 24/7 rankings.
Just did a quick scan of the 2020 Football recruits from Texas, and at least 10 of the top 32 are from the Houston area. Could the popularity of football be keeping elite HS athletes out of basketball in the Houston area?
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@justanotherfan This has always been the issue imo.
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@justanotherfan he showed up in the USA games
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@Crimsonorblue22 Then disappeared in crimson and blue.
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Read off LJW - where they had been doing strengths and weakness of possible NBA with out players talking to NBA scouts. - Now they came to Devon.
kind of surprising. - This scout said they had him somewhere around the range 0f 30-45 - Tait said he had seen one 2020 mock draft had him at # 29. - Here is what the Scout had to say.
Offensive Strengths: the Scouts 1st entry: - one word : -QUICK - good score of the dribble , Really fast 1st step , good finisher at the rim. Has become better shooter.
Defensive strengths. : Super light on feet , – -Understands Angles - - is able to locking down matchup on the ball.
Offensive Weakness : Needs to keep working on his Jumper Take better care of the ball. Gets sped up and at times careless - -Lack of size creates problems
Defensive weakness : Limited to who he can guard because of his size , - - Needs to add Strength - -for the grind of NBA schedule , - -take better care of the ball , - lack of size , - - -Needs to be better with his hands & foul prone -become better finisher when has to finish over bigger taller bodies.
Kind of interesting - -got him ranked a little higher then I thought close to 30 - -hmm hope he doesn’t make a mistake. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Don’t see Grimes on any mock drafts ???
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Blown said:
Don’t see Grimes on any mock drafts ???
The 2nd round is a crapshoot. He’ll make someone’s summer league team and maybe get a G-Leauge contract. It’s a mighty fall.
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Blown said:
Don’t see Grimes on any mock drafts ???
Well I don’t think he will make a roster. - -BUT like I said he DID sign a 3 yr 158 million - -deal with the barber Shop Quartet - we was stated that was the highest paid to anyone in the history of the franchise. - - -so there is a nice little chunk of green for him
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BeddieKU23 said:
Well I guess going to KU still gives a kid the exposure to get these chances despite a poor season. If he’s at any other school not named Duke/UK/UNC he’s not invited.
Good luck to the kid. The success rate for these types is extremely low
Even though KU players have had mixed results in the league, it is well reported that most NBA teams count KU on a resume as being a very positive thing. What they see as paramount is “defensive fundamentals.”
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Grimes’ future depends on what he does at the combine. Play well, and he’s a first rounder. Play poorly, he is hoping to catch on with a summer league team.
Dotson will probably be back at KU. He’s still just a bit too small. I could see him being banged up even as a rookie backup from the size and contact he would have to take.
Dedric is probably a second rounder that makes someone’s roster as a small ball 5. I could see him having success sliding up to the 5 because he’s so efficient and is a reliable rebounder even without elite athleticism. He’s still not going to be great defensively, but playing the 5 (and adding some strength) could help him translate that into a career. With the direction the NBA is heading, a 6-9 5 man that can rebound, handle the ball, shoot from the perimeter and pass effectively is a nice weapon. He won’t be a star, but he’s a nice piece to have stashed on your bench.
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@jayballer73 isn’t it 158$ not 158 million?
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@BeddieKU23 not a good look for self to take a “lottery pick” and “coach” him out of the second round. Easy negative recruitment tactic.
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Blown said:
@jayballer73 isn’t it 158$ not 158 million?
no article said 3 year 158 million - - OH CRAP wait a minute - -went back an re-read - - your right I apologize just some bogus funny story - - -dam I’m getting old - -got the ol wool pulled over my bad eye lol - - was talking about playing 4-5 and being able to be Baritone and all that - - my bad lol – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Blown said:
@BeddieKU23 not a good look for self to take a “lottery pick” and “coach” him out of the second round. Easy negative recruitment tactic.
There will always be guys like Grimes that underachieve at KU and other schools. Devon Dotson’s success as a freshman makes it a wash. Its up the player in the end
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https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1128848456863375360?s=21
Anyone remember seeing that last year?!? WTF
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Grimes combine measurements are not great
6’4" barefoot, 6’5.25 in shoes, 8’4.5" standing reach, 6’7.75" wingspan, 209.6 pounds, 8.4% body fat
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BShark said:
Grimes combine measurements are not great
6’4" barefoot, 6’5.25 in shoes, 8’4.5" standing reach, 6’7.75" wingspan, 209.6 pounds, 8.4% body fat
He measures out as a PG moreso that a SG. His reach is average for his size, but he would struggle against bigger wing players.
The only number that is troubling is that body fat. You would like to see that down closer to 6%.
The bigger measurements are going to be his vertical and strength measurements.
Grimes’ standing reach is equal to Jarrett Culver.
Also, Bol Bol’s standing reach is a ridiculous 9’7.75" Tacko Fall’s is 10’2.25". Jay Bilas is hyperventilating somewhere.
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@justanotherfan He was 180 pounds pre-KU, kind of troubling.
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@BShark 30 lbs more.
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@Woodrow ya just looks different when he’s guarded. And trying to fit into offensive scheme.
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Grimes is playing now
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justanotherfan said:
Grimes’ future depends on what he does at the combine. Play well, and he’s a first rounder. Play poorly, he is hoping to catch on with a summer league team.
Dotson will probably be back at KU. He’s still just a bit too small. I could see him being banged up even as a rookie backup from the size and contact he would have to take.
Dedric is probably a second rounder that makes someone’s roster as a small ball 5. I could see him having success sliding up to the 5 because he’s so efficient and is a reliable rebounder even without elite athleticism. He’s still not going to be great defensively, but playing the 5 (and adding some strength) could help him translate that into a career. With the direction the NBA is heading, a 6-9 5 man that can rebound, handle the ball, shoot from the perimeter and pass effectively is a nice weapon. He won’t be a star, but he’s a nice piece to have stashed on your bench.
I think that Grimes, at this point, will be best served to play overseas.
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So far in his game, Grimes is 3-6, including 1-3 from 3PT, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover. 7 points in the first half.
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@justanotherfan are you watching? I can’t tell much, not showing much of game.
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2 rebounds? Wow, that’s more rebounds than he got in almost one-third of our games.
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@justanotherfan thx! Better than what I saw. Like to just watch the game instead of the interviews
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Grimes finished with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals and 2 turnovers.
Without having seen the actual game, I can’t put that performance into any real context.
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Dotson was one of the few players at the combine that didnt hire an agent. Bodes well for him returning you would think
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Bilas seems to think he did good
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Other notes from physical testing:
Dotson has the fastest lane shuttle so far (2.8 seconds). His standing vertical and max vert (30 and 38.5 inches) are very solid for a guy his size.
Grimes did not do well in the leaping department. A disappointing 27.5 in the standing vert, and just 36 in the max. Grimes has not run yet.
No one has bench press numbers yet.
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D dot doing well in game
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Bobby Marks was just on TV saying Q may have potentially raised his stock saying Grimes 19 minutes in game 1 were better then his 6 months in Lawrence.
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JEFF GOODMAN@GOODMANHOOPS 10M KANSAS QUENTIN GRIMES SAID HE IS STILL KEEPING HIS OPTIONS OPEN AND IS UNDECIDED WHETHER TO RETURN TO LAWRENCE OR REMAIN IN THE NBA DRAFT,
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JAYHAWKFAN214 said:
JEFF GOODMAN@GOODMANHOOPS 10M KANSAS QUENTIN GRIMES SAID HE IS STILL KEEPING HIS OPTIONS OPEN AND IS UNDECIDED WHETHER TO RETURN TO LAWRENCE OR REMAIN IN THE NBA DRAFT,
It would be good to take him back if R.J. bolts overseas.
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@BeddieKU23 puzzled me, didn’t see anything to great!
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You think he’s keeping up w/his classes?
